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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Discussions About Orson Scott Card » *SPOILER* Regarding End of Shadow of the Giant (Page 1)

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Author Topic: *SPOILER* Regarding End of Shadow of the Giant
Siddharth
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Petra marries Peter? and has 5 kids with him? i dont generally curse, but seriously, what the ****? plus its just weird to think of peter wanting petra even only a year after bean left. i liked them better when bean was married to petra and peter was just peter. [Cry]

[Edited to make spoiler avoidable. --PJ]

[ February 17, 2006, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: Papa Janitor ]

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Siddharth
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i was reading over my post again, and i just wanted to say, no offense, orson scott card, i think ur books are great. but why did you pick this ending? did u consider any alternatives, and if so, what made this one better than the other options?

anyone else have any ideas?? or, did u like the ending, and why/(not)?

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Bella Bee
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The trick to *spoiler*-ing something, is to give people a chance not to see it if they don't want to. At the moment it's almost impossible to not to do so. I'd change your thread title unless you want some people to be rather upset with you.
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aarand
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Hear hear. Thanks a lot for the big warning.

*SPOILER* That sucked.

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kitmarlowescot2
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Well that was very Roman of Mr Scott to do, wives would often take femine form names of their husbands.
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Uprooted
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I emailed Siddharth to ask him to change the title in case he hasn't been back to Hatrack since we posted. I haven't read that far myself, so it was a pretty big spoiler for me.
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neo-dragon
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Hey, don't go knocking the ending. A lot of us really liked that little development.


*ANOTHER SPOILER*

Between that, and getting to read about the Wiggin brothers' final conversations from Peter's perspective, I think that SotG probably had the second best final chapter of all the Ender/Bean books (second to Ender's Game). At least, that's my opinion.

*END SPOILER*


I feel sorry for those of you who were spoiled though. Part of what made the ending so good for me was not seeing it coming.

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ReddwarfVII
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Actually, I did see it coming. I saw it coming from Shadow of the Hedgemon. I was actually more surprized that she married Bean first.
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Mark
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I think the marriage completed Peter's character. Finally, this guy's interrested in something besides power. It definately came as a shock to me though.

*ANOTHER SPOILER*

The best part of the ending though was the conversation with Ender. "If he can speak for the buggers, surely he can speak for me." I loved it!

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neo-dragon
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quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
Actually, I did see it coming. I saw it coming from Shadow of the Hedgemon. I was actually more surprized that she married Bean first.

Wow, that's some great foresight. I'm not sure that Peter and Petra even interacted in SotH. She was a prisoner for almost the entire novel, and when she got free she was all over Bean, so I'm not sure what you based the prediction on.
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Advent 115
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I loved that ending. Why does it disapoint you? I mean everyone is happy, all of Earth is under one lawful and kind government. So what do you see as so bad about both Peter and Petra being happy together? [Confused]
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MOL 3Earth
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i personally loved that ending. i am really glad card decided to give peter a family instead of dying as a lonely hegemon. but as for suprise factor almost every meeting between peter and petra, in SoTG, was foreshadowy to me. but maybe i wanted it to happen once i knew bean wouldnt be coming back.
and yea the peter-ender talk was awesome. i dont know how card pulls this stuff off.

but i would like to know if card is going to somehow link bean and his children with the end of the ender series. because i was thinking they could land on lithuania(sp?) and there 'defects' could be changed? anyone else see the link here?

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xxsockeh
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I hated that ending. Not that it was badly written, but I love Bean. To read about Petra loving someone else was terrifying. [Frown] And I personally have an extreme dislike for Peter, that didn't help matters.
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Roseauthor
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I loved the ending-primarily because the undemonizing of Peter was a gradual and perhaps difficult write while still making it believable.

And what about the missing son? Did I miss something? Or are we going to have to wait for more answers again..

This is starting to become a major soap opera. [Smile]

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CRash
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*Spoilerish info*

Yet again: There's supposed to be two direct sequels to SotG. One will be a book concerning Achilles II, a.k.a. Randall Firth, a.k.a. lost Bean baby, and his supposed encounter with Ender who has begun his interplanetary wanderings.

The other is a linker book concerning the Bean crew that was zooming off into the unknown on a spaceship, and their interactions with as-yet undisclosed people in a post-CotM setting, connecting the Shadow series to the Speaker trilogy.

Go ahead and search the forum for more threads concerning the books--I know there've been a few of them.

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Jon Paul Mosher
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I just want to say that I think this ending was freakin' awesome that last thirty pages I was crying like a 5 year old. go ahead call me a wuss
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Geekazoid99
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NAW your not a wuss Mosher i just finished rereading the book last night and i also cried like a baby after finishing That is how i know its one of my favorite. The ending to Shadow of the Giant is my favorite of all time.
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Jon Paul Mosher
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Agreed,

And wow you guessed what everyone calls me at school, ill give you a hint its not my first name.

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Joshua Newberry
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I have cried at the end of three Card novels so far: Shadow of the Giant, Lost Boys, and Songmaster.

Amazingly emotional ends, all of them. Wonderful books.

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ReddwarfVII
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quote:
Originally posted by neo-dragon:
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
Actually, I did see it coming. I saw it coming from Shadow of the Hedgemon. I was actually more surprized that she married Bean first.

Wow, that's some great foresight. I'm not sure that Peter and Petra even interacted in SotH. She was a prisoner for almost the entire novel, and when she got free she was all over Bean, so I'm not sure what you based the prediction on.
My assumption was made on what I knew of Peter's character. I agree with a previous poster that marriage completed his character. Feeling that from the beginning, of all the female characters that were available, to me it just made sense that he would end up with Petra. I would point to the fact that she was a very strong woman. Strong in they you would think when you think of spouses of great individuals. Peter would need a woman like Petra to keep him grounded. And she would too.

The reason I say that I surprised that she ended up with Bean first was that I just pictured her with Peter more. But of course, reading the story, it makes much more sense that she would naturally fall in love with Bean.

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ReddwarfVII
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Kind of like how Harry is really supposed to marry Hermione, but she falls in love with Ron first. Then he dies in some tragic accident and she ends up married to Harry anyways. [ROFL] [ROFL]
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Advent 115
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Hmmm, I keep hoping Ron will end up dead....

Harry earned Hermione after all his heroic deeds, (not some red haired loser).

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ReddwarfVII
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Well only if Hermione actually looks like Emma Watson. She is a cutie! (I can't say that she is hot yet because she's not even 18 yet and that would be just creepy) [No No]
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Jon Paul Mosher
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No offense but I think that ron and harry are both kind of losers. the 5th book ruined it for me. but if malfoy got with hermione....(:
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ReddwarfVII
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WHAT!!!! MALFOY!!! ARE YOU NUTS!!!!
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Advent 115
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I agree! Anyways, he is a traitorus looser. And I hope Harry has to kill him and Snape.

I friggin hate Snape. [Evil Laugh]

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neo-dragon
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Hate Snape?!


*HALF-BLOOD PRINCE SPOILERS*

Your're not one of those poor naive people who didn't catch on that he's not evil and he and Dumbledore planned the whole thing and that Snape only participated reluctantly, are you? The poor man is a double-agent who's hated by his own allies and risks beings discovered and killed by Voldemort every day! He's a hero! I can't wait until everyone realizes it.

*END SPOILERS*


Hey, when did this become a Harry Potter thread?

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Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged
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anywho...back on topic. *Spoilers*


I can honestly say I always thought Peter and Petra would marry, the whole Bean thing caught me completely off guard. One theme that ran though the entire series was Peter's mom constantly reminding him who so many rulers died unhappy and alone. I'll say it...I cried when I got to that last chapter. Here's a character who was broken, who's brother was walking proof he wasn't good enough. And in the end he was whole. It is everything I ever wanted for him. And I was so afraid he would end up alone. Because in the end all o the power in the world means nothing.

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0range7Penguin
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I think Petra ending up with Peter was a great ending that really tied up the series in a lot of ways.

And as to Harry Potter geez can't you see that Hermoine is going to end up with Neville? [Evil Laugh]

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Peter_The_Great
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First I want to say longtime reader of OSC and hatrack, first time poster.
Peter has always been my favorite character. The line in Children of the mind sums him up perfectly "terrifying magnificent peter" or something along those lines. The way OSC has brought out peter's character is wonderfull, and from the moment I knew bean would leave I had a feeling it would be peter petra would end up with. It really is a great ending, however it does not tie up the series, only peter's life. We still have bean and the new peter to think of and I can't wait untill the book that brings them together comes out [Smile]

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Jeesh
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Peter and Petra? I guess I could see them, but I never read anything that hinted about Peter liking Petra.

For the Harry Potter posts: I'm telling you Hermoine an Ron, Harry and probably Cho... if he isn't killed by Voldemort.

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Jeesh
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Hermoine and** Ron
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dantesparadigm
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeesh:
Hermoine and** Ron

You can edit or delete your post by clicking on the pencil and paper icon above your post instead of posting a correction.
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Advent 115
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In answer to Potter q & A's: Hello! Like Harry won't survive the final battle against Voldemort. [Roll Eyes]
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ReddwarfVII
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Sorry for all the Potter comments! My fault! I will take my 40 lashings quietly and in the future keep my off topic rantings to myself. [Frown] [Wink] [Evil]
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SiriusSky
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O.K. first off, Hermione and Ron, there's no way Harry and Hermione could ever be together it'd be way to weird. {Exit: Harry Potter Topic}

Now on to the important thing: That ending in SotG was amazing, I've never cried at a movie or a book before but the last page or so I was bawling, and for the rest of that day, no what am I saying, for the rest of the week I was so emotionally choked up and moody, I thought it would last forever.

Yeah, I pretty much saw the Peter & Petra thing coming the whole time. I mean come on, the way she would get in his face about whatever stupid thing he did at the moment, he absolutely lapped it up. I have to admitt that Petra with Bean really caught me off guard, as well. But I'm not entirely certain that I like the pairing of Peter & Petra. I'm so unbelieveably happy for him, don't get me wrong, I just sort of expected a new character to come along and light a fire under him, but I'm not complaining.

I Love the character of Peter, even "Ender's 'Peter'", even before he becomes part Ender (in CotM), I know he was quite the SOB, but still. I always knew Peter wouldn't end up alone but I just wish I didn't have to wait so long and I wish it had happened with a bit more passion, but that would have been kinda strange considering it is Petra.

Does anyone else feel that Petra went kinda soft though, in SotH? I hear her descibed as a really strong woman, which she was, but her choices seemed, to me at least, to not have come from her head. And because of that it makes me feel that Peter wouldn't have been so inclined to Petra, but I'm just pontificating, so don't take me too seriously.

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kitmarlowescot2
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I take it then that Bean will never again meet Ender, but might meet Peter, Ender's son. Or that the children of Bean might meet Peter. And help him rule the 100 worlds. Oh if only Peter the brother had told Ender about Bean, then on Lusitania they would have had a cure immediately for him, by Jean just blinking. Ender never really knew how brillant or how much Bean had helped him. So part of Jean is also Bean, or least in his way of thinking.
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Audioonly
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What happened to the 9th? What happen to the woman carrying the 9th?

I accidently listened to Shadow of
the Giant before Shadow Puppets. Did I miss a lot and should I go back?

I have to admit that I have been listening to this seriously only on audio tape format....not enough time, but it has proved to be a wonderful experience.

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kitmarlowescot2
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The ninth was born and raised by a woman who thinks the child is Achilles's child and is being taken on a colony planet.
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SiriusSky
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quote:
Originally posted by kitmarlowescot2:
So part of Jean is also Bean, or least in his way of thinking.

I take it that you mean Jane, sorry if I'm wrong. But what do you mean by that?
And when you say Peter, Ender's son, you mean the one that came out of the space/time journey thing w/ a new Val as well, right?

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SiriusSky
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Audioonly, I think you do need to go back and read Shadow Puppets. I actually liked it better than Giant, but i could be melting Hegemon and puppets together in my memory. Either way it's well worth the read. But those audios can get to be a pretty penny too so you may not want to get it, it's up to you.
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Peter_The_Great
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Yeah, Peter is refered to as enders bastard son in CotM. Also, I think he means that jane grew out of the mind game, so it is also part of bean in jane, the part that anylyzed him. However, I don't think it is in any way close to the way ender is part of jane because the hivequeen never sumoned anyone to defeat bean. Then again, perhaps the hivequeen tried to suck in bean as well, we don't know because CotM was written before enders shadow, so bean wasn't the backup yet
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kitmarlowescot2
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Oy, brain freeze, yes meant Jane. I would say in the way Jane thinks she probably got that from antyzling stuff about Bean. It gave her the first experince she ever had with that. And turning her into a fiancial program is Bean's idea too. So bean is at least a uncle to her. For some reason my brain wanted to call her Jean and not Jane.
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SiriusSky
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Sorry about that, it's been a while since I've read the books, guess I forgot some important details.
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Pinky
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quote:
Originally posted by Advent 115:
In answer to Potter q & A's: Hello! Like Harry won't survive the final battle against Voldemort. [Roll Eyes]

Jup. Never. It would transform Harry to a kind of Frodo! And what about Ginny? I think it's pretty tawdry that he dumped her. As if he were Superman who doesn't dare to reveal his identity to Lois because she'd be in danger. Ts! It was much too late to try to keep Ginny safe. Snape&Co already knew, that she means much to him.

Uhmm... sorry, what's this thread about again?

Oh, yes. I love the end of SOTG! Especially the part when Petra notices, that the "I love you" at the beginning of the letter was Peter's... *sigh*
And the part when he talks to Ender.
Peter's a perfect match for Petra, now, that he's finally a MAN, and not an envious boy anymore. Who else? I wouldn't want Petra or Peter to be alone. I only wished OSC had written a little bit more about the time between Bean's letter and Peter's death. Only the beginning of their life after Bean. To skip 50years seemed a little abrupt to me.

I'm looking forward to the next books. (I wonder whether two books are enough... maybe, Bean and his children will be able to 'repair' their genes with the help of Jane? Another series: Children of the Shadow!)

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Pinky
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quote:
Then again, perhaps the hivequeen tried to suck in bean as well, we don't know because CotM was written before enders shadow, so bean wasn't the backup yet
Ender was her first attempt, wasn't it? She does not mention any other attempts. She had not a lot of time and energy to spare when she tried to twine with Ender. She only succeeded because of Ender's vulnerabilty in this time and his empathy. And in contrast to Ender, Bean played the Fantasy Game only once in the common room.

Or do you mean the 16year old Bean? Maybe he learns telepathy because of his growing brain and is able to chat with the new Hive Queens? And they need his help because...? No, he'll meet Ender Val and Peter and they fight against the Descolada planet!

[ March 23, 2006, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: Pinky ]

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Cheli
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Personally, perhaps I lack the foresight skills some of you seem to have, but I thought it was rather neat and nice how a lot of the main characters end up falling in love, getting married, and having kids.

*SPOILERS*

When I read Ender's Game, I honestly didn't think he was the type that would ever get married, and that didn't change even during his marriage with Novinha.

The same went with Novinha herself, Bean, Petra, and Peter. Even Alai (though his situation was different). The one I could have predicted was Valentine's - she seemed like the type that would have that sort of ending.

Maybe it's because I was most influenced by Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow, both of which (in my opinion) show them, as kids, growing up as soldiers: trained to fight and kill, to survive.

Bean and Petra's relationship during the Shadow series was possibly my most disliked plot occurance; it just never felt realistic enough to me compared to things like Bean's calculations and ability to survive, or Ender's hate of war. Their relationship made up a major part of the rest of the series, so I got used to it.

Yet - maybe due to my reading speed - I felt the characters changed too suddenly. Bean, from soldier to romantic. Novinha, from a broken and bitter woman to a loving and caring one. Petra, from a brilliant and determined soldier to a crying and loving woman.

Ender still seemed like Ender in essence through it all, but a different Ender; it's hard to explain - I believe he's the one who changed the most realistically. In the end, I can still see some of the early Ender in him: the wisdom, the helplessness, the guilt.

This is my interpretation of it all. It does make me think I should re-read the entire series again slower. (It's slightly less fun since you know what happens though - when I read SftD again, I thought "oh, that's ok, they end up getting married in the end.")

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Alon
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^to the above poster^ you gotta remember that bean had to grow up extremely fast and he seemed to be hitting puberty which well im guessing u know what happens petra who was a soldier and brilliant and strong was still strong and brilliant anyways and she loved bean apparantly and since bean wasnt going to be around forever she had to do something now rather then later


Iv always imagined peter hookin up with someone at the end of the series but i didnt even begin to think of petra... i think it was a nice ending as peter turned out to be a mostly nice person in the end and he had also loved her and beans children which brought them closer...

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Katarain
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I finally finished Shadow of the Giant. Wow. I loved it. And I cried, too. I must say that I knew that Peter and Petra would get married--it seemed natural to me. (Although it's possible that I was spoiled by the original title of this thread and tried to put it out of my memory.)

It seems to me that the Shadow series was just as much Peter's story as Bean's.

I think one of my favorite parts was when Peter's parents tell him that they're proud of him and that he had become a great man that day. And of course the Peter/Ender scene was great.

Just amazing. I'm glad OSC didn't end the story any other way.

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Jimbo the Clown
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Personally, I loved SotG. Ending and all. Then again, I've always liked Peter best of all.

As for the Harry Potter ramblement, it's obvious what's going to happen. Dumbledore will come back as a ghost (like in Star Wars) and marry Hermione. She always liked knowledgable guys.

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