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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Discussions About Orson Scott Card » DABEL BROTHERS/MARVEL GIVE MORE DETAILS ON OSC'S ENDER'S GAME STORY

   
Author Topic: DABEL BROTHERS/MARVEL GIVE MORE DETAILS ON OSC'S ENDER'S GAME STORY
Les Dabel
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Go check it out and please post what you think.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=104777


Thanks.


Les D
www.dabelbrothers.com

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Noemon
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Sounds like an interesting story.

I'm confused about one bit in your blurb, though. When Ernst Dabel says
quote:
Part of the reason the Enderverse stories are so beloved is because they offer more than just great science fiction
what does he mean? What does he think that science fiction is, that he thinks that the story offers more than that? He goes on to say
quote:
Orson Scott Card has used books like Ender’s Game and Speaker for the Dead as a platform to explore some fascinating concepts, and ‘Gold Bug’ is very much in the spirit of offering a fresh new perspective on the evolution of an unnatural sort of creature that is quite useful as a tool, but unable to survive on its own when it’s abandoned by its masters
Am I reading him correctly as saying that this story goes beyond science fiction in that it explores the idea of animals bred (or engineered, or whathaveyou) to so specialized a purpose that they are incapable of survival without the help of the species that created them? If so, what about that makes it something that is "beyond science fiction"?
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Scott R
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Does this mean we get to learn more about rogue drones (mentioned, I think, in Xenocide)?

That would be neat.

"...more than just great science fiction..." I think is a key phrase to mean, "There's actual CHARACTERIZATION in this story." [Smile]

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Noemon
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That's usually the way it's meant. Yay for pointlessly insulting an entire genre of fiction!
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Scott R
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Hmm... Going back and reading the article, I don't know, Noemon. I *think* Ernst was going for, "This story has things in it, wild things, even for science fiction! Even for the Enderverse! It's a fresh look on what being a Bugger might mean!"

Far be it from me to put words in the man's mouth...

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Noemon
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It's probably just that I'm a little twitchy about the way the phrase is usually used.
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Scott R
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Me too.
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Abyss
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Historically, and even in large part presently, science fiction has been the real of the shallow space opera. Orson Scott Card is one of the shining examples of authors who write in the genre and include real characters and interesting, original subject matter. But he's certainly not an example of a typical science fiction writer -- on the contrary, to say that his work in general and Ender's Game in particular "go beyond" science fiction is quite accurate.

The people on this particular site have generally had the good fortune to read good science fiction. This doesn't mean that the genre as a whole hasn't remained the domain of campy, trite, pulpy cheese-writing.

-Abyss

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JakeBlack
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They showed this book as part of the Dabels' appearance on BET's "Hotwyred" show tonight. Exciting exposure!
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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
to say that his work in general and Ender's Game in particular "go beyond" science fiction is quite accurate.
No, it's not an accurate statement.

It's an understandable statement for someone who is ignorant of what's been written in the genre, but it is not accurate.

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Libbie
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quote:
If so, what about that makes it something that is "beyond science fiction"?
Heh heh! I guess because there aren't any robots or Martians.
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Noemon
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Ever hear of Sturgeon's Law, Abyss?

While it's true that Card's fiction is quite good, it's quite good by any measure, not just relative to other works of SF. Happily, the genre is large enough that there is no shortage of really gifted writers working within it. I have no interest in reading the Kevin J. Andersons, Piers Anthonys, and L. Ron Hubbards of the genre; if that's all that there was within the speculative fiction genre I wouldn't be reading it, period. But it's not. Card, Butler, McHugh, LeGuin, Dan Simmons, William Sanders, Tad Williams, de Lint, Guy Gavriel Kay, Kim Stanley Robinson, Spider Robinson, George R. R. Martin, Sturgeon, Dick, Ellison, Vonnegut, Peter Watts, Kress, C. L. Moore, Bisson, Pat Murphy, Waldrop, Brin, Cordwainer Smith, James Tiptree Jr...that's just off the top of my head; the list goes on and on. Card's writing is certainly "beyond crap science fiction", but he's he's hardly a lone figure in his production of quality work within the genre.

[ March 13, 2007, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Noemon ]

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Scott R
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...also, speaking of quality, there's nothing wrong with pulp or camp, as long as they're done right.
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Noemon
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This is true.

[Edit--but I'm probably only agreeing with you because you're part of my clique.]

[ March 13, 2007, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]

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Scott R
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Awesome!

Do we have any pledges to haze yet? I'ma get my haze on!

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rivka
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*puffs smoke at ScottR*
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stihl1
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You people kill me. Like it or not, the fact is many people see science fiction as stories about space ships and aliens and robots, etc. I have read a lot of science fiction in my life, and frankly that opinion is mostly correct. OSC writes great stories, dramatic, funny, sad stories about very developed characters, that just happens to be set in a science fiction world. OSC himself has written that good science fiction should be written so that it could be just good fiction without the scifi aspect. It is not insulting to say that the stories OSC writes offer more than just science fiction. A little short sighted, a little bit of underestimating what the great writers of the genre do, yes. But not insulting when you take the average story in the genre.
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Scott R
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quote:
You people kill me.
Sounds like a plan. [Smile]

quote:
the fact is many people see science fiction as stories about space ships and aliens and robots, etc. I have read a lot of science fiction in my life, and frankly that opinion is mostly correct.
Well-- content isn't necessarily what we were contending about, but the idea that content dictates quality.

In other words, a story with space ships can be as deeply moving, as important to literature, as effective, as a story with a depressed poet in New York. [Smile]

Do you think that the fare that SF&F writers are generating is as well composed as that generated by non-genre writers?

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stihl1
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I honestly don't know, I don't often read non scifi fiction. And while I would agree content doesn't dictate quality, I've read a lot of one dimensional spaceships and aliens stories. One of the things I find most refreshing about OSC's stories is the depth of the stories and attention to plot, characters, drama, etc. I think it's probably rare you find an author that can do that with any fiction, let alone sci fi. But in this case, the subject that was beign described was a science fiction story. It was obviously meant as a compliment, not as a rip on the genre of science fiction.

And let's be honest, to the average joe that doesn't get into science fiction, the common misconception is that the stories are about spaceships and aliens and technobabble like a bad star trek episode.

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Scott R
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Misconception is the key word. That's what Noemon and I are concerned about.

quote:
It was obviously meant as a compliment, not as a rip on the genre of science fiction.
It was meant as a compliment. We agree.

However, the idea that powerful storytelling is remarkable within the SF&F genre is a little insulting (at least to those of us who are writing in the genre). OSC isn't unique, as Noemon pointed out; the genre is filled with effective, important voices.

Now, Ernst Dabel may have meant something completely different. I hope he did; I posted what I think he was actually saying. If not, it would seem a very ill-considered statement; the man, after all, is marketing this comic book to science-fiction fans.

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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
scifi fiction
*twitch*

quote:
That's what Noemon and I are concerned about.
Hey!
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Scott R
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Wait-- are you in the clique? I don't have my roster.
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Noemon
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[whisper]Dude, he's got the secret mark! You don't need the roster to identify him[/whisper]

I do think that Scott's read on what Dabel meant is likely correct, by the way.

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stihl1
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:


However, the idea that powerful storytelling is remarkable within the SF&F genre is a little insulting (at least to those of us who are writing in the genre). OSC isn't unique, as Noemon pointed out; the genre is filled with effective, important voices.

I would disagree. "Filled", no. There are some writers like you say, but the genre is far from filled with powerful storytelling.

And that is meant with no indictment on you or anyone else.

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