quote: Q: Are WWASPS Schools accredited? A: We work closely with the Northwest Association of Schools and Colleges to insure that all academic requirements are being met for our High School Programs. For new schools, there may be a short period in the beginning that operate under an application for accreditation to prepare for a required initial site visit. Q: Do you have certified teachers? A: Yes, the teachers are certified by the state or country where the school is located.
When I first read the accreditation answer, I thought they said "yes, we are accredited, by NASC. So I checked NASC homepage, and discoverd that no, they are not. Then I reread the answer and tipped my hat to the cunning, evasive jerks. They imply that they have accreditation, but never come out and say they do .Sheeesh. For the second answer, the original story on this thread says that none of they "teachers" need have any teaching training, much less any formal certifacation. Parents are really being taken for a ride here, note that WWasp contracts forbid suing for false advertisments...a clause I'd never heard of before in a contract but I'm beginning to see why wwasp needs it... Peace, Morbo
posted
Morbo, please use the quote box only for what is actually being quoted. Like this:
From wwasp FAQ web page:
quote: Q: Are WWASPS Schools accredited? A: We work closely with the Northwest Association of Schools and Colleges to insure that all academic requirements are being met for our High School Programs. For new schools, there may be a short period in the beginning that operate under an application for accreditation to prepare for a required initial site visit. Q: Do you have certified teachers? A: Yes, the teachers are certified by the state or country where the school is located.
The way you’ve been doing it, I keep thinking the source of the quote is part of the quote.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Makes sense. More readable that way. I'll try to catch up on links. The best quote so far is from the current WWASP President.He really slams into his own organization when he was on the outside briefly. My guess would be he lost a power struggle temporarily and negative comments were a way to play hard-ball and regain control. Thers are at least 5 interlocked groups:wwasp,Teen health,Teens-in-Crisis and 1 more. (Note the domain names to suck in parents. This was very sickening:named after a troubled dead 16-year-old, the C.S. Landre foundation which claimed to be independant and non-profit but only recomended wwasp schools. So even if you die they can still use you in propaganda! All of these organizations round-robin recomendations for each other, like a circle of back-slappers.
posted
http://mountainparkhorrors.netfirms.com/Bethal.htm A Missisippi jail/school weird brouhaha when court order to cease-and desist is served by 30+ cops...from Supreme Court of Missisipi which denied the appeal of a school employee...more readable than most court documents, it tells a good story.
Then, a kid that was in WWASP Samoan camp and others refused to give in ... but it cost him.
quote:Paul Richards, Teen Help/WWASP victim shortly before he got out: They attempted to break me," Paul said. "So that I would realize how important my parents were to me."
He said the facilitators tried to make him read motivational books they thought he would hate.
"So I would write book reports using words they could not understand. They became very annoyed. ... They attempted to put me on what they nicknamed 'poltergeist.' And I sat on a chair and stared at a wall, a TV, a microwave, with approximately a foot between the chair and the wall, all day long, for days on end. I was below Level 1. I was on Level Zero, probation, as they put it.
They never broke this very cool kid, and he left on his 18th birthday after two years in programs... I salute him! But his parents won't take him back home or help with college unless he goes back in... He lives with neighbors that were apalled to see him rousted out of his home at 3AM by 3 big dudes. Paul Richards story from denver.rockymountainnews.com, which has done extensive research and stories.
posted
I'm amazed by the shock this story has elicited. Those of us familiar with disability issues have known for a long time that human rights are regularly stomped on by parents and professionals using some form of abuse and calling it treatment.
One of the most notorious institutions in the U.S. operates facilities in Massachussetts and Rhode Island. "Students" there not only are subjected to spanks, pepper sprays, and electric shocks - they're put on "specialized food plans" - in which every bite of food they get is contingent on performing a desired behavior. The plan allows for "students" to be fed as little as 300 calories per day. The ACLU doesn't care. Amnesty International doesn't care. It's just disabled kids getting treatment and they don't want to get involved with that.
Here's a link to a particularly disturbing death that occurred under the auspices of this organization: The Death of Linda Cornelison.
I've pretty much lost my capacity for shock. But my capacity for anger and outrage, I'm proud to report, still seem to be intact.
Posts: 4344 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Holy Mother of God, that poor girl was starved and tortured to death in a care facility...
Same link as above, testimony at an open hearing in the Massachusett State House
quote: BRI Director Matthew Israel, PhD, defended his program by citing the Autism Society of America (ASA) position statement ...[and] insisted that aversives constitute effective "therapy." However, he was forced to admit that 5,300 electroshocks in one day did not work for one BRI client.
This chucklehead admits this under oath and he's still in charge of anything?
Well sndrake, it appears every time a rock is turned over more slugs come out. I feel sick.
posted
Bah. This makes me immensely angry. I just wanted to state my support for those who feel that something needs to be done. And to the individual - yep, that's you, filetted - moaning about people actually caring (rather than just making snide, rude and incoherent remarks) about what happens in the world, and especially to children... Well, yeah. Please stop feeling that your primary role is to put down and ridicule and attention-grab. If you have a complaint, please try and put it in something reasonably a coherent form.
Rakeesh, I agree with everything you've said.
Posts: 2945 | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
EG to be fair, flish was mainly talking about the extreme , violent rhetoric flying about (including from yours truly), not that people cared or not.
Any thoughts on legal tactics to go after these groups? (i mean any tactic that's not illegal)
posted
Actually, I disagree. I think filetted was in fact implicitly attacking people's feelings on the matter.
It was blatantly obvious that the rhetoric was largely hyperbole. If he can't see straight away then he needs to take a breath or two before hitting "Post Reply", madly typing a third of a sentence and then clicking "Submit".
That's all I have to say on the matter.
Posts: 2945 | Registered: Apr 2000
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I split up my posts because I realized I was trying (and likely failing) to ask a coherent question about the nature of people's reactions rather than the topic itself.
"on an internet forum". This was vague, yes. I was thinking that given that one link and the fictional nature of most posters names, that the idea of getting so frothed up seems ludicrous. Yes, maybe I should have interpretted this as hyperbole. But given the length of the thread and the non-game aspect, that's a hard conclusion for me to reach.
None of my posts have anything to do with the way I feel about what might be going on in tranquility bay. I was trying to make a point about collective self-reflection. i.e. "hey folks, we're all getting ourselves worked up into a hysterical state. that should send up warning flags. how about we all calm down and make sure we know what we're talking about?"
I don't understand your post about being critical and offensive. I may have been, inadvertantly. I apologize for whatever personal criticisms you read.
flish
PS. If the article and phenomenon is true, it's sickening. More so if this american is involved as that suggests someone using his inflated influence to create his own self-indulgent twisted shop of horrors.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote: "hey folks, we're all getting ourselves worked up into a hysterical state. that should send up warning flags
Yes. I went ballistic immeaditely and obsessed about it. I had to back off, calm down, and regain perspective. Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Not related to this story, I've had some personal experience with going ballistic on newspaper reportings that turned out to be 100% fictional fabrications by would-be journalists... to which older wiser members of my social circle responded to my fury with "Wait? so what you're telling me is that you can't believe everything you read?" *mentor turns back to his work at hand*
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
A similar article about the sister school in Costa Rica was in either Time or Newsweek last month. (Sorry I don't remember which one. I read it at the doctor's office.) Does that add credibility?
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote: I'm the only one on this thread who has said anything about nuclear weapons.
And I about broadswords. Mmm broadswords.
If anyone is willing to get serious about terrorizing these people (in a legal, nonviolent way), I'm in full support. If I were going to Jamaica this christmas, I would drop leaflets into the camp, despite its questionable legality.
Posts: 903 | Registered: May 2003
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Teen Liberty Alexia Park's Anerican Gulag. This woman spent years trying to rescue a niece from two different behav mod schools. And the book looks well-researched and comprehensive. I'm going to read it and go from there.A little 1st hand experience data is needed...
posted
Naw, maybe I was inchoherent. I was mad. But I made good points anyway. The cult thing is repeated in many sources...I didn't know this until after I thought it was cult, so..very happy with my understanding but sickened.
posted
I like the leaflet idea, but those can easily be confiscated. Better to use amplifers and shout messages into the camp if possible. The staff can't stop the students from listening or punish them. By the way, what message would you want to send to them? "We are going to get you out"? "Don't give in"? "What they are doing to you is wrong"? "Rise up and throw off your oppressors"? What about offering practical assistance to the eighteen-year-olds who stay because they need their parents' support?
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
It was pretty dang clear, filetted, that you were insulting people. You used words like "frothing", "bandwagon", "sickening", "stupid", "hysterical", and implied that everyone who was very, very angry was being irrational and stupid, numerous times.
If you weren't trying to insult and criticize, then you sure made the same mistake on repeated posts.
That said, Hatrack isn't populated by gullible people. Just because you have been snookered by false articles and such in the past does not mean that we are making the same mistake.
And in fact we're not.
Had you concerned yourself with doing more research into the reactions, you would've discovered that we had independant corroboration already. We could discover the article was true or at least largely true almost immediately-there are even people who knew about the existence of such camps and worse before the thread was even started.
Next time you try to teach a lesson, make sure the class hasn't already learned it, m'kay?
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
flish, I edited out the worst of my b][ stuff to make my posts more readable and "punch up" the key points, as you so kindly suggested. And some of my graemlins. I kept most of the sad or angry ones though.
One weakness to the leaflet idea is it's littering. I like the idea of a biplane buzzing merrily around with a banner attached. Legal if you don't violate local (Jamaican) flying laws.
quote: What about offering practical assistance to the eighteen-year-olds who stay because they need their parents' support?
Tough question that I don't have an answer for. There's no denying that lots of these kids need lots of help. But what they need more than anything is their parents love (discussed endlessly on parenting threads.) Jail/schools with no teachers run by ex-pump jockies are bound to do more harm than good, I bet even most parents with kids there would understand that if they weren't being manipulated and taken to the cleaners by these base-born, soulless monsters Peace, Morbo
posted
You know, I’m started to think fileted may have had a good point.
Morbo. You keep saying you’re serious about this. I don’t know if you are, or if you’re just blowing off steam. But if you are serious, you need to stop and think about what you’re actually trying to accomplish. Are you just trying to do something dramatic to make yourself feel good, or do you really want to do something useful? Because the useful stuff is usually not very dramatic. Contact one of the survivors groups like the one Tom linked to on the first page and ask them what you should do.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Okay, then I have another suggestion. Do your early planning/brainstorming on scratch paper and save the forum for actual discussions. I mean that in the nicest possible way, but this thread is starting to read like a planning session for a really bad RPG campaign. And ultimately, we are talking about real people’s real lives.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Very good point, Dkw . A lot of the time I was typing as fast as I could, out of outrage and pity. You should have seen my posts before I edited them.
[edit suggestion to DKW and others: read wwasp web page: WWASP home page, then read reporting of what actually goes on in these camps. These kids are literally being treated as bad as POW's.]
I would put forth that that is precisely the reason this *is* important. We are talking about real people's lives.
Perhaps this forum isn't the place for trying to do this, but brainstorming sessions often start with ludicrous ideas and I find it amazing that some people are suggesting that the emotions and reactions to this (apparent) brutal oppression are somehow out of line or even surprising...
[ July 04, 2003, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: T. Analog Kid ]
Posts: 2112 | Registered: Sep 1999
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quote: this thread is starting to read like a planning session for a really bad RPG campaign. And ultimately, we are talking about real people’s real lives. dkw
Very true. But I bet close to half have played RPG's or are dedicated gamers right now, so its only natural. As far as real lives, many philosopher's have speculated that life is a game. I'm sure as a minister you've heard this before.
posted
according to this child abuse is defined as
quote: Child abuse and neglect is, at a minimum:
Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse or exploitation; or An act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm.
and emotional abuse is defined as
quote:
Emotional Abuse (psychological/verbal abuse/mental injury) includes acts or omissions by the parents or other caregivers that have caused, or could cause, serious behavioral, cognitive, emotional, or mental disorders. In some cases of emotional abuse, the acts of parents or other caregivers alone, without any harm evident in the child's behavior or condition, are sufficient to warrant child protective services (CPS) intervention. For example, the parents/caregivers may use extreme or bizarre forms of punishment, such as confinement of a child in a dark closet . Less severe acts, such as habitual scapegoating, belittling, or rejecting treatment, are often difficult to prove and, therefore, CPS may not be able to intervene without evidence of harm to the child.
I think according to that, the courts really ought to be able to stop this, because sending the kids TO these places is action on that part of the parents, leading to definite emotional abuse, and probly some physical
posted
Good point, Toretha. I wonder why the courts are so reluctant to intervene? Parental rights? Those have been eroding for decades. I don't know, I suspect they don't want to get involved in a complex and contoversial issue. Some test cases will have to be forced through the courts by activists, I suspect.
posted
I also don't understand why these parents aren't being jailed for child abuse. What goes on in these facilities, even what we know about, is abuse. What we don't know about is probably much worse. Even if it's not on American soil, these parents are sending their kids away to be abused. Doesn't that count? If an American mother sold her daughter into slavery, even if it was in Malaysia or Columbia or Antarctica, wouldn't it still count as abuse?
Posts: 2220 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
True, but could she be prosecuted on American soil for a crime only the beginnings of which are here (bundling Junior off)? A lawyer would have to figure this I think. I'm well read in law but this is very complicated.
And often the parents are sucked in without proper homework by the network of BS artists pretending to be independant. So far I 've found 10 different groups, all interlocked, all giving "independant" referals to each other... They're like damned bacteria...
posted
TAK, I wasn’t saying that it isn’t important. What I was saying is that playing around with heroic seeming actions, without proper support behind them, can do more harm than good. Example: A Hatracker goes on vacation to Jamaica and somehow manages to dump propaganda flyers into the camp. What has been accomplished? Probably nothing but angering the staff, making life worse for the residents.
There are organizations that have been studying this problem and working on ways to counter it for years. The fact that there is so much knowledge out there now – that Dateline and Time are taking an interest – is because of the work they are doing. They’ve already researched the relevant laws that we are speculating about, and know what levels of proof need to be met to invoke them.
Doing something real requires time and commitment and patience. Acting like a dilettante, while blowing off steam and making the person doing it feel like they’re accomplishing something, is liable to make things worse. And that’s why I said it’s playing games with people’s lives.
Edit to add: I’m not saying that people shouldn’t get involved, or should leave it to the organizations that are already working on it. I’m saying that people who want to get involved should do it in connection and cooperation with the people who are already working on it. Otherwise you’re either duplicating labor or even working at cross-purposes to one another.
posted
Well, dkw, I think the only thing I disagree with in your last post is the idea that dumping propoganda flyers wouldn't accomplish anything. Letting people know that hey haven't been abandoned is of prime importance in their resisting techniques like those employed at Tranquility Bay.
But can I add that dumping the propaganda flyers would only be helpful if it were part of a larger strategy? I'm pretty sure that's what you're thinking, anyway.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
absolutely... otherwise it'd be like overflying a deserted island, finding a shipwrecked crew, waving merrily and dropping a note that says "we'll be back!" and then flying away and forgetting them.
Posts: 2112 | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
Right. And that’s what I was starting to worry that some folks might actually do. Which is why I made the “real lives” comment. I should have been more clear. Thanks for calling me on it.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote: A Hatracker goes on vacation to Jamaica and somehow manages to dump propaganda flyers into the camp. What has been accomplished? Probably nothing but angering the staff, making life worse for the residents. dkw
True. It might make the activist happy, but accomplish little else. The ISAC(link here soon ) group e-mailed me July 4 and said they'd be happy to have me as volunteer, so that's where I'm going to focus my efforts. :sigh: And you made good points as well, taKid. Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
dkw, sorry if I irritated you yesterday, I was quite angry and defensive. When I thought back, I saw you made some good points that I take to heart. Morbo
posted
I've also looked for more info on this topic, and found almost nothing.
This should be headline news. Instead, it is last page, one paragraph in the single article that apeared in N.Y. Times, 3 months ago. Some newspapers have never heard of this place. If we could, through letters, email, excetera, stirr up public interest in this horror, I'm sure there would be sufficent outcry, villegenti justice, and parent pressure to significantly damper the sucess of their "reducation" programs.
Posts: 61 | Registered: May 2002
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If I was American I'd definitely be writing my Congressman. Or something. I dunno. I agree, it's unbelievable that this gets no media attention.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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