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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » The "Last Resort" - what sick parents will do to their children. (Page 3)

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Author Topic: The "Last Resort" - what sick parents will do to their children.
filetted
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Ok.

I guess I just read the first link. My question was about whether people believe everything they read. Given one stupid article, I find it a little strange that folks start volunteering for executioner detail. This disturbs me. It has nothing to do with the right or wrong or what was posted. The reaction is frightening.

I'm wondering why people feel compelled to issue violent justice on some bit of news they read, and then why people feel compelled to jump on the lynching bandwagon.

flish

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filetted
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*doubles post for effect*

I understand that people have passionate opinions. I also understand that the typical hatracker strives for a worldly, patient, and understanding view of the world.

This is precisely why I find myself extremely disturbed when threats of violence (as soon as the justification appears the frothing hounds are loosed) crop up. The band-wagon effect is even more disturbing.

There is a disconnect here. A very fundamental one.

flish

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Shigosei
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I know Icarus wanted us to stop throwing the word evil around so much. However, I can without a doubt say that this camp is Evil. It needs to be shut down right now.

Any pratical suggestions on how to go about doing this?

Edit to respond to filetted: This is not an isolated case. A girl died awhile back at a "wilderness camp" (re-education camp) here in Oregon. To me, sending kids off to a foreign country by force, without knowing the conditions they'll live under is pretty negligent. I also suspect that because of the reporter conditions were actually better than usual. I've also read about another Wwasp camp, Casa by the Sea, that employs similar brainwashing techniques.

[ July 03, 2003, 02:00 AM: Message edited by: Shigosei ]

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littlemissattitude
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filetted...yes, I've read the entire thread. My reactions to the article, which I also read in it's entirety, are based on the fact that there are documented instances of these sorts of places existing. Even if there was some exaggeration in the article (I obviously have no way of knowing whether or not this is the case), news reports of injuries and deaths at other such places prove to my satisfaction that there are abuses taking place in the child and adolescent private corrections industry (I guess that is what you would call it). Since it is a matter of public record that there are places like this, at the very least, they should all be open to inspection so that it can be established whether or not the things presented in the article are taking place. If anything like these things are found to be taking place, the institutions in question should be shut down immediately.

As I was not one of those suggesting an assault on the place, I cannot speak to what moved the people who did suggest it, to make those suggestions.

Edited to add a missing comma.

[ July 03, 2003, 02:46 AM: Message edited by: littlemissattitude ]

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filetted
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Shigosei,

I understand what you are saying. I'm not questioning the truth of the article or its relation to similar things. I'm questioning the response.

flish

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filetted
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LMA,

The veracity of the article isn't what I'm questioning.

flish

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Shigosei
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Are you questioning the anger response or the violent response? I see no reason to question why this story upset people. As for the violence, some people may simply be venting without being serious. However, I think that force may be justified in this case, if not violence against people. For instance, I would not object to a court order to bring those children home, even if it required the local police to do it. And hey, if the U.S. could take Elian Gonzalez from his relatives' home with a quasi-military force (guns and all), I don't see how raiding Tranquility Bay is any different. Personally, I'd just like to see Congress make this sort of camp illegal here in the land of the supposedly free and put an end to abduction. No camps here, no transportation to foreign camps, and this particular problem goes away. No violence required.
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filetted
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Shigosei,

Picture, if you will, the opening portions of this thread but in the real world.

Now, replace the first post, real, true, or not with anything intended to stir up people's self-righteous bloodlust.

From supposedly rational and compassionate human beings, the knee-jerk lurch forward into punishment, retribution, and life-taking seems exceedingly extreme.

flish

[ July 03, 2003, 03:25 AM: Message edited by: filetted ]

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Shigosei
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I'll take that as an "I'm upset about the violent reactions."

Fine, though I think the comment about dropping thermonuclear bombs was just hyperbole. I don't see anyone seriously advocating the use of deadly force or any real "blood lust."

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filetted
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Upset about violent reactions? Yes I am.

On an internet forum?

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Rakeesh
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Filetted,

It was quite difficult to understand what you were trying to say before you articulated it clearly. I think perhaps breaking up every sentence into seperate posts might cost you a bit of coherence until you have a several-paragraphs post...just a thought.

That said, I'm pretty surprised you're surprised. You're surprised that people, believing that article-which comes from a decent source, mind, and has been backed up by other corroroborating research-are furious over what is going on at Tranquility Bay? Are you seriously suggesting that people were being literal about things like going down to Jamaica with swords, or shotguns, or nuclear weapons? It was pretty obvious that was hperbole. I am forced to wonder if you're not being obtuse on that for the sake of argument.

The article wasn't "stupid". It's not strange or lynch-mob or bandwagon mentality that many people feel extremely angry over what is going on in Tranquility Bay and other similar prisons.

So...no, I'm afraid there is not a disconnnect, fundamental or otherwise. I'm afraid you're quite mistaken when you choose to view those horrified and angry at what's going on to vent a bit and express their anger as frothing hounds just begging for a chance to rend and tear something.

The "bloodlust" is not self-righteous, either. Look up the definition, if you like.

What do you mean by, "On an Internet forum?"

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Rakeesh
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Edit: the criticism obvious in your posts is quite insulting too, by the way.
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twinky
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>> I guess I just read the first link. My question was about whether people believe everything they read. Given one stupid article, I find it a little strange that folks start volunteering for executioner detail. This disturbs me. It has nothing to do with the right or wrong or what was posted. The reaction is frightening. <<

It's called "hyperbole for effect," and I happen to make use of it more frequently when I'm angry.

I find it incomprehensible that you're more concerned are the reactions of random people on an internet forum than you are about what's going on at these "resorts," the existence of which has been corroborated by numerous sources, as you would have seen had you read the rest of the thread.

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Morbo
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I feel you, flish. The rhetoric did get more than a little heated.

I tried to tone the violent rhetoric (after notching it up early) and find legal, constructive tactics against wwasp.

I don't remember ever becoming so instantly enraged about some organization.
I do believe it's essentially a cult, but I need to do more research.
I'd bet anyone, 20-1 odds, with out even checking, that wwasp has been extremly litigous against all critics (especially those kids) to silence any criticism or dissent in the media.[edited for smug bold tags--see verification in Buuusted! post below]
This is an extremly effective and legal tactic used to great advantage by the Church of Scientology to crush dissent for the past 50 years. [Frown]
I stand behind everything I posted yesterday.
Your bud,Morbo [Cool] [Smile]

[ July 04, 2003, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: Morbo ]

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T. Analog Kid
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I will stand and say that it was not hyperbole for effect, on my part.

First, I should say that Morbo's idea of getting messages of support to those kids is awesome. I have taken resistance training and spent 48 hrs (I know, not that much, really) in a simulated POW camp and I know how much a simple message from the outside means. Should anyone here organize or find out about an attempt to send such a message, I would like to know about it so I can volunteer to help. Those of you that have read or seen Black Hawk Down may recall that we sent helicopters out to broadcast, night and day "Mike Durant, we will not leave you. We will not forget you" and how much that meant to him to hear that. Contacting Amnesty International might be good, too, though I suppose they would be involved by now if this was in their purvey. I guess political prisoners are more important than children.

But I seriously, and for the first time, mind you, was considering that perhaps a physical confrontation might be the only way to solve this one.

Say all you will about non-violent resistance... all the non-violent resistance in the world would not have prevented the Nazis from controlling Europe. This group has the blessings of the sovereign nation in which it is located and they are doing reprehensible things. They are doing violence to these children and it has been substantiated through several articles, one of which I posted myself. Hold to your non-violent principles as you wish, the simple fact is that once someone has shown themselves ruthless enough to use violence on others to get their way, only one expedient remains: violently subdue them. I agree that the gentleman in Tianamen Square was brave, heroic, and did something incredible.

Effective, however, he was not.

China continues in it's cycle of repression. Fortunately, they are not imperial and seem more than content to sit on their own people rather than subjugate others. These people will continue until some *force* legal or otherwise is brought to bear on them. They are not going to give up $60 million a year in income just because of a few episodes of civil disobedience. Looking at the article I posted (the revolt in Costa Rica) it was government officials stepping in which did the trick. Perhaps Jamaica can be convinced to do the same?

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dkw
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Rakeesh, when I started to write that last post, I agreed with you that non-violent direct action would probably not work in Tranquility Bay. I even started to write that as a disclaimer, that in a closed situation where the staff has such total control and the oppressor/oppressed ratio is so high it couldn’t work.

But then I stopped to think about it. Do they have the facilities to keep all their “students” in OP at once? How about half? If every kid in that place sat down on the floor and refused to move, went limp when they were dragged to OP and just plain refused to cooperate, what could they do? They’d almost certainly resort to violence, but if the kids were willing to be beaten and still wouldn’t move, what would they do? They could stop feeding them, but if the kids are willing to starve, then what?

The system at Tranquility Bay depends on the “upper level” participants reinforcing the system. What if they stopped? They’d be demoted and loose all their points, but what if they all did it? The catch to non-violent resistance is that the participants have to be just as willing to die for what they’re fighting for as someone who fights with a gun. How many deaths can Tranquility Bay afford? How many kids crippled from beatings? How many sent home suffering from malnutrition and with muscles atrophied from lying on the floor 24 hours a day for years? How long can they keep going if no one “advances” in the program? If kids turn 18 and leave rather than staying around because Mommy and Daddy won’t pay for law school unless they stick it out? And then take their return ticket and their $50 and start contacting the parents of the other kids? Heck, how many kids would it take if they turned 18 and said, “Mom, Dad, I don’t care if you cut me off without a cent, I’d rather live on the street than stay in this place one more day.”

TAK, effective non-violent resistance in this case would not be “a few episodes of civil disobedience.” It would be a campaign to make it unprofitable for the camps to continue to operate. I agree, they would not give up $60 million. But they could lose it.

I’m convinced that if you seeded Tranquility Bay with kids who’d been through Highlander or CPT training, it would be closed in six months. Of course, kids with that background would never be sent there in the first place, so it isn’t going to happen. But if other people on the thread can fantasize about nuclear weapons, I guess it’s okay if I fantasize about a nonviolent covert ops team infiltrating the place.

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twinky
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I'm the only one on this thread who has said anything about nuclear weapons.
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dkw
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Does that mean I can't fantasize a non-violent covert ops team?

Or does it just mean that only one person can?

[Wink]

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Rakeesh
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We agree then, dkw. While it's possible for some people to successfully overthrow it from within, I think that Tranquility Bay screens for that sort of person, perhaps. Or else they're locked into OP on a more or less permanent basis.

As for outside intervention, though...for instance, a message being sent into the prison, or perhaps a "ringer"...I agree, that could definitely work. But it would have to be a lot of ringers. I think it's a given that, in the short-term, the prisoners aren't going to sign on with nonviolent resistance. After all, the staff has total power over them and as far as the prisoner is concerned, infinite resources with which to break them down (this is more what I meant when I said infinite resources...infinite for the purposes of dealing with isolated, infrequent resisting prisoners).

It could work, but it needs a critical mass, so to speak, before it's possible. I guess what I'm really pessimistic about is that critical mass being acheived from within, without outside effort.

It's a good dream, though:) A better one than mine, I'll admit, which could be loosely described as Batman-style utter butt-whomping of the staff and owners and hunting down the funders. Probably intimidation of the parents who are simply so negligent and wicked as to send their children to such a place-they aren't ignorant of what the camp does, they go to a seminar about it, too.

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Morbo
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Putting ringers inside, while tempting, is very risky and would require $20000 or more for 1 kid.
He would have to be straight out of early Heinlein or Doc Smith to be effective. [Frown] [Frown]

[ July 04, 2003, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: Morbo ]

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Kayla
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http://www.msnbc.com/news/932100.asp These parents seem to be doing the same thing, but they are doing the work themselves. Did anyone see this Sunday night on Dateline? It was interesting.

Also. . .

quote:
IV.History of behavior modifying institutions
Behavior modifying programs came into existence during the birth of behavioral psychology in the 1960’s. Investigators in the behavior research area first began these programs with institutionalized adult and juvenile offenders, hoping to deprogram their criminal behavior. At the time, criminal behavior was believed to be “a learned phenomena”. In such a closed environment, the behavior modification system of punishments and rewards could be stringently controlled.
In the late 1960’s and early 1970’s, these behavior modifying programs flourished. Studies show statistically short-term improvement in the reduction of undesirable inmate behavior for more desirable behavior. These changes in behavior were associated with the reinforcement contingencies of reward and punishment . However, in the late 1970’s, some problems were found in these institutions that led to reduction of many institutional behavior modification programs. The problems identified were: “institutional constraints,” “external political and economic pressure,”, “limited supplies and personnel,” and “the often deleterious methodological compromises caused by these influences”. Also staff resistance to adherence in the behavior modification procedures, and “staff perceptions that experiments were inflexible and dictatorial”. These institutions’ problems seem to stem from the use of coercion and lack of funding which may have sparked fear into the hearts of many--behavior modification programs gone bad.
In response to this trend, popular books and movies such as A Clockwork Orange, The Manchurian Candidate, Brave New World, and 1984 further amplified people’s fear of being controlled through “exaggerated fictional presentations said to portray some version of behavior modification”.11People’s fear of being controlled stems from the far-reaching abilities to control other’s behavior through behavior modification. Since the birth of behavior modification, words such as “brainwashed” and “mind control” have become part of the American vocabulary. These words also played upon the idea that people are afraid of losing their autonomy and dignity--of having their minds controlled by another. In a nation that respects the autonomy of persons, behavior modification could have negative effects when used on society as a whole. Heldman, a law review critique, “argued that behavior modification could be used to ‘impose an orthodoxy of ‘appropriate conduct’ on the community and thus to silence social and political dissent’.12 Heldman’s hypothesis may have ignited some of the attacks on behavior modifying institutions.
The most problematic attacks on behavior modification programs were legal challenges in court and in the House of Representatives. The most prominent of these was when the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) sued the notorious Special Treatment and Rehabilitative Training (START) program for the use of coercive strategies to achieve inmate compliance(U.S. Congress, 1974a). Congress was involved because “members of Congress...criticized behavioral technology and expressed concern about the treatment of research subjects and infringements on freedoms in therapy and research in general, as well as specifically in behavior modification”.13 Ultimately, START was shut down by the Federal Bureau of Prisons during litigation. Questions remain as to whether or not the behavior modification that replaced it post-litigation, was more coercive.14
As a result of the legal challenges and ethical issues pertaining to these institutions, by the 1980’s behavioral approaches to crime and delinquency were almost nonexistent. Behavioral approaches to crime and delinquency are referred to by Milan and Long as “the last frontier of behavior psychology”.15
V. When did these privately funded schools come into existence?
Behavior modifying schools and camps, known as boarding schools, had been established during the late 1960’s, early 1970’s and 1980’s. Privately funded boarding schools that had behavior modifying programs such as Cedu (est. 1967), Provo Canyon School (est.1971), Oak Creek (est. 1972), DeSisto (est. 1978), and Rocky Mountain Academy (est. 1982) were not well known.16 As shown through the growth of the teen help industry, these behavior modifying schools and camps did not become popular until the 1990’s. Now the aforementioned schools are well known among other newly founded behavior modifying schools and camps such as Tranquility Bay, Cascade, Cross Creek Manor, New Hope, and Red Rock Springs, to name a few. Recently, an alarming trend has been occurring in the teen help industry. Parents nationwide have been sending their troubled teenagers to behavior modifying schools or camps across the country, some to places as remote as Jamaica, Costa Rica, and Samoa. This explosive growth in the teen help industry is apparent in the mid-July 1999 web rankings ranked by the Alexa program at strugglingteens.com of behavior modifying/camps and sites related to them: 169,394 Intrepidnet Reporter, 240,383 Cascade School, 283,540 ASI, 417,337 SUWS, 566,957 WWASP, 592,368 CEDU, 660,723 Catherine Freer Wilderness Therapy, 673,273 DeSisto School, 900,894 Natl. Assn. Of Therapeutic Wilderness Camps, 970,730 Arizona Boys Ranch, 1,040,931 Cross Creek Manor, 1,043,904 Adolescent Guidance Services, 1,254,308, Red Rock Springs, and 1,781,847 Spring Creek Lodge.17
Since then, behavior modifying schools and camps, nearly 2,000 of them, have become the subject of controversy and have been brought to nationwide attention through the media. These schools and camps have gotten wide exposure in the last 3 years: in newspaper articles in major dailies throughout the country; magazines such as Time, Outside, and Seventeen; television shows such as CBS’s 48 hours; internet sites such as “Intrepidnet” and “Teen Liberty”; and Alexia Parks’ book, An American Gulag.
These schools and camps are the subject of controversy for three reasons. One, because they appear to be an improper response by “new breed” parents to place the parenting duties on a school because the parents lack the ability to parent or because they fear their teenager. Two, because claims of abuse have been brought to attention by teenagers that have been escorted to these schools. These teenagers are either suing or planning to sue the schools and their parents.18 Sergio Alva, a teenager who was escorted to Paradise Cove in Samoa, plans to file a lawsuit against Paradise Cove on charges of abuse.19 David van Blarigan, a teenager who was escorted to Jamaica Bay, is in the process of filing a lawsuit against the school and his parents.20 There are many other lawsuits in process. And three, ethical questions about the denial of the civil and human rights of teenagers have been raised. Teen-rights activists such as Alexia Parks have responded through various forms of media in an attempt to have these schools and camps regulated by the government or terminated.

http://www.seaburyhall.org/library/rhodara/compcl/grclass/gr99/vmartin/behaviormodify.html

So, it's not legal to do to adult prisoners, but okay for children. Children have no rights. Didn't y'all know that? [Wink]

quote:
On foreign soil

U.S. laws do not govern the care American teens receive in overseas behavior modification compounds.

"The U.S. government is definitely aware that these camps exist, but they are run by private companies, and these private companies have agreements with the parents," said Rebekah Drame, a spokeswoman for the State Department's Bureau of Consular Affairs. "The country where the facility is located is solely responsible for regulating these private entities since it has permitted the facility to operate within its jurisdiction and is therefore subject to its laws.

"When aware of the existence of such facilities, U.S. consular officials conduct periodic site visits, sometimes accompanied by host country officials, to monitor the general well-being of the U.S. citizen enrollees. ... U.S. consular officials are not qualified to determine whether the programs offered by the facilities are of therapeutic benefit to the minors involved."


http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/desperate/site-desperate/mpg6-desperate.shtml
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T. Analog Kid
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I would not want to volunteer someone to try to work that place from the inside... it would figuratively be little different from the oft-mentioned guy in Tianamen Square. (Side note: this is really ticking me off... I need to look up his NAME, for crying out loud!)
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dkw
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No, I wouldn’t either. It wouldn’t be the most effective use of resources. I was just making the point that it could work. And it wouldn’t be any less effective than a group of Hatrackers planning a liberation raid.

If people on the outside really want to make a difference, I think they need to hook up with the survivors groups, work on publicity aimed at parents who are prospective customers, get legislators involved (especially re: the camps in this country), etc.

But possibly the most important is to develop and support effective, community-based alternatives for problem kids. Some of these parents just don’t care, some are fooled by the public-face that wwasp programs put out, but some are truly desperate and are willing to try anything. Not all of those kids were straight A students headed for Harvard until they picked the wrong boyfriend. Some of them need serious intervention.

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Kayla
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TAK, he doesn't have a name. [Wink]

From 1998. . .

quote:
The lone Chinese protester who brought a column of tanks to a standstill in Tiananmen Square during the 1989 crackdown was never arrested and is still at large, a Hong Kong-based dissident group has said.
.
.
.
.
.
The Information Centre for Human Rights and Democracy Movement in China says it has obtained official documents that show the Chinese government does not know what happened to him.

Although the man was initially identified as Wang Weilin, the documents suggest the name was false.
.
.
.
Time magazine has cited the unidentified protester as one of the "top 20 leaders and revolutionaries" of the 20th century.

Dubbing him "the Unknown Rebel," the American news journal said his moment of fame was seen by more people than laid eyes on Winston Churchill, Albert Einstein and James Joyce combined.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/75679.stm
And the Time article.

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T. Analog Kid
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<green with envy while bowing to Kayla's superior command of useless knowledge>
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Morbo
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Buuuusted!!! [Smile] ::smug::
Look at my post above where I said wwasp would be extremly litigious to try and crush dissent and any media critics or scrutiny.Then read letter below threatening lega action to an investigative reporter!
I swear it was a prediction with no info beyond what the Church of Scientolgy does, general cult expertise, and previous links.
(((Kayla))) * settles in for the long haul to wade through mountain of data she posted*
to a reporter investigating wwasp facilities--I think have to go back and check
quote:

"I am sorry that it has taken so long to get back to you but I have been visiting facilities, checking on things and generally busy. I did enjoy having the telephone conversation with you the other day. However, by checking on things that you told me and have told other people I have determined that most of your information is NOT accurate, distorted, not up to date and slanted.(Morbo--note the very defensive, almost paranoid tone) This goes all the way from who owns what to the "nude" beach claim and all in between.

I would like to reemphasize the ownership of the facilities to avoid confusion. Cross Creek Manor, LLC by Jill Co Inc. and Recaf, Inc. Paradise Cove School LTD, by Brian Viafanua, Angie Viafanua, Tala Lee and Lafi Onesema with a sponsor of Island Tours and Expeditions. Tranquility Bay DBA by (sic) Caribbean Center (sic) for Change LTD who is Jay Kay. Spring Creek Lodge, By Jill Co., Inc., Recaf, Inc. and Dan Peart. Morava Academy; by A Czech Republic Corp. with Martin Pilk as President.

I do have some concern, as do the directors of the facilities as to your intentions. Is it to attain accurate information or to dwell half-truths, missinformation (sic) and rumors. It is felt that you need to be accountable to facts so that no harm or damage will occur that could result in legal action." signed fax to a reporte from wwasp exec director Farnsworth

And for the slam dunk, the stupidest sentence---
quote:

I do have some concern, as do the directors of the facilities as to your intentions.

If the facilities in question are not owned or controlled by wwasp, how does he know what their concerns are? And why should he care??
This moron Farny gave up the ghost in one short fax!!!
He actually contradicts himself from one paragraph to the next!

Let this be a lesson, kids, never mess with a mathematician...you'll never see us coming !! [Smile] [Mad] [Big Grin] [Razz]
More litigation: denver newspaper link
quote:
Teen Help [intelocked with wwasp] has officially denied the allegations in court and has countersued Ceta Dochterman, the mother, charging her with breach of contract.


[ July 04, 2003, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Morbo ]

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Morbo
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Note that threatening legal action is dirt cheap and threatens and intimidates many into shutting up.
But not ol' Morbo [Smile]

[Edit to respond to Ban below:
Yes, the MSNBC thing was extreme.
But it seems called for as you said. That child needed help, and other treatments were not workinhg. It was done at home with family and with what sounded like expert care. He's lucky his foster parents loved him or they could have given up.
Then he would have gone into "the System" and surely would have been doomed ]

[ July 03, 2003, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: Morbo ]

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BannaOj
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I don't have nearly as much of a problem with what went on in the MSNBC article as I do with the parents sending their kids off for unknown persons to indiscriminately beat up.

The program that these parents embarked on, they invested the time and training and TOOK RESPONSIBILITY for the outcome. They were still with the child every day. Yes the tactics were somewhat extreme but the case seemed far, far more extreme than the kind that most of the kids that are in the wwasp programs appear to be.

With Dane all discipline and restraint was administered by the parents. I tend to wonder why they didn't use what to me was apparent common sense and do this program on a milder level when they were having problems at the ages between 2 and 6 rather than the age of 12 though I understand the case was extreme. But in the end it was the parents,like I said,taking responsibility NOT institutionalizing him or shipping him off to Jamaica!

AJ
Edit to add: This is from Debbie's letter at http://www.msnbc.com/news/932103.asp
She clearly repudiates any progam like wwasp!
quote:
To those parents who are struggling, I want to say don’t ever give up! You are the key to helping your child. You will change as much or more than your special child. There are many questionable therapies, programs, or boot camps you could send your child to expecting someone else to “fix” your kid. Unfortunately, there are also many tragic stories as a result of some of the recent practices somehow called therapy. I encourage you to keep your child with you and commit to sticking together as a family.


[ July 03, 2003, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]

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Morbo
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Other criticism of the organization came earlier this year from a company executive shortly after he temporarily left its staff.
quote:
"These people are basically a bunch of untrained people who work for this organization," Ken Kay told the Denver Rocky Mountain News in an interview before he rejoined Teen Help as a vice president. "So they don't have credentials of any kind. ...

"We could be leading these kids to long-term problems that we don't have a clue about because we're not going about it in the proper way. ...

"How in the hell can you call yourself a behavior modification program -- and that's one of the ways it's marketed -- when nobody has the expertise to determine: Is this good, is this bad?"
Ken Kay wwasp VP, presently President of WWASP!



I couln't have said it better myself.. [Frown] [Smile]
quote:
Teen Liberty From Alexia Park's book An American Gulag, about her years long attempts to rescue her niece from 2 jail/schools: This book describes my entry into this secret underworld of child abuse. In my search for "Katie", I learned that she had been sent by her single-parent mother to a locked, rigorous, one year, behavior-modification program. It was run by a quasi-religious group. She would have virtually no communication with family members during that year. I also learned that the combination of physical constraints and limited access would set up a cult-like atmosphere in which "Katie" might be coerced into accepting extreme religious views which were not part of the family's value system.
quote:
Teen liberty In many ways, Friendship Glen operates like a cult that sucks you in,takes your money, screws you up, and brainwashes you into believing that it's good for you. My ex-husband certainly was brainwashed. He thought the
school was great and wanted to keep my daughter there until she was 18.
I
wanted her out but didn't know what to do, since we have joint custody and
I could not afford a lawyer. I prayed and cried and raged about the situation
and then one day was led to my computer to research and investigate the
school. What I found was utterly shocking and disturbing. All of my worst
fears were confirmed.

And you thought I was ranting about cults. Well, so did I. (except littlemisscool, wheat puppet and others who posted props)

[ July 04, 2003, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Morbo ]

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BannaOj
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Morbo, AJ would greatly appreciate it if you could indicate more specifically which websites your quotes were coming from. It makes it much less confusing for AJ.

Thanks,

AJ

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Morbo
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From wwasp FAQ web page:
quote:
Q: Are WWASPS Schools accredited?
A: We work closely with the Northwest Association of Schools and Colleges to insure that all academic requirements are being met for our High School Programs. For new schools, there may be a short period in the beginning that operate under an application for accreditation to prepare for a required initial site visit.
Q: Do you have certified teachers?
A: Yes, the teachers are certified by the state or country where the school is located.

When I first read the accreditation answer, I thought they said "yes, we are accredited, by NASC. So I checked NASC homepage, and discoverd that no, they are not. Then I reread the answer and tipped my hat to the cunning, evasive jerks. They imply that they have accreditation, but never come out and say they do .Sheeesh.
For the second answer, the original story on this thread says that none of they "teachers" need have any teaching training, much less any formal certifacation.
Parents are really being taken for a ride here, note that WWasp contracts forbid suing for false advertisments...a clause I'd never heard of before in a contract but I'm beginning to see why wwasp needs it...
Peace, Morbo [Frown] [Frown] [Mad]

[ July 04, 2003, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: Morbo ]

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dkw
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Morbo, please use the quote box only for what is actually being quoted. Like this:

From wwasp FAQ web page:
quote:

Q: Are WWASPS Schools accredited?
A: We work closely with the Northwest Association of Schools and Colleges to insure that all academic requirements are being met for our High School Programs. For new schools, there may be a short period in the beginning that operate under an application for accreditation to prepare for a required initial site visit.
Q: Do you have certified teachers?
A: Yes, the teachers are certified by the state or country where the school is located.

The way you’ve been doing it, I keep thinking the source of the quote is part of the quote.
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Morbo
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Makes sense. More readable that way.
I'll try to catch up on links.
The best quote so far is from the current WWASP President.He really slams into his own organization when he was on the outside briefly.
My guess would be he lost a power struggle temporarily and negative comments were a way to play hard-ball and regain control.
Thers are at least 5 interlocked groups:wwasp,Teen health,Teens-in-Crisis and 1 more. (Note the domain names to suck in parents.
This was very sickening:named after a troubled dead 16-year-old, [Mad] the C.S. Landre foundation which claimed to be independant and non-profit but only recomended wwasp schools. So even if you die they can still use you in propaganda!
All of these organizations round-robin recomendations for each other, like a circle of back-slappers. [Mad]

[ July 04, 2003, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: Morbo ]

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Morbo
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http://mountainparkhorrors.netfirms.com/Bethal.htm
A Missisippi jail/school weird brouhaha when court order to cease-and desist is served by 30+ cops...from Supreme Court of Missisipi which denied the appeal of a school employee...more readable than most court documents, it tells a good story.

Then, a kid that was in WWASP Samoan camp and others refused to give in ... but it cost him. [Frown]
quote:
Paul Richards, Teen Help/WWASP victim shortly before he got out: They attempted to break me," Paul said. "So that I would realize how important my parents were to me."

He said the facilitators tried to make him read motivational books they thought he would hate.

"So I would write book reports using words they could not understand. They became very annoyed. ... They attempted to put me on what they nicknamed 'poltergeist.' And I sat on a chair and stared at a wall, a TV, a microwave, with approximately a foot between the chair and the wall, all day long, for days on end. I was below Level 1. I was on Level Zero, probation, as they put it.

They never broke this very cool kid, and he left on his 18th birthday after two years in programs... I salute him!
But his parents won't take him back home or help with college unless he goes back in...
He lives with neighbors that were apalled to see him rousted out of his home at 3AM by 3 big dudes.
Paul Richards story from denver.rockymountainnews.com, which has done extensive research and stories. [Big Grin]

[ July 04, 2003, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: Morbo ]

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sndrake
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I'm amazed by the shock this story has elicited. Those of us familiar with disability issues have known for a long time that human rights are regularly stomped on by parents and professionals using some form of abuse and calling it treatment.

One of the most notorious institutions in the U.S. operates facilities in Massachussetts and Rhode Island. "Students" there not only are subjected to spanks, pepper sprays, and electric shocks - they're put on "specialized food plans" - in which every bite of food they get is contingent on performing a desired behavior. The plan allows for "students" to be fed as little as 300 calories per day. The ACLU doesn't care. Amnesty International doesn't care. It's just disabled kids getting treatment and they don't want to get involved with that.

Here's a link to a particularly disturbing death that occurred under the auspices of this organization: The Death of Linda Cornelison.

I've pretty much lost my capacity for shock. But my capacity for anger and outrage, I'm proud to report, still seem to be intact.

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Morbo
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Holy Mother of God, that poor girl was starved and tortured to death in a care facility...

Same link as above, testimony at an open hearing in the Massachusett State House
quote:
BRI Director Matthew Israel, PhD, defended his program by citing the Autism Society of America (ASA) position statement ...[and] insisted that aversives constitute effective "therapy." However, he was forced to admit that 5,300 electroshocks in one day did not work for one BRI client.
This chucklehead admits this under oath and he's still in charge of anything? [Eek!] [Confused] [Frown]

Well sndrake, it appears every time a rock is turned over more slugs come out. I feel sick. [Frown] [Frown]

[ July 03, 2003, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Morbo ]

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Ethics Gradient
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Bah. This makes me immensely angry. I just wanted to state my support for those who feel that something needs to be done. And to the individual - yep, that's you, filetted - moaning about people actually caring (rather than just making snide, rude and incoherent remarks) about what happens in the world, and especially to children... Well, yeah. Please stop feeling that your primary role is to put down and ridicule and attention-grab. If you have a complaint, please try and put it in something reasonably a coherent form.

Rakeesh, I agree with everything you've said.

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Morbo
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EG to be fair, flish was mainly talking about the extreme , violent rhetoric flying about (including from yours truly), not that people cared or not.

Any thoughts on legal tactics to go after these groups?
(i mean any tactic that's not illegal)

[ July 03, 2003, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: Morbo ]

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Ethics Gradient
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Actually, I disagree. I think filetted was in fact implicitly attacking people's feelings on the matter.

It was blatantly obvious that the rhetoric was largely hyperbole. If he can't see straight away then he needs to take a breath or two before hitting "Post Reply", madly typing a third of a sentence and then clicking "Submit".

That's all I have to say on the matter.

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filetted
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Rakeesh,

I split up my posts because I realized I was trying (and likely failing) to ask a coherent question about the nature of people's reactions rather than the topic itself.

"on an internet forum". This was vague, yes. I was thinking that given that one link and the fictional nature of most posters names, that the idea of getting so frothed up seems ludicrous. Yes, maybe I should have interpretted this as hyperbole. But given the length of the thread and the non-game aspect, that's a hard conclusion for me to reach.

None of my posts have anything to do with the way I feel about what might be going on in tranquility bay. I was trying to make a point about collective self-reflection. i.e. "hey folks, we're all getting ourselves worked up into a hysterical state. that should send up warning flags. how about we all calm down and make sure we know what we're talking about?"

I don't understand your post about being critical and offensive. I may have been, inadvertantly. I apologize for whatever personal criticisms you read.

flish

PS. If the article and phenomenon is true, it's sickening. More so if this american is involved as that suggests someone using his inflated influence to create his own self-indulgent twisted shop of horrors.

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Morbo
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quote:
"hey folks, we're all getting ourselves worked up into a hysterical state. that should send up warning flags
Yes. I went ballistic immeaditely and obsessed about it.
I had to back off, calm down, and regain perspective. [Mad] [Frown]

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filetted
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Not related to this story, I've had some personal experience with going ballistic on newspaper reportings that turned out to be 100% fictional fabrications by would-be journalists... to which
older wiser members of my social circle responded
to my fury with "Wait? so what you're telling me is
that you can't believe everything you read?" *mentor turns back to his work at hand*

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filetted
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Morb,

Can you give me a rundown of the veracity of that article?

flish

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filetted
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EG,

What the heck? I think I explained repeatedly that I was trying to ask a question about the nature of the reactions, not the topic itself.

flish

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Kayla
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flish, how do you run down veracity?

It was published in the Boston Globe? Does that work for you?

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filetted
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kayla,

I was not challenging the veracity, I was asking for a rundown of what Morbo had looked into.

flish

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Kayla
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So, you just wanted the Cliff Notes of sndrakes link?
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dkw
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A similar article about the sister school in Costa Rica was in either Time or Newsweek last month. (Sorry I don't remember which one. I read it at the doctor's office.) Does that add credibility?
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filetted
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I was asking for a coherent explanation without icons, changing fonts, and discussions of infiltration and scientology.

flish

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Morbo
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They're scum.
Happy?

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