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Author Topic: The four words men hate to hear.
msquared
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"We need to talk."

Why do women wait until you are just drifting off to sleep to utter these words? Why is it said, just at the kick off to the big game?

These 4 small words send shivers down most males spines, becuase we know what the topic will be. Or more likely what it won't be. It will not be her saying "Honey, I know you work so hard, I will cut the grass from now on." It will not be "Honey, I know that you have had a really tought week, why don't you and the gusy go to the local stip club. And here is a $100 for lap dances."

We just know that it will be that she wantst to talk about the relationship or someother thing that she wants the guy to change.

Ladies, I challange you to come up with a creative way to get our attention when you want to talk about things like this.

msquared

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Erik Slaine
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AHHH! AHHHH! AHH! AHH! [Eek!]

::Runs screaming out of the thread with the mention of those four words::

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MaureenJanay
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For me, I usually think that my husband KNOWS we need to talk, and I'm expecting him to acknowledge it before bedtime. Unfortunately, that means that I have to bring it up before he falls asleep, or stay up all night feeling sad. I'm just now learning that just because I'm mad, it doesn't mean that Jesdog has any clue what's going on.
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katharina
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Or they could never say it.

They could never talk about it. When something bugs them, they could just hold it all in. They could never, ever tell you when there's an issue, and just save it and never say a word, so when it does finally HAVE to be resolved, they know that you don't want to talk about it, so they have to figure out the solution on their own, without your input. When they come up with the only solution that will leave you completely out of it, you're completely blindsided and helpless to do anything about it because you've been kept in the dark.

That would eliminate those words. Replace "We need to talk" with "I won't be miserable."

[ September 16, 2003, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]

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katharina
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*points to adam's post*

Exactly. That's what never saying "we need to talk" looks like. Not saying it doesn't eliminate the need to do it.

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msquared
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But you see my point is not that she really wants to talk, it's that she has already worked out the solution that she wants and now she is going to tell me how "we" are going to solve the problem. It almost always involves me changing my ways so that things are easier for her. After 15 years of marriage, you might think we would have things worked out.

msquared

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MaureenJanay
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m2, she probably thinks that if you need to talk about a change that will make things easier for YOU, then it's your job to notice it and bring it up. Like if you're having a problem, then you might want to talk about it.

[ September 16, 2003, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: MaureenJanay ]

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msquared
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No No No No.

I am like momentum. I continue doing what I am doing. Why can't she change what she does with out bothering me? [Smile]

msquared

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Youth ap Orem
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I'm not married but I have a girlfriend. A couple days ago she was so mad, she turned on the radio and blasted the music at 2 in the morning, to wake me up to talk. Hope that makes you feel better:) Maybe if you said those four words to your wife before she did, and at an inconvenient time for her, you could use her own tactics against her:)
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Kayla
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I know why she waits till you are almost asleep. She has probably spent, at the very least, an entire week, trying to figure out a solution that doesn't involve you. After racking her brain, she decides that whatever is bothering her, she can't fix on her own. She then spends quite a bit of time trying to decide whether or not it is a deal breaker (something that is bothering her so much, she just can't take it anymore.) Once she decides that she really needs to talk to you about it, she spends days wondering how to bring it up. She works on the correct phrasing, making sure they have all the salient points addressed. Then she waits. She waits for the "right time" or the right mood. She waits to see if she might change her mind, or learn to live with it.

By this point and time, it's been about a month. And you haven't noticed that she's been obsessing about this. Then, at just the wrong time, you do or say something that finally triggers the "I have to talk to him about this before I explode" button. Unfortunately, she has forgotten the perfect phrasing. So, she spends the evening working it out in her head. This time, you notice and ask her what's wrong. She says, "Nothing." That is mostly because she hasn't quite figured out how to bring it up, and partly (and boy, do I hate the women who do this) it is a test to see how much you care.)

So, when you don't push her to "talk" to you, she get miffed. By the time y'all are in bed and ready to go to sleep, she's so steamed, she doesn't want you even in the same room. That is when you hear, from the other side of the bed, "Honey, we need to talk."

Trust me, the alternative isn't pretty. It usually involves a knife or a divorce attorney. [Wink]

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Ralphie
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I enjoy, "Give me my money." That remains a Dodge household favorite.

Other favorites:

"I Need More Luvin!"

"OH NO YOU DIDN'T"

"Clean it up yourself."

"Get off Hatrack? Why?" (That one said with some whiny inflections.)

"Blankies are a democracy."

"Gimme some sugar, baby."

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msquared
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Kayla,

Naw, it couldn't be that. [Smile]

Ralphie,

"Hail to the king"

msquared

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MaureenJanay
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This kills me. I'm so upset about something, but I know that my husband needs his sleep, so I don't wake him up to talk about it. I'm so angry that I can't sleep next to him, but I don't want to be up all night. So I go to sleep on the couch so that we can both get some sleep. THEN he notices that I'm gone and comes to get me, and says that he doesn't want me to sleep on the couch because "that's what people with bad marriages do" or something like that. THEN he will finally talk to me about whatever made me want to sleep on the couch. I wish I could avoid the cycle, but my choices are:

1. talking about it when he's about to go to sleep, which men complain about.

2. crying about it, which apparently constitutes blackmail, ie the "Martian" thread.

3. just going straight to the couch, which he seems to think is manipulation.

Just exactly what do you expect us to do? You come up with all these lovely things that would make your life peachy, but that requires us to repress every urge and natural reaction that we have, and then you would find a problem with THAT too.

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Damien
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I like all the Army of Darkness references....ten points to Ralphie and msquared.
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Olivet
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Usually, if Ron has hurt my feelings, he knows it. He's the one who usually wants to talk about things, while I have a tendency to avoid them altogether. That's why we're a good match-- he won't let me ignore stuff that shouldn't be ignored.

However, if I need to get him to see things my way, I usually start out by showing him how much I value him. I'll make his tea, or fix him something he likes to eat. I'll watch the boys so he and a friend can go to the shooting range. I'll make sure I look good and then do stuff that is usually described in Latin terms.

When we're both relaxed and feeling at ease with each other, one or both of us will apologize or just be in a better frame of mind to talk rationally. See, by that point I've made it clear how much I love him, and vice versa. So we start from a position of strength, both knowing that our relationship is the foundation of our lives.

As upset or angry as we may get, the core of our relationship is never in danger, by mutual agreement. We just have to remind ourselves once in a while.

But then, we've been married almost 11 years. We had several knock down drag outs before we arrived at the point of binding our lives together.

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Head Ditch Digger
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MJ, what I expect of my wife. Laugh and point at me when I do something stupid. Yell at me when I do something wrong, and roll her eyes when I tell a lame joke. I expect my wife to know that I will not leave or storm out because she has a different opinion. I expect her to resolve the problem at the time that I start, not run off crying. Crying is not wrong, just follow it with an explianation so we know when we do things that are stupid.

I also expect that once everything is hashed out that we both make a strong attemp to chenge the offending practice. I also expect that when the disagreement is over it is over.

My wife is very aware that I would prefer her to blow up at me then to keep it bottled for a month. We live by the ideal "Never go to bed mad."

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Storm Saxon
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quote:

1. talking about it when he's about to go to sleep, which men complain about.

2. crying about it, which apparently constitutes blackmail, ie the "Martian" thread.

3. just going straight to the couch, which he seems to think is manipulation.

Just exactly what do you expect us to do?

Um. Talk about it before you're in bed? Not dwell on it after you've talked about it and come to a resolution?
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Yebor1
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Ya know one of the problems I had with my exes was that they wanted to avoid situations and not talk.

My need to talk and their need not to caused a lot of friction and misunderstanding

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Sopwith
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Four word responses to get ya out of the dog house with the wife when she utters the four words of doom:

"But I love you!"

"It was my fault."

"I'll do better tomorrow."

"Bless your lil heart."

"Let me sleep, butthead."

"Awww, that's sweet, dear."

Just pre-emptively strike with any of those and roll right back over to sleep without any explaination. Some of them will leave her smiling at your sweetness. Some will just leave her confused. Some, well, she'll get mad at you for what you just said and forget about the other issue for a few hours.

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ana kata
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Wow, threads like these make me feel very glad sometimes that I've never gotten married.

I know that's wrong of me, but they do. [Smile]

I have a friend whose husband used to perform the same function for me. If ever I was feeling sad or mopey about not being married or having any kids, I would call her up, he'd answer the phone and I'd chat with him briefly before he handed the phone to her. He'd always say something that made me feel simply delighted with my single life. [Smile]

One time I said what are y'all doing and he said in a put-out tone that he was ironing his pants. He said in some families the WOMAN irons the pants and not the man. I laughed and told him it was breaking my heart that he had to iron his own pants. His wife also had a full time job and did 99% of the child care and 80% of the housework and cooking too. The other 20% they hired out. Except for the occasional terrible tragedy like happened this particular day when he had to iron his own pants. Poor guy. [ROFL]

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Head Ditch Digger
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AK-Just to let you know, I iron my own clothes and many times iron my Wife's. I clean the house, do the the dishes and help with the kids. I pay the bills, set the budget. Not all of us believe that their is a division between what a woman and a man should do around the house.
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Storm Saxon
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quote:

Wow, threads like these make me feel very glad sometimes that I've never gotten married.


I second that, and I don't feel bad about feeling that way, neither. [Big Grin]
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Dan_raven
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5 Words men hate to hear worse than the four words:

"Have you considered a Vasectomy?"

3 Words some men treasure, others fear:
"Honey, I'm late."

3 Words men fear:
"Femine Hygene Products"

2 Words that make any relationship work:
"Yes dear."
"I'm Sorry."
"I agree."

1 Word that response to "Honey we need to talk." that will result in a man sleeping on the couch.
"Duh."
"Later."
"Zzzzzzz"

I think that the real problem above is not that men don't want to talk, but the implied insult that what the man holds as important, his sleep, his sports time, etc, the woman ignores for issues she deems as "more important".

Ladies, no man is going to go to work the next day talking about your issues. He may go to work to talk about the play off game. To him it is important.

A man has readied himself for sleep. He has striven to remove all the stress and problems of life to allow himself to sleep, and you come in ready for a deep soul searching discussion. You have prepared for it for a week or a day or for the last few hours. He has not and feels ambushed.

Yes, men need to talk to the women in their lives, but we don't need to be ambushed.

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ana kata
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It seems to me that emailing would be a great way to handle stuff like this. Not even imming, which is too immediate and therefore uncontrolled. Just email all issues. You get to carefully compose it, and read it over to remove things that are unnecessarily hurtful. It can be dealt with at a convenient time, though hopefully within 24 hours. And you get to think about it by yourself before responding. I think if I ever get married I'll see if we can have all our fights by email. [Smile]
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FlyingCow
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You just have to avoid seeing those emails as spam... [Evil]

I am not one of those guys that avoids talking. I like to talk. I talk a lot. Often, I talk more about "relationship" issues than whatever girlfriend I happen to be dating at the time. (currently none)

But the "we need to talk" thing still annoys the hell out of me. And I've used it. It really comes down to "something's not working, and your life will not be the same after this conversation".

This is not a "you really ticked me off today" or a "why do you always have to be that way?" or even a "how many times have we talked about this?".... this is more serious. This isn't a dialogue, but more a monologue... a soliloquoy of sorts. A decision has been made, and made by one of the two parties, and the decision is now being handed down from on high.

My impression of "we need to talk" is that she just reached a dead end, and we're gonna have to change a lot to get her back on a main road. So, life as I had previously known it is effectively over.

Then again, I'v enever been married. Single people's "we need to talk" are different, I'd imagine.

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Chris Bridges
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Don't want to hear it? Pay attention to your wife and drop what you're doing to listen to her when she needs you. If whatever's wrong has built up to the "we need to talk" line, you haven't been paying attention. If she's not the most important thing in your life, you need to reassess.

Ladies, if he listens to you when you really need him, don't abuse the power.

At least one night a week, usually more, we find time to snuggle in bed and talk for awhile. Much more fun than letting things build up. Although I am interested in hearing about Olivet's Latin.

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Nick
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quote:
Don't want to hear it? Pay attention to your wife and drop what you're doing to listen to her when she needs you. If whatever's wrong has built up to the "we need to talk" line, you haven't been paying attention. If she's not the most important thing in your life, you need to reassess.

Ladies, if he listens to you when you really need him, don't abuse the power.

At least one night a week, usually more, we find time to snuggle in bed and talk for awhile. Much more fun than letting things build up.

That's some words of wisdom right there Chris. [Smile]

I do the exact same thing with my girlfriend. How else could we have made it past three years? [Dont Know]

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Hobbes
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quote:
I do the exact same thing with my girlfriend. How else could we have made it past three years?
One word: Mission.

[Razz] [Wink] [Razz]

Hobbes [Smile]

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Hobbes
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I agree with both sides here. I think Chris makes the best point, that it shouldn't just be the women noticing problems and trying to solve them, the men are responsible too. On the other hand, specific to the case of "we have to talk" I think that these words have devloped such a cultural bias, they no longer mean "we have to talk", they mean "you have a problem, and I'm going to fix it". Not that every women means that when they say it, but that's always what is associated with the phrase.

(For more information see FlyingCow's post. [Big Grin] )

Hobbes [Smile]

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MaureenJanay
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quote:
Talk about it before you're in bed? Not dwell on it after you've talked about it and come to a resolution?
I'm not really concerned about coming up with a resolution without my husband's opinion. Usually, when I'm upset about it and I know Jes has no clue, I'll mention it to him as soon as I think of it, no matter when that is. (Unless he's cartooning...see? I do respect times he views as important.) But if he's equally annoyed at me, then I don't see why I should have to be the one to always break the ice. On those nights, I feel like he's avoiding me and he goes to sleep to shut me out. By the way, this is true, he does. So on those occasions, I do bring it up before bed, but only because of what has been said in this thread...you shouldn't go to bed angry.

It's not my fault that he can sleep angry and I can't. I find it annoying when he goes to sleep without resolving something, even when he knows I won't be able to sleep. So see? It's not a question of stewing until I can't take it anymore. It's a question of giving him a chance to be the first to say something, because it gets kind of tiring that it's ALWAYS me.

quote:
MJ, what I expect of my wife. Laugh and point at me when I do something stupid. Yell at me when I do something wrong, and roll her eyes when I tell a lame joke. I expect my wife to know that I will not leave or storm out because she has a different opinion. I expect her to resolve the problem at the time that I start, not run off crying. Crying is not wrong, just follow it with an explianation so we know when we do things that are stupid.

I also expect that once everything is hashed out that we both make a strong attemp to chenge the offending practice. I also expect that when the disagreement is over it is over.

By the way, I do all of this, or at least I try. [Smile]

BY THE WAY I have one more point to add to the first quote. For some of us, bed time is the only time we get our husband's undivided attention. You don't want to talk after work, because you're tired. You don't want to talk much later, because you just want to relax. You don't want to talk during football...I mean...it's FOOTBALL. (My husband doesn't watch...just an example.) What does keeping your marriage healthy have in comparison with THAT? When exactly are we supposed to talk? When was the last time you sat your significant other down and said, "How are you, dear? Is there anything you'd like to talk about or share?" I mean, come on. I've got a pretty sensitive husband, so if I have trouble, imagine how the poor ladies out there are doing with insensitive husbands?

[ September 16, 2003, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: MaureenJanay ]

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unohoo
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The phrase should probably be, "I have to talk (to you)." This is my POV, as a woman who has in the past had problems about saying what is bothering me. I've had to learn to wait until I can be rational about my feelings (a bit of an oxymoron there [Razz] ) and be as precise as I can be about what ever is bothering me. Oh, and I usually ask if it is a good time to talk because I don't want to interrupt something where I won't get my mate's undivided attention.
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Bob the Lawyer
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See, the frightening thing about the "we need to talk" line has already been pointed out. The man *knows* she's been hashing over this for a long time, and he's about to hear weeks and weeks worth of carefully thought out arguments and well thought through opinions. He may get 30 seconds. What's more, she's going to get REAL emotional REAL fast. It's terrifying, one false step can take hours/days/weeks to repair. Can you blame them for being defensive?

That's not to say that men shouldn't bring things up too, or any other judgement. That's just what flies through my mind when I hear those words.

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Polemarch
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What drives me nuts is that conversations of this nature (Now, i'm not talking strictly about romantic relationships, since I lack sufficient experience in this realm; I get this kind of thing from my mother, and I think I can be farely safe in assuming that grown men get yelled at about certian things as much as I do) is that the problem that the woman has often been brooding over is one that the man hasn't noticed, and that had she mentioned it when it first started bothering her, it might not have become a problem in the first place. We're not psycic, and very few of us are in tune enough with a women's psyche to notice many of the things that drive them off the wall. Every time I get yelled at for something I didn't even realize was a problem I'm just angry that she didn't tell it to me earlier, when I could have corrected it with less stress to both parties.

Now, I'm not sure if this really applies here, but I did because I can very easily see this happening to other guys like me- we don't notice something, and then get hell for it.

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Maethoriell
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That's pure fun.
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Nick
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quote:
we don't notice something, and then get hell for it.
My girlfriend learned LONG ago that little "hints" dropped here or there just don't fly with me. I'm an observant person when it comes to most things, but I can't read a person like a book. I know SOME--not all--women expect their husbands to just know, and I think that is ridiculous.
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Anna
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Chris [Kiss]
That's great .

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Celtic Flame
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The trick to all of this is to prevent her from ever having a reason to say, "We need to talk".

Refer to Chris' last post to see what I mean.

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Noemon
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Anybody else think that Olivet must be at least part Bonobo? That's exactly how they deal with situations like this, I've read.
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Boothby171
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Four words:

"I think I'm pregnant"

"That was my sister"

"Is Greg with you?"

"The police called today"

Five Words:

"I'm going to my mothers"

"I spoke with my sister"

"When were you in Ecuador?"

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Storm Saxon
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Reading this thread, one might think that women need to talk about things more than men. While generalizations are just that and never all encompassing, is there any truth to this?
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Olivet
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Er, Bonobo?
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Noemon
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Yeah, you know, Bonobo chimpanzees. They're our closest relatives, and are also pretty much the most sexually active primates in existance. They commonly use sex to diffuse stressful situations.

[ September 17, 2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]

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Storm Saxon
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Edit: Heh. Never mind.

[ September 17, 2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Storm Saxon ]

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Olivet
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Oh, yeah. That's me alright. I'm definitely of the Make Love Not War variety. Or, maybe the Make Love and War variety. Or the All's Fair in Love and War variety. [Smile]

I love Ron with all my heart. It may sound manipulative, but both of us know he'll forgive me almost anything when faced with a creative erotic display. [Big Grin]

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odouls268
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"Or they could never say it.

They could never talk about it. When something bugs them, they could just hold it all in"

FINALLY! one of you women gets it!
[Razz]

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odouls268
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jk. I'm a pig, but I'm not THAT bad.

er..intentionally, that is.

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