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Author Topic: First day of school: take two. (UPDATED!)
Icarus
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Today was Mango's first day of school, again.

Back when Brettly10 started his Kid tales from proud Parents thread, my girls were getting ready to enter kindergarten. I mentioned that I was nervous.

I understated things.

Most of you know that Mango and Banana are adopted. They were adopted not from a birth mother, nor from Russia or Asia or someplace, but from DCF custody right here in the US. They had entered foster care immediately after birth, and waited a year and a half to find an adoptive home. Their birth parents were in a physically abusive relationship. DCF didn't tell me how that lead to the children being taken away immediately after childbirth, so I am left to speculate. The girls were born five weeks premature, and so I wonder if their fighting didn't somehow cause the premature childbirth. That's just about he only scenario I can think of that fits the facts. Once the girls were in foster care, the birth parents had plenty of opportunities to change their lives and get "their" children back, but they did not follow through on the steps they were supposed to follow. Their loss was our gain.

Like virtually all children in DCF custody, the girls were classified as special needs kids. There aren't a whole lot of good ways to end up in foster care, so it's not surprising that wards of the state often carry around a lot of problems. When we adopted the girls, we knew they had what seemed at the time to be a pretty bad case of asthma (it isn't; they outgrew the worst of it), and recent testing had shown some developmental delays. It's hard to measure the IQ of a one-year-old, so it was hard to know just how delayed. It was possible they were retarded, though I didn't think so, or it was possible the delays would be no big deal.

When we got the girls, I took family leave from work to bond with them, and also to take them to speech and physical therapy. Eventually, I had to return to work, though, and therapy ended. We put the girls in preschool.

We thought that if we gave them a good home with a lot of positive stimulus, we would close the gap, and they would catch up to where they were supposed to be. So far, we haven't reached that point yet.

Mango was always a bit more ornery than Banana. She was just a little less interested in pleasing adults and more interested in getting her way right now. No big deal, though. That was just our lot.

At preschool, they've both always been the smallest in the class. I also saw on a pretty regular basis at birthday parties, or when I went to pick the girls up, that their age peers were able to do stuff that they couldn't do yet. The other kids had a greater vocabulary and were more articulate, they could follow directions better, and some were even starting to learn how to write. That's fine. It's not important to us to have our kids be at the top of the class. We just want them to grow into good people, happy people, independent people.

It doesn't mean I'm not self-conscious about it, though.

Our kids are generally well-behaved around us--I know that a couple of you have seen my kids have melt-downs, but all kids have melt-downs from time to time. Generally speaking, they are polite, obedient, and pleasant to be around. At least, we think so. And judging from the complements they often receive for their behavior in public, we're not the only ones.

Anyway, a day or two before kindergarten was to begin, the school had a meet and greet. Cor and I were back at work, but I took off a few hours to go and see where my daughters would be going to school. As I walked around their classrooms, I was struck with a strong foreboding. I saw these neat little seats with each child's name attached to a corresponding desk, and bulletin boards displaying the curriculum that would soon be covered. And I thought, Man! This is nothing like preschool! At preschool they had "centers," and a great degree of freedom of motion. Here, it was plain that each child would be expected to remain at her desk and work a lot of the time. It all seemed so . . . academic!

I wasn't nervous.

I was afraid.

It seems absurd as I type it: stressing over kindergarten. But I could see that a new threshhold of development was going to be expected here, and I was not at all sure my kids were ready.

In fact, they are not.

Banana can't pay attention for as long as they want her to. Part of it, no doubt, stems from not being able to do all that they expect of her. Periodically, she gets up and wanders about the room, and then she sits back down and tries a little more. This is OK. She is not disrupting anyone, and the teacher is willing to put up with this behavior. She may not be able to do what the other kids do, but by her own standards, she is thriving. She is generally happy. She can recognize all of the letters of the alphabet (when she's not too tired!), and she has learned (finally!) to write her own name.

Mango has not had such a good time of it. She has never been patient enough to roll with it when she is frustrated, and boy has she been frustrated. In the first month of school, she has pitched intense tantrums, thrown objects, and kicked and hit faculty and staff members. Several times in the last month, she has received disciplinary referrals and even been suspended a couple of times (!). (I was never suspended in all of my schooling, but my five-year-old has! I feel like such a geek!) At first I thought this was an outrageously inappropriate way to deal with a kindergartener, but I have since come to realize they were trying to create a paper trail.

It hasn't only been hard on Mango. Cor teaches in the middle school on the same campus. For the first week or two, the administration thought nothing about calling her out of her own class to come deal with her kid. We (but especially Cor) have also had to deal with the looks we feel like we get from the elementary teachers whom we knew first as colleagues. We can't help but feel judged: Why does your kid behave this way? What kind of incompetent parent are you? A week or two ago a friend of ours was walking by when he saw a clump of elementary teachers talking in the hallway. Coincidentally, Banana walked by, and he (our adult friend) saw one of the teachers gesture toward her disdainfully and say "That's the one." [Mad] When you're gossiping about and judging kids, at least get the right freaking one! [Mad]

Same goes for the other parents of kindergarteners, when it comes time to drop off or pick up our kids. Some of those same parents have older kids in the middle or high school. What kind of teacher can you possibly be, if your own kid is so out of control? Apparently, several parents have been in to speak with administrators at the shool, wanting to know what they are going to do about the situation. At least one of them has contacted us, calling us at home, sending Cor e-mail at an (out of date) work e-mail address, and leaving a package on our door. Her cover letter on the packet expressed concern that her daughter was learning negative behaviors from mine. How nice. I wonder where my daughter learned them from? The packet was information for parents on how to help a child with Reactive Attachment Disorder. This homemaker is evidently a gifted psychologist, if she can diagnose my child without having actually interacted with her. I wonder what her copayments would be?

I understand where the parents are coming from. My daughter is disrupting the learning environment pretty thoroughly, and they are concerned for their own children. But what they seemed to want (failing of course, for me to teach my child to control herself better) was for us to simply remove our daughter. Well sure, that fixes their problem right now. But my daughter, disruptive or not, delayed or not, deserves and is entitled to an education. And failing to give it to her now would only result in a repetition of this scene next year.

Obviously, the solution to their problem and ours is for Mango to be placed in a setting capable of coping with her difficulties, but the problem is that, in a public school, at least, that's not a matter of snapping your fingers and wishing it so. Observations need to take place, testing needs to be done, and paperwork must be filled out. And Mango needed to be in school for any of that to happen. So the only way these parents were going to get what they needed, short of us deciding to ignore our own daughter's educational needs, was, perhaps ironically, for her to be in school.

It got to the point, though, where we were keeping her home on each day that we had not been specifically told there would be a psychologist or a district official or whatever to observe her. We just couldn't take the dirty looks and the stress of waiting to find out what atrocity she had committed each day. We also did not want to be approached in person by any concerned parents. We were, as much as possible, in hiding.

The judging thing is especially difficult to deal with. I hope that doesn't seem selfish or narcissistic, but we already know how Mango feels. At least she has an outlet! When she feels frustrated, she screams and throws things--what can we do? When we adopted the girls, we were setting out to do a good thing: to give a home to two kids who needed one. To give them love and a place to belong. Not that we were expecting the thanks of a grateful nation or anything, but we thought we were doing something honorable. Now we are regarded as that most dishonorable and despicable of specimens: bad parents.

And this is a chip on my shoulder because part of me believes it's true. I was always regarded as a great nurterer, and as being great with kids. I used to volunteer with the United Way, tutoring and as a Big Brother, and I was a head counselor at a sleep-away camp. They gave me the youngest, neediest kids, because I was allegedly so good with kids. I was told by my bosses that the group I was in charge of had traditionally been the one to cause the most headaches for the administration, what with homesickness, bedwetting, and general winge-iness (sp?), but for the two years I was their head counselor, the operation ran smoothly and the kids were happy. Heck, thinking I was a good nurterer and good with kids is what led me to become a teacher! So what the hell happened?! I don't feel particularly nurturing, and I sure as heck don't feel successful. This is messing with my self-image.

We've been very unhappy these past few weeks. I haven't been able do any work at home, and I haven't been able to cook either (and we sure can't afford all the take-out we've been getting!) I've been coming home, playing with the kids before and after dinner (thankfully, I haven't indulged my depression to the point of neglecting that), and then moping the rest of the night. The house has gotten cluttered as I've made a mess and been too depressed to clean it up. I've been staying up late. Ironically, at school has been the one place where I've been able to put this out of my mind. Some part of me knows that I can't survive in my career if I let myself be brought down, and so for the past month, I've been on. I have never in my career been a better classroom teacher than I am right now. [Dont Know] Go figure.

So last Friday we had our second IEP meeting. Because of the crisis this has been, I know they streamlined the process for us. While we are still navigating the sea of insurance details and paperwork and appointments that is our medical system, hoping to get a professional evaluation of Mango and perhaps some help, we already have the district's verdict. They have labeled her emotionally handicapped and transferred her to an EH unit in a different school, twenty or thirty minutes across town. Truly, I saw this coming. And, right now at least, it's what we need. It solves the school's problem, and so it gets them off our backs. It solves the other parents' problem, and so it gets them off our backs. This setting will also be equipped and prepared to deal with her outbursts, so we won't constantly have to apologize for her behavior.

This can even address the root problem: the class size is small enough (7 students at peak times, fewer at other times of the day, with two teachers in the classroom) that Mango can hopefully receive some education at her level, rather than feeling frustrated as people ask her to copy words when she hasn't even learned how to draw letters! Hopefully she will be less frustrated now. And hopefully they can succeed where we have failed, and teach her more appropriate strategies for dealing with her frustration.

And yet . . .

Even though I expected it, when I heard the EH verdict come down, I almost lost it. I had to look off to avoid losing control in front of the eleven district employees whom I did not know who had assembled to gang--excuse me, to help us see to our daughter's needs.

Today was Mango's second first day of school. We've had to walk a fine line as we spin this for our two daughters. Banana is concerned for Mango; she doesn't want her to be lonely and unhappy. We don't want her to see this as punishment for Mango. And yet, we also don't want her to end up here, so we don't want to make it sound too nice! If this school is so nice, I want to go! We haven't been entirely successful in our spin-mastering either: Banana already asked us, "When I'm naughty I'll go there too?" [Frown] [Embarrassed]

Today, after Mango got home--as far as we can tell it was a good day--we saw that we had received a supply list. I already ranted about this practice in Zan's School Fundraisers thread. Well, the new school doesn't care that I spent maybe $80 to outfit Mango's old classroom. They want their stuff! So tonight I went shopping at Walmart. We're still recovering from 10 weeks without a paycheck over the summer, and back to school expenses from last month, and this unexpected funeral trip to California we just took, and here I am spending another $80 or so at Walmart. And once again almost crying. Somehow, laying out all this money for stuff I already bought makes it all seem especially tangible. I really am not that materialistic; I think it's a symbolic thing. But it really bothered me, irrationally, to be buying these things again.

Is this what everyone goes through when their kid gets a label slapped on them?

So anyway, what's the point?

Why have I written this? Why have I exposed for all to see my many inadequacies?

Well, it's not really looking for pity (although I won't turn down hugs). And it's not really looking for advice, though I won't turn down any of that either. And it's not to explain why I've been pissy lately on the 'Rack, though I apologize for that. I guess mostly it's just to get it off of my chest. I mean, between all of the discussion and games that go on here, there's room for a little venting, right?

This is much more than any sane person would want to read (unless you're simply OC like I am). If this thread just falls off the front page unremarked, I guess I'll feel a little foolish, but I think expressing myself here will still have been of benefit, because the past three hours I've spent typing this have been kind of like a meditation. I've run through all of my feelings in my mind and put them in some kind of order.

Hatrack: When You Can't Afford Therapy

So school apparently went well today.

This weekend and yesterday I got a lot of grading done at home.

This weekend we also cleaned up the mess we had allow to grow while we were too lethargic to do anything.

Tonight I cooked for the first time in weeks.

And now I'm going to bed.

[Sleep]

[ November 24, 2003, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: Icarus ]

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Mr.Funny
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(((((Icarus))))) (((((Cor)))))
There. Now it is not unremarked [Wink]

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Zotto!
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[Frown]

(((Icarus and his family)))

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Cecily
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(((Icarus and Cor))) I read every word. Thanks for sharing it with us and I'm glad you got it off your chest.

Hang in there. I know your kids know that you love them both...and that's the mark of a good parent. [Group Hug]

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rivka
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Oh, Ick! [Frown] (((((Icarus & Cor & Mango & Banana)))))

That sounds like an incredibly painful experience for all of you. I hope this new school works out well, and the adjustment is an painless as possible.

And [Taunt] to all the judging parents. I've tasted a bit of that myself. Really hard not accept those judgments as true.

I believe you guys are GREAT parents. It is clear to me that you two care, a LOT. You are displaying a lot of grace in a very difficult situation. Good for you! *applauds*

I'm glad things are looking up. I hope they continue to do so.

And I know that any future challenges will be met with at least as much strength.

What doesn't kill us makes us stronger, neh? (I really really hope so -- otherwise I, for one, would like a rewind on part of my life. [Wink] )

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littlemissattitude
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((((((Icarus, Cor, Mango, Banana))))))

I, too, read every word of your post. I don't have any advice, sage or otherwise, to contribute as I'm not a parent. I do wish I could have some choice words with all of those judgmental ... um, maybe I'd best not finish that particular thought. It's late, and my vocabulary slips a bit when I'm tired. And as for those school employees in the hall: haven't they ever heard of professional behavior? I wasn't aware that it was ethical for school employees to have that sort of conversation, identifying who they were discussing, especially in public. I have one word for them: confidentiality. Sheesh.

As for your ability as a parent, Icarus, if you weren't a good parent you wouldn't be so torn up over this. Just remember that we all love you and are keeping you in our thoughts.

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Troubadour
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(((Icaraus & Cor)))))
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Kama
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[Kiss]

You are the most wonderful dad, and Cor is the most wonderful mom.

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Beren One Hand
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My parents held me back half a grade when I was little (I think in the first grade). They said I wasn't interacting with the other kids and had a hard time following the teacher.

I think they made the right choice. Kids should be grouped with other kids who are at the same development level, not necessarily the same age level. If my parents had forced me to keep up with the other kids, I would've been discouraged, and quite possibly disruptive because I would act out in frustration.

I would like to think I turned out fine (went to college and grad school). I didn't lose confidence in myself because of it, mainly because my parents never made a big deal about it. [Smile]

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Tristan
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I was a little surprised at your description of kindergarten, Icarus. Is it normal in the US for children at the age of five to be expected to conform to such diciplined studies? I am not sure if I agree that this would be a wise thing to do generally, and I am convinced that there are many children that would not be ready for it. It certainly appears from your description as if your Mango would be among those that would benefit from a more leisurely introduction to formal schooling. Hopefully the EH unit will provide what she need, but if not, perhaps you should consider looking into some alternative pedagogical school such as Waldorf or Montessori.

In any case, good luck Icarus. I admire your courage and dedication as a parent. And I wouldn't give up hope that Banana and Mango will eventually catch up with their peers. They are still very young and I've had more than one friend who were behind as a kid but got in his or her stride as a teenager. Just let them find their own pace and don't push them more than they are ready for (which I'm sure you don't [Smile] ).

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mackillian
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Icky,

Mango and Banana are the sort of kids I work with. Many of them, while labeled EH, when given the individualized attention in smaller classrooms, eventually catch up and mainstream back into regular classrooms.

Maybe I'm just blind to the labels. I don't see EH as a be-all, end-all. I see it as a way to facilitate learning and treat the symptoms, so that a kid has all the chances in the world of growing up to be a happy, healthy, well-adjusted adult.

I doubt either Mango or Banana has reative attachment disorder, as they've been with you and Cor for basically the entirety of their lives. Tell that lady to stuff it and get a degree before diagnosing kids.

I hate it when parents are blamed immediately for kids' negative behavior. Sometimes, you can be the best parent in the world, and your kid still misbehaves. You know what? That is perfectly normal. Besides, I don't remember such a strictly academic environment in my kindergarten class.

And I was a demon. [Evil]

*thinks*

You know, if I were a kid in today's school system, I'd get coded as EH. It pretty much happens automatically with any kind of psychiatric diagnosis. AD/HD kids? EH. Depression, Bipolar? EH. Schizoaffective? EH. Disruptive Behavior Not Otherwise Specified? EH.

Have you taken Mango and Banana to a pediatric psychiatrist? With and IEP coding Mango as EH, one might come in handy to figure out which set of symptoms Mango might (or might not!) have, and how to treat it early and effectively.

Anyway.

Let me know if you have any questions. It's part of what I do to refer people to services. ; [Smile]

And give 'em hugs, even if I suck at them myself. [Wink]

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Farmgirl
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((((Icarus))))

My thoughts and prayers and with you.

I also have one "labeled" kid who never quite "fit in" the rigid traditional school setting. And after several attempts are trying to fit his square peg into the round hole, I quit.

We went to homeschooling, where I could bond with him and his learning style and allow him the freedom to learn without the rigid structure killing his learning desire.

And yes, I was (am) a single parent, working full-time AND homeschooling. His grandmother would be with him during the day, and we would work on "school" together after I got home from work (since he had a mostly second-shift internal clock anyway).

He's a teenager now, and we have worked through the worst of it. Now he takes a correspondence school for high school and is more self-motivated than those early years.

Hang in there - whatever you decide to do -- don't let others ever tell you that they know better than you what is best for your child.

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Noemon
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((Icarus))

quote:
Why have I written this? Why have I exposed for all to see my many inadequacies?
Why? Because it's cathartic to unburden yourself to friends, and you have many, many friends here.

The thing is, it doesn't read to me as though you've exposed inadequacies. You're a parent, doing the best you can with a difficult situation, that's all. From your description of the situation, I can't imagine what more you could be doing than what you are.

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BannaOj
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((Icarus)) ((Cor)) ((Banana)) ((Mango))

AJ

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Kayla
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Icky, Cor, Mango, Banana,

[Group Hug]

Icky, I know what you are going through with the teachers and parents at your school. I didn't have that same problem from the teachers, (though one did basically call me crazy to my face, but it was so sweet when he was proven wrong by his own tests [Big Grin] ) but I deal with it from my family.

One time, my sister, with 2 perfect boys, said in front of a group of my mothers friends, "Isn't it funny how everyone thought Kayla would be the great mother and I'm the one with great kids?" Gee, sis, does that mean I'm a bad mother?

My parents and brother haven't been quite so obnoxious about it, but the subtle slams are there all the same. Hints on what I "should" be doing never end.

So, I feel your pain. Of course, my poor child rearing skills are only the latest in a long line of disappointments and embarrassments for my family. But it still really hurts when it is your child they are slamming. [Frown] Like if I'd been a better parent, my child wouldn't be autistic.

How old were the girls when you adopted them? I thought they were over a year old, but I noticed mack mentioned they'd been with you nearly the entire lives.

Also, did you get the school supplies back from the first kindergarten? I'd march in there and demand them all back. Snaky bastards, trying to steal your Kleenex and Crayolas. (I have anger issues with schools and doctors, have you noticed? Okay, the list is much longer than that, but those two are pretty much at the top of my list. [Wink] )

Anyway, [Group Hug]

If you need anything, e-mail me. If you get a more specific diagnosis and have questions, I'm pretty up-to-date on different types of autism and pervasive developmental delays and how the school system will try to do as little as possible. Getting her into the EH school sounds wonderful. At least they won't ignore the problems like they did with my son.

[ September 17, 2003, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Kayla ]

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Danzig
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(((Icarus and Cor)))
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Sweet William
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(((((Icarus)))))

Why do they have to go to school right now?

My daughter is disrupting the learning environment pretty thoroughly...

But my daughter, disruptive or not, delayed or not, deserves and is entitled to an education. And failing to give it to her now would only result in a repetition of this scene next year.

Are you absolutely sure that this scene will repeat itself next year?

It just seems like she's not ready to be in school right now. Are you absolutely sure that she won't be more ready a year from now?

I know that every parent wants their child to stick to the "you're five, get to kindergarten" rule. But that doesn't work for every kid.

My sister has two boys with late (August) birthdays. The first one went to school at five. He has been behind from day one. He has been disruptive with a bad attitude for his entire school career (7 years). At the end of the school year, he finally catches up emotionally, academically, etc. with where he should have been to start the year off. He should have waited a year.

The second boy waited a year and went to kindergarten at six. At five, he was as unprepared for kindergarten as Mango appears to be. He's been at the top of his class every year, and has a fantastic attitude.

Sure, this story is anecdotal.

But it just feels to me like you are trying to meet some type of ideal, rather than giving the girls an extra year of preschool and letting them be more ready for kindergarten next year.

If Mango is starting out "behind," she's not going to catch up. I have had family members that were put in "resource" to "catch up" and they never even graduated from high school.

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katharina
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(((((Icarus and Cor))))))

Hatrack: Better than therepy.

It sounds like you are doing everything you can.

I can't stop thinking about how incredibly lucky and blessed Mango and Banana are to have you y'all as their parents.

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Storm Saxon
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Your children are very lucky that they have parents who care so much, Icarus. That you are bothered so much by this reflects very well on you. As inadequate as it is a description of you, let me just say that you're a good joe. If only there were a million more like you. [Smile]

That said, have you thought about looking for some kind of support group? Maybe it would be helpful if you could talk to other parents who are going through something like you're going through?

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Bokonon
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I have an early September birthday. For the first 2 weeks of kindergarten, I was 4. The kindergarten I went to seemed to be geared a little lower than yours (we were doing letters and numbers the first month; there was a play zone and stuff, and we had a fair amount of fun time, even though kindergarten was only half a day), but I was labeled (fairly so, I'd bet) as developmentally immature. I don't think I threw tantrums, rather I cried a lot at things the other kids didn't.

So what happened?

I went to a wonderful (and now defunct) program called Readiness. Essentially, after kindergarten, they sent me to Grade .5. It was full day, I believe, and a bit more structured. It meant that I was rather old for all my subsequent grades, but I was also fully prepared.

Now you may not have that option; however, I think that even holding back a kid is fine, if they are unable to cope with their current grade.

I wish your family luck, Icarus, in whatever method you decide. You've already proven yourself a loving caring set of parents, and that puts you far ahead of the game right from the start!

-Bok

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jeniwren
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Geez louise. It's like something out of a Torey Hayden book (not the children, the administrative nightmare).

First, it sounds like your district has been sucked into the stupidity of academic kindergarten. It used to be that kindergarten was the year to get kids used to being in a classroom setting. There were centers and cooking time, and they tried to have all the letters, first 10 numbers, and colors taught by the end of the year. Mostly, it was just a year to get used to institutionalized learning. Now, however, with increased pressure on school performance, districts are pushing academics at younger and younger ages. The very idea that kindergarteners would have to have their own desk and sit quietly by themselves to work just makes me shudder. Some kids would do okay in that environment, but I can think of a whole bunch who wouldn't. That's a first grade thing. Grrr.

There's so much about what you wrote that makes me want to scream. It sounds to me like the teacher didn't handle Mango's frustration very well. The whole gossip in the hallway scenario makes me want to scream. Implying that you are not a good parent because your child is struggling is just AAARGH. [Wall Bash] I have been trying to find an article I read a while back from a mother who struggled with her son's schools through his difficulties. She eventually ended up running for the school board to get things changed. She described how at one point she was called to a meeting of 6 school people to talk about her son -- all while he was sitting there listening to their condemnation. I recall that when she got there, she asked her son out into the hallway, gave him a book to read, then went back in, closed the door and politely, professionally, ripped them up one side and down the other. I couldn't find the article. Sorry...if I do, I'll link to it. It was great.

I only spent an afternoon with your family, but truly, you're very good parents. Your girls are active, inquisitive, and fun. They need clear, consistent boundaries (like all kids do), and you and Cor have given that to them beautifully. You are a GOOD dad, and it's obvious that you are, just by the depth of concern you have for the situation.

I wish I had some solutions for you. It's such a sucky situation. (((Icarus and Cor, Banana and especially Mango)))

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MacBeth
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My heart goes out to you...as another parent I would hate to have to go through the same set of circumstances you have. I wish there was something else to add. But I would only be echoing the sentiments of everyone else who has posted before me. [Group Hug]
Be strong

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jexx
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(((Cor and Icarus and girlies)))

My Christopher is also having a tough time in Kindergarten, and I feel like the bad mommy of the year.I was getting notes home every day ("Christopher cried and asked to go home several times today", "Christopher is disruptive during meeting time", "Christopher is not participating during play time") the first week and a half, and I talked to his teacher one day after school. Well, I just don't like her. Christopher needed a little time to get used to school after a long, wild summer, I think. He's much better now, but I still get the occasional note about his attention span, etc. He's FIVE! What kind of attention span does she want him to have??? Grrr.

Anyway, that's not helpful to you. I don't have any good advice, but other people in this thread do, and I hope you read it. All I have is the knowledge that you are the best parents that Mango and Banana could hope for, and no matter what happens, they know that they are loved. That's so wonderful!

[Frown]

I wish I could be helpful.

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Ela
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((Hugs Icarus and Cor))

Icky, just because you have a child who is having a behavior problem, that does not make you and Cor bad parents. You are judging yourself very harshly. You are not personally responsible for every behavior of your children. Your children have their own personalities, and behaviors that can develop regardless of the fine parenting I am sure you and Cor are giving them.

I also agree with those who stated above that your children's school seems to be quite regimented for kindergarten. I know that the kindergarten that my kids went to was not as regimented, and children had more freedom to move around the classroom. Not all children adapt quickly and easily to sitting at a desk all day and learning.

Hang in there, and I hope things start working out better for you and your children.

**Ela**

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blacwolve
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((((Icarus))))
((((Cor))))
((((Mango))))
((((Banana))))

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ginette
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(((((Icarus,Cor,Banana,Mango)))))

First I want to say I agree with all the others in this thread: You are a wonderful dad Icarus, of course you are! The way what happened affects you shows it.

I know very little about behaviour problems in little children, but it seems to me the REAL problems with Mango started when she went to that school. So this EH label seems a bit strange to me. Maybe an adopted child with experiences as a baby you know little of is likely to develop EH and that is the reason she got this label? Or in other words do you think it likely she would have been labelled like that were she not adopted but your own child?

In our country, the 4 and 5 year old children only play at school, they will not get any lessons in writing or reading or calculus. Next, it happens quite often that a child once it is 6 years old and theoretically ready to go to the 'real' school, will stay in this playing class for one more year if the teachers think this wise regarding the child's emotional development. So I agree with Tristan about other systems like Montesori.
But having her go to this other school with small classes might very well be a good solution. I would say this depends also on the problems the other children in her class have? Do you know something about that? I mean, it must be important for Mango to be with kids she feels comfortable with.

Just some thoughts. Hang in Icarus, I am sure everything will work out fine for Mango and Banana with you and Cor as parents!

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Ralphie
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Man, Joe - you are one kick-ass dad.

You're talking about a world I vaguely remember as a youth, and have absolutely no experience with as an adult, so I'm pretty much blinking at the screen without much to really say. But I would like to mention that whenever you talk about your girls, I think: damn. We need so many more people on the planet like you and Cor. SO MANY MORE. And I can't do anything but feel warm-fuzzies for your whole family, despite the things that trouble you.

And, of course, please keep us posted on how things are going. I want very much for this to have a happy ending.

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Hobbes
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(((((((((((((((((((((Icarus)))))))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((((((((Cor)))))))))))))))))))))

My advice is that you are both wonderful people and that whatever you do tends to be smarter, kinder, and just generally righter than what everyone else does.

Hobbes [Smile]

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littlemissattitude
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quote:
It used to be that kindergarten was the year to get kids used to being in a classroom setting. There were centers and cooking time, and they tried to have all the letters, first 10 numbers, and colors taught by the end of the year.
This is exactly the kind of kindergarten I attended. Although I don't see anything wrong with introducing some academics in kindergarten, I don't think sitting at a desk all day is what five-year-olds need to be doing.
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jeniwren
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lma, I don't object to a *little* bit of academics. Most kids would find just learning the alphabet and rudimentaries of reading, well...boring. Because they already know how when they start school. But I had a friend who taught Kindergarten in inner city Detroit -- some of her kids had never even held a crayon, didn't know their colors, didn't recognize any letters. She was hard pressed just to get them to know the very basics by the end of the school year.

Obviously that's not the case here, but boy I wonder how may kids get pidgeonholed into inappropriate boxes just because they aren't ready for a structured academic environment. At age 5. Geez.

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Icarus
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OK, I just spent the last two hours compiling a detailed response. I responded to each and every person who posted here. I poured my heart into it. My stupid computer just ate it. [Wall Bash] I want to cry.

Thank you for all your kind words, many of you make good points, I agree about the academic thing, yadda yadda yadda. I can't write this again.

I quit.

((((Hatrack))))

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jexx
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Aww, Icky. *pat*pat* I hate when the puter eats my replies. I'm sure everyone understands.

(((Icarus et Famille)))

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JaneX
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(((((Icky)))))
(((((Cor)))))
(((((Mango)))))
(((((Banana)))))

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Ophelia
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(((((Icky)))))
(((((Cor)))))
(((((Banana)))))
((((((((((Mango))))))))))

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littlemissattitude
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(((Icarus))) We know.

It's that thing about computers...they only eat the really important stuff.

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dkw
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(((Icarus, Cor, Mango, Banana)))

Icky, I know that you are an awesome father. I hope the new school works out well. And although this has already been said, it can't be said too many times -- this is not your fault, you didn't reveal any inadequacies, and your post makes me respect you more than ever.

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Ela
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Did you get my email, Icky?
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Jenny Gardener
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Icarus,

I'm sorry your little ones had to experience some of the worst of what school has to offer. I hope you all find a safe place to learn and grow. I don't know why some people think they need to tell you how to raise your kids and meet your family's needs. You care. That's what will make the most difference in the end. You will learn as much as you can and do whatever it takes to help your girls. That's all anyone could ask of you. And I'm sure your kids will blossom in their own good time. Keep taking good care.

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Bob_Scopatz
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You know what I think of you and Cor as parents. And what I think of this whole school and the "other parents" situation.

I just wanted to come in and add that I admire you all so much and I'm glad that the girls have two adults like you and Cor to raise them.

-Bob

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Icarus
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It's been about three weeks since Mango started in the EH unit. Things seem to be going well.

Meeting the bus that takes her to and from school each morning and afternoon is a hardship, because it doesn't leave us much time to get to work, or much time to get home from work. But hey, that's the way it is.

The first week, Mango got sent to the "Blue Room" three out of four days. The Blue Room is a room where they send kids who are having a melt-down. It's a room about the size of a large walk-in closet with padded blue walls. Kids are sent here so they can't hurt themselves or anybody else. It's not confinement or anything like that, because it has an open entrance with an administrator sitting right outside, so get any draconian pictures out of your head. It's just a place where a tantruming child can safely get it out of his or her system.

The second week, she got sent there maybe once.

This week, she did not get sent to the Blue Room.

She has been coming home very happy every day, because there is daily communication between the teacher and us, and she knows we will be happy when she gets home, and she knows we will play with her and reward her for being good.

The school and I have been working with her letters and with what I can only call "pre-math" skills, so I know that this side of her education is not being neglected. They have also been working on her spoken communication skills, as per her IEP. I can't say whether the old environment or the new one is better academically, but certainly no learning could take place until her behavior issues were under control.

Now that she has stabilized, we wonder what the differences are between her day at the new school and at the old one. The only difference we can see is that she spends her whole day with the same two teachers. She doesn't travel for spanish, art, and PE, like she did in her old school, and she eats lunch in her classroom instead of in the cafeteria. This is helpful for her, because Mango doesn't deal too well with changes in her routine.

If you looked at her now, happy, no tantrums, no violence . . . you wouldn't think she was an "emotionally handicapped" child. At least, that would be the last thing that would occur to me. I imagine that the staff in the EH program must be wondering to some extent what the heck she is doing there.

I can't help but wonder, then . . . if the old school had been better equipped to ease hher transition, would any of this have been necessary at all? Seeing that her worst troubles came when she had to travel across campus, couldn't it have been possible to structure her day so that she didn't have to switch classrooms? So that she had a smaller number of different teachers/aides? Clearly she was the worst, but was she the only student who would have benefitted from this? When she became enraged at her old school, they took her to the office. Because they were not equipped to deal with her there, they would plop her down in front of a TV to watch cartoons. She became very attached to the office staff and administration. They are always asking how she is doing, and passing along how much they adore her. It warms my heart, but . . . wasn't that the worst thing they could have possibly done for her? If they had had a "Blue Room" of their own--a place where she could safely spend her anger while not being rewarded with any attention, positive or negative, for it--would she have settled in faster? If we could have just gotten her through the upheaval period, could she have made it at the old school?

I guess we'll never know. We do have it as a goal of ours to have her re-enter regular school some day, hopefully sooner than later. We'll probably shoot for the beginning of next year if things keep going well.

We were also concerned about Banana's feelings in all of this. Banana has always been a very sweet and generous child, but when Mango was in the school with her, even though they were not in the same classroom, Banana would act up every time Mango was in big trouble, so that she could be with her sister. Mango was suspended several times at the old school in her four or five weeks there, something I didn't know was even done for kindergarteners. On each of those days, Banana had a meltdown of her own. When we toured the EH classroom before Mango entered it, Banana asked us "When I be naughty I can come here too?"

I always feel insecure about my skills and fitness as a parent, because of the many issues we have had to contend with in raising special needs kids, but I have to say we handled the transition very well, especially where Banana was concerned. We were able to make her feel confident that Mango would be alright, that the new school was not really a punishment, while not making it seem like a desireable place for her to go. We didn't really have any problems at all with her. She has had three very good weeks.

About two weeks ago, Banana's school scheduled an IEP meeting to talk about Banana. They saw a much more aggressive side of me than they did when we met for Mango. Banana might not be performing at the level of other five-year-olds, but by her own standards, she is thriving. She has been impressing us with how much she has been learning and how quickly, as though some switch has been thrown, and she is happy. I'm all for her receiving ESE services if they want to give them to her, but I made it absolutely clear that if they were entertaining any thoughts of shipping off any more of my kids so that they wouldn't have to deal with their special needs, they would have to face me. [Mad]

Her teacher has instituted a happy face system of communicating her behavior with us. Three times a day, she gets a happy face, a so-so face :|, or a sad face. This works for her because she knows that even if she has a rough morning, she has a clean slate for the middle of the day and the afternoon. (When she was in preschool, her teacher tried a similar plan with the class, except that you had to get so many happy faces in a week to get a reward from the teacher. It was an unmitigated disaster. It took a happy girl who had never in her life been a behavior problem and made her into one. It seemed to us like it was too high stakes for her: the threat that she would lose some reward would upset her too much. And once she figured out she could not make it for the week, the rest of the week went to pot.) For most of the last two weeks, she has brought home three happy faces each day.

Our biggest behavior issue now is that the girls are hyper each afternoon, because they are so excited, because they are happy that they are succeeding, and they know that we are happy too. I reckon we can deal with that.

At the height of our own depression as parents, we pretty much stopped cleaning or working around the house. Each weekend I come close to getting caught up again, but it leaves me tired, and each week the house turns into a sty again. I think we won't get caught up until we get some days off.

I don't feel like I have been taking my frustrations out at Hatrack, but several times in the last two months, people have misinterpreted me, thinking I meant to give offense when I did not, or that I was offended by something they had said when I was not . . . or at least, not seriously so. Since I am the only common element, and it has happened several times, I guess it must be me. Once again, I am sorry if I've been a jerk lately.

Outlook: guardedly optimistic

[Smile]
[Smile]
[Smile]

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Ela
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Icky, glad to know your daughters are doing well.

To respond to your concerns: One of my pet peeves about most schools is that they are not adapted to children whose behavior is a little bit out of the norm. If a child is a little too hyper, or acts out, many schools are too quick to label a child, rather than try to adapt to a child's needs. It becomes a problem for that child who does not fit into the "mold" of learning style and behavior that a school expects, even if that school's standard may be too restrictive for a child of a certain age (and often, in my opinion, schools ARE too restrictive in their expectations). It can become a real problem for parents of the children who are "different." Again, glad things are working out for your kids.

**Ela**

[ October 04, 2003, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: Ela ]

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Kayla
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The "mold" only fits about 40-50% of the kids to begin with. [Frown]

Icky, glad things are going well. Don't hesitate to move Banana if things don't improve. I wish we hadn't wait to move. I gotta tell you, moving to this much smaller po-dunk town has done wonders for my son's self-esteem (if not his education.) I nearly cried the other night when he said, "You know how at my old school everyone hated me? You know what's weird? I'm actually popular here!" Yesterday, for the first time in his life, someone called him and asked if they could come over and play! (I realize that my son is just a novelty for kids that are bored with playing with the same 40 kids their whole lives, but still. . . )

So anyway, the one thing we learned through our experience is get help early. Force remediation. The later it comes, the harder it is. The earlier, the better (much, much better) the outcome. If I ever had another child like my first one, I'd be much meaner to the school and much more forceful (completely ignoring my mother-in-law.) Who cares what they think? I'd force them to do the remediation my son needed and deal with the repercussions later. (We ended up moving anyway. I figure, if they are going to screw up badly enough to get us to move, I should have caused them a hell of a lot more inconvenience.)

Good luck. And try to keep your spirits up.

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Bob_Scopatz
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[Party]

I miss you folks!!!

I'm so glad the girls are doing well & that it's spilling over into the home life. Keep that up and it won't even matter that you have to wade through piles of laundry to get to the phone when I call.

[Big Grin]

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rivka
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Yay! I love hearing such good news! [Big Grin]

[The Wave]

(((((Ic & Cor & Banana & Mango)))))

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Nick
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Icarus, I can understand your frustration, becuase my parents have told me that they went through the same stuff with me. However embarassing it might be, I started school a year late because of things that you have described Mango to be doing.

After reading your post (which was great by the way), I'm not so sure I want to teach now. I don't know if I'm cut out for it. I know I was a pain for my teachers in school. My college professors too. [Big Grin]

Anyway,
I hope all turns out for the best, and good luck to you, Cor, and your children.

(((Icarus, Cor, Mango, and Banana)))
[Frown]

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Icarus
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o_O

My child is scaring people who've never met her out of the profession!!

[Embarrassed]

[Wink]

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Hobbes
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((((((((((((((Icky and Cor))))))))))))))

Hobbes [Smile]

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Nick
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quote:
My child is scaring people who've never met her out of the profession!!
Don't get too far into that thought. It wasn't your children that scared me, it was how the teachers and administrators handled them that scared me. [Wink]

I'm not so sure I want to work under people that do that.

[Hat] Icarus

[ October 04, 2003, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: Nick ]

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Shan
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My word! How did I miss this thread? Hugs to you and Cor and the children. I'll e-mail you.
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littlemissattitude
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(((Icarus, Cor, Mango, Banana)))

quote:
Mango was suspended several times at the old school in her four or five weeks there, something I didn't know was even done for kindergarteners.
Well, I don't know about kindergarten. I was suspended once, for two days, in second grade. Looking back now, I realize that I was acting out over phobia issues (I was deathly afraid of small airplanes, a problem since the school was right under the take-off path of a small airport). The school didn't make any sort of attempt to figure out what was going on; I was just a bad kid who had to be punished. Some punishment: I didn't get to go on the field trip to the goat farm. I was so disappointed. Not.
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