posted
Tom, learn what this reality which we all experience is. Learn what we actually know of it. Learn about quantum electrodynamics, electromagnetic fields, and particle physics. Then learn about perception. Learn about the visual cortex and the various layers of its processing, for instance, and about neural net computers, and artificial intelligence, and what is known by science now about the way the brain perceives. Then you will understand reality a little better. Then we can have an intelligent conversation about reality. You talk about reality but you don't even know what it is.
Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2003
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I love mythology, folklore, and legend. I love old religions of every variety.
[rant]
And I hate the way much of these old, deep things are being twisted by today's incessant need to make things sweet or equitable.
There is something in me that wants the blood, the sacrifice, the pain and glory of these old tales. And yet wherever I turn, I see legends turned into tales of pseudo-heroism.
The worst I've seen lately is a kiddie-glove treatment of the legend of the Golem of Prague. Apparently, Rabbi Loewe (pardon the spelling) laid the tired thing asleep, now. Never mind the lessons learned about meddling with life, and death; never mind the strong moral lessons of God's love for his people, or a rabbi's desire to protect his own.
Never mind the legend of an old man, desperate to save his people from tyranny, committing blasphemy by placing the the true name of God on bits of paper in the golem's hands and mouth so it could LIVE.
Never mind the magic. Apparently, we'd rather be nice.
posted
Scott, in some ways I understand what you're saying. (Christianity can actually be pretty bloody if you look at it the right way.)
But in other ways, isn't being nice about valuing life? What's the good of living if you have to spend the whole time trying to dodge the bullet? "Niceness" is a way of saying, "I value your life and I want to get out of your way and let you live it to the fullest."
Posts: 1041 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Scott R, you rock. Myth is just not very powerful without its darkness and warnings. Fluffy gods and goddesses have little connection with reality. It is much more interesting to explore symbols with both their positive and shadow sides. And generally, if you work with metaphor and myth, much more accurate and satisfying.
I, too, don't understand why we want to tell the stories without the pain. For some it's "protecting the children". In my experience, the painful stories are more beloved and powerful for them. Wrestling with the deep stuff is just as important for them. They need powerful stories and myths, just as we all do. When we were talking about Veteran's Day, I was asked "Why do we have wars?" I answered that wars have been going on for all of human history, and that people still struggle with that question. Unfortunately, we had to go to lunch and couldn't continue the conversation. I really wanted to hear the discussion that could have come out of that simple question.
I think that myths can help us deal with concepts like war. In our PC culture, we are taught to be "nice", and conflict is pretty much viewed as a negative thing. Myths, the old ones, presented war as an aspect of life.
I want to say more, but I've got to go to work now.
Posts: 3141 | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
I'm actually quite hurt by AKA's assumption that I know nothing about electromagnetism, neural net theory, or particle physics. Apparently, as a former English major and college dropout, I have typecast myself.
I would retort that AKA should read some good books to learn more about reality, but I'll do her the favor of assuming she already HAS (and, even as a former English major, will readily concede that electrodynamics is more valuable in a study of reality than Jane Austen.) Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
While I agree Austen isn't particularly valuable for a study of reality, I'd suggest Beckett is highly appropriate.
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posted
I'm sure she is. But since my point is that the truth as people see it is not in fact the Truth, I can't very well say something like "Well, you're right for YOU." Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Celia is reading a book that has a very interesting take on all this perception vs. reality thing. I hope she posts here!
Posts: 3141 | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
What's the book? You don't have to spoil her telling us about it, but I think it's illegal* to say something like that without at least giving the title.
*if it isn't, it should be.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I thought that the Golem of Prague was common knowledge (that shouldn't be taken as a stinging comment, by the way; I never really have a good grasp of what folklore/myth/fable stuff is common knowledge and what isn't, because I was so heavily exposed to it as a child. I tend to assume that if I know it it's common knowledge, but that isn't a particularly accurate or useful way of categorizing things).
In any case, it's a fantastic story. I'll poke around and see if I can find it online for you kat.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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It's always amazing to me what things sometimes fall completely through the cracks as common knowledge. I know someone who had never heard of apartheid. Not at all. Didn't what the big deal about South Africa was. I can understand not knowing a lot, especially since it formally ended a while ago, but to have never even heard of it? Go figure!
I'm sure there are large, huge gaps in my education that will appear at only embarassing moments. That's why I have Hatrack - to fix that.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I have gaps like that myself, I'm sure; I just don't know what they are, because if I did, I wouldn't have them.
I'm woefully ignorant of pretty much everything sports related, I suppose, and don't feel any particular urge to change that.
Anyway, about the Golem. So far I haven't found a really good retelling of the folktale online. There's this fairly colorless summation of the story, and This version, which is more interestingly (if sometimes poorly) written version, but is incomplete.
I'm about to go to a meeting, but if Kayla or somebody doesn't beat me to the punch, I'll do more searching after it's over.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I always thought the Golem was common knowledge as well, until I brought it up in an english class last year and only got blank stares from everyone including the proffessor.
Also, I once again have to side with Tom. Quantum physics and all those other things ak listed have been a hobby of mine for years now, and I can't side with ak here.
posted
My stars, In Search of Magic suddenly makes a whole lot more sense.
--- Slightly off-topic, do you ever go back to a book you had read a million times before and so many more things make sense?
********To Kill a Mockingbird SPOILERS***********
I'm rereading To Kill a Mockingbird, and this time there was about a two-year gap between readings. It is as wonderful as always, but it wasn't until THIS reading that I realized that the crowd at the jailhouse the night before the trial was there to lynch Tom, and Atticus planned on defending him with his life. I knew it was dangerous, but since the story is told from Scout's point of view, you don't have to know anything more than Scout does. It wasn't until I had more experience and became one of the adults that so mystified her that I have figured out just what was going in that little town. Heck, I was almost graduated from high school before I figured out everything Mayella was enduring at home, and older than that before I knew what code of behavior she violated by kissing Tom.
That's why it's my favorite book, I think. It works at every age, and the best part is, if something is too much or too innapropriate for a mind not ready, they simply won't get it. I love it.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
The golem is the subject of stories by both Elie Wiesel and Isaac Bashevis Singer, as well as a Caldecott award-winning book by David Wisniewski (not to mention countless other renditions and appearances in various and sundry works). It was also featured in an X-files episode.
As a meme, it bubbled to the surface and hit the mainstream media big in 2000 [thus my comment to Scott above] with the release of Michael Chabon's Pulitizer-prize winning _The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay_. To quote Chabon:
quote:The golem is a character out of Jewish folklore, a myth that dates back thousands of years, before the time of Christ. The most famous legend is the one that deals with the golem of Prague, who was made by Rabbi Judah Loew ben Bezalel. There were lots of other stories about different rabbis making golems, but for some reason, this is the one that caught the imagination, not just of Jewish listeners over the centuries, but of novelists.
A lot has been written about the golem of Prague; films have been made about this artificial man, formed from river clay, who is brought to life by spells and incantations. In some stories, he's made merely to be a servant, to help clean up around the synagogue on Friday nights, to do menial jobs that somebody with a soul and brain would not want to do. In others, he's made to be a protector of the Jews of the Prague ghetto. That is the version I'm most interested in, because I see those stories of creating a defender as a possible antecedent for the idea of the superhero. It was that aspect of it that first excited me.
Comic books fought the Second World War. I knew the Jewishness of the two characters was going to be important. Somehow, I decided to have Joe Kavalier be a refugee from a country that was occupied by the Nazis. In 1939, there was the annexation of Austria and then Czechoslovakia. Then, in September, we got the invasion of Poland that started the war. I'd been to Prague, so I chose Prague. He just gets off the boat, more or less. He shows up in New York, and the day he gets there, his crazy cousin says, "We're going into the comic book business, and since you can draw, you can draw my Superman." Joe has no idea what Superman is, what a superhero is, or even what a comic book is. So when he's asked to draw a superhero, the only thing he can think of is a golem. When I was writing that, I began to feel that there was going to be more to this book than just superheroes, that somehow it was going to tie into a lot of other stuff having to do with Jewish folklore.
As a result of Chabon's novel (or more likely its great reception by the reading public) several stories about golems and their appearance in other works of fiction, Jewish folklore, and movies popped up in places like USA Today, San Francisco Chronicle, etc.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:As a meme, it bubbled to the surface and hit the mainstream media big in 2000
Ah, there's the explanation. In 2000, I was in Logan. No television, no radio reception except in the car, no car, and limited use of the internet consisting of www.cnn.com and Hatrack. I got Newsweek every week, but I must have missed that.
I'm feeling better.
Is the book worth reading?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote: That's why it's my favorite book, I think. It works at every age, and the best part is, if something is too much or too innapropriate for a mind not ready, they simply won't get it. I love it.
And also why I was so aghast when it was banned by many Nova Scotia school districts for being racist literature.
I know I've mentioned that before on Hatrack, and it happened years ago. But, dammit, I'm still incensed!
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I'm curious too--somehow I'd missed that book. What have those of you who have read it thought of it?
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posted
Ralphie has a lightning rod permanently installed leading straight from the beanie to the rubber soles of her shoes.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Well, I just wanted to add that if in fact she is seeing past events it could in fact be a hindu kind of reincarnation. She may be experiencing her past life and be intimately aware of past experiences. It is definately far-fetched but if you really believe her that could be the explanation.
Edit: The tiger could be something that she loved in her previous life and therefore it makes her feel safe when she experiences her past life.
posted
My favorite line from The Creature From the Black Lagoon is delivered by one of the scientists: "Be careful! That creature might even remember the past -- and more!"
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Noem, the book is still Cosmic Trigger and i'm still only 40 pages in.
He just swapped from the spirit of Mescaline appearing to him and a wierd association between that green critter and leprechauns and spock, to synchonity (too tired to recall if that's the right word) around him, lee harvey oswald and timothy leary.
Everyone else, that little bit of me in each of you will be activated on midnight of the night i take over the earth. thank you all so much for being part of my army. make your peace now, the days of the current reign are short lived indeed.
Posts: 3956 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Okay, I'll have to read it. I've got a pretty long "to read" list, but Cosmic Trigger is going onto it.
Does this mean, then, that I don't have to be part of your army (I noticed that your message about being part of your army was addressed to everyone--presumably in the world--but me)? Are you reserving me for some higher purpose?
posted
Tom, I agree the tiger thing is farfetched, I gave my best possible scenario where I could see it happening.
However, you say there is only one reality. My question is how do you know that "real" reality is your own? (I know it is a Matrix-esque question) You are just as biased by your rational skepticism into disbeliving everything as a naturally gullible person is biased to believe everything. I tend towards the skeptical side myself. But I guess I'm skeptical or cynical enough to doubt my own rationality and perceptions of reality as well.
posted
"My question is how do you know that 'real' reality is your own? (I know it is a Matrix-esque question)"
Naturally, I do not know that it is. However, it is ESSENTIAL for me to behave as though it is. It's much like the classical illusion of free will; whether or not we actually have it, we have to behave as if we did.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Of course, everyone behaves as if their reality is the correct one. And there must be enough overlaps because of the underlieing "real" reality that we all mostly manage to scrape along together. But there is a difference between behaving as if your reality is the correct one and questioning whether it is or not. The questioning is a step back into the cerebral, which distances you from the physical to begin with. I think the questioning is an important excercise to make the mental corrections neccessary to make course corrections to keep your reality as close to the "real" reality as possible.
posted
I just know that I'm going to accidentally say "symbolance" instead of "symbolism" soon after seeing it here so many times.
Posts: 2220 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Forget to check this thread for a few days, and miss all the Golem of Prague talk. (Oh, and he's rarely referred to as Rabbi Loew. He's more commonly known as the MaHaRaL.)
First of all, Scott RAWKS. This is such a known thing that people simply forget to mention it.
quote: Never mind the legend of an old man, desperate to save his people from tyranny, committing blasphemy by placing the the true name of God on bits of paper in the golem's hands and mouth so it could LIVE.
Erm. No. First of all, not blasphemy. A matter of grave seriousness, with potentially dreadful consequences if carried out by someone without the proper knowledge or intentions -- but not blasphemous. And the Name was placed in his mouth, only. On his head was inscribed the word emes, truth.
posted
Huh. . . I was sure that the name was placed in his hands as well. . . I'll see if I can find the source that mislead me and box their ears.
But the LINKY link that rivka posted addresses some of my concerns: the making of the golem was only possible if the Koen, the Levite, and Loew were all 'sanctified' in a religious manner-- the MaHaRaL wasn't just a hero because he brought the Golem to life. He was a hero because of personal worthiness.
And truth altered is death. . . wow. See? See what you miss if the legend is corrupted? There are so many layers to this story. . .
Thanks, rivka.
[ November 24, 2003, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Scott R ]
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
There may well be such sources. The legend has been rewritten many times since the mid-1800s. Likely there's some version that has the golem decked out like a ticker-tape parade. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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