posted
Pop, I know exactly what you mean about the fear and worry. I am praying for all of you, but for you especially, that you may be supported and strengthened, to be the mainsail of strength for your family, and that you may be comforted for the peace of your heart.
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Thank you, all. Dkw, I don't know if you know the song "Fear Not," which is based on Isaiah 43, but I started singing it to myself when I read your comments. Thanks.
CT:
quote:Have you tried pedialyte liquid or popsicles?
Yeah, we tried freezing it, and he ate some, but since that first time he hasn't had any interest -- he pushes it away even frozen. Maybe we can try the slush thing, though.
quote:The real problem is dehydration, and there are ways to take care of this.
Yeah, we'd figured that was the danger, but that as long as he was taking in some liquid and wetting diapers that he was probably ok. Also when we press an area of his skin to make it go white, the red color comes back within a two-count. That's a way to test for hydration, too, isn't it, or am I remembering wrong? Anyway, yeah, I wouldn't mind you walking us through, but via e-mail might be better, since I don't know if everyone else wants to hear about it. I'm keeping the phone number(s) handy, though.
quote:Try white grape juice instead of apple juice
Only white grape? I will certainly go to the store to get it, but I already have regular grape juice here.
quote:Clear chicken or beef broth is relatively easy on the stomach
Mama probably knows, but what exactly constitutes broth? Can I make Campbell's chicken noodle soup and give Mooselet just the liquid? Can I do that with ramen? Do I need to buy "broth" at the store? Does it come pre-made, or are we talking boullion cubes (I've heard of them, but never seen them)?
quote:2 1/2 = 15 to 20 lbs? The recommended dose of phenargen would be 7.5 to 10 mg
He's actually closer to 25 pounds, but probably not quite there after not eating for a couple days, and because of his "cleansing" experience.
Everything you've said helps me feel better. Also helps to know I'm talking to a pediatrician -- since Mooselet was the only kid in the clinic, I assume the doctor was more likely a GP.
My heart goes out to you and your family. I think that you and Mama Squirrel have more strength within than even you recognize. And it's this strength that Mooselet and Superstation feel, and I am sure emulate. Sometimes it is easier for "strangers" to see this. I know that I would be priveledged even to have met your family only once.
Just know that you are in my thoughts. As for passages from the Bible, I don't really know the specific chapter and line, but I have always liked the passage where Jesus is at Gethsemane, and he's praying for all the hardships and ordeals to pass from him. He has this chance where he could have just stepped off the path, and yet he doesn't. For me it's one of the most poignant moments of faith, strength, and love. It reminds me that true love and sacrifice comes from doing the hard things for the people you most care about even when you think you can't go on. Funny thing is is that I didn't learn that from any church sermon. I learned that from watching an episode of Babylon 5. Go figure.
Incidently, Swanson makes both a premade chicken broth and beef broth. I think they either come in cans or in those easy close cartons. Usually they are used for starters for soups. I am sure there are other brands as well.
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Try 1/2 & 1/2 with white grape juice in ice cube trays, then slush it up.
Exactly! You are measuring "capillary refill," and 2 seconds or less is normal. He should urinate (even just a little bit) at least every 8 hours, and given his renal history, at least every 6 would be even better.
Okay, we can withdraw gracefully. (but first ...)
White grape juice is gentlest on the system.
Most any of the soups would be fine, but the Ramen powder is probably least helpful. Try the Campbell's chicken noodle without the noodles, as it's a taste he's probably familiar with. Familiar is good.
Call anytime. We'll keep the cordless on the nighttable.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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Ah Pop- I've often said that our babies are children only a short time, but the night spent nursing our sick child lasts an eternity.
Jacob had a very similar virus last November. He had constant vomitting, but no fever. The vomitting lasted 3 days.
Long ago I gave-up on Pedialyte. It made my kids gag. This is what I give the kids when they can't keep anything down:
During the worst of it, I give him a teaspoon of water every five minutes.
When he can keep the teaspoons of water down, then I expand to clear, lightly-colored, non-citrus, non-carbonated liquids like lightly flavored water, diluted jello, white grape juice, flat 7-Up, and the broth from Chicken Ramen.
I'll also give him Cheerios to nibble.
After he is keeping down the liquids and Cheerios, you can go to soft, bland foods. Continue to avoid dairy products until you're sure his stomach is fine.
Pop, as I understand it, the clear liquid thing has to do with the fact that the heavier liquids upset the stomach and are harder to digest. From a very practical angle, it is easier to clean stains from lightly colored liquids than bright red or purple ones.
Pop, my heart goes out to you. Between your lack of sleep and sadness at seeing Carl in pain, you've got to be worn-out both physically and mentally. When I get to that point, the fear sets in. I get afraid that I'm not doing everything and anticipating every problem; seeing every sign.
At these times I think about the "Footprints" poem and let God carry me. And I remember that the depressing thoughts and dreams I'm having are fears, not premonitions. Fears... not premonitions.
Love you guys. You have my thoughts and prayers; let me know if I can do anything else.
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Oops- CT had already answered some of the same questions - I guess this is what happens when I start a post, then go make dinner, finish a thought, then hit enter without refreshing.
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CT can tell you if this is medically sound, but the very last resort, when you can't keep anything else down, is this. Mix about a teaspoonful of Karo syrup in a cup of water and give a small amount at a time, like a sip or a teaspoonful every hour, round the clock. Karo syrup is pure glucose, which is easier to digest than dextrose (table sugar) and the short chain sugar molecules do something to reverse the channels in the intestines which are allowing water from the bloodstream to dump into the digestive tract. It does nothing for electolyte balance, but it does get fluid into you, and is the very easiest thing of all to keep down, when even clear broths come back up.
If it's that bad, you may want to take him to the hospital for an IV, but I once got my cat through a liver infection, in which dehydration was the most life threatening part, by staying up all night and giving him a dropperful of this mixture each hour. (I had to force him to drink it.) My mom took the day shift. I guess now I would just give subcutaneous fluids, as I did with Brando one time, which Dr. George showed me how to do and it's not that hard. I don't know if that applies to children. But I still do use Karo syrup in water, for myself or anyone who is vomiting, as I have found it will stay down when absolutely everything, clear broth included, comes back up.
It tastes okay, too, so you might be able to get him to drink it. I wonder why they can't make a pedialyte formula that tastes good like Gatorade? That's a shame that it tastes vile. I wonder if it has to have more potassium or something. My potassium supplements that I am supposed to take twice a day are hard for me to take. The pill is huge and tastes very bitter if you happen to have a hard time swallowing it at first, and if I take it too early in the day, or on a stomach that isn't full enough, it makes me very nauseated. This coupled with the fact that I hardly get any food at all makes it hard. There IS no time when I have a full stomach. I rarely can manage more than one a day and often don't even take one. If I'm at all sick, I have to skip it altogether. I wish there was a better way to get potassium in me. I'd love for there to be an artificially sweetened version of Gatorade that I could drink for the potassium.
[ January 12, 2004, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
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Oh, Pop. On top of everything else, now this. It's OK to admit that you're scared. Who wouldn't be? But Mooselet's lucky to have you; I can't think of a better dad for the little guy.
You and yours are, as always, in my thoughts, and Juliette's.
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I was asked in another thread how Mooselet was doing, so here's an update.
He hasn't thrown up in two days (gagged a little bit twice, but nothing came out that wasn't already in his mouth). His diapers (as mentioned in the other thread) are still occasionally filled (to overflowing, literally) with soup that's thick enough that it doesn't get absorbed, so changing those diapers is an ordeal. He's been eating so little and getting rid of so much that he honestly looks like one of those kids they show on the brink of starvation in poorer countries so you'll spend $21 a month to support them. His belly is distended, all his limbs look incredibly thin, and his face is downright gaunt. He's always been pretty pale, but it just adds to a sickly appearance. He's been weak enough that he often stumbles when walking.
However, all in all he's still relatively cheery. He's a little clingy, and he'll point out regularly that his tummy hurts. He's now keeping solid food (beyond crackers) down, which is good. We haven't been so bold as to try dairy yet, despite his constant requests for milk. We (Mama and I) both think he's past the roughest part, but the diarrhea could continue for a while. He's still heartbreaking both with his smile and his whimper.
We've scheduled another appointment with the orthopedist because it's clear his feet are turning back in. He's also due for another vaccination next week, but I think we'll just wait until he's well past this bug.
I'm also much less scared than I was, and my thoughts and dreams haven't been about death. Thank you all (from all of us) for your prayers and encouragement.
posted
Pop, you probably already know this but before you give him milk make sure he's getting enough yogurt with acidophilus cultures in it. His bacteria just had a major die off and need to be replenished (CT tell me if I'm saying something off the wall). You might be able to give him the more exotic milk with acidophilus in it too to help at the beginning.
I'm a die hard milk drinker but I had to do this when I had my tonsils out. The milk was too thick to swallow so I didn't have any for a couple weeks and my bacteria massively died off. I had to start back very slowly and ate lots and lots of yoghurt.
posted
If acidophilus is an issue (and with really nasty diarrhea, it sure can be!), they make powdered acidophilus for kids that can be added to juice and such. IIRC, it's sold as "babydophilus"? Try a health food store.
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Papa, try Silk brand vanilla soy milk. I'm serious -- it should be at your grocery store. The problem with dairy is that gastroenteritis wipes out the lactose that is secreted in the "brush border" (villi) of the intestine. Takes awhile to rebuild, as AJ said. meanwhile, soy should be more readily absorbed, and it might content him.
Good luck! *fingers crossed
CT, who used to think soy milk sounded ghastly, but after trying it, now way prefers it
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FYI, iirc, Silk soy milk is one of the brands that comes (and needs to stay) refrigerated. It's got a nice flavor, though. My personal preference for non-milk milk taste-wise is almond milk, but I have no idea how that compares to soy milk in ease of digestion.
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quote: I'm far more scared than I usually admit. I try to stay strong, especially for Mama, but the truth of the matter is that I fear that one of these times, Mooselet simply won't wake up. I'll sometimes wake up in the middle of the night, and I feel a need to go into his room to verify that he's still breathing
I know EXACTLY how you feel. There are many many nights when I wake up and go to Stephen's room to make sure he is still breathing, all three kids actually because I fight this paranoia that one of my children will die, of course Stephen is at the most risk. It is a terrifying feeling, my chest constricts, my muscles tense, my neck gets sore and my head starts pounding. All I can do is check on Stephen, take a deep breath and remind myself that no matter what happens God loves me and is taking care of my family. Faith has to step in because there really is no other way. If you were here I would give you a huge hug and we could cry together, you and Mama Squirrel and my dh. About a year before Stephen's transplant a young man that attended our church was hit by a car and died. As I sat in his funeral service, looking around at the people who loved this family and were there for them I had a horrible vision of these same people sitting there for us. It about killed me. Even now thinking back I sob. I wish I knew what to say that would help. Maybe it will help to know your feelings are completely normal. I attend a support group for parents of seriously ill and dying children. Everyone of us experiences the same thing in varying degrees. One mom has some PostTraumatic Stress symptoms. It helps to talk to other parents that are in similar situations. Maybe you can contact your social worker at your hospital and ask her/him if there are any groups. At the very least make sure you talk with Mama Squirrel. I know it helps me more to know my husband needs my support and is feeling the way I am. I feel less alone that way, and we can lean on each other.
((((Papa Moose and Mama Squirrel))))
Hang in there and know you are not alone. The pain the Savior suffered was for our pain and suffering, not just our sins.
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I acually worked a temp job about a year and a half ago where I was one of the flunkies running bacteria samples on aged Silk. I was working for the company that made the carton machine that folds and seals the cartons and fills them with liquid. We were working on stuff kept warmer than a normal fridge, and aged for like 4 months. Really considering all of the extreme factors, the bacteria counts weren't bad. However there was enough nastiness with fermented soy milk, that I personally could never drink the stuff unless it was a matter of life or death!
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I am a Mama to daughter: age 33 son age: age 30 son age:11 daughter:9
plus I have 3 grand boys under 5
I have helped raised the better part of 75 children as well. I thought I could weather any sick baby story by now. Mooselet has my whole heart in a knot. The Moose Familt is on my permanent prayer list now.
posted
Ah, Pop, I can't wait for the day when you post that Mooselet is finally completely healthy, with no more surgeries on the horizon. That poor kid, and you poor parents. I hate that you're having to go through this.
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One thing that really struck me in Moose's post was Mooselet's happy demeanor. He is SUCH a happy kid. I enjoyed being around him. Even in a restaurant. Which is saying a lot for a 2 year old.
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A couplephotos of Mooselet. The pictures look a little better than the reality, though. Mama weighed him a couple days ago, albeit not on an incredibly accurate scale, and he was only 23 pounds. That's not even on the weight chart for his age.
Still, we're taking things one day at a time. He's keeping down all his food -- even meat, although he definitely prefers carby stuff like noodles and pretzels and crackers -- and he likes the soy milk well enough, though it's making his nose run more. I think he's over the hump, and we just have to wait for this thing to run its course. You folks have been a huge help and support for me and mine, and we do appreciate it more than you know.
posted
Keep in mind that he's likely slightly dehydrated. A few days of eating fairly normally should take care of that, and put back on a surprising number of pounds. (At least, it always does after I've been sick. )
(((((all the Meese)))))
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Papa, I haven't posted or said much in this thread, but it tears my heart to read this. I haven't met Mooselet, but the pictures that I have soon are just as Bob's described: happy, bright and much more agreeable than most 2 year olds are. I'm glad to hear that he's getting better. You are in my prayers.
posted
Papa Moose --Mooselet is adorable! How old is he? My Brigham is 2 next month and is right about Mooselet's size. He fell off the bottom of the growth chart at 5 months and hasn't made it back on yet. By all accounts he's healthy, just small. So Mooselet doesn't look too bad to me! Glad to hear he is doing better. Keep being the wonderful parents that you both are.
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I'm not around much these days, and this is the first time I've had a chance to read up on all that your family is going through ...
I was a very, very sick child; so sick that the police had to rush me to the ER on several occasions before my second birthday, lights going and all. I am healthy, recently married, and looking forward to the day we have children of our own.
I hope and pray that Mooslets health will continue to improve. I know it isn't easy to be a parent in these situations.
I hope that, if the situation were to happen to our children,we would do half as well as you are doing. Just stay positive, for his sake, and love him, as you quite obviously do. That is all a parent can do, and will be what he remembers most, if he remembers anything about this at all. All I remember is my parents always being there for me, whenever I was sick or hurt, and hopefully that is all he will remember tweny-five years from now...
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We love you Mooses. I'm going to put your names on our prayer roll at the Portland Temple (LDS) tomorrow and pray for you myself...so that will be lots of people plus just me praying for you and Mooselet.
Like I said, we love you.
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I was going to wait until after Mooselet's next two appointments for an update, but since the thread has been bumped, I'll throw in a word or two. He appears to be entirely past the flu. He's back to eating like a... well, like a moose. No, not just twigs and shrubs. He's packing down large amounts of food of all kinds, as well as regular milk (the vanilla silk soymilk got us through quite well, thank you -- if only it didn't cost three times as much as regular!), and his cheeks actually looked puffy this morning. This has been a great relief to Mama and me -- thanks to all of you for helping us through this trying time.
Thursday is the urologist appointment and next Monday is the orthopedist. I'll update (for those who care) after those two, and hopefully we'll know our next courses of action.
posted
I'm very very glad this part is over, Papa Moose. You'll stay in my thoughts for a long time.
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