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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Four reasons I love George W. Bush (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Four reasons I love George W. Bush
Rhaegar The Fool
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Reason One: He does what he believes is right and doesn't run his entire life by the polls unlike our last president.

Reason Two: He actually has guts, thats a very rare thing in politics these days. Neither Gore, nor any of the current candidates have even a shred of spine, except Lieberman. Can you imagine what this world would be like if Dashal had been in command during 9-11? "Em... em... shame on you Al Qaeda.... em.... em.... that was quite un called for.... em..... We will be forming a comitee to look into this insident..... em.... and we find some of the language in your videos offenceive, would you mind changing it please?.... em...... em......... Shame on you."

Reason Three: He is finally paying attention to our national defence. During the Clinton-Gore years, the nations military was reduced to a tithe of what it once was, and the result? Our enemies became less afraid of us, we did no have the manpower to handle situations, IE Somalia, and because of that lack of fear, 9-11. But now we are at least gaining back some of our old strength.

Reason Four: Hes not a sleezebag. You can trust him to do what is right, and to stand by his beliefs.

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Strider
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you're talking about George W. Bush here right?
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odouls268
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I Second That, Rhaeger.

I was pondering drafting my own thread like this.

[ December 11, 2003, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: odouls268 ]

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Rhaegar The Fool
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Thank you odouls. He's not Reagan, but hes good.
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Synesthesia
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Guts? How does he have guts? He was just saying what people wanted to hear, which was exactly the wrong thing because it leads to this kind of crap again!
As for the war, to me it was a huge folly. Never mind the WMD, I don't care about those, what I care about is the fact that they didn't even catch Saddam! That is what gets under my skin, turning the whole country upside down and letting a madman like him just slip through their fingers.
I also hate his economic policies. It's the same backwards stuff that people have already been trying which has been proven NOT TO WORK.

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katharina
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Dashal? The tenth reindeer?
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Rhaegar The Fool
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Then explain why the economy is on the biggest rise since world war two if his policies are so bad.
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Rhaegar The Fool
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quote:
Dashal? The tenth reindeer?
[ROFL] Nice, very nice.
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Nick
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quote:
Thank you odouls. He's not Reagan, but hes good.
Well, some people didn't think Reagan was so good. I didn't think he was a bad president at all, but some people on this forum now have more ammunition to shoot at you. They will use "bad things" that Reagan had done in conjunction with what "bad things" Bush has done in order to discredit your post.
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Rhaegar The Fool
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Reagan was the best president we ever had. Its that simple. I will admit though that Bush's environental policies are terrible.
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Frisco
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quote:
Reason One: He does what he believes is right and doesn't run his entire life by the polls unlike our last president.
Wait, wait, wait. Did I miss something, or are we still a democracy?
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Rhaegar The Fool
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The election of the senate, and himself is democracy, they voted, now it is up to him to do what is right.

[ December 11, 2003, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Rhaegar The Fool ]

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Rhaegar The Fool
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What I'm saying is, he doesnt run his life by what is popular like Clinton did. He does what needs to be done.
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Eruve Nandiriel
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*claps for GW Bush*
*claps for Rhaegar for starting this thread*

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Frisco
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All hail King Bush!

*shoots fist into the air*

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MaureenJanay
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Well, I think Bush USED to be that way until the whole turkey and medicare incidences. (Incidents?)
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Rhaegar The Fool
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*Bows* Somebody had too. The endless liberal sniping was pi$$ing me off.

[ December 11, 2003, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Rhaegar The Fool ]

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fugu13
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Lets discuss, oh, say, AmeriCorps, that admirable organization GWB so praised in that state of the union. But wait! His promise to expand its ranks went unhonored! In fact, he proposed cuts in its funding. Now, as far as I can tell this leaves two possibilities:

AmeriCorps was never a priority of his and he lied about supporting it.

AmeriCorps is no longer a priority of his.

Given his track record, I'm inclined to choose the first possibility myself. GWB has a consistent record of voicing support for something, and even getting a bill passed, and then not requesting adequate funding for it. A very successful political strategy, but not a very morally upstanding one. And even the second possibility doesn't make me think very highly of him; AmeriCorps is a quite admirable organization, and its budget pales in comparison to even the smallest of military line items.

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fugu13
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Then lets talk about the economy. He claims to be conservative economically, and his advocacy for tax cuts centers around stimulating the economy -- and then he goes and supports ridiculously high steel tariffs! Tariffs are an economic depressant, as any freshman macro econ student and certainly anybody with an MBA should be able to tell you.

If GWB is as economically conservative as he claims to be, then I'm a Platonic form!

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Dan_raven
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quote:
Reason One: He does what he believes is right and doesn't run his entire life by the polls unlike our last president.
I believe a leader needs to make decisions and be willing to accept the consequences, especially if they are wrong. I believe that President Bush stands firmly by his decisions and his commitments--even if they are proven inconvient or incorrect as times change. (He promised Tax Breaks when we had a surplus. Those exact same tax breaks were deliverd, "Because of the deficit". I think they were delivered because he promised them, and he won't back down from his promise no matter who it hurts.)

The problem with President Bush is not that he sticks to his ideals. Its that his Ideals are, Business First--people second. I disagree with them.

quote:
Reason Two: He actually has guts, thats a very rare thing in politics these days...
This is your opinion. I have not seen these guts you are talking about. His trip to Iraq and his landing on an aircraft carrier struck me more as posing than bravery. His military record is average.

Or do you refer to his willingness to take tough, do-or-die, with me or against me stances on things.

In other words, this is the same as #1.

quote:
Reason Three: He is finally paying attention to our national defence. During the Clinton-Gore years, the nations military was reduced to a tithe of what it once was, and the result? Our enemies became less afraid of us, we did no have the manpower to handle situations, IE Somalia, and because of that lack of fear, 9-11. But now we are at least gaining back some of our old strength.
What? Where have we rebuilt our military? Where have we added anything to our military? Rumsfeld was in the midst of planning further cuts and further reductions, turning most of the military into rapid strike forces.

The only growth that has come to our military in President Bush's term has been an increase in recruitment, mostly due to the patriotism followin 9/11. Much of that is wearing thin as our friends in the reserves face the realities of war and vow not to reenlist.

President Bush is using more of our military, a thing he ridiculed President Clinton for. He is not building it.

quote:
Reason Four: Hes not a sleezebag. You can trust him to do what is right, and to stand by his beliefs.
There are billions of people out there who are "not a sleezebag." You may think CLinton was. Fine. But you will need a better reason than that for me to believe President Bush should remain my President.

As far as the rest of the quote, that is just a rehashing of #1.

Lets look at who else fits your criteria.

1) Stands by what he believes no matter what other people say or do. No matter what the rest of the world says or does.
2) Brave enough to stand by what he believes. Personally brave and willing to sacrafice his way of life for those beliefs.
3) Supports a strong defence. Responsible for an increase in the recruitment of US forces or basically built up the military.
4) Not a sleazebag. See #1, but also, strong family man with a deep commitment to his religion.

Is that:
A) President Bush
B) Osama Bin Ladin
C) Sadaam Hussein

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David Bowles
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What?!? No funding for AmeriCorps?!? The bastard! I say we impeach his ass NOW!
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TomDavidson
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"What I'm saying is, he doesnt run his life by what is popular like Clinton did."

Which aspects of the steel tariffs and recent Medicare bill do you think most appealed to Bush on an ideological level, Rhaegar?

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fugu13
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Then lets talk about your bashing of people such as Gore -- the same Gore who insisted on serving in the military, the same Gore who voted for attacking Iraq in the first Gulf War despite his party's general opposition, the same Gore whose proposed budgets during the campaign allocated far more for the military (not counting GWB's proposed missile defense program), particularly military pay, than GWB's, and considerably more than GWB's actual budgets before 9/11, which were smaller than his campaign budgets.

Gore has long been a staunch supporter of the United States military and the use of the United States military against oppressive regimes, and you are doing yourself a disservice by implying he is a quisling.

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Eruve Nandiriel
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Yeah, and Gore also "invented the internet". [Roll Eyes]
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fugu13
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C'mon DB, if you want to debate, debate, if you want to be snide, shut up. I have never even suggested impeaching GWB, because I don't think it is warranted. I have strongly (and I believe correctly) argued that his politics are not as moral as he wishes us to believe.

However, I have also been willing to say when I think he has done something right. I have specifically praised several of his actions, and will continue to do so when he takes actions I consider worth praising.

Your implication that I'm just out to bash Bush is insulting and uncalled for.

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TomDavidson
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What's great, Eruve, is that we can always dependably count on people who don't know the history behind that often misused quote to bring it up whenever Gore is discussed. Way to be manipulated by the media. [Smile]

------

Seriously, who here thinks Bush's Medicare bill and steel tariffs were motivated by anything but a desire to be re-elected? Anyone?

[ December 11, 2003, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]

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David Bowles
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Sorry, fugu, I just think your example wasn't enough to make me angry at Bush, given all the much more signficant IDEOLOGICALLY CONTRADICTORY moronic things he's done.

I support the man, I think he's handling the war and the economy well, but his expansion of government is like a slap in the face.

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Tresopax
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I agree with reasons 1, 2, and 4 (although they're pretty much the same reason). Unfortunately, though, all the good intentions in the world won't make you a good leader if you are wrong about what the right thing to do is. And Bush is wrong.

Also, at least three of the Democratic candiates also have those three qualities. One of those is Howard Dean, who is often called "unelectable" precisely because DOES have guts, DOES stand by his beliefs, and DOESN'T let polls run his campaign. Dean is very much like Bush in this extent. Al Sharpton and Kucinich also seem to have these qualities. Unfortunately, they're also both a little bit "out there".

(SIDENOTE: This is also why the other Democratic candidates will not be able to win. This is no time for another Clinton and the general public seems to recognize it.)

As for military spending, it's fairly ridiculous to say our enemies became less afraid of us during the Clinton years. The events of 9/11 illustrate that exactly the opposite occurred - our military size during the Clinton years generated so much fear and anger among certain regions that terrorists felt the need to rise up and give up their lives to drive us out.

[ December 11, 2003, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: Tresopax ]

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fugu13
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That's the thing, I wasn't trying to make you angry. Talking on the higher level things that you find unsettling would be dismissed by Rhaegar as generalities. I was using a specific and well documented point to illustrate how GWB has NOT always done what he says he believes.

While I understand now that you did not mean your comment to be as insulting as it came out, I think you did a very poor job of expressing it.

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David Bowles
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Yeah, well, sorry again, dude.
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fugu13
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I apologize, in my haste to reply I had read your sorry in the first post as a colloquialism rather than an apology.

*offers hand to shake*

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Rhaegar The Fool
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But Tresopax, It's physically impossible to be scared of Clinton. The reason we messed up Somalia is because of the fact that we did not have the neccesary resources to back our men up, no Ah-64s, not light armor, nothing but Little Birds, and Blacjhawks. They dstruck at 9-11 because he did NOTHING to stop them after the Beirut and Yemen bombings. He did NOTHING. He gave no reason for them to be scared of us, he gave them courage, when he should have crushed them like bugs!
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Chris Bridges
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I have no problem with George W. Bush the man. He's got a sense of humor, he's smarter than anyone gave him credit for, he has a sense of family and integrity and devotion. I would probably have a better time having dinner with him than with, say, Al Gore.

I just flatly disagree with most of what he's done in office, and I think that his ideology and his actions will cause severe problems in our country and the world very soon.

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Dan_raven
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I understand your argument Rhaegar, but I believe you are confusing Sufficient Use of the Military with Expansion of the Military.

You argue that Clinton reduced the size of the military and that was why terrorists attacked us. Then you argue Clinton didn't use it correctly (not strongly enough), and that's why the terrorists were enboldened to attack.

There is a difference.

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TomDavidson
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Rhaegar, you still haven't told me if you believe that Bush had motives behind his steel tariffs and Medicare bill other than the desire to be "popular."
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policyvote
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The one thing I love about Bush is the thing he may be about to do:

Spend a whole bunch of money on NASA, trying to get us to a different rock than the one we live on.

There's been rampant speculation that Bush will announce some sort of major space initiative in the coming weeks. The two big rumors are "back to the Moon" and "let's go to Mars". Either one, or even an announcement of major progress on the Shuttle situation would do wonders for our country. I've been really, really worried that without a Space Race, and with all the disasters and accidents involving space technology lately, our nation's interest in (and funding of) space projects might entirely die off.

Now, spending a whole bunch more money on NASA isn't going to ruin the budget much more than it's already been ruined . . . but at a time like this? Bush is already being criticized in conservative circled for pushing and signing big spending bills, do you think he'd go to the mat for space? Here's the thing: he's proven time and time again that he's brazen and foolish enough to do damn near anything. Dubya may just be bullheaded enough to do what has to be done, regardless of political climate or ulterior motives . . .

I hope he does it. I hope we go to Mars.

Peace
policy

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fugu13
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Unfortunately, I fear this will be another example of AmeriCorps or No Child Left Behind if Bush expresses support for it.

Personally, I doubt the veracity of reports that he will say it at all, though.

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Traveler
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quote:
Spend a whole bunch of money on NASA, trying to get us to a different rock than the one we live on.

During a time where we are driving this country into a very very serious deficit, where most states are floundering in debt, and most people are having personal economic difficulties you really think that we should spend billions on a project like this??

I think this is yet another example of Bush having his priorities in the wrong place. I love the idea of space exploration and am a large advocate of NASA; however, these types of programs are something that should be reserved for when the country has a surplus.

This just seems like a publicity stunt to me. I'm willing to bet that, like Americorp, this program will never see the money. However, I bet the media will eat it up and make Bush sound like a 'visionary' or something and then in a few years a few people who actually have attention spans will say, "whatever happened to that Mars program?"

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Dan_raven
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I've looked at No Child Left Behind, and have seen the under-funded schools.

I've looked at the "Forest Protection Plan" and seen the logging to come from it.

I've seen the "War on Terrorism" strike terror and fear throughout the Mid-East.

I've looked at the Clear Skies plan, and cough from the prepaid pollutants.

I've seen the "Patriot Act" inspire unpatriotic actions on our behalf.

I look forward to President Bush's "New Heights for Nasa" plan, and figure I'll pick up a good deal on a used shuttle during Nasa's "Going Out Of Business Sale."

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policyvote
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fugu . . . you from the [H]? Have I asked you that before? I can't remember.

Anyway, yeah, I know it's too good to be true, but even the national meta-discussion about space because of this rumor is helpful. I think any time the nation thinks or talks about space funding, it's a good thing. So, if there's a big announcement and nothing happens, there will still be national discussion about space and that's cool. If there's no announcement, people will be talking about how there was no announcement and wondering why that was and that's cool.

But I'm still hoping against hope for the announcement AND the follow-through.

Peace
policy

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policyvote
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quote:
During a time where we are driving this country into a very very serious deficit, where most states are floundering in debt, and most people are having personal economic difficulties you really think that we should spend billions on a project like this??
Do I think we SHOULD? Heavens, no! That's exactly my point. If Clinton were still in office, he'd probably bump NASA's funding a little and tell them to spend it on Shuttle maintenance and that'd be the end of it. It would be a small, politicized step in the right direction--without spending any real money during this time of budgetary woe. However, Bush is stupid enough to rationalize it by saying the money's all going into the Aerospace industry. Hell, he's probably call it the Economic Recovery of Tomorrow Initiative or something.

My point is he's short-sighted and foolhardy enough to make that mistake. And, even though it WOULD be economically moronic at a very sensitive time for the economy, it'd be the first major confirmation that space exploration will continue, with or without an obvious military benefit.

Peace
policy

[ December 11, 2003, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: policyvote ]

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Storm Saxon
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The fact that Bush actually encouraged the ability to have secret government trials of Americans and is fighting even now to deprive Americans of their right to counsel, should be enough reason for anyone to get that guy out of office.

If you support those measures, please move to China where that kind of thing is welcome.

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fugu13
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*wonders what/where the [H] is*

So I'm pretty sure the answer is no [Smile] . I'm originally from Bloomington, Indiana, and currently reside in Saint Louis.

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Frameshifter
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[H]
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Sopwith
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Here's the thing, I think Bush has done some things that needed doing, but I certainly haven't liked how he went about them. He's also worked to make a mess of certain things like Medicare, the budget deficit debacle, Social Security is still waiting on the mortician's doorstep, the environment is at a pre-rape stage, the steel tarrifs and I'm still not seeing any of the larcenous CEOs walking up to the headsman's axe.

Earlier, someone mentioned how Reagan was the greatest president we'd ever had. I'm sorry to disagree here, but he couldn't hold a candle to FDR.

You might want to look into the Iran-Contra affair and the possibility that he traded arms to Iran in exchange for the hostages. You might also want to speak to an air traffic controller who was fired by executive order. Perhaps you remember the "ketchup is a vegetable" ordeal. Perhaps the soaring deficits he rang up. Or maybe you should check out how high the prime lending rate was back in the mid to late 1980s. Psychic advisors in the White House anyone?

How about that foreign policy? Reagan did help put the final nails in the Soviet coffin, but he didn't do it alone. The Soviets had more to do with it than anyone, especially the pre-Gorbachev string of premieres. Reagan also was responsible for much of the US support to Iraq. Ferdinand Marcos? How about Imelda's shoe fetish while Phillipino children were put to work picking through landfills?

Reagan was an inspiring speaker and the last of the old guard dinosaurs.

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imogen
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quote:
I will admit though that Bush's environmental policies are terrible.
Isn't this enough to seriously question his worth as a President?

He's leader of the most powerful country in the world. Which, conincidentally, has contributed a lot to the world's environmental problems. (Though you're not alone in this one - basically every country's done their share. With maybe the exception of Lichtenstein.)

The environment is one of, if not the biggest, problem to face the world. It will not get better by itself. And it will affect everybody.

Isn't one of Bush's prime reponsibilities to make a change? He's in a position to do so - if the US ratified the Kyoto Protocol for example, other countries such as Australia would soon follow because of international pressure.

If Bush really wants the US to be a global policeman, and a positive force, then shouldn't he do this not only in a military sense?

Ok, end rant. I just get mad when people say dismiss environmental problems as not so important - which is what you're doing if you say Bush is a great president even though you acknowledge his environmental policies are awful.

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BrianM
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I consider myself a conservative. I do not consider George W. Bush a conservative. Real conservatives believe in small, limited government that does not encroach upon your freedoms. George W. Bush has also done the most of any President to diminish our soft power around the world. You can't keep a country running by making the world afraid of it. That is Machiavellian nonsense. Even Machiavelli admitted that over the long run fear will always turn into hate and disgust. Even when he counseled that if you must chose between being loved and being feared you should chose being feared, he added a caveat later saying you should not let that fear turn into hatred and disgust. However, he didn't explain how that was possible.

If Edmund Burke were alive today he would be ashamed at what George W. Bush is doing in the name of conservatism.

Just look at his justifications for Iraq. Bush starts off with legitimate security concerns, but then starts off on this humanitarian/human/natural rights thing. That is liberal nonsense. That is what caused the chaos of the French revolution. Bush is a political whore who is not ethically consistent with any single ideology that he claims to be.

[ December 11, 2003, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: BrianM ]

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Kasie H
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Any NASA initiative wouldn't be underfunded a la "No Child Left Behind" because an unfunded program would be simply too obvious to the American people. It wasn't all that long ago that we went to the moon, and we did it in 10 years like JFK decreed. With the space program, Americas are used to getting results -- we are not the most patient populace in the world. If Bush announces support for NASA and the public doesn't see results almost immediately (i.e. a shuttle launch by spring of next year followed by well-publicized research/scouting missions to Mars and/or the moon), no one will believe it and he'll lose the support he had.

Granted, this is only relevant if he waits til AFTER the 2004 election to make the announcement about the space program.

Honestly, though....if Bush does announce a space plan and Dean comes out against it, he's lost my vote. I don't care that it's not economically feasible or wise.....I guess space is my pet issue. I'd sacrifice a lot for our space program, including a good portion of my tax dollars....I'd even pay a few more.

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fugu13
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Kasie? Sorry, but I think you're being politically naive. If Bush doesn't adequately fund the program and ever gets called on it (which is itself unlikely), he'll blame it on NASA bureaucracy, and the people he's put in charge there will issue statements which seem to stand up for NASA but are so weak they only back him up.
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fugu13
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I'd like to add one of the reasons I have for not liking Bush that has developed over time: he gets rid of the cabinet members that dare to suggest his policies might be wrong.
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