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Eomer is a severe hottie, no doubt. I hate it that a lot of the pics of him I linked to before are now gone.
His armor is just awesome! I want Halla (my D&D paladin character) (if Tom ever revives the game) to have armor just like that, only, you know, sized for Halla. Can Halla have armor like that, Tom, please? <puppy eyed smilie>
[ December 18, 2003, 01:58 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
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The two middle pics look like he's holding a "dead" Eowyn, so something tells me that part will be in the EE.
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Ah, fiazko, you're right! That's exactly what is happening there. He's freaking out about Eowyn being dead, then he's going berzerk and riding into battle again.
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Please forgive me for starting it off this way, I just have to get it off my chest. I will get into what I loved, so stick around.
Things that royally pissed me off:
Frodo sending Sam away. Frodo was never so stupid that he couldn't see through Gollum's plotting and I'm just so irritated that they turned it into a love triangle.
Aragorn seeming totally oblivious to the fact that he would have to go through the paths of the dead. He too was never so stupid.
The fact that Eowyn's and Merry's injuries were so lightly dismissed. (Yes, I'm glad it will be in the EE)
For a movie that's titled "Return of the King" there sure wasn't very much king at all.
Things I absolutely adored:
The vision that Arwen has of Aragorn and their son. That was just lovely and I bawled like an idiot.
The Hollywood kiss at the end. The fact that Aragorn was surprised to see her was rather silly, but it made it a little more romantic and fun.
The final scene when Sam and Frodo are on the rock surrounded by the lava. It's exactly how I pictured it. I love it when Frodo puts his arm around Sam and they just sit there with their heads together.
The looks on everyone's faces as they stood there and witnessed the fall of Sauron. That was fantastic. I couldn't help but yell out "Ha HA!!"
The goodbye scene at the end. It was one of the only places where I didn't feel rushed and PJ took the luxury of enough time to do the scene justice.
I LOVED Legolas surfing the oliphant. It was tons of fun and I think he deserved the applause that he got in our showing.
The cracks of doom scene was perfection. Just perfection.
Minas Morgul and the way it looked like Emerald City on drugs. It was just thrilling!!
I found myself feeling cranky when it was all over just because a) it was over and I would never get to see it for the first time again b)it felt like I had read the book in fast forward and c)I was rather overwhelmed with things to think about. I think the editing was rather choppy, but that probably comes from just having too much good stuff to cram in one movie. I didn't miss Saruman that much, but I did miss the houses of healing and I really really missed Aragorn. I thought there just wasn't enough of the king, especially at the end. I really would have loved to have seen him in his kingdom. I was hoping he would show up at the harbor, but alas. No more Aragorn. There has been so much talk about Oscars. People have said that Viggo should get one, or Sean Astin...and while their performances were truly wonderful, I think Elijah Wood's performance in this one was the tour de force. He was more wonderful than I've ever seen him and I have a renewed respect for his talent. I can't say enough good things about it. I think his performance is what made the movie so poignant and wonderful for me. I didn't cry as much as I thought I would, but I did cry quite a bit. The Aragorn with son scene just about killed me...the charge of the Rohirrim...the pre battle pep talks...and the end when they all kneel before the hobbits. Ah. I get teary just thinking of it.
Ok, I'll humbly shut up now. Go see it if you haven't already.
-Those bad-person boats. The boats that were supposed to be bringing more wicked people to help out the Orcs, out of which leapt Aragorn, so very heroically. They were the most beautiful sea-going vessels I've ever seen. I would almost rather have one of those than have a pirate ship. -Aragorn's rousing speech to the warriors at Sauron's gate (one of three emotionally charged moments at which my friend Atoshi didn't giggle, thus ruining it for me); for that matter, Aragorn singing at his coronation -Gandalf being depressed and guilty all the time about Frodo
I liked a lot of things, actually, but there were a couple of things that made me so indignant I couldn't focus.
-Okay, what happened to my favorite scene? It was my favorite scene in the books, and possibly in all of literature. I think it was in TTT, shortly after Faramir lets Sam and Frodo go. Frodo and Sam are sleeping, and Gollum creeps up and touches Frodo's cloak, and Tolkien says something to the effect that he almost looks like a weary hobbit. And right then Sam wakes up and is mean to Gollum (that whole "Where have you been sneaking off to?" thing), and after that (Tolkien says!) "Shelob's lair becomes inevitable."
That scene was the best. It was a crucial turning point. It was beautifully written and it defined the books for me, and they left it right out. You could almost hear a tragic whooosh as it went by.
-Eomer. Okay, I love Eomer, and he's very lovely all the time, but particularly he has nice teeth. And he rarely, rarely smiles or talks where you can see his teeth in this movie. It was so sad.
-I was sad not to see the scene wherein Gandalf is better than Saruman. It was so satisfying. I loved that bit.
Overall, though, it was a lovely movie, and I quite liked it, [grumble] even if Peter Jackson did eliminate all moral ambiguity with Gollum being maybe-about-to-reform and Denethor being a fallen hero [/grumble].
posted
Yes, I missed being able to see Denethor with his full moral complexity. He's the one who has held back the darkness from the rest of the free folk of the world for so long, and he's proud and he loved Boromir too much and Faramir not enough. He thinks too much of Gondor relative to the rest of the world, but still he was a very valiant hero. He struggled against the darkness his whole life long, and was finally mastered by it. His story is a very sad one.
Did you know that Aragorn and Denethor were both heroes together in Gondor's wars against the shadow in their youths? That when Denethor was the age Boromir and Faramir were in the movie, that Aragorn lived as almost an adopted son in the house of Denethor's father Ecthelion? They say he left because he didn't want to become Denethor's rival for the hearts of his people, because it wasn't yet his time. Aragorn is in his 80s during the time of the events in the movie. He's been given thrice the lifespan of ordinary men, as the men of Westernesse had, his forebears the Numenoreans.
They never even showed us that Denethor had a palantir, did they? I saw no sight of one in the flames.
I did miss Denethor being a complex character.
[ December 18, 2003, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: ak ]
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You know, the Greeks used to say that the Illiad and the Odyssey had everything you needed to learn in life. They said that all virtue, honor, and wisdom resided in Homer. That everything was there. That was all you needed in order to know how to be human well.
I have that feeling about Lord of the Rings. To me it is complete, just like the Greeks considered Homer. All of life is in there.
I think maybe that was what Tolkien was trying to do for those of us who speak English. If it was, then he succeeded.
[ December 18, 2003, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
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You're saying the Lord of the Rings is our Illiad and Odyssey, a modern superclassic. You may be right.
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So, if the Flaming Eye can "pierce cloud, shadow, earth, and flesh" - why didn't Sauron see Frodo when he was lookin' straight at him?!
Other than that minor quibble, I can say that this was th ebest movie I've seen all year, and is certainly better than TT. But I have a real soft spot for Fellowship - which is my favorite will probably depend on my mood. The Extended is going to be an absolute treat. Hopefully they will insert a scene where we learn that Denethor has a Palantir and thus give him a reason for being off his rocker. But the Houses of Healing need to come back, and so does Saruman.
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Pippin is MINE I tell you! (my prreciousss) Man, he's hot and adorable all rolled into one! Just irrisistable! And those dimples! And the irish accent! And the looks on his face! And he's a comic!
*is so in love with Pippin*
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*will make wings out of newspaper and fly over there to steal him while she's on that side of the ocean. Then will put him in her suitcase and refuse to declare him to the customs people* "I don't know what you're talking about. He was there when I _left_ for Europe!"
quote:Frodo sending Sam away. Frodo was never so stupid that he couldn't see through Gollum's plotting and I'm just so irritated that they turned it into a love triangle.
Narnia, I thought that was the most intensely dramatic part of the development in Sam and Frodo's friendship. I love the way Jackson brought this out.
No one can hurt you worse than a friend. When Frodo doubted Sam who had been nothing but faithful and loyal, and told him to turn back, he left Sam weeping in pain. This was the ultimate test for any friendship, to be doubted wrongly and denounced and rejected. For Sam to overcome that, for their friendship to overcome that ultimate test, cemented a friendship far beyond what most people can ever attain--but a few can. A very few. This was what, in my mind, made Sam the greatest hero of the movie. Overcoming his internal pain and continuing to honor his duty to his friend despite being misunderstood and rejected, was greater than his victory over Shelob. When Sam descended a little way and found the lembas bread that had obviously been tossed down by Gollum, he could have shrugged and said, "Well Frodo made his choice." He already knew Gollum had lied, and finding this proof did not really change anything for Sam. 99% of people probably would have gone on back down the mountain, wallowing in their own misery and hurt and feelings of resentment. But Sam rallied, thinking more of Frodo than himself, fearing what would happen with Frodo now virtually at the mercy of Gollum. And Frodo was the Ringbearer, and Sam had sworn an oath to protect him and see him through to his ultimate objective.
To me, this is the most beautiful and moving part of all the Lord of the Rings trilogy. This is where good truly triumphed over evil.
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But, see, this happens in the book without having to have Frodo betray their friendship, and Sam remains just as noble.
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AK, I kind of disagree with you about Sauron. Sauron sort of...fades out, to me. He's less scary because he's less there, as though he's become some kind of abstraction. For all it mattered, the Big Flaming Eye could have been a searchlight...or the Bat-Signal.
At the very least, they could easily have done the big smoky hand at the last, where he reaches out one last time as if trying to hold Middle-Earth for himself somehow. I could even have settled for the hand reaching toward Mount Doom as if to grab for the Ring, instead.
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I remember when reading the books that the scariest Sauron moment for me was when Pippen actually SEES him (doesn't he actually see him?) in the palantir and hears his voice in a deeply intimate, very personal manner. yeesh. That made him more real to me as the complete evil and adversary in the story. In the movie, it's a little fire, some smoke and a gravelly voice...but I'd love to have heard some more of Pippin's description of what he saw, how he felt etc...
In the movie, the adversary with all the strength seemed to be the ring. I guess this wasn't so bad, but I found myself being more scared of IT than I ever was of Sauron. Either way, it worked.
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Well, it's debateable whether or not Sauron, after creating the Ring and investing his native power heavily into it, was more powerful than the Ring, strictly speaking.
After all, if the right person took up the ring-Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel, Elrond, or Cirdan possessed and mastered the Ring (which they could all do, in becoming mastered themselves), they would without much trouble supplant Sauron.
Granted, the Ring answer's Sauron's will while Sauron exists in Middle-Earth, but I think it is more powerful than him, as far as raw power is concerned. Sauron never reckoned on losing it, after all, so he saw no problem in dumping so much of himself into it.
The Sam frame-up, while handled very well and movingly, was completely unneccessary. I understand why it was done, though. To give the movie more psychological tension. In the book the tension was, "Will Gollum or Smeagol win out?" but in the film it wasn't so much a question of Gollum losing as it was of who he brings down with him.
Edit: I wish they'd added more surprise at Pippin's refusal (however short-lived) of Sauron in the Palantir. It's one of the more remarkable occurrences showing just how unique and capable Hobbits really are. Very few people, outside of the Wise, could have done anything but tell Sauron their names immediately, but Pippin managed to hold out. And he ain't even growed up yet:)
quote: On being asked if he could relate to his character, Pippin: "Strangely enough, the first time I tried to read the book I was on holiday in Florida. I dropped it in the pool my first day there. If that's not a Pippin thing to do, I don't know what is."
quote: 12/1/2002: Topped list of top 100 Most Eligible Men in Scotland
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I heard a critic say that RotK redeemed the whole series for him, that it lifted it up to a new level. I feel sort of the same way. Does anyone else? I know most of the reviews of the first two movies were fairly positive, but for me, although I have always positively drooled over how perfect everyone and everything looked, I never liked Peter Jackson's storytelling. He seemed to have made a 2 dimensional action flick out of one of my favorite stories of all time. He seemed to make it so much less than it was. However, finally with RotK I was sucked in totally. It won me over completely. I was carried out of myself altogether and into the story which was Tolkien's story, my story, that I love. That look on Faramir's face when he said "If I should return then I hope you'll think better of me." And how stricken he was at his father's unyielding reply. I am getting teary eyed now just thinking about it. It was so wonderful. Eowyn was wonderful.
Elijah Wood was great. His Frodo convinced me. I've thought all along that his Frodo was weak. Nothing at all like the wise, learned, percipient, and courageous hobbit that I knew so well. I think now that they must have trimmed his part because, though he is gorgeous and looks exactly right for Frodo, I don't think he could act or shoulder the really large part of the story that belongs to him. But he made up for it at the end.
Even Gollum was less fakey looking. I know he's a triumph of CGI, completely cutting edge, and all that, but if you watch how he moves, how his hair falls, and everything else, he's pathetically unlike a real creature. Andy Serkis in a suit would have been much better, I think. But in RotK he was a whole lot better than he was before. Somehow this third one just WORKED, in a way that the first two did not work for me. And thank goodness it did. It definitely redeemed the entire series for me.
[ December 20, 2003, 05:45 AM: Message edited by: ana kata ]
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I thought showing Smeagol/Deagol's story was good, especially for those who haven't read the book. It set up the later Frodo/Sam scenes later in the film.
I thought the Frodo/Sam/Gollum betrayals were unnecessary and annoying.
I thought the end of the film was anticlimactic, and it actually took away from the power of the story. We needed the Scouring very badly, because it brings the Hobbits' story full circle.
Perhaps, though, it was all left out because Peter Jackson was telling Gandalf's story throughout the film. It was never about the hobbits, not really. It was about Gandalf and the Ring.
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The scouring only finishes off Merry and Pippin's story...and unfortunately, they weren't a huge part of the movie. To have the scouring as the climax after putting so little emphasis on those two in the movies wouldn't have had the same impact as it did in the book. Frodo and Sam are still brought full circle--their stories completed. That was enough for me, I guess.
I'm still hoping they're just messing with us, and they really did film the scouring--to be released in the EE (seeing as I, along with everyone else who read the books, can fill in the M&P blanks in the movie by heart).
And if they didn't, I think we should start a petition for them to get their asses back into the studio and film it before November. Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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The naked in the dark line was, "[Remember all this stuff from the shire?]... and now we're just naked in the dark."
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I guess that's the only way it made sense to me...but then again I don't have a dirty LotR mind like the WenchCon girls (and guys). Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Yes, that's the line. It made sense to me (and I was waiting for it because I had read some of the reviews before I went to see it.)
ak, that's exactly EXACTLY how I felt about Elijah Wood too. His performance ... well, I've already gone on and on about it. but I loved it!!
I agree with you Frisco about the Merry/Pippin thing. We were just watching the Fellowship and PJ and the screenwriters chose to turn Merry and Pippin into weak, bumbling blockheads, when in the real story, they were friends who cared deeply about Frodo and CHOSE to go with him on his journey and help him with whatever he had to face. In RotK, they pledged allegiance to two different kings, fought bravely, looked death in the face, and grew an entire foot because of the entdroughts. Seeing as how all of this did NOT happen in the movie, the scouring of the shire wouldn't have been very believable or necessary to the audience.
(I was even bummed when they dressed the hobbits back up in their normal hobbit garb at the king's crowning and NOT in their mail and uniforms.)
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I hated that everyone giggled at that part while I was covered in goosebumps from the "You bow to no one." line.
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My theater didn't giggle. We were all crying. (yea even the 60 year old man on my right and all of his friends.) It was a great moment. Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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Yes, I loved that too, when Aragorn said, "Friends, you bow to no one," and then he, the King of Gondor, followed by all his subjects and guests, kneeled and bowed to the humble little hobbits who had saved Middle Earth.
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When Frodo is naked in the tower at Minas Morgul, they get orc clothes to wear.
Where in the heck did they get Frodo's hobbit clothes back for the last 15 minutes of the climb up Mt. Doom?? Did anyone else notice that? He was back in suspenders and knickerbockers after a few minutes of being an orc.
posted
The reason I really hate it that the scouring was left out is that it shows how they apply what they learned in extraordinary situations to their everyday life. That there are orcish ways to act and more noble ones. That there are always Sarumans who secretly plot for their own ends, and Denethors who despair at the odds, and dwarf/elf animosity that threatens to break alliances, but there are also the Sams, who seeming to have no real talents or great learning, no abilities besides homespun resourcefulness, determination, loyalty, and valor, go on to accomplish great things. And there are unlikely deep friendships like Legolas and Gimli's, and unexpected lucky breaks, and the stalwart people of sense like Farmer Maggot. In the end you have to put your OWN home into order, you have a responsibility to your own little world, to take a stand and to fight against the Lothos, the rules and shirrifs, and the Ted Sandyman types and just make things right again. To me without the scouring, the whole thing doesn't hit home so much.
But, there. Most of the people I talked to casually in line and in the theater had never read the book. Maybe now lots more of them will do that. And they'll get the real thing, then, complete and the way it should be.
[ December 20, 2003, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: ana kata ]
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They had recovered his clothes. That isn't made very clear in the movie. They didn't get into orc armor so he would have something to wear, but to hide. The armor was very heavy and hot, and they took it off as soon as they could.
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More will read it than before, true, but generally it probably won't turn book readers into movie goers. Sadly, some people just don't like to read.
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