posted
Jon, nursery duty is the best! Even when someone's crying, or messy, it's still better than listening to our ::yawn:: former engineer of a pastor talking. But then, maybe you have a better speaker to listen to.
Just be careful, my wife used to get upset when all the kids (which she had been watching for a while without me) liked me better.
Edit for goofy mistakes. I hate it when my brain is ahead of my typing.
posted
So, now that BtL has broken the ice, there's a little more support for many parents being nuggetheads, I see.
Let me add my own little anecdote. I used to work at one of the large book chains. This chain often has a children's section with a vcr and seats for children to sit in. It was never explained to me, but I assume this was so the parents could leave their children there to watch a vcr and go book shopping. No attendant or anything, mind you, and it was smack dab in the middle of the children's toys and books.
I have to admit that this was a pretty stupid idea on the company's part. The children are supposed to just sit there and watch the vcr and not play with the toys? Right. So, I fully admit the company was kind of daft in how they arranged it.
The thing that gets me is how few parents actually bothered to have their children put the stuff back on the shelves or cared that their kids took stuff off of the shelves. I mean, it should have been pretty clear to *adults* that the stuff on the shelves was not for playing with and was merchandise. So, I'm not sure what the parents were thinking by letting their kids play with the stuff. Going back to what BtL and Belle were saying, I'm not sure why the heck parents would just leave their pre-school kids there. But then to not have their children put it back and leave the mess they made? That just strikes me as kind of uncivilized. :/
I think a lot of people are being rather harsh on Mrs. M.. Even if it wasn't clear in her initial post, she made it perfectly clear in subsequent posts that she is talking about the retardo parents that don't parent. I think it's clear from the last few posts in this thread that this is something that we can all agree is not a good thing.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
PSI thanks for the idea. Unfortunately I did drop the kid (though not from a great height) that I referred to at Steve's family holiday get together. So I wouldn't even be lying!
quote:Ruth and I just got called to the nursery/primary (they're combined because we only have a couple primary-aged kids). I'm a little scared . . .
I'm in nursery now, and it's fun! We sing, and have conversations about doggies and kitties and ice cream, and make silly faces and silly noises, and pretend to be a train, and build things with blocks, and read stories. (I highly recommend The Complete Adventures of Big Dog and Little Dog by Dav Pilkey.) The kids also like to be swung up into the air while I shout "It's the Amazing Flying [kid's name]!"
(Once I collapsed in the floor in mock exhaustion after swinging some kids around. One little girl announced, "Hey, she's dead!" She started piling plastic toys on me. I have no idea why. I started to get up, but she informed me, "No, lay down. You're dead." Then some of the other kids started piling toys on me. Then we all just busted out laughing.)
I'd much rather hang out with the toddlers than with the uptight ladies in Relief Society.
(I have no kids -- is THAT why they put me in nursery? )
[ January 29, 2004, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Yozhik ]
Posts: 1512 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
| IP: Logged |
posted
Nursery is not my calling. Our church nursery takes 4mths to 2 years and while that age is very nice when it's your own, with other people's kids, I find it absolutely mind numbingly boring. In fact, I think other people's kids start to get interesting at about 2nd grade. Younger is okay, and I have fun with them, but at about 2nd grade, we can really start having some fun.
I *really* like children's ministry. I never thought I would, but I have such a good time with them I almost always enjoy it, even when they are little monsters. I don't have time to do it every week, but our children's ministry is always short handed, so I'm on the sub list rotation. I end up teaching Sunday School for some grade school age at least once a month. That means I never get the same kids twice in a row, and they have to test the boundaries and see how much nonsense I'll put up with. It sounds horrible, but it presents an invigorating challenge, and I always learn something.
Banna, I second what PSI said...when a person says "Hey, she's cute, but she looks best right where she is." I don't take it personally. I'd just as soon only give Rayne over to someone who wants and enjoys her company. I also don't mind at all, and in fact expect, if Rayne needs changing, that she be returned to me so I can do it. Whoever yelled at you was way out of line.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Jon Boy, my friend Molly had that calling until she got pregnant, when they called her to YW.
You know what that means. There's only one way out...
Seriously, though, I think it'll be fun. Ruth has gobs of babysitting experience, so I know she'll do well. I've never had to take care of babies before, so I'm just worried about not knowing what to do when they cry and stuff. But I'm sure it'll be good experience for the future. . . .
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Advice for Robots, your post reminded me of my own childhood. I have very clear recollections of being punished every Sunday during and after church for all manner of misbehaviors. None of which I can recall. I do recall asking every week if I'd been good that day. Like I really didn't know.
And the fact is, I remember NOT knowing if I'd been good or not. I must've been 4 or 5 years old. something along those lines -- able to communicate well enough, but clueless as to the rules and that I had it in my own power to choose to obey them or not.
My god! Raising children must be really difficult.
I'm not sure what exactly to say, but I feel that I should say something.
See, parents who have an incredibly difficult time controlling their children (either from behavorial issues, mental illness, or both), most often come to my agency.
I get assigned to a case to work with the child in the community to start behavior management of the child's symptoms (temper tantrums, temper outbursts, impulsivity, ability to accept limits, etc). Basically, I PURPOSEFULLY take a child into a situation that he or she has a hard time with. Why? Because they have to begin to learn to accept limits and/or learn to manage symptoms. When some progress is made in the community (talking small steps), I also work in the home with the parents in modeling the techniques that have been successful with their kid. The thing is, a parent always knows their kid the best. I might have all kinds of training and experience in behavior management, but a parent is almost always the authority on their child (aside from the child himself).
Anyway. In vivo learning is a very, very good tool. Not all techniques will work in all situations. Sure, redirect a kid, but if he's pissed off enough, he won't buy it. Or if he's too upset, he can't think of anything else and won't pay attention. Sometimes kids are tired and misbehave because they can't quite communicate that they're tired and need to rest or don't WANT to be tired or need attention.
I completely agree that parents shouldn't bring children to inappropriate movies (hell, I saw gremlins when I was seven and had nightmares for a month...and I'm STILL afraid of the dark! o_O ). I agree that children should be left home with a sitter at times for certain restaurants.
But to generalize that parents don't care or aren't trying?
I work with parents from across the spectrum. Even the parents that are reported from DCYF ARE trying their best with their kids. Parents make sacrifices I can't even begin to fathom. They get tired and drawn and worn out and they can't take a break because the children are THEIRS.
And kids are their own person with their own wills and their own personalities. There are can outstanding parents with a "bad" kid and incredibly horrible parents with a "good" kid (I wonder if I'm an illustration of that? *shrug*).
I've also gotten looks and comments when I'm out in the community with my clients. I look..well, not my age (24 in case you don't already know). My youngest client is 4, my oldest is 17. The looks occur with the younger ones, obviously.
The four year old isn't potty trained. Not because he isn't able to do it, because he doesn't WANT to do it. And not because his parents weren't trying their BEST to train him. This kid is incredibly stubborn (Maybe that's why I got assigned to him, I can out-stubborn him ). He got pissed at a bowling alley because the wait was 45 minutes and we didn't have time to wait that long. So he decided he wouldn't leave.
We started the redirection. Then onto limit setting, giving him choices. Finally, I said, "You're leaving right now," took him by the shoulders, and took him out of the alley.
I can't even begin to explain my most trying client. Once, in a park, he decided to strip naked, then tear off across a field, through the woods and to some train tracks. He was eight at the time.
I have no idea WHY he did it. Neither did his mother. But this happens to parents. Kids do things that are inexplicable and are hard to react to and try and strategize on what the heck to DO with this savage.
The parents I work with know that their children have behavior problems. They've no idea (or very little at the start) how to begin to manage it. But every single parent I've worked with has expressed, more than once, that they are embarrassed, sorry, and feel so bad that their kids act the way they do, especially towards me.
And they're always confused when I say, "I WANT him/her to show me those behaviors."
But there are unacceptable situations to bring children into, aside from life's limitations. A rated R movie or a fancy restaurant (with littler ones), sure. But to generalize that parents don't give a crap, don't care, or have no idea what they're doing? That's crap.
Parents are people, too.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
I know folks think I am too strict with Nathan, but honestly, all my "training", "reading" and professional help/advice have shown one thing - he responds to physical stimulus. Period. Time out rarely works, reasoning is ridiculous, grounding has no effect, taking away privileges, offering privileges, etc - nothing. Thank GOD he's generally extremely well-behaved. But when he chooses to act up - that's it. And I don't like getting to the screaming level because then I've lost it.
I don't remember who said it, but he/she was right. I swore I would never yell at my child, make my child eat or take a nap, spank my child, etc.
Guess what . . .
Ahhhh - the joys of parenting.
All humans, big or ittle, are sooooo complex and different. Ya gotta love 'em - and ya gotta do what works. And hopefully, you'll achieve both without radically ofending 9/10's of the population.
But you know - it's okay by me if I do. My mother was offended that I wouldn't reinforce "no" with slapping. Instead I chose to "childproof" and allow safe areas for exploration. Most older women I knew (and quite a few younger) had numerous issues with breastfeeding, in public OR at home. The list goes on -
I just try to take into account the global picture. Posts: 5609 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I admit, even though we've gotten a little more light-hearted in this thread toward the end, Mrs. M's initial posts still rankle me.
I'm trying not to haul off with a knee jerk reaction though, and talk about other things, and then here comes mack....
I know we had a long thred some time ago (couple years maybe?) about whether or not someone who wasn't a parent could understand what it was like or was in a position to offer advice to parents. It got rather heated, with a lot of non-parents saying "I don't have to be a parent to know what's best for kids."
I don't want to see this go in that direction, but I do have to say that her insinuation that all parents are inconsiderate (with the LONE exception of Olivia) has still got me rather pissed.
Mrs. M - you don't understand. You just don't. You won't until you have kids of your own. Until then, you need to lay off or you're going to continue to offend a lot of people.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mack you're somewhat different that most non-parents dear. Your job requires you to be in the trying situations parents find themselves in, as you explained above. And, your job puts you in a position where you have responsibility and care and concern for your clients 24 hours a day.
Your situation is the closest one can come to the experience of a parent, I would say.
And Shan - sorry but Olivia was the one that was singled out as a lone exception.
*sigh*
This is my hot button issue. I'm probably more upset by her comments than I should be. See, I've been spending a lot of time lately considering ministry to young mothers. I've found myself in the position of exhorter, lay counselor, and shoulder to cry on for a bunch of overwhelmed, stressed out Moms lately. I just think there are too many people who look at them (and at me!) and say "She doens't have a job, all she has to do all day is take care of her kids, so why aren't they better behaved?" Unfortunately, these people have never been in our shoes and don't have any clue what it really entails.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Mrs. M - you don't understand. You just don't. You won't until you have kids of your own. Until then, you need to lay off or you're going to continue to offend a lot of people.
She doesn't have to understand what parents go through to be justified in bitching that many parents let their children run around all willy-nilly, endangering their safety and the safety of others.
And do you honestly think that she literally meant that Olivet was the only good parent in the entire world?
Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
*Peeks around her favorite stuffed animal and blinks tearfully at mack - is that like an e-mail thing or do I actually have to submit information? Remember, we're dealing with a wee bit of paranoia here. Ask Icky - he couldn't even GIVE me money through that place . . . *
Posts: 5609 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I read this as "Chill-Free Theaters and Refrigerators."
Yeah, the theater I get, but that refrigerator thing threw me for a loop.
My personal way of dealing with strangers' rambunctious/crying kids in public places is to play peekaboo with either my hands or the nearest large object. Distraction is the better part of valour. Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
My four-year-old son is scary good. He says please and thank you, he's soft-spoken, he cleans up after himself. My other two are, respectively, active but not bratty, and quiet and good. Servers in restuarants tell us they're very well-behaved.
My husband goes to school after work every weeknight until 11 pm. I have to take my kids with me to my church callings.
When I was the assistant scout leader, the scout leader was appalled that I brought my kids to her house with me. (Of course, HER 4-year-old boy is the one who breaks toys and kicks little girls in the head in nursery). A couple of weeks into the calling, she informed me she had worked out a deal with another sister in the ward, that I'd drop off my kids with her (including the nursing infant, apparently) and take her son to scouts. I'm pretty sure she thought she was being nice; however, I wasn't comfortable leaving my kids with this sister (I have once before, my kids came back with bruises from the other kids and with stains on their clothes) so I politely refused. And the next Sunday, I was informed I was released.
Along the same vein, a sister I visit teach who is otherwise very nice grills me about having children. "You're not having MORE, or you?" (She has fewer children and a lot more money.)
And the sister in charge of enrichment, my new calling, is upset when I can't make it to meetings on weeknights because of my kids.(If one is throwing up, then the whole evening is shot.) She feels that if I can't do a church calling properly because of being a mom, I shouldn't have kids.
I almost want to get pregnant with twins just to spite 'em.
My point is, I think it's interesting how many people who ARE parents are still intolerant of children. Even in the LDS church, which is, theoretically, pro-baby.
Though I must mention how many kind sisters watch me sprint into church at 11:45 am, 15 minutes before it ends, and seem to read in my eyes that I've been up since 6 am trying to get every diaper changed and tummy full and body dressed and just didn't make it, and who simply say, "Hey, nice to see you. Glad you made it."
I'd also like to mention the time a few years back when my husband and I had just gotten assigned to a new town. We knew no one, we lived in a horrible little apartment, we were poorer than we are now, we were having troubles. We needed to get out. We went to a super-nice restaurant with our year-old-son. The servers all smiled and were so kind to us when we desperately needed it, we nearly cried in gratitude. We make a point of going back to that place (sans kids) every year.
Sorry, I do go on. I guess this is a hot-button issue for me, too. I think that, more and more, there is a divide between the family culture and the non-family culture, and even some parents I know (and go to church with) aren't into "the whole family thing" and avoid the trappings of parenthood as much as possible.
posted
I appreciate your post, Sachiko. Nice to meet you, BTW.
Bob, we're pretty easy on our kids as far as their behavior in church. There's no punishment after church for their being restless. We do try to discuss it with Emily regularly, and we try to bring activities that will help her stay quiet. If Emily acts up, I take her out to the foyer, and don't let her go down to run around, and don't let her do anything until she asks to go back in and sit with Mommy. We're not harsh. If you ever attended an LDS sacrament meeting, you would find it rather on the loose, open end of Sunday services as far as structure and congregation behavior. There's nobody walking around with a stick and thumping people when they fall asleep.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
First, I didn't mean that Olivia is the only good parent in the world or on Hatrack and I have amended that post to reflect that. I think that every Hatrack parent is a caring mom or dad who does his or her best to raise a happy, healthy child who will grow into a happy, healthy adult. Never did I think that what I said to Olivet would offend others. When I wrote that post, it was very early in the thread and it was the last post I had read before typing my reply. My intention was to let Olivet know that I wasn't lumping her in with the parents I was referring to. The posts between hers and mine were written before I posted mine. I guess I forgot that I wasn't exactly talking to Olivet in private and that although I was addressing her, others would also hear what I was saying. I also thought that this thread would die out after a dozen or so posts.
I never meant to imply that any Hatrack parents are bad parents who don't care what their children do. I am truly sorry that people took my words that way. solo, ela, Belle - it never entered my mind that you aren't excellent parents, so I didn't think I had to say that I think you are.
I never meant this to turn into a child behavior thread. I just wanted to see what people thought about having a very few places that were child-free. I used that term deliberately, because saying adult-only has some, um, negative connotations. I don't want to ban children from entering public places. I don't want to change family-friendly restaurants. I don't want people to stop taking their children to movies. I just want one or two alternatives for myself.
Maybe if I share something personal, it will make my perspective clearer. I love children. Andrew and I desperately want to have children. For the entire time we have been married, we have been trying to conceive. We have spent a huge chunk of our savings. I have taken pills and shots that have taken their toll on my body and mind. We have given up bedroom romance for clinical techniques. Seven months after we were married, I got pregnant on our fourth try. Only people who have experienced infertility can know how ecstatic we were. I have never experienced such pure joy.
Try to imagine what it was like for us when I lost that baby. I hope none of you ever experience anything like it. The guilt and despair are overwhelming. I haven't been able to get pregnant since and every month that goes by, my already-slim chances decrease. Then there's the fact that I am accomplishing what Hitler could not and ending the Marx line (Andrew's grandparents are the only survivors from their families). Andrew's brother will never have children, so we're it. I am failing in my most basic duty to the person I love most in the world. There's not a day that goes by that that doesn't eat at me. Then there's the fact that several of my friends have had babies. I am genuinely happy for them, but it's hard to see them easily succeeding where I have tried and failed so many times. I want to share the experience of being a young mom with my friends.
The people who suggested that I am unsympathetic to parents are right. It's hard for me to have sympathy for any and every parent because I would gladly give all that I own to be in their shoes. I know it's unfair and unreasonable of me and I'm sorry.
Belle, it is hard for me to feel compassion for the problems of young mothers because it is my dream to have those problems. You overcame your PCOS to have 4 beautiful children. I am not so lucky and I probably never will be. Every time I see parents with their children I think, why them and not us? There are times when being around children is difficult for me and for Andrew. We realize that that's our problem and we try our best to keep it to ourselves. But infertility takes its toll on a marriage and there are times when we like to take a night off from the heartache. We're simple people - we like to go out to supper and to the movies. On nights like these, we don't want to be around children. We need to not be around children. I just want someplace where we can go.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mrs M, I'm sorry I got snappy with you earlier in the thread. It seemed to me that you came out swinging and this topic really touched a nerve from me. It seems that the desire to protect my children can bring out the beast in me and that's not fair.
And for the record, I'd rather die than let my kids run around in a busy restuarant.
Posts: 1481 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Like many of the other parents, I was offended by the initial post. Despite the fact that my boys generally get compliments on their public behavior, I am hypersensitive to the critical glances of those around us.
It's like the difference between saying to someone, "I'm fat," and a stranger coming-up to you and saying, "You're fat."
As a parent, I'm already so sensitive to the issues that it is something that only I can criticize in myself without feeling snarked at.
Because of this, I am very sympathetic to the struggling mother and grateful to the CT's of the world who make my kids like people.
I was a waitress for years and certainly spend alot of time now, out and about at both public places and in private homes. Only two things really irk me: 1)When the parents yell at, belittle or hit the child that has misbehaved and 2)When I see an unattended child who is younger than 10.
In both instances, I feel like I'm in a no win situation: Get involved and feel the wrath of the parent; don't get involved and fear for the safety of the child.
I think that we could go a long ways towards getting the kids out of the adult restaurants if there were more kid friendly restaurants that offered decent/interesting food.
I think it's a shame that you're forced to eat a greasy burger or bland pizza if you want to eat-out and let your kids have fun at the same time. Why do they only have play areas at places that serve lousy/boring food.
As a parent, I'd love to be able to go to a decent restaurant, have the kids behave like properly trained humans for 15 minutes until the order is placed; let them play for 30 minutes while waiting for the food; then have them sit and eat for 15 minutes.
If there were places like this available, you'd never have to worry about me taking the kids into an intimate restaurant.
Regarding theaters, I have been disturbed by cell phone conversations and rowdy teens many more times than by noisy children. Luck of the draw I guess.
I take my 8 yr old and his friend to the movies at least twice a month. We see PG and PG13 movies that fit in with what the kids know and like. I'll look at the content first and the rating second. Sometimes we go to a matinee, sometimes we'll go after dinner.
My kids are night owls. They stay up until 11PM on school nights and 12:30 on Friday and Saturday. They are happy, healthy, at the top of of their classes in school and on-time every morning. I mention this to rebut the idea that having a child up until midnight is child abuse.
In general, I just can't see banning kids from restaurants and theaters because they're a "nuisance". As has been said before, I've encountered more ill behaved adults than children and noone is offering me and my family a "jerk free" zone.
Sadly, I agree that those who don't want to be around children for whatever reason should have that right. I just don't want the only good theater or the only decent restaurants in my area to suddenly become off-limits.
Mrs M- I know so many people who have the exact same heartache.
One of my best friends of many years, started to avoid me when I had my first son. Hurt, I asked why. She said that it just hurt too much to be around my son. She said it was like putting salt on a wound and she couldn't put herself through that, not even for our friendship.
I can empathize with your point of view and I wish you the very best in your efforts to have a baby.
Posts: 2425 | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm kinda split on this one...the movies is a no brainer. I would pay extra to not hear a kid whine. But restaurants...sometimes there is nothing better for me than making faces at a two or three year old as a date turns sour. But when they reach an age where cuteness has worn off and they can't behave y'know around 7 it gets annoying to hear a tantrum. My fiance fears the day we have kids because if they are like me they'll be easily entertained by anything...as in the stirring soap opera "All My Condiments." Sisters Salt Shaker and Pepper Shaker are involved in a love triangle with the tall, built Ketchup Bottle. While Detective T.(Tabasco) Sauce matches wits with criminal mastermind/business tycoon Sir Worchester of Saucery. Posts: 5 | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't have much to add to what's already been said. We've been lucky so far in that Ryan has never cried or complained the few times we've taken him to restaurants. Even during a period where he was really fussy about eating (acid reflux), he was perfectly fine when we had to feed him at a restaurant once. And yes, I know, that won't always be the case. We will, however, take him out immediately if he begins to be a disturbance.
Mrs.M, I want you to know that your in my thoughts and prayers and have been for a while. My wife and I went through infertility, so I know what it feels like each time the results comes back negative and I know how painful it can be sometimes to be around babies. I can only imagine what it is like to become pregnant and lose the child.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
mrs. M, I'm glad you posted because after last night, I was thinking (I was in bed and couldn't sleep) and it occurred to me that your infertility problems might be one of the reasons you reacted the way you did.
I know about your struggle with PCOS and I do sympathize and I do know exactly how you feel. I should have been more considerate, and I should have had more compassion about your own situation.
I remember when I was undergoing treatment having to leave a party in tears because all the women there were excitedly talking about one woman's impending childbirth. She was nine months along and in fact she did go into labor late that night after the party.
I've moved past that - I'm beyond the frustration and pain of infertility and into the frustration that parenting brings. When I did that though, I should not have forgotten the pain I left behind.
You have my deepest apology for my lack of compassion toward you.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh. I'm sorry, Mrs. M. My heart goes out to you. I'm never sure what to say to those who have trouble having children. We have the opposite problem. I think it's a mixed blessing either way.
And if it's any consolation, I do know what it's like to lose a child.
Anyway, you won't be seeing my kids in any restaurants or theaters, not unless the city I live in builds a dollar theater. Posts: 575 | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
*hugs Mrs. M* Sweetie, I wondered if that was part of the annoyance. I like silence as much as the next person, but the baby-hormones aren't simmering in me, so I don't notice children. It's like when you're shopping for a car, all of sudden you notice the make of every car on the road.
quote:There's nobody walking around with a stick and thumping people when they fall asleep.
posted
Thanks for the kind words, y'all. They do make me feel better.
Controlling my envy of parents is something I work on. I realize that everyone has something that someone else wants. Some of my single friends were in that position when I got married. I understood why they were being snarky, but it still hurt. I've said to people, "Just because I'm married doesn't mean that my life is perfect and all my problems have disappeared." In this thread, the shoe's on the other foot and it never occurred to me to look at it that way.
Belle, my instinct was to be totally unfair to you (and to every other Hatrack parent). "Who cares if her feelings were hurt in Target - she got to go home with her beautiful children." "Who cares that young mothers are exhausted and worried - they have their babies to comfort them." I'm at the point where I (usually) stop those thoughts immidiately and tell myself, "Kira, that's not fair. Just because they have what you want doesn't mean that their problems are invalid." Some days it's just harder than others.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
Now, on to the "other" revelation. It is okay if we add our prayers to yours? I watched a cousin go throught this and it was just hard. No-one understood why she kept trying. And she eventually did adopt a beautiful girl who is every bit her daughter and her husband's daughter. But the process of getting to that decision was painful for everyone. And necessary.
Without it, our family wouldn't have X and she's the best kid we could've ever asked for. Bright, beautiful and charming. And she's just as much part of the family as any of the other kids.
I know you'll make a great mom simply because you care so much about it. I hope it happens for you in exactly the way you want. And I hope whoever enters your life, through whatever (legal) means, that it gives you great joy!
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
This isn't supposed to be disrespectful, but serious.
quote: Then there's the fact that I am accomplishing what Hitler could not and ending the Marx line (Andrew's grandparents are the only survivors from their families). Andrew's brother will never have children, so we're it. I am failing in my most basic duty to the person I love most in the world. There's not a day that goes by that that doesn't eat at me.
Actually, this reminds me a lot of Isaac and Rebekah...and you know how that turned out!
I don't know if you are a believer in that...sorry, I haven't seen a lot of your posts. But if you are, maybe that can give you a bit of comfort...but maybe you already thought of this yourself.
Posts: 264 | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mrs. M, I am sorry about your infertility problems, and all that you have had to go through. Losing a baby is very hard, especially after all that, too. I have to deal with moms who have lost babies, sometimes, in my job, and I have to admit that at times I am not quit sure what to say to them.
(((Mrs. M)))
I think that LadyDove's remarks here really pinpointed why some of us got offended or bent out of shape by some of the remarks made.
quote:Like many of the other parents, I was offended by the initial post. Despite the fact that my boys generally get compliments on their public behavior, I am hypersensitive to the critical glances of those around us.
It's like the difference between saying to someone, "I'm fat," and a stranger coming-up to you and saying, "You're fat."
As a parent, I'm already so sensitive to the issues that it is something that only I can criticize in myself without feeling snarked at.
As I said in my post, we live in a society that is often intolerant of children, and those of us who are parents have become hypersensitive to criticism, when most of us are doing the best we can, and trying to be considerate of those around us.
quote: Mrs. M, you seem to be generalizing quite a bit here.
You wouldn't remember the golden children who were perfect angels. They fly below your radar.
You are coming accross not as someone who is annoyed at children in restaurants, but of offspring in general. I don't think that you mean to come accross this way.
I agree with Mrs. M. So tell me, what did she or I say that was a generalization?
What is wrong with wanting one restaurant that isn't a circus? NOTHING. I wish I had one that didn't cost $50 a plate in my area. Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I caught about five minutes of Dr. Laura on the radio today, and the call she was taking at the time was a young woman asking if it was okay for her 18mth old son to wander around a bagel shop they went to frequently. Her son, I guess, was a picky eater, and the only way she could get him to eat much at all was to let him walk around with the food in hand. Well, a couple of men, also regulars of the shop, finally said they'd appreciate it if she kept her kid with her rather than letting him wander around.
Now, assuming this child is pretty low key and doesn't get into anything, I still thought this was ridiculous. Not the men. The mom. First, don't most humans, when hungry, eat? I have two kids, both of whom are good eaters, but I figured that part of that was that I was willing for them to go hungry if they were. If they don't eat at the meal, that's their choice. They might find something more to their liking at the next meal or scheduled snack. Secondly, when you give in to a child's weird eating habits when they are little, when does it stop? So he's 18mths old now, is she going to still be held hostage to his walking and eating habit when he's 3? 5? 10? At what point does he start to learn table manners? Does she think it's actually going to get easier as he gets older?
posted
(((Mrs. M))) I have a friend who is getting older and her own family think she doesn't want a baby and she is too proud to tell them. We talked about it the other night and it really rang with what you said.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
AJ, honestly, I was surprised. She said that if the kid isn't doing anything other than looking at people when he wanders around, then it's okay and just ignore the two curmudgeons.
Personally, I don't think kids should wander around restaurants, even in a casual bagel shop. It's *such* a bad habit to start, and can be spectacular to break.
When my son was 3ish, he was SO unpredictable in restaurants that I finally decided that the best thing would be to have a training session. He needed to learn how to behave in restaurants. So I picked a restaurant that is *always* empty, largely because their food sucks. It's awful. We went one night when I was pretty sure Christian was going to be a monster. We were the only customers. When we got to the table, I offered him a booster seat or a high chair. He chose the booster seat, because he could get out of it. I told him that he could stay in the booster seat as long as he...well, as long as he stayed in it. If he got up, he'd have to sit in the high chair. The predictable happened, and I stuffed him into the high chair, where he proceeded to scream bloody murder for a solid half hour. My friend and I just ignored it and ate the awful food when it came. The servers seemed amused once they were clued in to what I was doing.
Long story short, it broke some of the worst of his habits.
I left them a huge tip. They deserved it. Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
But then, maybe you have a better speaker to listen to.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
)![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
>![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
