Hobbes' conversion topic seems to be headed in this direction, but I thought he should have that topic for himself since his baptism happened so recently.
Anyway, my energy just subsided. I'll post mine later. Now, you go ahead.
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(Originally posted in Hobbes' thread. Should I delete it from there?)
In a similar vein, did I ever tell anyone here how close I came to becoming a member of the LDS church myself?
My situation was much like Hobbes' about a year and a half or so ago. From a very young age I was fairly agnostic. My Dad raised us without any religious pressure, pretty much letting us choose what to believe on our own (which I thank him for).
Around age 15 I pretty much decided I believed in God, but wasn't sure. In my infinite wisdom I actually "tested" God on two seperate occasions. The first was after watching Maverick (the Poker movie with Mel Gibson). I said out loud "If God exists and wants to prove his existence to me, have me draw the ace of spades". Amazingly enough I did. I kept the card in my wallet until it was stolen a year or so ago.
After that I was doubting again, and figured I'd do another test. Well, one day a beautiful girl named Victoria was staying over with a group of friends with my brother Mick, in Mick's room. I told God that if he wanted to prove his existence to me for all time, he'd have her come stay in my room with me. You may not believe it, but she knocked on my door an hour later. We talked all that night and became best friends for the next 7 years .
So then I figured that I had gotten far more evidence of divine intervention then pretty much anyone on earth, so I was a believer. Around this time I was already obsessed with OSC's books, and had read Saints, Lost Boys, and Folk of the Fringe. I also started lurking at hatrack around 1998. From these sources, the sense of community that the LDS church had was very attractive to me. Also, certian things about the religion seemed to make sense to me (at least more than other Christain denominations).
I've always thought the Catholic church was historically corrupt and power hungry. Plus I didn't believe in a lot of their core doctrine. The protestant denominations didn't appeal to me because they don't even claim to be divinely inspired, so how could they be the true religion? The LDS church I liked because it said that God is still very active into the lives of its followers, had no seperate priest class, believed in marriage lasting into heaven, and some other things too that made sense to me.
So I was already interested. Over this time I had fallen deaply in love with the girl mentioned earlier and we were extremely close. Then when I was about 19 I think, without even knowing that I was "investigating" the church, she went and converted to being LDS. When she told me one day, she was very surprised that I actually knew much more about the history of the church than she did .
We weren't officially dating then, but our feelings for eachother were an open secret. Around this time she asked me to read the BoM, and I did. I also went to the Hill Cumorah pagent with her.
The problem was that I really never got the "holy ghost" feeling that Hobbes described. Also, having been raised in a secular environment, a lot of the Christain faith was hard for me to swallow. Even still, a little while later Victoria started having a crisis of faith, and she wasn't sure if she even still believed in the church.
So for a while nothing really happened to push me either way. Then after some personal tragedy, and learning more about the history of Christianity and the LDS church, not only do I doubt I will ever become a Mormon, I'm not sure if I even still believe in God (my two "tests" being over six years ago).
My official stance is that I don't believe in God. It just doesn't seem rational. Despite logic though, I still pray to Him every couple weeks or so. Kind of strange that.
Anyway, I'm not sure why I felt the need to tell everyone this, but oh well . Maybe just to tell the story of someone who had a spiritual journey much like Hobbes' who went the other way.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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I'm a Methodist. When I went to church when I was little people all seemed to believe my religion was true, so I beleived it. I personally have found it to have a lot of wise ideas about a lot of basic problems, and I have never found any good reason to reject it. I've seen some alternatives that seem reasonable, but the majority either teach things that just seem wrong, or are based on ideas and stories that just don't seem plausible to me. So, here I am.
I suppose my church has an advantage in that it doesn't try to force too much doctrine on us. I'm sure I disagree with my pastor with a number of religious issues, but as we agree on the fundamentals and the desire to have some kind of relationship with God, it's all good. Thus, I probably won't find too many reasons to leave it, unless I ever stop believing in God or Christ or something basic like that. Right now, I don't see why I would.
So, here I am!
(Edit: I've never had an special spiritual moments or anything like that. I usually view people who claim they do with a bit of skepticism, although I believe a fair number probably actually have had such an experience. I, though, have difficulty understanding what it would be like to know for sure that God exists based on a feeling.)
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I don't subscribe to a religion and I consider myself fairly agnostic, though spiritual. The largest reason I don't choose one religion over the other is because there are so many, all with different ideas, morals etc. Which ideas are right? Does it matter if I have my own? Most churches have at least one idea I couldn't live with, and therefore I choose to go my own way.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I was raised in the LDS church but stopped going when I went to college and was dating a presbyterian. But I was miserable so I came back and read the Book of Mormon and was happy.
Got married, then my first baby died. Then I wasn't sure God existed because every time I opened the scriptures it seemed he was mocking me. But I was trying to reject the spirit and just live the law. Because having feelings really hurt.
It was actually a sunday school lesson where the teacher said we need the spirit and the scriptures both, or we'll wind up like the five foolish virgins who didn't bring extra oil. So I knew that I had to get over rejecting all emotion.
It really stunk to go through, but I was driving in my car one day, and realized that it is good to have feelings and they aren't always bad and painful. I still can't really explain why my first child would have died, except that it has happened to a lot of other people (and not just King David and Bathsheba). But I'm not angry at God about it anymore.
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I am catholic. I became that way, because at age one, I was baptized into the catholic without any input from me. I like it pretty much. However, when I move out, I plan to do research and see which religion I like the best.
-Past noon, guess what that means...
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Born Catholic. Converted to Baha'i around the age of 11, when I realized that most of Catholic doctrine was completely incompatible with reality.
Lost faith in God's existence around the age of 15 or 16, while on pilgrimage to Israel (ironically, during the Gulf War and the Wailing Wall massacre). Officially left the church at 20, when I realized it was hypocritical of me to pretend to believe something.
I've been waiting to hear the voice of God ever since.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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i grew up in the Seventh Day Adventist relgion, but as I got older it got like a too tight skin on a snake. The doctrine started to make no sense to me, all this talk about the End of the World, the Rapture scared me and made no sense to me. Igrew up expecting it to happen. Nothing. I disliked all the dietary laws. I didn't like the hypocrisy I saw all around me, people who were so convinced they would be the Chosen Few. I also disagreed with the ideas on Gayness So I started to read about things like Wicca and shamanism hoping that something would fit better. Then there was Rumi to consider. When I first heard Rumi it was like... this perfect water, satisfying this deep thirst. The wise ideas of each poem. IT was lovely. So I thought I didn't believe in God, but I seem to... Just not in a way that can be understood or explained. I don't have a specific religion, but I seem to pray about 50,000 times a day for a friend of mine. Praying seems so... passive... I wish there was more I could do than just pray. So I'm a heathen, possibly a pagan, some kind of mystic who believes in living what I believe.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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There was a really offensive add that the Seventh Day Adventists took out in our news paper. It was a full page of bashing Catholics. It was slightly disconcerting to find that the paper allowed it. If I took out an add for the KKK, they would not print it, so, you know....
Posts: 262 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Really? I never knew that. What did the ad say? Another thing that frustrated me about being SDA is listening to folks criticise other religions. At least more like listening to them say, This is the Only One True Religion. I totally got dogpiled during Thanksgiving.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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i grew up fairly agnostic, my parents took me to unitarian universalist church (is that the word for it?) once in awhile but nothing serious. my mom decided to convert to the Baha'i faith when i was 13 or so, and i got really into that until i went to a residential magnet school my junior year and started having sex. Ayn Rand might have had something to do with that too. from there it's been a slow progression from apathy to agnosticism to athiesm. i'm not an angry athiest, and to be honest i'm not really athiest, i just think it's more probable that there's no God, at least in the Christian sense. i guess i just felt like all this talking about religion was ultimately futile as its very premise (the existence of God or an afterlife) was inherently unprovable, and decided to spend my time and intellectual effort thinking about things that actually made sense. i've sort of realied that while life might be easier with religion, it's not necessary, and at least philosophically speaking it seems easier to circumvent it all to me.
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Grew up nothing, my dad's the child of a Baptist minister, my mom's parents are Protestant, I believe...or Presbyterian, one of the P's. Part of that family is Catholic, though, too. Anyhow, we never attended church except for 6 months during which I was sent to Sunday School, which I despised worse than life itself. I felt stifled and confused all the time, I couldn't understand why the teacher would read stories and then tell us that we were NOT allowed to clap for them. I liked clapping for stories, because I was a big reader (I won the MS-Read-a-thon in 1st grade, for my entire elementary school. I read more books than the sixth graders!) So i purposefully disobeyed her, and then she conveniently forgot to celebrate my birthday with the Sunday School plastic cake.
Beyond that annoyance, I always remember being really uncomfortable in churches in general, and the stories and lessons the Bible had to teach -- I have a hysterical memory of myself in my room at 6 or 7 making up a song that went something like: "Who cares about what Moses did, who cares about what David did, they're STUPID!" and kind of rapping to myself. Alone. In my room.
I was kind of an odd child.
My belief in Jesus went first, almost without thought. I had spoken to my mom about it and she said she thought that he was a very great man, but not a god. That made perfect sense to me. Then, slowly, I began trying to get God to prove his existence to me by being as sincere and humble as possible...I would kneel by my bed at night, praying, asking for him to show me any sign that would let me believe. I got the same response from him as I got when I asked Santa Claus if I could hear the sleigh bells like the boy from Polar Express....absolutely nada. I kind of put my search on the back-burner then.
In middle school I didn't think about religion, but Freshman year of high school I befriended these three seniors (i say befriended, they probably thought I was just cute and silly)one of them, named Jane, had a Lutheran minister for a father. She was a step away from atheism, and was always making really sarcastic comments about God and the like...it was the first time I was ever like: "should these comments offend me? because i'm not offended..."
Something completely unexpected happened then -- Jane -- the spokesperson for Down With Organized Religion! -- got a crush on this deeply religious dude. She was gone from that moment on. She even went to....oh, man, what's it called...something spectacular and divine...Celebration...no...it's some teenagery Christian gathering, dangit. That'd going to bother me now. I think it begins with a "C"...anyhow, she went there and was filled with the spirit of God and Jesus and saw people speaking in tongues, so she was converted.
It was like, the weirdest thing ever. Plus, she started trying to convert not only me, an impressionable young'un, but her two best friends, who weren't having any. She drove me home from a play rehearsal one night and sat with me in the car, trying to coach me through finding God. Very matter-of-factly, she told me about how she had tried to convert her best friend Marci, but eventually gave up. She said to me: "I want to save her soul, but there's nothing I can do. And Jesse (god dude she loooved) says that I can't worry about her, if she doesn't believe then she'll go to hell and burn for eternity."
The callous, nonchalant manner in which she told me this left me unable to speak. I just kind of grunted something that I'm sure sounded like an agreement, and got the heck out of that car. We never really spoke much after that.
After the Jane Experience, I began my own search for belief. The thing was, I kept coming back to...not really having any. I was recommended The Happy Heretic by Judith Hayes in my search by a good friend, and it had just enough bite in it to completely convince me that I just did not believe in any God as defined in any current religion. Now, that book is horrendously biased and not very polite, but it was just the kick in the pants I needed to say: "Hey, i don't actually believe in God. and that's that."
And it's been pretty much the same every since, and that was about three or four years ago. Seems like an eternity, guess it hasn't really been that long I love engaging in religious debate, especially with Strider, because we view things almost identically so one of us will play devil's advocate or just postulate a new theory of what "god" could be, and run with it. My very best girl friend is a Christian, not intensely, but she has her quiet faith. I respect that and religion never really enters into our friendship.
I was once asked by a member of this board whether I would classify myself and a "militant" atheist or an "apathetic" atheist. I said neither, because one implies that I try to force my views on others, and the other implies that I am only not believing in God because it just sounds cool. Neither of which is in the slightest bit true.
All-in-all, i'm really very comfortable with my faith. Or lack there-of. I was never comfortable believing in any God, and I was never comfortable trying to make him "show himself" to me. And now I feel really at peace, not like I'm constantly trying to make good to a strict deity, and not like I'm searching for something that can never be proven. I feel like I'm just kind of...living my life, and doing the best I can with what I know and what makes me happy.
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I grew up Methodist. Went to church camp. Went to a Christian college. After college I stopped going to church because I was lazy. Now I don't go because I have lost faith in religion.
I realized a couple months ago that my "faith" wasn't real. All along I've just been going through the motions. Since Day One, being "religious" never really felt right, but I didn't understand why until I realized that I was only doing what I was brought up to believe I should do, not because I actually thought it meant anything.
I still believe...in something. I can't wrap my mind around the idea that the universe and humanity just poof! exists. And I'm not necessarily giving up on Christianity. I just think that I've got to have faith based on my own beliefs, not anyone else's. And if anyone has any tips on how I can explain that to my family, feel free to email me.
Anyway, I guess I'm just in limbo at this point. There is one person I trust to actually listen to me and give me some perspective, but I'm waiting for the logistics to work out. Until then, I'll be soaking up perspective in threads like this.
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One word-"don't I tried explaining my odd views or at least asking the question-"But how do you know your beliefs are the ONLY true ones. Got dog piled. It was not pretty. So when I call my mother up and she fusses a bit about me eating duck or something, I don't say much. I say as little as possible.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Yeah, I'm afraid to tell my brother I like Harry Potter (at least he's a lotr fan), and I think my mom has finally gotten the clue to stop lecturing me about going to church, but she still thinks I'm just lazy.
Posts: 1090 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Neither of my parents are religious. You could even say my mom's pretty anti-religion. Or, honestly, anti-western-religions. She's okay with Taoism, ancestry worship, and Buddhism, for example. My dad was raised with some form of Christianity, but God doesn't seem to affect his life these days. I think my mom's pretty glad about that.
I attended an Episcopalian elementary school from K-5th grades. We had chapel every morning for 30 minutes, prayed every weekday, sang songs, listened to sermons, the whole spiel. My parents sent me there because it was the best education in the area and to "let me become familiar with Christianity." Religion never stuck to me, really. I found it kinda interesting, but it was never more than a fancy in elementary and middle school.
In high school I looked into Pagans, but I realized quickly that the pagan community is pretty divided, and it's easy to fall prey to the commercial we-sell-pretty-rocks pagan communities. Liked the atmosphere, personalities, and touchy-feely'ness of the pagans, but didn't feel strongly about them.
In college, I studied religious studies, but consciously avoided Christianity and Judaism. The requirements are pretty low at Brown for an RS major, only eight classes. I took courses in Buddhism, Taoism, Greek Religion, Spiritualist Movements, and Hinduism. Early on, you learn that even the feel-good Buddhists have a lot of hatred and Bad Stuff in their history (monks killing other monks, sect rivalry, pedophilia, intolerance). I enjoyed the un-intellect of the Rinzai Zen tradition, and I enjoy meditation as a part of understanding the self.
So, I'm pretty strongly agnostic. Not atheist. I like a lot of religions. I've attended a Christian Science meeting, and appreciate the vibes I get from them. I like the Unitarian Church because of their vibe, as well. Just not into that singular-God thing, or Institution-mandated-morality.
To me, many many actions have an element of "bad" or "sin" or "wrong" or fill-in-appropriate-term-here. Eating meat, eating carrots, hurting a friend's feelings, hurting an enemy's feelings... All these things carry a negative weight to them. It's simply a matter of choosing your threshold of actions for self and society's sake. When in doubt, "An it harm none, do what thou wilt" (the Wiccan Rede).
Posts: 1892 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Mine is pretty simple, I grew up attending church rather sporadically because my stepDad claimed to be Catholic but was pretty anti-religion of any kind. My grandparents took me to church as much as possible.
One day God just let me know that He was real. I just knew it in my heart and my head and in every fiber of my being that He was real. Then for a while I ignored Him. I knew he was real, I never doubted his existence but I just didn't really devote my attention to it.
A few years back, I just sort of began reading the Bible regularly again. And I begin to feel more in touch, and then one day I got to where I could feel Him working in my life. I won't go into specifics, because some of it is so intensely personal it's really hard to put into words. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that He is real.
And now I'm in the midst of writing a plan for a new ministry our church will be starting. From the daughter of a lapsed Catholic and a southern Baptist that stayed home every Sunday to keep the peace, to someone dedicating themselves to full time ministry work. God is amazing.
Now, it's time for
I like the sleepy smiley, I rarely get to use him.
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There are a surprising number of Baha'is and ex-Baha'is on this board, relative to the general population. We should start a club or something. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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i think i have said before that when i discovered there was no santa clause, i knew that adults could lie to me and that when my parents got divorced, iknew they could lie to themselves. somewhere in there i started to question all the stuff they had told me, and discovered that my "belief" in god just didn't exist.
much as i pretended for years to not know about santa, i pretended for years to believe. in part because i really wanted, to and i really tried to, but i just didn't have any faith. i still don't.
i don't believe he doesn't exist. i just don't know. if he does, only he's going to make me believe, but i'm not taking that lack of yes as a no.
Posts: 3956 | Registered: Jun 2001
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It's funny celia, your post is the reason I don't teach my kids to believe Santa Claus.
As far as my religion, I'm Christian. I don't know how I got to be that way because I've always been one, and my parents weren't exactly talking about Jesus a lot or taking me to church (althought I think we must have gone once or twice). I just can't ever remember a time where I didn't believe that Jesus was God, nor could I ever fathom not trying to do what He wanted me to. I'm not sure where I got it from.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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I grew up in the Baptist-Belt of Canada. My parents insisted I go to church for several years. While they weren't religious they thought I should be able to make my own choice and went along with me every week. I loved the first two years of it with my Sunday school teacher Mrs. Eagle's. The stories were just stories to me (hey, I was 5), but a lot of my friends were there and, like I said, Mrs. Eagle's was cool. Then I advanced on to the next "grade" and hated it on account of some completely illegal fondling that occurred. I figured that's just what happened at church. About a year later while we were living in Spain I told Mom that I was glad I didn't have to go to Church there because of what went on behind closed doors, so to speak. This was the first she'd heard of it and was naturally livid but when we returned to Canada a year later the teacher had left town. I can't even remember her name. Anyway, by the time I was 14 or so I decided that I ought to explore some other churches in the area but none of them rang anything close to true to me. To be honest, the more I learn about different religions the more nutty I think they all are. I wouldn't call myself an atheist or an agnostic; I really don't care either way. If there isn't a God that doesn't impact me in any way and if there is one I trust he/she/it will leave me alone and let me live the life I choose.
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Raised Southern Baptist (like regular Baptists but louder) and very devoted to the church. Went to every outing, sang in the choir and in solos, read the Bible several times and argued over passages.
Which is what ultimately led to me walking away from Christianity, the arguments. There were just too many inconsistencies for me to reconcile, too many things I couldn't accept from any God I was willing to worship. The Book of Job actually angered me (the guy's family was murdered, with God's permission, but it's okay because he kept quiet and now he has a nice new family?) and still did up until a few years ago when I read Bishop Spong's suggestion that Job was written as a lesson to keep the Jews strong in their faith during their years of slavery and separation ("put up with everythig and you will be rewarded"), in which case it's understandable, if still abhorent to me.
But while a lot of the little things can either be dismissed or explained away without affecting faith at all - I never really cared where Cain got his wife, for example, or how Noah fit all those creatures on his boat, and if you don't insist on six literal 24-hour days then Genesis and evolution fit together just fine - there were two major concepts that I finally rejected flat out. I couldn't accept that children must carry the blame for their parents' actions, which is a running theme through a good chunk of the OT and the basis for Original Sin. And I couldn't accept that my only road to salvation lies through someone else taking responsibility for my actions. Since both ideas are integral to Christianity, Christianity and I parted ways.
Spent about six years studying other faiths but only for my own curiosity, not because I had any needs to replace the religion I gave up. Once I decided that Christianity wasn't for me, I couldn't really see just picking another one and saying "Yep, that's the one I'll believe in from now on."
Now a cheerfully apathetic agnostic ("apatheist"). I'm still interested in religious matters, but only to the extent that it affects other people.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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...dude, that's some crazy *&%#. I feel like I was so innocent when I was growing up there; I was even oblivious to the Bible belt nature of the Valley until much later.
I guess that's an indicator of how little it impacted me. My mother is one of the protestant denominations, but my father isn't religious. Like BtL, I went to Sunday School and church with my parents during my early years, and certainly didn't mind it. I met some great friends there, actually. In fact I even once spent a week at a camp titled "Vacation Bible School." Anyway, I was exposed to religion, but my parents and I didn't really talk about it. They just let me decide for myself what I believed in.
It was about Grade Eight when I started wondering what exactly it was that I believed in. We had to write a short essay, and I wrote mine about what I thought about God and free will and whatnot. I decided that I believed God existed, but that God only decided the major highlights of a person's life and we were left to manage the details ourselves (i.e. so-and-so will be born in this year). A little while after writing that, I realized that I had no idea why it was I thought God existed. I certainly had no experience with God, no way of knowing if God was actually there. So decided that I didn't know, and while I was in the process of trying to determine if God existed I would call myself an agnostic.
It's taken a lot longer than I thought it would to answer my questions about God's existence, so nearly ten years and many, many hours of introspection, research, reading, and discussion later, I'm still agnostic.
There's still more to do, but I have answered some major questions for myself. First, I'm fairly certain that if I ever convert to a faith it won't be any denomination of Christianity. There are too many things there that I don't think I can reconcile with myself (the Old Testament is a major sticking point, as is the damnation of good but non-religious people). This same problem also rules out Judaism and Islam for me. I'll also admit that I've been somewhat embittered toward God in general by the number of good people I've known who died either pointlessly, fruitlessly, senselessly, or at precisely the wrong time, and the lack of answers forthcoming from God on those occasions when I've tried to ask for them.
Next is Zen Buddhism, which in all honesty is far and away the most compelling religion I've learned about so far. But the most interesting stage of the learning process will be when I finish the studying part and begin experimenting with meditation and possibly even prayer again (though I'm reluctant to return to prayer after high school). The reason I don't believe in God or in the tenents of any religion I've studied is that I've never had a personal spiritual experience that said to me "this is what you've always believed in, you just didn't know it." However, when it comes to Zen I can honestly say I've never actively sought such an experience (i.e. through meditating, sesshin, and dokusan). So the obvious thing to do is try. We'll see what happens. Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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PSI, as lovely a narrative as the bit about santa is, i don't think that either that or my parents' divorce spawned my agnosticism. they simply lead to me actually questioning and started a crisis of faith at 9, which i'm most certain i would have had, even without those events, when i started taking confirmation classes at 14.
twinkster, maybe i should just sit back and wait for you to figure it all out. it's so tempting to take chris's approach, but i've not yet decided that i can't decide!
i have been thinking about the nature of karma a good deal lately....
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I was baptised and raised Catholic, my mother's religion (as was my little brother), but my father's Methodist. None of us are terribly religious, I'm sorry to say, but I've gone though confirmation as a Catholic just last year. My parents, however, weren't afraid to let me learn about different religions: When I had questions about a religion that I saw or read about, they helped me find them out.
I've grown up in a predominately Southern Baptist area as well, which can be a bit of trouble, especially because in my area, both religions think the other is going to Hades. The one thing that we LOVE to fight about is the bibles: which one is the 'correct' one. I get in those fights chiefly because they're so darn fun.
I have two friends who are Baptist and Lutherin respectively, and we used to just sit around and discuss religious codes. It was quite interesting, and rather fun.
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celia, I know what you're saying about Santa. I guess my point is just that I think it's really important to be as honest with your kids as you can. I don't want them to think I might lie.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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What made me choose the lack of faith that I did? Never having someone try to convince me that I should have faith in something.
I'm reading up on the history of religion right now and it's all very interesting and presented (in the book I have) without bias. However, I find myself wishing I did believe in something.
I know that I'll never be Catholic because it's too corrupt and hypocritical. I also know that I'll never have faith in a God who isn't open-minded (ie gays are evil). But I haven't yet found someone (other than agnogstics)who have strong enough faith in anyting to convince me that I should belive too.
Posts: 3420 | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Synesthesia I told my mother I like HP. She said it's satanic.
You think your brother is crazy for that view? Cutting Edge that website is all about saying that harry potter has to deal with the occult.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Feb 2004
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My mother belonged to the churches of Christ. My father was a vaguely conservative "seeker" who, so far as I know, has finally settled into some form of evangelicalism--but that was years after he left Mom.
It made perfect sense to me that God had been much more openly active in the past, and that when He was done talking He stopped. I never have heard anything from God--or expected to. I did speculate a lot theologically--perhaps as early as five, at which point I was more than capable of reading the Bible for myself--but mostly on things that the churches of Christ have never had any fixed answers on, so I felt no incongruity.
I did, however, get the idea that baptism was something you did "when you grew up". Therefore I planned to get around to it when I was 21. (In fact, the "age of accountability" depends on the person. It's possible that I might have been ready as early as six or seven, though I don't know for sure.)
It didn't work out that way, mostly because I had a serious medical condition and was confronted with my own mortality at the early age of 12; I was baptized just before my 13th birthday. By that time I had already begun getting into religious arguments at school. The first was more an accident than anything--I was asked, "Aren't you the guys who believe everyone else is going to hell?" and didn't have a nice, nonoffensive answer ready. But I discovered that I enjoyed the arguments and besides figured I might eventually manage to convert someone (hah!).
I can't recall remotely questioning my faith as a whole until just before high school ended--coincidentally, as a result of a discussion with a Mormon friend. (I believe the phrase in question was "Heavenly Father wouldn't just abandon us like that!") Nonetheless I concluded rather quickly that if God were going to say anything to me, He'd have done it a long time ago. I did begin to revise a few things about my beliefs that I thought I had probably picked up from evangelical belief rather than the Scriptures. Also, I had a brief (several hours long) attraction to paganism during college. The main temptation was simply that I find the mundanity of reality boring. I'd rather live in a world where God talks to people and regularly works miracles; I just don't. It didn't take long, however, to come to terms with the unlikelihood of anyOne else being out there and willing to talk either.
In the last few years I've gone through a crisis of faith due to a prolonged illness that nearly blinded me, and caused me to have to leave college and work at menial jobs for a living. I've also decided that part of the reason I find my faith reasonable is that it has elements I dislike; how likely is it that fundamental reality just happens to conform to my desires? As a result, I don't think I'll be leaving any time soon. In fact, considering some recent difficulties in the churches of Christ, I'm considering having myself frozen, if they ever get the process perfected, to assure that we don't vanish from the face of the Earth--at least I'll be around for the duration that way.
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I wonder why I feel that god sometimes does talk to people or at least show them some sort of sign. Yet in some people's eyes this would be considered borderline crazy. Which is somewhat sad.
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I was raised a Baptist to a certain point... Independant Baptist (Read:not the loud kind). Went to Christian schools, and did very well academically.
At about 7th grade, I went to a Christian school at an independant church (they wanted to be an Assembly of God, but they never got a preacher from them, so they just went on the way they were). My Optometrist was the pastor, and when My mom told him about my troubles with a particular Christian School (we were in a mostly unheated building and constantly having to sell stuff as 'fundraisers' even though the minister who ran it suddenly started driving a Porche, etc.), he pulled some strings and added a 7th grade class to the school. It was only going to be through 6th.
Anyway, about that time my parents divorced, which cause one lady at our Baptist church to start trying to get her booted out. She taught Sunday School and stuff, but I think her real crime in that old battle axe's eyes was that she was very pretty. Mom left to keep the peace, even though the minister asked her to stay.
My cousins went to the church where my school was, plus a lot of my school friends, so I started going there. My mother and Stepfather followed eventually. It was cool to get to sing and clap and even dance in church. I was in a group that learned some jewish dances and performed for the church. Anybody who had an instrument to play could be in the orchestra. They had drums and trumpets and cool stuff. Then there's the thing called Baptism in the Holy Spirit, which I no longer feel equiped to discuss.
I was very involved. I was asked to prepare communion. My papa became a deacon, and my mother sang. I started a prayer club at my public high school ( the school eventually closed. They just couldn't keep it open).
Then I went to a smallish Presbyterian college with very high academic standards, and very rigid religious ones. I was in the very small minority of 'holy rollers' there. Which was okay by me, because that school managed to show me, in explicit detail, everything that can go wrong with organized religion. It was frustrating.
Then along came Ron. *sigh* Presbyterian by default, but really more interested in Eastern Philosphies. And just really, really ... everything I ever wanted in a guy. VERY smart, very good looking, funny and easily the most fascinating person I had ever met.
Now, I had broken off relationships because of religious differences before, but I think Ron was very careful to never really make an issue of it. He came to church with me and I went to church with him.
Eventually, he became more important to me than forcing myself to participate in church activities that had lost their meaning for me anyway. He pursued me. He was better for me than fountains of holy water. He managed to help me see and deal with some of the more twisted aspects of my neuroses, without even meaning to, I think.
Now, it's not that I don't believe in God-- I don't think I'll ever really be rid of that belief-- but church and the practice of religion has become irrelevant to me. I think I may even be becoming allergic to churches. The last time I went to one I... well, I wouldn't call it a full-blown panic attack, but it was a definite "Get me the hell out of here" attack. And that was only for a Christmas pageant. Though, it WAS at one of those MegaChurches, which I find a little scary on general principle.
The reader's digest version?
What made you choose the faith, or lack thereof, that you did? Really, really great sex. Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I was born and raised a JW. I looked into a couple religions, most prominently LDS (I didn't "investigate" - just research and discussion whenever I met someone at the door), but disagreed with too many of their views. In 2000, I was baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses at thirteen after reading a lot of secular books.
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I was born Jewish, so I am. Only maybe I'm not.
It depends on who you ask. Some would say I'm an atheist. Some would say I'm a full-fledged Jew. Whatever they say, they have no freakin clue, because they aren't inside my head. I'm inside my head and I don't know either. I'm Shlomo. Categorize me however you want. And be fully aware that you're dead wrong.
In closing, my parents send me to Jewish schools, and I feel like I'm on a completely different planet than everyone else during judaic studies classes. So I don't know what made me choose my religion, because I'm not sure what my beliefs are or if they can be characterized as religion. But I'm sure my beliefs are not what my rabbis would like.
Hmmm...what do I believe? I don't know. But right now I'm leaning in the direction that it doesn't matter whether God exists or not, because my God is completely aloof from the physical world. It follows, perhaps, for me at least, that God has no practical purpose in the physical world. As for organized religion...ummm...that has a lot of inherent customs and stuff so it has a practical purpose in the physical world. Not sure what on earth that has to do with God, though. Religion means that not only is there a God (which I'm not sure of), but that this God chose one group of people to be inherently superior. And since God hasn't spoken to me recently, it's pretty much everyone's word against everyone else's.
Now, just for kicks, please notice that 75% of my post came after "in closing". Also, I changed my mind. I don't know who would call me a full- fledged Jew. But as I said...categories. I don't answer to "full-fledged Jew" or "atheist". I only answer to Shlomo, Trogdor, Your Head A Splode(if Narra says it), and Music(if the director or manageing tech guys at my school plays say it in the next two months).
Posts: 755 | Registered: May 2001
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I was born and raised in the south suburbs of Chicago...and I was the only Mormon in my high school until my sister came in my senior year. I wasn't around a closely knit community of people that shared my faith. I went to church on Sundays and tried really hard to yawn my way through early morning seminary like all the rest of us, but when questions were asked me about my faith when I was at school, I was the only one around to answer them. And I'm ashamed to say that I wasn't versed enough in the doctrine to answer them all as well as I should have, but I did the best I could to keep down the baby-eating rumors etc. My family was pretty active, my two oldest brothers served full time missions, and we did the best we could. I still feel like my choice of faith was all mine and mine alone, and I'm glad for that.
There wasn't a particular moment that I remember as being the turning point. I do remember the first time I read the Book of Mormon all the way through. I was 17 or 18 I think. I was never good at praying regularly and didn't get REALLY consistent until I went away to college. I think I needed to be on my own to make the discoveries that I needed to make. The great thing about my faith is that I'm still making discoveries. It's never complete.
The idea of God creating Man and Woman and putting us here on the earth so that we could go through what we needed to go through to become more like God ourselves makes a lot of sense to me. We can only progress through trials and joys and sorrows and mistakes and forgiveness. I felt like the scriptures, my church leaders, my parents and the feelings I could receive through my prayers were the help that I needed to progress in the right direction. As I get older, there seem to me more and more evidences in my life that I'm being helped and supported along my way.
I know that God exists and I even know that He loves me. I had to actually admit to myself just HOW involved He is in my everyday life before I could start to get to know what He's really like. That's when my prayers finally started to get meaningful. I'm learning new things all the time and it's truly a great comfort to know that He doesn't expect me to know everything all at once. But I feel like God wants us to succeed in this life and for this reason I believe in ancient and modern prophets that help teach us about the big picture and what is right in His eyes.
And after a whole lot of study, a 19 month LDS mission to Brazil, and some personal experiences, I can say that I believe in the saving role of Jesus Christ and the necessity of His atonement. And I try to follow His example of living in my everyday life (which for me includes active membership in the LDS church.)
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