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I just finished Monstrous Regiment . What do you think of the new direction he seems to be taking with the last couple books?
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I have read every Discworld book up to Monstrous Regiment, but haven't had a chance to get that one yet. I did read the first dozen pages or so in the bookstore.
I loved Night Watch. Vimes is my favorite Pratchett character, and my favorite books are always the ones involving the Watch.
What is this "new direction" you refer to? (If it doesn't involve spoilers too much.)
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I loved Night Watch, too, and I think that's where Pratchett got significantly darker. I think he's been getting slowly more serious for the past, oh, five years, maybe more.
He was always a good writer, that is, he IS a good writer (this isn't an obituary) but, wow, to compare the earliest Rincewind books to the lastest books...
I agree. I love Sam Vimes and Angua and Carrot.
But I'm very fond of Susan Death as well. Posts: 575 | Registered: Jan 2004
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I think the main difference that I noticed first was how much more "stand-alone" Monstrous Regiment seemed.
He hasn't written a book featuring anything but a repeat main character for awhile. Well, ok, except for The Truth . But before then, it was just Night Watch/ Ramtop Witches/ Death/ Rincewind in pretty regular cycles, you know?
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I’ve read every book he’s ever written, including Monstrous Regiment and you can really see how his writing has matured over time.
I love his new direction too. His books always dealt with big issues in a humorous way, but there seems to be more of a poignancy to his writing and characterisation these days. The subjects which he’s been tackling are often hard to face in a humorous way, but I don’t think I’ve seen war and all it’s hardships and stupidities treated as well since MASH. The humour is still there, almost as much as ever, but there seems to be more going on under the surface. Especially in ‘Night Watch’ which (IMO) is his best book to date.
I really hope he writes another ‘witches’ book though. I can’t believe that we’ve seen the last of Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Ogg.
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I think it's a process that has been at work for years now. At first, the books were primarily fantasy spoofs, although very well done. They were just hilarious. They weren't very deep, though.
Slowly, as the Discworld and its nations/states and people became more familiar and fleshed out, it took on a note of reality and depth. Things don't just happen because they're funny or ridiculous. They're still funny, but they also really matter.
At the same time, the satire has become more pointed and biting in tone. By itself, this could have become tiresome and preachy. However, because the world is so well-realized, it doesn't turn into simply a political statement about the problems the author sees in our own world.
Early on, characters other than those that were the very most central to the plot were dying all the time. They were red-shirts (to use a Star Trek metaphor). Now, think how long it has been since characters like the Patrician, the Arch-chancellor, the local beggars, and the heads of the guilds have been around. They're not just there as foils for Rincwind or Vimes. They are important parts of the fabric of that world. If something does happen to them at some point, it will really matter.
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Maybe I'm silly, but I always loved Terry Pratchett, but it is the fleshing out of Discworld that made me love his stuff. Really good books leave me wistful after reading them and I want to live in that fictional universe for a little while.
It's very heartening when created worlds are as valuable to the writer as to the reader. Like you said, no red shirts.
I love The Patrician. I even lobbied to used the name Havelock for a baby. (Is that cruel? Or just unusual?)
What made the book look even better was I read the newest Xanth novel right afterwards. Peirs Anthony is already the poster child for silly mediocrity, but in comparison to Pratchett's books...I had to reread Night Watch jsut to decompress from Regiment .
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I love Terry Pratchett. I've read nearly all of the Discworld books to Vána, and the only one I didn't really like that much was the one about Australia (though I do have to say I enjoy reading about Rincewind the least). I plan on purchasing each of his new books as they make paperback, and purchasing the older ones as quickly as I can.
I do appreciate the darker tone that he's been taking with his Vimes books - he struck a very nice balance in Night Watch between suspenseful and funny that I haven't seen very often. But then, my favorite Discworld book is The Thief of Time, and I think that he's at his best when he's balancing ridiculousness and adventure/seriousness, as the added seriousness makes the laughter and ridiculousness that much more important.
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See, folks like, say, Douglas Adams, their comedy is often no more'n jokes strung together. Discworld has depth, and Death too, and I love it.
BTW: I got my friend to read Wyrd Sisters. She got half through, then handed it back, saying it was boring.
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Yeah, I was talking to Christy about this tonight -- we're both huge fans -- and I was suddenly hard-pressed to name a favorite without naming them ALL.
In my opinion, the weaker books include The Color of Magic, Jingo, Eric, and The Last Continent. The strongest, I think, are....Okay, this is funny. I started to make a list and immediately went back and added and added to it until it was seven books long. *grin* But the first two on the list were Mort and Small Gods, which are both excellent.
You know, I posted reviews and synopses of all of his books a while back, somewhere on this forum.
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Oh, yes, Small Gods . That's always the first Discworld I lend to anyone just stating on the series. "And, lo, there was a leaf..." so good!
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I like most of his books, but I think that The Amazing Maurice is my most recent favorite. It seems to have the depth that was absent in many of his earlier novels. Posts: 218 | Registered: Nov 2001
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(Tries to pick a favorite, begins shivering violently, runs upstairs and fondles signed copies over and over...)
Actually my favorite Pratchett book is the one he wrote with Neil Gaiman, Good Omens. But the rest all run a close second, followed by the rest of recorded literature. Pratchett, along with Gaiman (and Card, for that matter) recieve the highest accolade I can offer: I buy their books in hardback, the first week they're out.
[ February 19, 2004, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: Chris Bridges ]
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I'm a huge Pterry fan and I'll agree with most everybody else in saying it's really hard to pick a favorite. I tend to prefer the watchmen series over the others (not including the stand-alones which are almost all gems), although I thought Maskerade and The Last Continent were bloody brilliant.
I haven't read The Monstrous Regiment yet, last one was Night Watch, which I absolutely loved. Vimes is a favorite, but the Patrician is tops in my book and Watch showed him off to great effect.
I find that a lot of the earlier books are almost straight parodies, like Wyrd Sisters to MacBeth, but that he's really tossing around a lot more in the later ones.
Oh, and I liked Lord and Ladies a lot better when it was called Carpe Jungulam.
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Just to clear something up: Lords and Ladies was written BEFORE Carpe Jugulum, and is in fact a superior book to its successor. It's a shame he hasn't really found anything interesting to do with Agnes -- although I quite liked Granny's interaction with religion in Carpe.Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Yeah, I know about the temporal ordering. I disagree with your quality ordering. I liked Carpe a lot more. I thought Lords was lot of a build up without enough pay off. Also, I like Anges a lot better than Magrat. Ehh...different strokes. You've got to admit they're the same story though.
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Yeah, except Lords was good, whereas Carpe was adequate. Then again, Magrat's one of my favorite characters -- Christy's fond of pointing out that I kind of married her -- so YMMV. *grin*
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Until I read Night Watch, my favorite was Men at Arms. As I said, I love all of the ones about the Watch.
Of the early books, the only one on my favorites list is Sourcery. Rincewind really shines in that one.
What's the recent one that was all illustrated? The Last Hero, or something like that? Without the pictures, it wouldn't have been that great, since it lacked some depth. But the combination of story and pictures made it a winner.
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Oh, yes. That was my Christmas present two years ago. I was on a car trip, and had morning sickness, but still read it. Now that's devotion.
Where can Pratchett go from here? Marrying off Carrot and Angua? Or Susan Death?
Huh. I started writing that paragraph witht he assumption that the Discworld characters had all matured to the point of not being easy story material, but as I was writing it, I thought of lots of things that still need to happen.
I really don't know where else Granny and Nanny can go, though.
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Granny and Nanny (or, as I prefer, Esme and Gytha) don't need to "go" anywhere. They have long been content to stay where they are. All their "adventures" have come about because someone from "outside" invades their quiet, rustic world and must be dealt with. There can always be another invasion.
Angua is one character that I think has remained entirely too static througout, and something should be done with her.
I have never found Susan to be very interesting. The only book I ever got stuck in, couldn't finish, and had to come back to later, was Soul Music.
I think more could be done with characters like Ponder Stibbons, Agnes Nitt, and that little old monk from Thief of Time and Night Watch whose name I am drawing a blank on.
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Granny and Nanny (or Weatherwax and Ogg, as I think of them) have too gone places. They've been to Genua and to Ankh-Morpork. ( Wyrd Sisters and Maskerade , respectively.) (I'm pretty sure on the first one.)
I agree with you about Angua, though. I hope to read something more about her and Carrot soon. Pratchett's been favoring the Night Watch sub-series lately, I think, so here's hoping.
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I was thinking about why I liked Agnes better than Magrat and the little men threw up something interesting. They represent the immature approaches to magic. Magrat's a mother-earth, vegetarian-style fluffy bunny Wiccan, while Agnes is the plain, boring teenager who goes Goth because she wants to interesting. Then, in these two books, Magrat's with the fairies, which fit the hippy thing, while Agnes is wit the vapires, with some of the goths try to be. I don't know, I thought that was interesting.
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Sachiko:"Granny and Nanny (or Weatherwax and Ogg, as I think of them) have too gone places"
I didn't say that they haven't gone anywhere. I said that they don't need to go anywhere. Problems come to them, even though sometimes the solutions to those problems call for them to travel a bit.
They have no unresolved life goals that drive them to adventure or exploration.
By the way, although she is not my favorite character (Vimes is), does anyone doubt that Esme Weatherwax is the most powerful being on the Disc?
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Death has the power to trump the Librarian, probably, but it's a question of whether he has either the brains or the will.
As for Granny, I know Death doesn't have either the brains or the will to trump her, and I'm not even sure about the power.
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Just out of curiosity, because due to a very helpful Jatraquera, I am now starting up reading Discworld (she gave me Mort to read first), but The Color of Magic is the first book, right? I wasn't entirely sure.
Also, I haven't read this thread through for fear of it spoiling things for me.
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Color of Magic is the first book, but it isn't at all representative of the Discworld books. You should read it before The Light Fantastic, because the latter is a true sequel. But you certainly don't need it in order to get into the rest of the books. In fact, other than the one exception I have noted, there is no need to read them in any order at all. They are roughly chronological, and tend to have recurring characters (and a few running gags). But they are also each independent.
If you really want to start with an early book, start with Sourcery. The flow is similar enough to the more recent books, but not so much of the back story has been developed that you feel like you're missing out on anything. (In fact, the only thing I can think of is wondering where the Luggage came from, but that's very minor).
The Luggage! How could I have forgotten? It is certainly among the contenders for the most powerful being (entity?) on the Disc.
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If you want to start with an early, early book, read Strata, the first Pratchett book I ever read, back before he got funny.
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There are no deities on the Disc that are more powerful than Granny. As we have seen, even the ones that do have some degree of power are pretty incompetent and not too bright.
Granny is more powerful than the Luggage, but not by much. And the Librarian is a stumper, because he usually doesn't have any reason to show his power. He isn't competitive at all, and doesn't care if he is overlooked, so we may never know.
As for Coin, the Sourceror, he was certainly the most powerful in terms of raw Power, but he would have been defeated easily by Granny. He knew nothing of headology. Now, as you pointed out, he isn't on the Disc anymore, so it's moot.
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And somebody mentioned earlier that they liked Good Omens the best. I couldn't disagree more. I didn't care for that one much. It had its moments, but I will probably never reread it.
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I did like Good Omens , as compared to ther books, but not as compared to Discworld.
Neil Gaiman is wonderful and all that, don't get me wrong. I think he's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.
Discworld is much more optimistic than Gaiman's darker style and I like that about Discworld.
I think it's a general principle that people will keep coming back to something that makes them feel good. And in Discworld, good and order do triumph, albeit slightly different good and orders than usual.
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No, I'm not Lao-tze. I'm taller. But I am pretty good at sweeping. Never owned a bonsai mountain, though.
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That's actually one of the big reasons I like Good Omens, it's general optimism over the gloom and doom of Armegeddon.
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I think I'm just opposed to books with two writers. They seem to be niether fish nor fowl nor good red herring.
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For the most part, I can agree with you. Collaboration rarely produces good results.
But I love the exceptions. Niven/Pournelle, Gaiman/Pratchett, Turtledove/Tarr. And some authors seem to read better when they have someone else tempering their excesses. I tend to prefer books that authors such as Piers Anthony, Mercedes Lackey, and Eric Flint wrote with other people to their individual work, for example.
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Boy, Niven and Pournelle have got to be the best example of a successful collaboration. The whole in that case is definitely greater than the sum of its parts.
Niven's solo stuff is good, but when he writes with Pournelle, they're great.
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