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Author Topic: I HATE ALL PARENTS!!!!!!!!
advice for robots
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I don't know if there's much sense arguing over what parents should or should not think about the relationships of their teenage children. Parents are darned protective, and sometimes there's no rational reason to give. You can rant all you want about how parents should think, but you're not going to get any reasonable argument past the big wall that is protective instinct. [Smile]

For example, have you ever come across a bear cub in the woods? I was running with a few of my cross-country buddies once, and we came up a hill, and voila, there was a cute little black bear cub. The way we skidded to a stop, wheeled around, and tore out of there was almost cartoonlike. Yeah, we didn't mean the cub any harm, but try explaining that to the mother when she gets a whiff of you.

CM, all I can say is that you're battling against all of nature if you have a punk look. Most parents don't trust their daughters to that look. It's a look that means disrespect and danger--I mean, it's calculated to have that effect, so it's no surprise that it does. You can be the nicest guy inside, but if you look menacing...well, the first thing the parents ask themselves is why you are cultivating that image if you're such a nice guy.

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BannaOj
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addendum:

I get the distinct impression from my own upbringing that a generation or so ago, cross gender friendships did not exist. Even though my parents have been close friends with several other couples their age for years, to this day, my mother would not consider the male of the couple her friend, only the female, which I think is patently rediculous.

I don't know how you get paranoid parents to admit that do exist and that they are probably quite healthy, when it is their own lack of these friendships leading to their warped perspective.

it is a frustrating conundrum

AJ

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Olivet
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I went to Christian school with a bunch of girls who were 'forbidden' to date until they were 16. I was not. My mother's rule was that she had to meet the boy and his family first, she had to know where we were and when we'd be back.

I'm sure we'd have had a talk if she didn't approve of the boy, but that never came up. The 11 year old 'date' was to a movie with my sister and her boyfriend. I didn't like it (boys still had cooties, I only went to test my boundaries, I think), and didn't date again until I was nearly 18.

My friends, who were forbidden to date, always snuck out, made plans with their 'boyfirends' to meet at the movies, and sometimes used ME as a cover ("Mom, Dad, [Olivet]'s going" was usually enough, because I was the good kid that everyone wanted their kids to be like). For the record, that only happened once and I didn't realize until later that I was only being asked to go with them as a cover. They invited a boy for me, as if that made it okay. [Roll Eyes] I told them I didn't want to be a part of them decieving their parents.

Truth is, my mother and I were very close. She had explained to me, in no uncertain terms, what had happened in her youth and that she was determined not to make the mistakes her parents had made with her. We talked a lot about how important relationships were, and that they should not be entered into lightly. The purpose of dating was to find someone to marry, and physical intimacies were a sacred thing between married people. We talked about real, important things.

She alweays knew what was going on my life, and we never lied to each other. I went to her when I had problems and I trusted her advice. In turn, she trusted my judgment. It was her faith and love that kept me on the straight and narrow, not blind adherence to 'rules'. Some kids may need dictatorship, but I did not, and my mother knew that. The result was that I was always the kid that other parents said, "why can't you be more like..." about.

She sacrificed a lot for me, she loved me and she took great pains to be involved in my life. Anyone who thinks that is a bad parent is an idiot.

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BannaOj
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Olivet I wish I had had a mother like yours. The problem is many are not.

While mine was not a bad mother, I could never be close to her because from the beginning I realized that she would never accept any ideas that I had that weren't exactly in line with her own. She *thought* we were close, because I would verbally agree with her, since it wasn't worth whatever argument would happen if I disagreed.

I read a book where the meaning of

"Die Gedanken Sind Frei"

was discussed, in a family that actually left Germany before WWII blew up.

This became my motto to survive. Knowing that "My Thoughts Are Free" is what kept me sane from about 8 years of age on. She couldn't control my thoughts and ideas, no matter how hard she tried.

quote:
English translation (as sung by Pete Seeger) follows:

Die Gedanken Sind Frei. My thoughts freely flower.
Die Gedanken Sind Frei. My thoughts give me power.
No scholar can map them, no hunter can trap them.
No man can deny Die Gedanken Sind Frei.
No man can deny Die Gedanken Sind Frei.

I think as I please, and this gives me pleasure.
My conscience decrees: This light I must treasure.
My thoughts will not cater to Duke or dictator.
No man can deny Die Gedanken Sind Frei.
No man can deny Die Gedanken Sind Frei.

Well, should tyrants take me and throw me in prison,
My thoughts will burst free like blossoms in season.
Foundations will crumble and structures will tumble
And free men will cry Die Gedanken Sind Frei.
And free men will cry Die Gedanken Sind Frei.

From http://www.interversity.org/lists/arn-l/archives/feb2001/msg00270.html
AJ

[ March 29, 2004, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]

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katharina
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*nods* Olivet, my mom did the same thing. We talked very much about dating and emotional states and human relations. I am so grateful for that. I did have the no dates till I was 16 rule, but there was no one I wanted to date around that was planning on asking me so it wasn't a problem.
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mr_porteiro_head
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I agree with what AFR said in his last paragraph. You can talk all you want about how people should not judge by appearances, but the fact is that you have *chosen* to appear threatening. That's judging based on an action.

CalvinMaker -- I hope that I haven't offended you with these posts. It's hard for me to gague when I am and when I am not. Based on lack of feedback, I'll have to assume that you are OK with recieving advice that you solicited.

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TomDavidson
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Does anyone actually feel threatened by the punk look nowadays? Most of the punks I know are also among the nicer and more cuddly people.
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mr_porteiro_head
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Yes. And with parents: Double Yes.
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BannaOj
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Tom I think as new parents you need to start sporting a mohawk and an earring or two to go along with Christy's purple hair...

AJ

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Olivet
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CM doesn't really look threatening to ME, though.

Of course, I have sons, not daughters.

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katharina
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I would have had a crush on Noah instantly in high school. He looks slightly threatening and is in reality a complete sweetheart.

In which case, yes, my mother would have been horrified.

[ March 29, 2004, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]

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BannaOj
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I guess the real question is,

How open-minded should parents be to their children's thoughts and ideas?

Especially when the children aren't children any more but young adults? If you don't give freedom with responsibility how are your children ever going to learn self control or correct actions and decision making. Mommy and Daddy aren't always going to be there as much as they think they'd like to be. Tying your children to your aprons strings isn't healthy for the children or parents and often brings out the worst of co-dependency.

I'm sure there is a middle course of action that is resonable, but coming from the extreme overprotection end myself, it sounds to me like m_p_h is advocating that same extreme.

AJ

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Alexa
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Until a minor is financially independent, a parent has EVERY right to interfere with a child’s dating life. It is the parent’s responsibility to look after the child. If you don't like it-tough.

Being involved is a much more significant sign of love then being detached. Parents, as a rule, will love their children more then any teenager.

If they don't like you, be open. If they insist you not see their daughter, then you should respect their decision. Of course, once the child is financially independent, the rules change.

If you hate parents, then you justify their position (not that they need your justification). If there is a pattern of parents being concerned about you, be open to input.

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advice for robots
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I have not yet had the pleasure of watching a teenage daughter go out on a date (my oldest just turned 3) but I have seen all my sisters have bad and sometimes dangerous experiences with boys that my parents did not screen. My parents were not protective enough, IMO. Letting them find things out for themselves is all well and good, but protecting them against some dangers (even if only perceived) is a parent's solemn responsibility. While I do not intend to be overprotective of my daughter when she starts dating, I do intend to err on the side of caution. Having been a teenage boy myself, I know in general how they think. Yes, her dates will come inside and meet me first---not so I can ask them if they plan to become doctors or lawyers some day, but just to get a good look at their eyes while making pleasant chit-chat, and to get a detailed itinerary of where he plans to take her. I want my daughter to have a good time, get to know lots of people, and make friends, but I will do my best to keep her from some situations with boys that are much more easily prevented than resolved. And this is expressly so she can remain free to follow her dreams and make the choices that will help her grow and blossom as she enters adulthood.
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blacwolve
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I go and do things with my guy friends, just the two of us. I also have a steady boyfriend who couldn't care less and does the same things with his girlfriend. We're not going on dates with our friends, which just hanging out and having fun, same as we would do with members of the same sex.
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blacwolve
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My dad also pretends he hates my boyfriend, because he thinks I'll break p with him if I know he likes him. He's not a very good actor though. [Evil]
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BannaOj
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Alexa,

I'm sorry. I have a history here that I know is getting in the way. I WAS financially able to take care of myself.

The total amount my parents contributed to my five years of college education was less than 5K, or about $1000 per year. I could have earned that much with a job at McDonald's.

At 16 I was holding down an adult job tutoring. Fellow students actually lived off the same tutoring job, but my hours were restricted because my parents refused to allow me more. I was capable of being fully self-sufficient including car insurance if necessary. I did the math, numerous times.

I never dated ANYONE until age 20. The most I ever went behind my parents back was to tell them that Sarah brought me home from a study session rather than Matt. Matt lived closer and it was far more convienient for him to do so than Sarah for whom it would have been a 40 minute out of the way drive.

Yet I was constantly assaulted with all sorts of baseless accusations, about who or what I was doing or dating. They refused to believe me if I said a guy friend and I weren't dating. They would say, yes you are, you just don't know you are. Preoposterous! Basically questioning my integrity thought I tried to deal with them with the utmost integrity until about 3 years into college when I finally gave up because I reallized I was dealing with irrational and unreasonable people. Even then I can count the actual number of lies I told and it stops at three. I don't like lying. But the power of denial is hard to overcome and eventually I just gave up and let them believe what they wanted to.

AJ

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BannaOj
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grrr, and I just got an e-mail from my best friend whose maid of honor I was going to be.

Her parents are saying they don't want to come to the wedding because she's marrying an atheist. The woman is 27 years old, finishing a PhD and they think they can still manipulate and control who she marries!

AJ

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katharina
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[Frown] That's absolutely unconscionable.
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TomDavidson
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I think she should just come out and tell them the truth: that he's not really an atheist; he's really a Satanist, and she was just looking to spare their feelings.
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Alexa
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BannaOJ,

I am sorry. That post was directed to the originator of this post, CalvinMaker.

He said it was the second parent who broke up his friendship and that he hated "All Parents."

I found his brief history potentially telling when coupled with his emotional response to "all parents" and his willingness see the girl behind the backs of the parents.

I should of been more clear who my response was intended for. I agree that there was no gross foul play in YOUR attitude or behavior.

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BannaOj
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sorry alexa like I said, this is a sore point.

Calvin Maker despite his appearance (which I haven't actually seen myself, though I could probably find him on foobonic) appears to actually be a generally mature and responsible guy, judging from his responses to extremely difficult situations.

I don't know the particulars of the girls situation. But I feel that the parents should have made an effort to get to know Calvin before dismissing him wholesale. They owe their daughter that much. If they make judgement calls that are completely wrong about Calvin, how is she supposed to trust them about making judgement calls about the rest of her life, just because they are her parents. Judgement calls aren't issues when rasing a toddler, but they are extremely important with raising a mature teenager able to make healthy interactions with other people.

AJ

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CalvinMaker
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quote:
He said it was the second parent who broke up his friendship and that he hated "All Parents."

I found his brief history potentially telling when coupled with his emotional response to "all parents" and his willingness see the girl behind the backs of the parents.

I obviously don't hate "all parents". I'm just very upset at the unfair loss of one of my best friends, and considering this is the second time it's happened, I'm just growing frustrated with some parents' control over their children.
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CalvinMaker
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Oh, and also, considering I'll be going away to college in August anyway, I kind of feel like her parents could have at least given us until I went away to college.
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Ela
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Noah, was any reason ever given, from either of the girls' parents, as to why the parents don't want you seeing the girls anymore? Are they basing it solely on your appearance? I am just curious about this. As Tom points out, the punk look is not all that uncommon among kids your age.

Personally, I found you personable and respectful, and not at all threatening. [Smile]

And unlike Olivet, I do have a daughter. [Wink]

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Suneun
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I disagree that parents have complete rule over their children while their children are financially attached. Children aren't pets or slaves, no matter what culture you might have grown up in.

If only one person in a couple works, does that mean that the other is dependent on the first for all rules? Can a wife only associate with certain people because her husband happens to bring home the money? Or a man if his wife does?

Financial obligation does not make the argument. Worry about respect, knowledge, wisdom all you want, but bringing money in is a tawdry element.

My parents told me when I was a kid that I was not allowed to date until Medical School. And I'm not allowed to be friends with black people. Or gay people.

Guess what. I refuse to obey their narrow-minded plans. And no other child should have to compromise their open-hearted beliefs like that.

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beverly
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Some of the descriptions of parents rules here (Banna's and Suneun's) do sound pretty unreasonable. But I think there is some wisdom in encouraging your child to wait until they are older to date.

[ March 29, 2004, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: beverly ]

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Olivet
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Mom always screened boys before we could go out with them-- you know, talked to them and met their parents-- until we were out of the house.

Dad just made sure he was sharpening his knife collection right around the time the boys came to pick us up. [Big Grin]

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Suneun
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beverly: I don't believe there's any inherent value in having someone date at 16 versus 18, or 18 versus 21. Each person must be evaluated on their own, and ultimately, each person must decide _for themselves_.
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Amka
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The problem is, I think that parents, with the extra experience they have, should guide their children.

I am very committed to having my children become as independent as they can as soon as is healthy for them. But there are simply some things they aren't ready to decide for themselves at certain ages and I think parents can be the better judge of that than their children, provided they aren't control freaks.

My girls won't be allowed to date until they are sixteen. This puts them past the worst part of puberty so that they will be making more mature decisions with a better understanding of their body (having gone through puberty rather than just hearing about it from me, school, and friends) and more experience in general. I lived under these same rules and I don't feel like my freedoms were strangled in any way. Once I could date, curfews were based on what the activity was and when we said we would be home. I once had a curfew of 2 am because my BF of the time had prom in his town which was an hour away and a planned activity afterwards. We went to my prom as well, but that curfew was 1 am. So, my parents trusted me and I felt that, but I had rules. Even though I got angry at my parents sometimes, I knew they loved me and only wanted what was best for me. Intellectually I knew that they had more experience than I did, but I couldn't possibly think what it was until I grew up and had those experiences too.

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Bob the Lawyer
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If your sole reason for making them wait until 16 you should consider that boys are just starting to through their super hormonal period. You're probably better to push it up to "no dating until you leave the house or are 21, whichever comes first." That way you know that the guys are just as influenced by hormones as she may have been when she was 14, or whatever.
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Ela
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From what Noah is saying, this doesn't sound like a question of dating, anyway, but just a girl that he is friends with. Correct me if I'm wrong...
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beverly
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You are correct, Ela, this is just a textbook example of a derailed thread. [Big Grin]
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CalvinMaker
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quote:
Noah, was any reason ever given, from either of the girls' parents, as to why the parents don't want you seeing the girls anymore?
That's just the thing. Jacqueline said she asked her parents if it was because of my punk look and they said no.

Apparently it's because i'm now enemies with a friend of jacqueline's who used to be a good friend of mine. I barely even see this girl anymore, but for some reason Jax's parents think that I "disrespected Kate", and therefore will do the same to Jacqueline. When in fact, all that happened was Kate and I got in a big argument and blew up at each other, saying we weren't going to talk to each other anymore.

The only problem is, Jacqueline says kate's been talking smack about me, some of it around her parents.

I hate it when people can't just leave other people's lives alone. When I stop talking to someone, I try and stay out of their lives. It's as if Kate's a little girl and can't keep her hands to herself.

And what's REALLY annoying, is that jacqueline isn't even nearly as good friends with kate as she is with me. She often vents to me about how annoying kate is and how her and I get along much better than her and kate.

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aka
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That does sound really unfair, Noah. I wonder if she discussed with them your side of the story of the falling out with Kate, would they listen? It seems pretty unfair that they judged after only hearing Kate's side and not yours.

Did you call Kate profane names in her hearing, by any chance? If you did and she mentioned it to Jaqueline's parents, that could be what they are upset about. That is a case where the particular idiom one chooses can have a real life effect, and be more than a matter of taste.

[ March 29, 2004, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: aka ]

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mr_porteiro_head
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That sounds more like an excuse than a reason.
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TomDavidson
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Actually, depending on what CM actually said about Kate, I would consider that a legitimate reason.
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Alexa
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Suneun,

You state
quote:
Children aren't pets or slaves, no matter what culture you might have grown up in.
However, I did not say they are pets or slaves. I did say
quote:
Until a minor is financially independent, a parent has EVERY right to interfere with a child’s dating life.

and

quote:
Being involved is a much more significant sign of love then being detached.
However, perhaps I erred on talking about financially independence. I should of stated that until a child is emancipated, parents have every right be involved. *Note* I never said "complete rule."

If a child vandalizes property, the parents are responsible to pay, because in the eyes of the law, minors have no property. Even if a 17 year old works hard and buys a car, unless emancipated, the parents can sell the car and keep the money.

Why do I say this? Because parents are legally responsible for kids until they are 18 and are considered old enough to financially be independent. Of course if a child proves they can be independent before 18, they can get emancipated.

There are competent and incompetent parents. There are effective and ineffective parents. I am not debating those issues. I am saying, if the parent is involved (which is a surer sign of love then setting children loose), the parents are right and JUSTIFIED to influence who a child sees. If CM is seeing the girl behind the parents back, well, he is proving his character.

Obviously if the parents are abusive in any manner, rules change and we seek to help the children, but if they are good parents, we should respect them.

Having that respect in our countenance will open more doors then going behind the backs of people.

Last thought, no parent has absolute control, children are independent thinkers, and part of maturity is testing boundaries, disobeying, and finding our individual identities. Most parents know this, act in love, and have a right to still guide, direct, give feedback, and even refuse threats they think exist for their children.

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Farmgirl
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Well, as a parent of teenagers -- my daughter is a sophomore in high school -- obviously we have had this "talk" in our house: "what is the appropriate age to date."

After much intellectual discussion, all my kids agree that "dating" (and by this I mean one-on-one time together, not group dates or simple outings with friends) is designed for when you are ready to find a spouse -- someone you want to spend the rest of your life with.

My daughter plans to be a veterinarian -- she has extremely strong feelings about this, has had since she was young, and has never wavered from her goal. So that means after high school, she has at least six years (if not more) of college to go through.

So she agrees that there is no sense in her dating at this time. She goes out with groups (like youth groups from our church, etc.) where there might be several guys & girls, and usually some adults along as well. She has many many friendships. But I'm trying to steer her away from the "going steady" thing I see with so many teens, getting younger and younger now.

I know of kids who "went steady" in fifth and sixth grades. And lost their virginity then, too. I'm not saying one always follows the other, but when you emotionally commit yourself to just one person daily, it is a lot easier for temptation to be there.

If my daughter had said all she ever wants to be in life is a wife and mother, then I wouldn't have any problem with her dating at 17-18 or whatever. But her own goals show that she should concentrate on them first, then look for someone to share that life with.

And not to be sexist, but it is the same with my sons. As long as they are living at home, depending on me for any portion (financially) of their existance, then they are not yet ready to "date" exclusively and be put in a situation that leads to marriage. Because they aren't ready for that responsiblity yet.

Farmgirl

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mr_porteiro_head
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This is one place where my parents dropped the ball. We had a rule "no dating util 16", which I mostly followed. But years beforehand, I "went steady" or "went out" exclusively with girls. I was way to young to be doing that, and it caused me emotional problems that persisted well into adulthood. Since the rule was "no dating", I figured that was a bigger deal than going steady. But now I disagree.

[ March 30, 2004, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]

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BannaOj
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Dating? 16? [ROFL] yeah right! not in my family. Like I said, I didn't date til I was 20 and even then defining it as "dating" is stretching it. I don't believe my brother at nearly 21 has ever been on a date. Though my 19 year old brother may have. But if he has, he's not telling my parents or anyone else, since I know he has a healthy sense of self preservation.

The aformentioned good friend who is getting married who has similarly difficult parents who is getting married didn't date til 24 or 25.

The thing is for a long time we both believed our parents when they said that no one was suitable for us. Then we realized that NO ONE would ever be good enough so what was the point of trying to keep them happy. (Admittedly it took my friend a little longer to reach the realization than it took me, but I think both paths were equally valid.)

AJ

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Farmgirl
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quote:
The aformentioned good friend who is getting married who has similarly difficult parents who is getting married didn't date til 24 or 25.

So, AJ -- are you saying I'm a difficult parent simply because I want my kids to wait until they are emotionally mature enough for everything that comes with dating?

Farmgirl

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BannaOj
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Farmgirl I would disagree with you slightly (but only slightly) I agree that people need to be financially independent before they marry.

However, when in college one is still often financially somewhat dependent on one's parents. (though I wasn't) College is a good place to meet people with similar aims and interests.

To lock yourself off totally from the possibility of a relationship in college seems a bit extreme. Theoretically upon graduation you should be able to attain employment and be independent. Sometimes it is more difficult than others though. Also, if the person loves you they would be willing to help you achieve your goals as well. If it meant moving to a different state so one person could pursue a PhD while the other held down a job, why not? That is what celia has done.

Especially with postgraduate degrees because they take so long. If you cut yourself off from posible relationships until the end of medical school I would consider it unhealthy.

AJ

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mr_porteiro_head
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If my wife and I already had 2 children by the time I was finished with school. [Big Grin]
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katharina
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I think it's important to date as a teenager, date a lot, date a lot of different kinds of people, and to fully and completely be there for you kids when they are dating so they don't look for affection and stability then from someone that they wouldn't pick if they weren't emotionally starved.

My middle brother was mixed up with a true, true nutcase as a teenager because he was so starved for affection after my mom died, and she needed him and showered him with all kinds of affection for being there for her. It was not a good thing.

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Belle
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I agree with FarmGirl 100%. I do not consider dating a necessary part of growing up and something that every child should experience.

Dating is a way to spend time with someone and determine whether or not this person is the one you want to spend the rest of your life with.

Why would I tell my daughter I don't want her to fall into sexual sin, lecture her on what is right and proper, explain to her why in our household we hold the religious beliefs we do, and then turn around and put her in a situation where she will face temptation? It's like saying "Don't go off the cliff!" And then shoving her right up to the precipice!

I see zero reason for dating while one is in high school. All of the fun and social aspects are available in group activities. Why should I let my daughter get into a situation that can be difficult for her?

We intend to allow our kids to do group activities with kids of parents we know. We have no trouble allowing them to go to movies with friends, or to Six Flags with a youth group. But one on one dating is not something we support for young teens.

That doesn't mean I don't trust my daughter. It doesn't mean I intend for her to be sheltered. It just means that I don't want to put her in situations I don't think she is emotionally mature enough for until she's ready. She's had us discuss this with her since she was old enough to even understand what dating is and she's well aware of the rules and the reasons for them and so far it doesn't bother her. She just knows that's the way things are in our household.

Some of her friends already go on dates! They go to movies with boys, one on one. At 11! I don't agree with that stance, and I don't let my daughter do it.

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BannaOj
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Actually the "difficult" part was in response to m_p_h not you at all Farmgirl.

I'm all for emotional maturity. The problem being that we were over protected to the point where emotions never had the chance to become mature.

We experienced a "delayed adolescence" that was much much harder because there was no one around you going through the same thing. Though fortunately my friend was more delayed than I was so that she had me to talk to.

At age 24 she was suddenly coming down with her first crush and dealing with the fact that she might actually be attracted to men and that they aren't all "icky". She was experienceing all of the emotions normally experienced in adolescence that she had never felt before.

We were taught to look down upon those emotions that they were basically worthless. So coping with them when you suddenly realize you are having them is quite a shock. You can't deal with them nearly as rationally and logically as we were taught to think. You suddenly learn logic doesn't apply to emotions well at all.

Yes you don't lose self control. But you lose yourself, because you suddenly realize that the entire logical framework that was taught you by your parents doesn't apply the way you thought it should because they never ever allowed you to have any emotions in that framwork. It is devestating to say the least and leaves you far far more emotionally vulnerable at an age when you shouldn't be. Normal adolescents all running around with their emotions and hormones hanging out all over the place all at the same time got it over with much more quickly and efficiently, than we were allowed to.

AJ

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katharina
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You date to get to know people. You date to find out the difference between the way good guys treat you and the crappy ones. You date for fun, for social development, and friends, and for life.

The above only works, though, if you have a very firm line on what you'll do physically. It's no problem to date five guys in a week, but you're kissing five guys in a week, there IS a problem.

This sort of ties in with the other thread, but I really think the physical makes some people crazy.

There's so much more fun and freedom in dating without the pressure to consumate the event. If you make it really clear that the date entails just getting to know one another, dating is a fabulous experience.

It's a scary thing, but life is scary. You can't keep your kids in a bubble - they will come out. Better to take the first few steps out when Mom is at home with ice cream at the end, willing to listen and not freak out.

For myself, I basically limited everything I was doing to things I could tell my mom about later. My mom was a socialite and flirt as a teenager, and she didn't freak out. Even the guys she dissaproved of didn't get a complete freak-out once I explained my reasoning.

[ March 30, 2004, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]

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BannaOj
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I have also noticed a distinct differences in generational definitions of "dating". My parents in their 50s have different definitions than people I know in their 40s. And 30s etc. And you can't convince the older generations that their definitions don't apply necessarily to the younger generations even though you can clearly see the difference in definitions even in between generations not your own.

I find that the older the person generationally from me the more rigidly they view dating as "finding a mate", while younger people view dating in a much more fluid social manner as more hanging out with friends and having a good time.

AJ

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Bob the Lawyer
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The thought that people date to find a spouse blows my mind. If I were to approach you and say, "hey, do you want to go out for coffee?" and I find out your first thought is, "Hmm... how would this man be as a father for my children?" I'd head for the hills.
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