posted
But Angel or Spike could kick his ass easily. I mean, sure, he has to be beheaded to die, but he doesn't really have superhuman strength, does he? Just lot's of time to practice with his katana.
posted
Unless they found a way to ressurect Rudolph Valentino, I think any version of the Immortal they show would never live up to the hype. I bet they he never appears onscreen. He'll be one of those character's like Norm's wife or Nile's wife [hey, at least it's a guy this time].
And: Omigosh! We got to see the back of Buffy's head *again*. That was soooo exciting! Maybe we'll get to see her forehead or an earlobe for the finale.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
So, does anyone else think the "I can no longer hear the song of the green" line is in reference to the alvin maker series?
Posts: 2489 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I don't know how common "the song of the green" theme is. Did it first appear in the AM series? Where did OSC get it from or was it his original idea? It seems like it could have come from someplace else, like common Native American folklore, even if my strongest association with that phrase springs from Red Prophet...
Posts: 1423 | Registered: Sep 2003
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I just realized, I have missed almost every episode, if I havenm't actually missed every episode of this season. Posts: 2332 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I will be sad to see it go. I think Amy Acker (fred) has done a great job. Particularly in the last episode where she had to change back and forth between good and bad.
Angel and Spike are very funny together.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
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quote:It has been nearly a year since the Buffy the Vampire Slayer series finale and now Angel is about to end its run as well. By the looks of things, Ripper will never happen and neither will any Buffy spin-off for that matter. Anthony Steward Head has not been approached in regards to doing this show so it is highly doubtful that it will ever happen.
Oh well, I wasn't that excited for it anyway.
I really thought they'd manage to at least pull in Willow for one of the last episodes. She's married to Wesley after all.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
*groan* Why do they have to end that show? Here I was just starting to really like it too. WB sucks. They should be called LTESIL.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I really wish they could have gone with the next season or at least added and ep. to do a real ending o well to late now. Mabey Joss will get to make a mini series or something for another brodcast company or get picked up by upn or fox(but thats probly hopeing for to much).*crosses fingers*
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It's always good to have another vampire with a soul waiting in the wings in case you have to sign away your prophecy rights.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I was thinking, what if an army of slayers had shown up to fight the army of deamons. I mean, why give up an opportunity to slay 50,000 evil deamons. Also, did angel still have Agent Hamilton's Senior Partner's powers, and if he did could they help them survive the fight? But even if they did survive I think gun would have died.
Posts: 2489 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
It is a good starting point for a crossover mini-series, isn't it. Army of slayers shows up just as Angel and the others are about to go down, then go after the senior partners themselves. Too predictable for Joss, though.
posted
I also thought that angel was ganna take on the panther in the white room. Why did they never use that place again after gun fought himself there?
Posts: 2489 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Well, maybe this is the best place to sneak in the news that Charisma Carpenter has an interview in a certain magazine that is now on the stands.
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Oh yeah, that completely blew away the Buffy finale.
And as much as I love the Buffyverse, I hope there is no tv movie for Angel; the finale was just too perfect. Too much happened; if there's a tv movie in which Angel becomes human, I'll be spitting mad.
I loved that moment. When Angel signed away the prophecy. I just sat there thinking "damn damn damn" to myself. It was gut wrenching. And he did it without hesitation.
I don't believe I've ever seen heroes sacrifice so much in the name of the battle. Angel signed away his soul and murdered a good man. Lorne basically did the same. This wasn't some been-there, done-that final sacrifice for the hero to make, like Spike "dying" in Buffy's finale was. I wasn't sure if Angel would become human by the end, but I sure as hell didn't expect him to lose all hope so... so casually. If they reverse that in a tv movie, I'll feel ripped off.
Lorne's scene was heartbreaking, totally unexpected. It really did seem that Lindsey was starting to change his mind about the whole evil thing. Scary to have him knocked off like that.
So was Eve's last seen, for that matter. No longer the bratty character she was at the start of this season.
Wesley's death... Ill made the scene. Ouch.
My initial reaction to the final scene was disgust, but I changed my mind after about 30 seconds of thought. I think that it was just about the best last scene for any series that I can think of.
I don't want there to be a tv movie in which we find out that Team Angel beat the demonic army and Angel gets humanity. I'll feel really, really cheated.
Posts: 1515 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I think maybe they should have let Lindsey live. As they pointed out, he was clearly a master swordsman, they could have used him against the demon armies, and it isn't like anyone was leaving that alley alive anyway.
Posts: 2332 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Came across this excerpt of an interview with Joss Wheedon in the Boston Herald - published yesterday:
quote:``The pain of loss that I felt when (WB) canceled the show I'm going to share,'' series creator Joss Whedon said in a recent telephone interview.
Whedon revealed that at least one character depicted in the opening credits will die tonight.
How did Whedon decide who would take the fall?
``Where can I twist the knife? How do I make a statement and where can I find my pain? Where's the most beauty, where's the most theme and where's the most pain?'' he said. ``In `Buffy (the Vampire Slayer),' I had restrictions on who I could kill because I had to go out on a happy ending. I couldn't kill the core Scoobies. I couldn't kill Dawn. . . . `Angel' is telling a darker tale, so I have more license to do what I wanted.''
Wheedon confirming once again that he operates from sadistic tendencies with his audience.
Posts: 4344 | Registered: Mar 2003
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My disappointment with the ending stems solely from the fact that I wanted to see Angel kill the dragon - or vice-versa.
Someone as flamable as a charcoal briquette stacked in lighter fluid might not be the best choice to fight a dragon...
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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And this is way late and not as polished as I'd like. But here's my analysis of the finale.
----- After the series finale of Angel, I thought that I was going to be writing a defense of the Manachean ending -- the forces of good poised to battle evil. But as I've thought about it, I've realized the ending isn't all that Manachean after all, despite the icon pose of four heroes weapons in hand staring down a rushing flood of demon warriors.
First, it's not as simple as good vs. evil because all the heroes are deeply scarred and not wholly pure.
Gunn has never fully recovered from his role in the revenge killing of the professor who sent Fred to the demon dimension. Sure, he didn't strike a fatal blow, but he was the one who pushed the man into the portal where he would be transported to a place where he wouldn't survive for long. And then, of course, in his attempt to retain the power boost to his brain, he signed the papers that set up the events that led to Fred's body being taken over by the demon Ilyria.
Fred herself is not quite as pure as the image she projects. Although Gunn gave the final push, Fred was the one who was out for blood and is most responsible for the whole professor thing. Of course, Fred is no longer Fred. She's already gone, her body now the vessel for Ilyria -- Ilyria who shows up for the final battle filled with grief for Westley, a demon finally affected by the vestigal humanity of her vessel, willing to stand and fight with the others Fred loved even though it's not really her battle. [BTW, is anyone else struck by how embodiment is such a constant theme in this series?]
Westley betrayed his best friend. Seduced by a (false) prophecy, he took Angel's infant son and delivered him to Holz. And then there's all the murky stuff after that -- forming a relationship with Lila, keeping Justine (?) locked up in a closet [so he could rescue Angel, but still…]. In fact, Westley's tragic flaw is that he thinks in stark, Manachean terms. It started with his failure with Faith, and despite how 'dark' he became, the flaw remained with him -- thus Connor, thus his leading role in doubting Angel this season, etc. This, I think, is part of the reason he was the one who died before the final fight [and the why the whole 'lie to me now' is so poignant]. He doesn't quite fit with the others.
Neither does Lorne. Which is why he isn't there. A compassionate, sensitive demon with a distaste for violence. I've never hear a silencer sound so mournful.
Finally we have the twin paradoxes -- Angel and Spike. The vampires with a soul. Angelus, one of the greatest mass murders the world has ever known and William, the bloody. Sure they are champions. But the demon is never far away with them. Angel is there to finish the fight that began when he fled Buffy's arms for LA. Spike -- he's living on borrow time anyway.
It's tempting to think that Angel has gone fey -- itching to battle to the end because he has given way his incentive to live [to life]. And yet the Shanshu prophecy was never what it was *really* all about. Sure, Angel would have liked to be fully human again. But his core motivation has always been redemption -- atoning for Angelus's bloody deeds.
And here we get to the second reason why it's not some simple Manachean struggle. It's not some ultimate, almost abstract, good vs. evil thing. It's much more human than that. From the beginning Angel and co. have been about freeing people -- individual humans -- from demonic influences. Slaying the demon, vampire or whatever so people can get back to their 'normal' lives. Angel reminds us in his stirring speech in the offices of Wolfram and Hart that you can't ultimately erase evil -- you can only slow it down, throw a wrench in the works. It may mow you down, but you still win by standing against it because in choosing to stand you assert what humanity is all about -- making choices.
Through five seasons Angel and co. have fought to create a city where individuals have the space, the room to choose their own fate, unterrorized by evil. The final fight at the end isn't some crazy suicide mission engaged in by world-weary individuals who have nothing left to lose. It's the final chapter of the battle they've been fighting. It's what they've been doing since the beginning -- writ large.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Zal, totally agree with your point. I hate to be nitpicky, but I just wanted to clear this one thing up:
quote:Sure, he didn't strike a fatal blow, but he was the one who pushed the man into the portal where he would be transported to a place where he wouldn't survive for long.
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Gunn snap the professor's neck before shoving him into the portal? Certainly seems like a fatal blow to me.
And just to add to your point about Gunn, I think he was also fighting with the fact that he wasn't able to safe Fred from killing the professor. Even though he did the deed, she still felt responsible, and so Gunn felt he lost her because of that.
Then, of course, the brain charge and Ilyria stuff, hehe.
Posts: 3852 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
ya, Fred was just going to let him take a tumble into Pylia, Gunn snapped his neck first
And Wesley kept that woman who worked with Holt locked up...though to be fair, she had slit his throat previously.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
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Really? I thought they were only showing the back of her head because they couldn't get SMG on the show. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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