posted
Remember that whether she wants to marry you or not is completely her choice. As much as I wanted to marry my (future) wife, I had to let her make up her mind about marrying me.
You're choosing your wife, and she's choosing her husband, and the choices coincide. It's a beautiful thing. Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
I posted last night when I was half delirious.
The thing about agreeing on money management or delegation of money management, is that the way you approach this one item tells a lot about the values you hold in the rest of your lives. If the values you hold are similar it should be easier to work out financial strategies than if they are drastically different.
quote:Not only about the LDS and temple thing - but the smelling issue.
If you're active LDS and not willing to give it up, religion is the biggest issue. Bigger than money, bigger than sex, bigger than just about everything. It's very, very hard to be actively LDS and be doing it by yourself. It often, often comes down to a choice between staying actively LDS or picking your spouse.
There are exceptions (at least one here at Hatrack), but those are the wildly, wildly rare exceptions. Expecting anything else is fooling yourself.
quote:Remember that whether she wants to marry you or not is completely her choice. As much as I wanted to marry my (future) wife, I had to let her make up her mind about marrying me.
AFR, while I LOVE that you recognize that, I can't even tell how much it annoys that it has to be said. I know you're not talking to T specifically, but it is unbelievable to me how many guys don't quite realize that their preferences and what they think of me are not the only factors in whether or not it's going to happen.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Because some guys have a sense of entitlement that because they are so Darn Cool, anyone they pick would be lucky to have him. And if they aren't quite sure, then they are obviously wrong. Since there's that whole Get Married commandment, not only are they wrong in some way, they are immoral for not wanting to marry him.
And I WISH I were kidding. Trust me, this is not a pleasant thing to discover about the human race.
I've always thought it was kind of one-sided to say "choose your spouse carefully." As if you could just walk up and pull her off the shelf. I did decide that my future wife was the woman I wanted to marry, but that wouldn't have counted for much if she hadn't decided she wanted to marry me as well (and she almost didn't). I had to sit on my thumbs many times to not start trying to persuade and cajole her into marrying me. I thought I had a good case, but I wanted her to make the choice on her own. The fact that she did is the most positive reassurance I have ever received in my life, and is a constant source of strength and confidence for me. Her approval keeps me working hard to become the type of man who deserves it.
Men who choose their wives and expect them to accept the choice are thinking of them in terms of expensive property or social investments. I can't say what the women are thinking when they "accept." But that's what the men are thinking.
Posts: 144 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Okay, time for me to get serious for a sec:
T, if being LDS is important to you, then I believe that is the most important thing in the world (like what Kat said). Here's why.
Because a belief in Christ and commitment to following what he wants for your life will outweigh ANY struggles you may have, and I truly believe that. When two people both work hard to please God, they will make decisions that are pleasing to each other, and/or learn to live with those decisions.
That aside, pick a really hot one, and chemistry will never be a problem.
Breakdown: First, same convictions in religion as you. Distant second, but still very important: Chemistry.
(Not to say that compatability isn't important, but I do believe that it is often the natural reaction to be attracted to a person with a compatable (read: opposite) personality to you. As far as kindness and respectfulness and all that good stuff, that should be covered in the "commitment to Christ" area.)
quote:Men who choose their wives and expect them to accept the choice are thinking of them in terms of expensive property or social investments.
No kidding. And it's supposed to be flattering!
This is obviously a sore point for me. When I was 22, a friend I had known from high school proposed, and I was just...enough of a needy Tragedy Girl (at the time) and trusted him enough at the time to agree before my brain kicked in. I'm dumb about a lot of things, but not dumb enough to make THAT decision from anything other than a position of thoughtful stability. When I said I needed a little bit of time to think about it (and adjust to being home. I'd been home from my mission for three weeks.), he did not react well. You know that whole warning that bishops give that no one else can get answers to your prayers? I thought it was a joke until I told him that I didn't feel right about it, and he told me that since he DID feel right about it, and since he was the one who had the priesthood, then I was getting was obviously wrong and I needed to listen to him, and he was dissapointed in me that I'd question priesthood authority like that.
I'm pretty sure there's a special place in hell for guys that misuse it like that. Especially since my testimony of the authority of the priesthood was aquired amidst so many tears and prayers in the first place. Obviously, his reaction made MY decision much, much easier to make.
So, yes, thank you for what you said. And bravo to you for not pressuring her.
posted
I always thought choice had little or nothing to do with love; it would be like saying that there's choice involved in getting hit by a falling piano as you're walking down the sidewalk. I don't think anyone sat back and said "Hmm... You know, I think I'm gonna fall in love with NO WAIT!... Yeah. Yeah, the blonde. Looks nice in slacks."
Posts: 2258 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Belle, I am not wrong. We just have different opinions and preferences.
Kat, Yeah. Those "I had a vision" proposals are evil.
Okay, maybe you don't choose a spouse like you choose a laundry detergent. But it pays to be careful where you shop.
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posted
kat, every time I hear stories about LDS guys that try to talk girls into marriage by claiming either revelation or authority (which is too often for comfort), I am tempted to think it's just a joke, or that it's something that happened to someone once, and the story just spread and became a Mormon Urban Legend. And then I hear from someone to whom it actually happened. Like you. And my mind boggles.
Posts: 1652 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Book, I believe choice has a LOT to do with love. I believe it is impossible to "fall in love" with someone without first choosing to get to know them well enough to fall in love. I also believe that you can choose NOT to fall in love. I do recognize, however, that you can't simply choose to fall in love, like, "Hey, I think I'll fall in love with that person there. Oh, it worked."
Posts: 1652 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I know all about that kind of revelation. My mom gets one everytime she meets a good-looking guy who'll sleep with her right away and treat ther like crap.
God told her that they should get married.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
And finally, for my answer to the original question.
I have long held the opinion that genuine friendship is the most important factor in marriage. That is why I think that you should become good friends with someone before you ever seriously consider marrying them, or even becoming deeply romantically involved.
When thinking about whom to marry, look for someone who has the qualities you would want for your closest personal friend.
I have never understood those marriages in which one or both spouses wants to spend all available spare time hanging out with "the guys" or "the girls," meaning, in my mind, their "real" friends, since of course they could never have any fun with a spouse that doesn't involve the marital bed.
Posts: 1652 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I remember once a teacher had us do a thought exercise. He had us for about five minutes write down all the qualities that we wanted in our future spouse. Then we were stopped and envisioned that wonderful person in the mind's eye. Then we were to imagine what kind of person that person would be attracted to. The point was that if you want to attract that kind of person, you need to become someone that he/she would be attracted to themselves.
I have seen many people fail to realize this. I have known overweight guys that would never consider dating anybody that weighed over 110 lb.. It's so sad and pathetic, it makes me cry.
posted
Close your eyes and think about yourself in the future. Now look to the side and see who's right next to you.
Think about the worst time in your life, and think about who you would want at your side if you had to go through it again.
Think about the thing you hate to do more than anything in the world, and figure out the one person you would not only do it for, but would be happy to do it for.
Think about who you want to call first when you find out you got promoted. Then think about whether you'd be happier about your promotion or learning about hers/his.
Think about who you want to call first when you find out someone close to you died.
Think about who you would give your most precious possession to, not for safekeeping, but to do with as s/he will.
posted
Well, implicit in that is that someone isn't ready to get married until the answer isn't a parent, sibling, or fictional commanding officer of a P.O.W. camp.
Edit: Wow, Shan, that was about 1.25 seconds longer than I thought I'd get, best case.
posted
The problem with practicing humility is that as soon as you think you're getting better at it you're not.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I'm glad you said that, Dag! I was trying so hard to think of way to say something like that, but nothing sounded funny. Good job.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I thought Rivka's post was fantastic. The only thing I would add is that a potential spouse should have an ethic of growth, rather than reaching a level of comfort and maintaining it.
In Utah, it is not unlikely that there are many girls who didn't have education emphasized for them growing up, so I would say don't discriminate too much on "intelligence". I think they should be your equal in potential, even if they haven't read or studied as much as you.
I have this great book called Till Debt Do Us Part (Oddly, my husband won't read it because he thinks the title is fatalistic, but there was an earlier version called Love and Money ) It begins with a values inventory, assuming that money is an expression of values and that people who can sympathize with each other's values can overcome disagreements about money. I don't want to crash his copyright by listing it all, by my hierarchy of values was as follows: (you get to pick 10 out of 30 and rank them)
1. A meaningful relationship with God. 2. A fulfilling marriage 3. Success in a job or career (where my job is childrearing). 4. Honesty and personal integrity 5. Learning, gaining knowledge continually 6. Emotional security, freedom from excessive stress 7. Good health and physical fitness 8. Helping the poor, sick and disadvantaged 9. Social recognition and community status 10. Having nice things, such as cars, boats, furniture
It also has an interesting section about finances and birth order. But I'll probably put that in another thread.
P.S. Yes, there were 20 things that I want nice things more than. None of them was "World Peace", though.
posted
I think love is my only criterion. I want to marry someone I'm completely in love with, who loves me as much or more. I think the rest will work itself out.
Here's how I could tell.
1. We each are better people together than we were alone. We are kinder, harder working, better at our jobs, better children/siblings/etc. to our families, calmer, saner, and happier people when we're together.
2. We each put the other's needs and problems ahead of our own. We both find joy in being of service to the other.
3. We each think of the other many times a day. We talk about the other one a lot, making excuses to bring the other's name into every conversation.
4. We each think the other is better than we deserve, and want to try to live up to be the person the other one really ought to have.
5. We each enjoy thinking of ways to make the other one happy. Whether it's little gifts or just thoughtful or loving things to say or do, we each take great joy in constantly inventing new ways of making the other one smile.
6. We each admire the other as people, we think highly of each other's talents and qualities as human beings. We each want the other to succeed, to achieve their dreams, to accomplish great things.
7. The saddest day together is happier than the happiest day alone. We each are grateful for the other person, and perpetually amazed that we should be loved by someone such as that.
I think so long as this is true, then everything else can be worked out. I think that in such a case, the love and joy would just build and build up to the sky and beyond, for the rest of eternity. I don't look for that to happen to me in this life, but that's how I picture my marriage. That is what I look for.
Posts: 2843 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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quote: 7. The saddest day together is happier than the happiest day alone.
There are some people that this can never be true for. Some of us really enjoy solitude. So, I guess somebody like me would never make it onto your list. Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I guess I didn't mean that exactly. What I meant was the saddest day after we were together (whether spent together or not) was happier than the happiest day before we were together.
But anyway, I heard you were already married. Posts: 2843 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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posted
I'm looking for what she has described and judging by the specific way she wrote that post, I think it is safe to assume that she has found someone who fit that description.
Man, is this a sapy post or what? Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Beren, I couldn't figure out why either. No need for jealousy here. So far I've only just tasted it enough to know what it would be like. Yet even that one taste, maybe, is reason enough for jealousy. I know I would not trade it for anything.
PSI, for me love never quits. I have to work hard for years to get over someone, even when I'm trying my very best, after they go away or decide they don't love me, or something.
If somehow it happened that my feelings were ever to disappear, I do know how to get them back. (I mean in addition to waiting with faith and knowing the feelings will return.) The secret to how to generate love for someone in your heart is very simple. Just render them loving service. When you do that consistently over time, your heart will surely come to love them greatly. It's very easy.
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posted
I would just like to point out that it's perfectly o.k. to leave your religion or, for that matter, to join one for the sake of your spouse or, Bob love ya, go to two different churches!!!!, as long as your 'core' values are basically the same.
I honestly believe that all the 'major' religions in this country are pretty much equivalent, anyway. So, it's not that big of a deal.
So, T., if you meet a nice Jewish girl, or a Catholic girl, or whatever, please feel free to date and marry her.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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It's a matter of time. What about.. well, what about tithing? And remember the priesthood thing? Where do the kids get baptized? Church is three hours long on Sundays and there's stuff during the week. The amount of scriptures quadruple. The amount of comprimises that would have to be made is amazing, and for many of them, you'd have to choose between your religion and your family. If you really believe your religion, that's a terrible choice. Why set yourself up for it?
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