posted
Wow, I hate it even more if it's intended for adults.
I didn't think it was possible for my hatred of this story to grow upon further reflection.
By the way, nobody is getting me angry. My strong visceral reaction to this story is not anything I would take out on another human being. (Unlike the guy who grabbed me by the collar as we exited the theater after watching Bambi.)
Anyway, we don't all have to like the story.
One of my favorites is A Christmas Carol by Dickens and I know many people who just hate that thing.
I think The Gift of the Magi is an example of why people shouldn't try to surprise each other.
And Animal Farm is NOT about Communism. It's talking animals. That's all!
posted
In my opinion, the story is terrible for teaching about being selfless. Whether it's immediate or not, giving does change people on both ends. His sacrifices were for nothing.
I don't like the story being paralleled with Christ. Christ was fully aware of what people said about him. His love for each one of us is so deep that there aren't even words to describe it. And many people actually were grateful for the smaller things He did.
Because of this, I think it's insulting to compare a town idiot to Christ.
posted
True ralphie, but I a small problem with that thought, global happiness is near impossible, and it is nearly impossible for any single person or group of people to achieve it, so there is a point where we can only do what we can achieve, and that may be our own happiness and those nearest to us. But with the thought and hope of achieve how to some sort of communial happiness as a step to global happiness, my point still stands, people aren't doing it anymore, in fact...they're barely paying attention to happiness anymore, people are just going about their lives and jobs because they have to, not because they want to...at least most people. The majority of American continually change careers because they don't like it, I think I can safely say the majority of the people I know aren't happy with their jobs, and the majority of the ones that are...are professors and teachers.
To put emphasis for current and future readers: My concentration for this story is the search for happiness, not altruism, nor any comparison to religious figures. The only thing this story is suppose to show (metaphorically or otherwise), is a man's achievement of his personal happiness, reading into it any deeper is useless, and a moot point. For some reason, I doubt the original creator meant it for anything else. Satyagraha
posted
Bernie - People not focusing on global happiness doesn't mean it should stop being the goal.
In fact, I would say that enabling someone else's bad behavior because you refuse to grow up, learn from your mistakes, and disconnect from unhealthy people is one of the strongest fertilizers in which to grow unhappiness and general discontent. Continuing these habits in pursuit of your own personal happiness? I would say that this is just as selfish.
The "tale" says the guy is an idiot, not developmentally disabled.
I seriously think that the author was going for something deeper and missed.
But that's okay. I can understand the search for personal happiness.
I'd even go so far as to support highly idiosyncratic approaches to the search for happiness. Why not? Who's to tell me where my happiness lies? As long as I'm not hurting anyone else in my pursuits, what's the big deal, right?
Now, let's look at this from another standpoint. Did this guy have a family? Did he harm them by foolishly giving away everything he could've used to their benefit? Was his wife deprived of his company when he was finally eaten by the monsters? Did his achievement of personal happiness really stem from a selfish act afterall?
We'll never know. All we're given is this weird little allegory about a guy who dies happy thinking someone has finally given him a gift.
It's starting to strike me as something far outside the Western culture in which I grew up. Maybe if I tried to understand it from a cultural perspective I might get some insight from it. Is it a Japanese story (you mentioned anime earlier)? Is this something that illuminates an aspect of Japanese culture?
I must be overanalyzing it.
LOL
by the way, I also hated that anime movie Swept Away, or Blown away, whatever it was called. Where the little girl's parents turn into pigs and she becomes a slave and some weird monster saves her but eats everyone else... Whisked away? What was it called?
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I viscerally hate "Hart's Hope" and "Kingsmeat" but I think the stories have important merit. If nothing else, they get you thinking.
Spirited Away. (love that movie!)
I think you are onto something, Bob. The story feels very Eastern. I have come a lot closer to Japanese culture these last few years and come to appreciate their very different approach to life.
posted
Well, my personal definition of it is a little bit more involved than that. People are certainly encouraged to express their opinions. Where we get into trouble is when people decide that they are absolutely right for all people and for all time.
It usually starts over something like religion, politics or breastfeeding (just kidding on that last one).
Typical exchanges will be something like:
1) Well, we're all one in Jesus. 2) I'm not Christian, does that leave me out? 3) Jesus loves you anyway. 4) Um, thanks, but that doesn't really mean anything to me...
<insert escalation of argument here>
20) Jesus was a fraud who ruined the lives of countless Jews, and besides he didn't even exist.
21) You're going to hell. In fact, you are so damned to hell that even if you converted right now, you'll still end up in hell!
Okay, I'm exagerating, but still...these things are seldom fun for any but the participants.
But you didn't have to change your post if you really felt that strongly about it. Who knows, you might enjoy a good flame war now and again.
posted
I personally believe that everytime Bob uses the little green supa-smiley he's condemning himself to a hell that even the shed blood of weezer's savior won't be able to propitiate.
Just my opinion, of course. Don't flame me.
Posts: 7600 | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
*snicker* No, I knew who you meant. And I'm curious if I get a response.
(And this, boys and girls, is why I never ever send link to Hatrack to any of my siblings. Let them stay disdainful of my forums! )
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:In fact, I don't think I've hated a story this much in years. It's horrid. What kind of lesson is that to give children? Be a doormat, you'll be happy even if everyone laughs behind your back?
There are many different ways to interpret this story.
But what I am getting from this story is who the heck cares if people are laughing behind you're back or if people are cheating you out of things. If you yourself are happy with where your at, then that is all that matters. Who cares if they believe think that you are stupid or are ignorant. I wouldn‘t- that is, care. Be happy with yourself and care less what others think of you or what others say of you- if you are happy, then you are happy. That is all that matters.
With me for example, I always dress in baggy clothes that I've had for years (some T-Shirt I had since 4th grade). My baggy clothes has nothing to do with my weight, at five four, I weigh 115 pounds and am content with it. I've just been wearing baggy clothes since I was six and I am rather attached to it. It has nothing to do with low self-esteem because anyone who knows me will know, that I am happy with my er- physical appearance. I just stand stubbornly with my belief that I should not conform societies standards and just be me. I know that there are people at school who laugh at me behind my back but do I care? No. I am happy my baggy clothes that I've had since I was a munchkin and if people think I am stupid for wearing it then well screw them. My personal happiness is all that matters- for me.
Of course you can take that idea and mold it into the concept that people should do bad things for their own personal happiness but I just doubt that is the message this story is truly trying to promote.
Added at End: Bah! I always take way too long to post. Now this thread has spiraled into a giant ball of fluff. Posts: 181 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Azile, yes, I realize that sort of thing is what the author was probably trying to convey. I just think he or she missed the mark by a bit and could've done a far better job than portraying the protagonist as an ACTUAL idiot, as opposed to someone who everyone believes to be an idiot.
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posted
Bernard, if personal happiness at the moment of death is all it takes to justify one's life, would you say that dying of a blissful, hallucinogenic drug overdose is a good and redemptive thing?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I don't know... I think the brain probably releases endogenous morphines at the moment of death anyway. Sort of a massive stress reliever, you know.
We probably trip into the next world anyway.
But just in case, don't hesitate to give me my morphine allotment.
Mmmm morphine....
okay, I had it once after surgery. I really, really liked it.
I'm not saying I'm going to go out and buy it for myself, but it made surgery a lot more fun than it would've been otherwise.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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Very good point, Tom. And in spite of the conversation, I almost want to say yes. But for the sake of argument, I'll say no because most people like living more than dying (which is altogether a different argument).
With that thought, I continue to wonder what would allow everlasting happiness, refering to the anime series, the story was given as an antecedent about the main character, who spent a small portion of the money that she was going to use to pay for her high school tuition on gifts for her friends on Valentine's Day (mind you that she did pay her tuition, just a little later than normal). She did this because she loved her friends, and gave them gifts as a sign of friendship and showed them that she was happy to be with them (to quickly answer Bob, the author of the story did mean it to only show happiness and was keen to point it out in the story). With that in mind, I'm probably not taking the story as literally as most of you are...probably because of the context I recieved in. I see him going about and dying ON the path to attain happiness, and I see too many people around me completely forgetting about happiness and just stumbling through life without a thought of why they're doing what they're doing... :: gets all introspective and quiet :: Satyagraha
Posts: 1986 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
From reading about drugs and accounts of people who have died clinically, death sounds more like an extremely dysphoric dissociative trip. Something to be avoided. One account told of viewing their loved ones dying in horrible ways, life flashing before the eyes in bad ways, horrible stuff like that. If a normal death is really like this, then dying of a drug overdose (depending upon the type of drug and how pleasant OD actually is) sounds better than any other type of death.
Being happy only in your death may not be a good thing if the price is unhappiness up to that point. On the other hand, better pure bliss at death and an unhappy life than an unhappy life and a bad DXM trip at the end. Better still to lock your mind to "happy" as much as is possible throughout one's life. I would not call any of those options redeeming, but one is very good and one is somewhat good.
Why should global happiness be the goal? I have yet to see a convincing argument for valuing the happiness of those who deliberately and maliciously cause you harm or pain over your own happiness. I really have not even seen conclusive proof that the happiness of others in general is a higher moral goal than my own happiness. The only time I could see valuing the happiness of a group over my own is if I actually cared about the group for my own reasons.
Also, global happiness will never be attained because some people need opposite things to make them happy. Why bother with something that is futile?
Edit: spelling again. The worst part is that was the word I was trying to fix! I have been at work too long.
quote:Why should globab happiness be the goal? ...
. . .
Edit: spelling
I don't know, but I think if we can't achieve globab happiness, we're just a complete waste as a species.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Then we are a waste. Oh well. Most of the enjoyable parts of life are complete wastes of time.
Posts: 1364 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:...concentrating on the part where he's found happiness...
Our hero may have found contentment, but he fell far short of my personal definition of happiness.
A baby born and raised in a garbage can, never seeing the light of day, may be content because he doesn't know what he's missing, but is he happy? Marshmallows may be content, but are they happy?
In my opinion happiness requires learning and changing: discovering what has value and obtaining it.
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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