posted
Why do you think Jews have a duty to produce more Jews? I am Anglo-Saxon AFAIK, and I could care less if there were no more Anglo-Saxons or white people in general ever born. I do not understand the concept of duty to an ethnicity.
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posted
And if Jews were merely an ethnicity, I would agree with you, Danzig. However, Jews are far more than an ethnic group, so I agree with MrsM on this. To illustrate, I think the responsibility devolves upon converts (who surely are not ethnically Jewish) equally.
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posted
More than an ethnic group? You mean the religious stuff? If Judaism is true, why would God need help preserving his followers?
Besides, I thought you were Jewish if your mother was Jewish. Is it different for different sects? (Not sure if that is the right word; I am thinking of Reform, Orthodox, etc.) Why do female Jews need to marry male Jews? Edit: I realize this paragraph is a bit of a tangent.
Every child is a three-way partnership between God and its parents.
While it is true that Judaism is determined by the mother, Jewish children deserve to be raised in a Jewish home. And that's difficult to do if one parent is not Jewish.
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I remember something Gandhi said to someone Hindu who confessed he had murdered an Islamic person and felt terrible and asked how he could ever make amends. Gandhi told him to go and find Islamic children who had been orphaned by the fighting. And to adopt them and love them dearly and raise them, but to raise them as good Muslims. That was such a great thing, I think.
I would like to give my children EVERY religion, every viewpoint, every worldview they can possibly be exposed to, so that they might best choose their own paths.
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posted
Danzig, there is also the little factoid that the Jewish culture is disappearing due to assimilation.
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I guess. I doubt I would care if American culture was disappearing, but I suppose there is probably more worth saving in the Jewish culture. (Is there? 90% of everything is crap, but does that mean that American culture is part of the 90% and Jewish the 10%, or is it that 90% of both American and Jewish cultures is crap?)
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posted
Danzig, I'm sure that you don't mean to be offensive, but you should be aware that your tone is somewhat discourteous.
quote:Why do you think Jews have a duty to produce more Jews? I am Anglo-Saxon AFAIK, and I could care less if there were no more Anglo-Saxons or white people in general ever born. I do not understand the concept of duty to an ethnicity.
First of all, I think you're painting too broad a picture of your own ethnicity. Are you a WASP (white Anglo-Saxon Protestant)? Are you a German-English Catholic? I'm Anglo-Saxon and I'm Jewish. You have to factor religion in when you discuss ethnicity.
Also, consider that Judaism is thousands of years older than many ethnicities. We survived for this long because we fulfill and honor our duty to produce and raise Jewish children.
quote:More than an ethnic group? You mean the religious stuff? If Judaism is true, why would God need help preserving his followers?
Well, we take the "religious stuff" pretty seriously. As I stated above, you cannot divorce ethnicity from religion. As to the second part of your question, I assume it is rhetorical. I will say that our tradition has lasted for thousands of years against overwhelming, seemingly insurmountable odds.
quote:Besides, I thought you were Jewish if your mother was Jewish. Is it different for different sects? (Not sure if that is the right word; I am thinking of Reform, Orthodox, etc.
Yes, if your mother is Jewish, then you are Jewish according to our laws. For example, my father is a WASP and I am fully Jewish nonetheless. The Reform movement does consider the children of a Jewish father and Gentile mother Jewish if the child is raised Jewish. Orthodox and Conservative denominations do not.
quote:Why do female Jews need to marry male Jews?
In addition to the reason that rivka mentioned, there is a prohibition against intermarriage in the Torah:
quote:3 neither shalt thou make marriages with them: thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. 4 For he will turn away thy son from following Me, that they may serve other gods; so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and He will destroy thee quickly.
posted
I suppose I would be WASP... certainly I was. Still, it would have made no difference whether all Ps were WAS's or recent African converts, and I would shed no tears to learn that WAS or WASP culture in its current incarnation would be dead in two generations.
I know Judaism is old, but old is not necessarily better. (Not trying to imply it is worse.)
I totally understand wanting your children to marry someone of the same religion, but not ethnicity. I do believe religion can be divorced from ethnicity, or perhaps the other way around. I was a WASP; now I am probably not. Would you care if your children married a Jew of another Jewish denomination? Of another religion entirely? It is one thing to want your grandchildren raised in the Jewish religion by two religious Jews; it is another to want them raised outside the religion by two ethnic Jews.
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quote: I have a question for people involved in or knowing of any intercultural marriage: how does such a couple choose the names for their children ?!
Porter's brother, who is married to a Japanese gal, just recently became a father. They named their little girl Karisa, a Japanese name that, quite conveniently, is awfully similar to the English name Karissa. Of course, you can't always do that sort of thing--find a name that exists in both cultures.
Oh, and Porter's and my marriage was *definitely* intercultural, ak. It's amazing our two families co-exist in the same country. Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Jews don't really have denominations---instead they have sects. Some sects of the Hewbrew faith are more strict and adhere more directly to the Torah. Marriage outside the faith, particularly in the more strict sects, is forbidden. Should a marriage occur outside the faith, the child is treated as if he or she is dead to their family.
Less orthodox families belonging to more modern sects of Judaism don't hold to that belief so strongly. My own brother married into a Jewish family, so his daughter is Jewish, even if he is not. I'm wondering how her own ethnic/religious identity will be effected in the future (she's four now) by the split in her own family.
I think intercultural marriages can work, but there have to be clear understandings about each culture going in. American culture can be so different than other cultures in the way we view women and their rights as well as child rearing and other important parts of being married.
Of course, my now defunct marriage was to a fellow American and that didn't work either because our own personal cultures were so different...go figure... Posts: 392 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote: My spouse is Asian. But here is a question to you all. Why does it seem more American White Men marry out side of their culture/race then American White Females? Does that say something about American White Men, Other Countries Men, Other Countries Women, American White Women, or does it hold no significance?
This is a fascinating question and one I must ponder myself since I had the option of marrying someone of another culture/race. I was pretty hesitant to take him from his country when I felt he was needed there. And I knew my *very* close-knit family would have hated for me to live out of the country and on the other side of the planet.
I wonder if it has anything to do with the proposed sentiment in the scripture:
quote: Gen. 2: 24
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
That idea is repeated several times in later scriptures. There is the idea here of a man leaving his family behind, as though when he gets married his ties to his parents are no longer strong. And yet no such statement is made about the ties between the woman and her parents.
But this does not explain why Asian women would be more likely to marry an American man than the other way around.
To be honest, I have always looked at it as the desire of American men to have more subserviant wives. The Asian cultures tend to be very male-dominated in general, and most American women would not be willing to submit to such authority as Asian men may be accustomed to having.
Now, I don't know if this is true, and it is not a very flattering idea for American men married to Asian women to accept. After all, my brother-in-law married a Japanese gal. While both of them insist that she is very bold and open for a Japanese, to us silly Americans, she seems awfully compliant and eager to please. (She is a gracious and beautiful person, but she is not very assertive--for an American, anyway.) I think that on a certain level, this is very pleasing to him, whether he realizes it or not.
These cultural/social/sexual differences may or may not apply to other cultures. But I think there is also the "exotic" concept that often appeals more to men that to women, methinks.
posted
I think it depends on what interculture marriages you're talking about. For instance, I've seen far, far, far more white girls marry black guys than vice versa, and far more white guys marry Asian girls than vice versa. *shrug*
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quote: To be honest, I have always looked at it as the desire of American men to have more subserviant wives. The Asian cultures tend to be very male-dominated in general, and most American women would not be willing to submit to such authority as Asian men may be accustomed to having.
It works the other way, too. I've spoken to women from other cultures who say that American men are more open to the idea of treating women as equals than men from other cultures, and they like this. Perhaps this was just said to please me, an American male. Dunno. But it was said.
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It started out innocently, with me asking him what his family did for Christmas, and me in turn describing what we did. It expanded from there--I was curious about Chinese culture, he was curious about mine, like I said. We talked about children: Bernard said his family has Chinese names and English names, so he wants to have Irish names for our children.
Today, for example, we went to Chinatown in Chicago and Bernard was our "cultural tour guide", and we asked him many (probably annoying) questions about food and other things. He also taught me how to say "thank you" in Mandarin--I think I did pretty well, for an uneducated white chick. (although I got him to roll his eyes more than once )
And since religion came up... I'm Catholic, he's not. It's important for me to have my children baptized, and he's ok with it so far. When we have children, however, they will be brought up with a knowledge of other religions, and if they wish to convert we will support them.
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