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I'll be discussing plot points, don't come in if you don't want to read 'em. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . It's not better than the first. It completes the first. The first movie set up his life and the directions for his future, this movie shows how that works out for him. Or doesn't, as the case may be.
I've praised it in the non-spoiler thread. Here I can bitch about my minor complaints without ruining it for anybody.
My major complaint: Spidey is a smart ass. It's a big part of who he is, that he can talk that freely with the mask on. Besides, it enrages his foes and makes them sloppy. He's a bit snappier here than in the first, but I wanted more. Agreed, most of the action happens too quickly for snappy patter. But there were times and opportunities lost and that bugged me a bit.
When Pete lost his powers, I thought for sure it was a virus. It would mirror what happened in the comics years back when he faced Doc Ock early on. He had a 24-hour flu that sapped his strength and he went out to fight anyway, getting defeated and unmasked. That would have been a nice homage to the comic. Instead he apparently had a crisis of faith and his powers slipped away. That annoyed me. It annoyed me the same way it annoys me when, in Smallville, Clark's powers can be stripped away and even transferred without much of a fuss. The powers are part of who he is, it's not like someone stole his gym shoes and he can't run anymore. It was, to me, a cheap way of dramatizing his inner turmoil. Woulda been just as easy to make it the flu, showing him as still human, still flawed.
John Jameson got stiffed big time. At least in the novelization he and MJ have a moment where she confesses her love for Peter and John lets her go. Gave him his dignity back in a way that the movie version didn't. MJ wouldn't just leave a note. She'd tell him.
Remember, I loved the movie and will probably be seeing it again tonight. Just wanted to get my fanboy venting out.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I laughed out loud at the end. The last five minutes were quite heavy-handed, I thought. Ooo, exorcising demons... wait, there's a room full of Green Goblin stuff? Didn't see that coming Oh look, she ran away from her wedding. How cute.
Other than that, I loved it. The "Raindrops Keep Fallin' on My Head" was out of place but somehow worked. Very good.
Final rating: 2.5/4 for quality (come on, not all the acting was there...), 3.5/4 for fun (stupid ending), total 6/8
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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I agree, Chris...Spidey is a smart-ass. But then, I think he sort of worked up to that. If memory serves, he wasn't as smart-alecky when he first put on the suit. It took awhile.
Perhaps they were worried about the film seeming more shallow if they included the almost constant sarcastic remarks that are one of Spidey's trademarks. I can see why they didn't-in the comics, it's like every second panel has one.
I really loved the way they handled Otto. It was another complicated villain (I felt the same way about Willem's Goblin).
I think they way they should've dealt with the crisis was have him sick *and* doubting. They could've dovetailed nicely, since the sickness offers Peter a decent excuse to hang up the suit once and for all. Having it be *entirely* psychosomatic was a bit much.
May's reaction to Peter's mostly-confession was spot-on. I was also shocked when they said another person died in that fiery building. Well-done.
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I think the snarky Spidey was decent to be missing. He did some of this in the first movie, as was appropriate (he was cocky, then). In this movie, he is waaaay over tired and stressed out and Spidey was now the third job, not avocation. I think the next one will have a bit more of a confident and "whole" Spidey...until things fall apart, naturally.
Otto was great. I like my movie villains being a bit more than the evil ones in comics...those mostly need to come back to do evil again, but movie ones usually have an arc to complete. So complex is great and Molina, as always, was wonderful.
J. Jonah stole his scenes, as always. "Your fired. Wait, no, you're unfired."
I like the set up of new villains for next movie...could be partially Hobgoblin (wasn't that the Son of Green Goblin?...missed some of those) but wasn't one origin of "Venom" as a space alien that came back with an astronaut...one that, oh, might have a thing about competing with spider guys...and then, oh, killing them.
Train sequence, especially the end, was almost one of my favorites. I love the NYC love affair with Spidey that is in the comics from time to time. The best was when after doing the near impossible of stopping the train, he begins to fall only to be helped back by citizens (the "catch" was the best part). The "carrying over the head" thing might have been a bit much, but it worked for sappy ol' me.
Questions: Did Aunt May figure out Pete was Spidey? That monologue in driveway implied as much. My Spidey lore is weak, especially recent stuff...does May know in the "adult" (meaning, not kid in Ultimate) version of Spidey? I know MJ does at some point (sheesh...maybe before the wedding?)
Interesting about the comparisons to "Smallville." Millar and Gough were listed with Story credits for this movie (along with Chabon...do you think he did much? He is being given a lot of credit for the "human" element of the story).
Gosh, I got to see this again and soon. My wife wasn't able to have the stamina for the midnight movie so I think we might do the flick this weekend. Great stuff.
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In the comics, Harry was the second Green Goblin...there have been several versions, including the annoying resurrection of the original. The original Hobgoblin's identity is currently unknown (I think) though for a while he was Ned Leeds (a reporter); they retconned him back out.
Aunt May currently knows who Spider-Man is, after discovering a trashed costume lying around after Spidey was nearly killed and Peter came home to collapse in bed. Previously, "Aunt May" revealed that she had known for years, but it turned out she was an actress hired by the resurrected Norman Osborn.
Posts: 1114 | Registered: Mar 2004
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I was a bit disappointed, but only because all the reviews I had seen made it out to be the next Lord of the Rings. It also bothers me that Spiderman is physically inferior to the villians he faces. Goblin's glider had to turn on him and Doc Ock was never really beaten at all. But overall it was a very enjoyable movie.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Point of order: Spider-Man defeated the Goblin in the first movie. Gobby was down and pleading. The glider killed him, but Spider had already won the fight.
And, in the comics Ock is usually more powerful than Spidey. His arms certainly are. Spidey generally wins by trickery, by getting through to beat on Doc himself, or by getting the arms out of the way and immobilized.
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Part of the thrill of watching Spider-Man in action (or reading about him) is that Spidey is not a "natural" hero--he's not a myth made flesh like Superman. He has to overcome overwhelming odds, and we sympathize with him, because sometimes our own lives are like that on a smaller scale. Mythic heroes can be inspiring, but they're hard to identify with.
For the most part, Marvel has made its reputation trading off ironic heroes like Spidey, whereas DC has tended to focus on the mythic end. This division into niches is what allows them both to remain the giants of the comics industry instead of one dominating and eventually destroying the other. The plus is that it gives us a more diverse population of superheroes to look up to (and newcomers can more easily see the gaps that remain to come up with good comics ideas).
Posts: 1114 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:The original Hobgoblin's identity is currently unknown (I think) though for a while he was Ned Leeds (a reporter); they retconned him back out
The Ned Leeds as Hobgoblin had a major weakness, because a non-superhuman person broke Ned's arm when he died. The Hobgoblin creator had left, and they missed this little plot point.
He came back and did a mini-series that took all his original clues and fulfilled them. It was one of the Kingsleys (brothers who had hired MJ to do modeling work at some point). This was all in Hobgoblin Lives, and was a great return to the mid-80s Spider-Man days.
My big beef was the movie was the mask coming off all the time. Spidey doesn't take off his mask that much. He just doesn't.
I did like that the movie showed exactly why Doc Ock is so powerful, and what Spidey's true strengths in combat are (the speed and the spider sense).
I give the movie 3.75 out of 4 stars - best movie I've seen in years.
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I don't know, I thought Spidey pretty much beat the Ock and had him down for the count and left himself open to get to the "real" Otto...Ock was lying in a pool, pretty much drained. "Defeat" doesn't have to mean killing him. Ibid with previous poster's statement about Goblin.
Thanks for clarification of Hobgoblin.
One other little bit that I thought was inspired and fairly subtle. MJ was in a wonderful play, "The Importance of Being Ernest." Probably most on HTF are familiar with it (a better read stop on the internet is probably not to be found) but the whole "2 men with two identities each fighting for the affections of one woman (sort of)" bit was too cool, even if never really expounded upon directly in the film.
Also agreed, Spidey is rarely the purely powerful hero vs. his villains. Sure, he has spidey strength and all, but he gets to fight Hulk, Rhino, Sandman, Doc Ock, Goblin, sometimes the entire Fantastic Four, that lizard guy, etc...and he is almost always the underdog and that is why we love him. Weaker villains usually have something else up their sleeves like Vulture (now removed from the movie continuum, thank you Mr. Goblin), Electro (still a possibility since Oscorp can't help but muck around with power and humanity) and Punisher.
Wow, didn't realize there was a fake Aunt May. Did they kill the original off? Or was this one of those lame plotlines that people just begin to forget about and act like it never happened?
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Yeah, it was one of the lame plotlines. It was part of the recovery from the clone plotline, specifically--lame in itself but sadly necessary. The real May turned out to have been kidnapped by Osborn, not too long after the fake died of a weak heart.
Posts: 1114 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Re: Spider-Man unmasked. It's happened in the original canon, it's just more noticeable here because as far as Peter's development goes, about 10 years of the comic were squashed into two movies.
I did start laughing in the emotional train scene when the New Yorkers are looking fondly down on their stricken hero. I kept waiting for his landlord to stick his head in. "Rent? Rent?"
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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As far s Villins in 3 go 2 set up for atleast three more Goblin 2/Harry Osborne, Venom(brought back from space by John Jameson), and The Lizard(Dr. Connors) Other then the few conplaints about spidys wise crack not being as big as they should be, I mean who doesn't love seeing the Goblin being called Snacky, I loved it at least as good as the first.
Posts: 397 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I really really really loved this movie. Really.
And I so did not notice Dr. Connors. Also, I doubt it will be in another movie, but John Jameson means that there's a potential for Wolfman action.
Also, scene I mentioned in the other thread, Hal Sparks was the guy who got in the elevator with Spidey and complimented him on his Spidey costume. The idea of New York always amuses me. A place where stuff like that wouldn't make you bat an eyelash.
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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It's only just out here in Australia. Saw it today, unfortunately it's also school holidays here, so there's lots of schoolkids floating around. A bunch of 15-year old girls were in the cinema laughing loudly at the slightest hint of emotion.
I threw my gatorade bottle at them halfway through the movie.
Didn't make another sound. I highly recommend it.
Posts: 2245 | Registered: Nov 1998
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I agree. Spider-Man takes off his mask too often. The way this is explained in the comics is usually his Spider-Sense telling him when someone is watching. So therefore he can tell just standing there whether he's alone on a rooftop, or someone's got a spy satellite or binoculars on him.
I don't think they play up the -sense enough, which is really what enables Spider-Man to go toe-to-toe with so many people. His incredible agility and speed aren't just due to his super-powers including super-speed and -agility, but because of his spider-sense. It's like in Star Wars when they talk about 'Jedi reflexes'.
As for Spider-Man being the underdog, in Amazing they recently told of how that was one of the reasons why Peter Parker was chosen for the radioactive spider bite. This doesn't apply to the film, of course, but it's said that *because* Parker spent most of his life prior to the bite getting his butt kicked, always outnumbered by stronger enemies, that he would never give up once he had the ability to fight back, even against stronger enemies.
I liked the inclusion of web-balls, or at least small web-bursts used as projectiles and not exactly web-lines.
I liked the scene with the people helping the hero, even though I think it was a bit overdone. But at the time, I was feelin' it:)
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote: You can't throw a gatorade bottle at a baby, nor at the mother holding it.
...and this is why going to the midnight movie is the only way to see it in the theaters to me any more. Though we did have some kids that giggled nervously when things got emotional (youngin's not ready for it yet, I guess). They tittered a bit when MJ and Petey got doe-eyed, but that was okay. It was during the heavier emotional scenes with Aunt May (especially the confession) that the teens got uncomfortable (and had to giggle). Not really annoying. The large midnight audience (sold out) makes up for it by lots of applause, laughter, cheering and no cell phones, babies, light pens and what not. If you spend the time to stay up until 3 AM to see a movie, you are wanting the money's worth and it worked.
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Did anyone lese notice that when the effects are used as part of the movie, and not as "look how cool we are," that they add to the movie instead of detract? The scene where Spidey is blocking debris being thrown by Doc Ock was amazing, and there was no sense that we've left a cut scene and entered a "fight scene."
Plus, the snatching people out of the air and webbing them in place while going at full speed was incredible!
Dagonee fil, I had to be up at 6 today - no midnight show for me!
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I was pleasantly surprised at the crowd-reaction, actually. I showed up at 10:30 at the movie theater, foolishly thinking it'd be like the FIRST spider-man. Largely uncrowded.
First thing I saw was a dozen, yes a DOZEN school busses parked in front.
But they were quiet, and it was a great way to go about it, since the teachers and chaperones were there to keep what otherwise probably would've been very unruly kids quiet.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Speaking of those webs, they play a couple of the common comic tricks there, too. Spidey sends out a web, and suddenly it splits into a spider-web formation, just from a single line and at a great distance, too.
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I think they did Spidey sense enough for the movie. In the comic, especially the Lee years, they used it too much, I think (though I would love to have seen the 'half-Pete/half-Spidey mask' effect when his sense goes off out of costume! ). I think you just have to assume that it is always going and not obvious. They make it obvious when it really needs to be with the diner/car scene being the most obvious (and, even though they showed it in the previews, it still really worked well). They don't make it obvious but you know it is working when Spidey ducks in time to avoid a bridge or at times avoids a punch or two (though with 6 limbs coming at you, even spidey sense makes it hard).
I think the mask thing was okay, too. Again, this is a movie, not a comic book. I think there is still a desire to connect to the character of Spider Man and that is more difficult when you only see Spidey being Spidey and Petey being Petey but never the twain meet. I think that was a complaint in the last movie...we never SEE Peter much as Spidey...just a CGI costume jumping around. It works to have more actor exposure. It was also more symbolic for the story, too...he was leading a double life at the start of the movie (triple, even). By the end of the film, they are successfully rolled into one (Petey AND Spidey love MJ and she loves both as well). Works for me.
I agree...the train scene in retrospect was sappy as all get out, but I also must say I was suckered in the whole time. If the whole movie was THAT sappy it wouldn't have worked, but a nice bit of it worked just fine.
quote: fil, I had to be up at 6 today - no midnight show for me!
Poseur! I had to get up, too (yesterday for me, actually). I was surprised I did so well the day after with only 3 hours sleep. Maybe it was the pent up energy used to keep me from spoiling the movie for my wife, even though I just had to tell her about it! I got out "It was cool, and..." before her glare had MY Spidey sense tingling...trouble brewing, time to get out of Gotham.
Did anyone else love the ending? "Go get 'em, Tiger." He's running out on her again, but this time she knows why and that makes all the difference. Plus, he whoops while web-swinging, which we haven't heard all movie.
quote: Did anyone else love the ending? "Go get 'em, Tiger."
Yes! Great ending. Great counter to the first movie's more "down" ending. Yes, it had the hopeful "I'm Spiderman" bit, but also ended in a cemetary with him walking away from MJ. This opposite was great.
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I loved that, too...also how they handled the almost-obligatory 'tiger' mention from MJ. The classic quote would have been, by now, too tricky to handle. And it would've made MJ look pretty bad, too. (Then again, in the regular universe, MJ wasn't an awesome person when she first showed up anyway).
And you know, come to think of it, they make MJ look pretty bad again in her handling of the wedding, as is mentioned elsewhere. I guess the filmakers just didn't find a spot to include her smoothing things over as best she could, and went with the quick and dramatic note.
How Jonah handles Parker dating the woman who jilted his son might be interesting Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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I'm in the middle of moving, so I'm not going to be able to see this one until Saturday.
How do they illustrate the spider sense in action? Does the Maguire just look like he's hearing something, and then duck at the appropriate moment, or do they have little black worms coming out of his head, or what?
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I fell in love with the movie at the opening credits. I was utterly enchanted by the way they blended scenes from the previous film with comic-book style art. I knew then that this was going to be an AWESOME film. And then nothing in the movie disappointed me after that.
One great scene was when Doc Ock was carrying off MJ. I recognized comic-book frames in that scene, but they were seamlessly part of the continuous live action. How did they DO that? It was beautiful.
Also, I had a really hilarious time because the actor playing Doc Ock looks just like my brother-in-law. Same face, same expressions and mannerisms. My husband agreed. So it was very surreal watching all Doc Ock's scenes.
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Have you seen Alfred Molina in other things? I'm really impressed by his acting, generally. He did a great job as Diego Rivera in Frida.
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I also loved how geeky Tobey Maguire can look. When Spidey quit, and Peter went back to school, you couldn't see the hotness. Which is how people are in real life. They dress weird, they fall down, they wear stupid smiles. And then they get naked, with sincerity in their eyes, and a striving to make good happen in this world, and they are beautiful. Tobey Maguire is not "hot" in a Tom Cruise or Johnny Depp fashion. He is the most "real" of the actors I've seen, which is what makes me fall in love with him and his work.
I did think that the beginning was almost too painful. I needed Peter Parker to have something good in his life.
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Actually, Ryuko, I read somewhere that there was the possibility for John Jameson as the Man-Wolf in the next movie. So don't freak out just yet.
Dag, I had thought I heard him whooping several times, including once or twice when there was no reason for it except the thrill of doing it.
Maybe it's just me, but a few times the emotional dialogue semed kind of strained. I could just be overly sensitive--my "sappy-sense" kicks in too easily.
Posts: 1114 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:I read somewhere that there was the possibility for John Jameson as the Man-Wolf in the next movie.
Gads, I hope not. Who needs a werewolf (there wolf) in a superhero movie...we have had two this year and that is enough. I still vote for the space alien Venom, probably the more popular villain with the younger crowd. I was never into Venom, though. The "alien" take would work but the "science gone bad" version in the Bendis Ultimate Spidey would fit better with the movies.
I also enjoyed the Alex Ross painted comic recap of the first movie in the credits. I assume those will be available soon, if they aren't already (maybe in the comic adaptation of the movie...which is odd, since the movie is an adaptation of the comic...mind...seizing up...).
So, if they do Man Wolk (ugh) maybe young Harry will go with a new Oscorp failed experiment and HE will become the Venom character? Actually, I think that might be the way it happened in the Ultimate Line of Spidey, come to think of it.
I didn't read much Spidey as a young laddie but was that scene on the doctor's table (where Ock...or his arms...killed all the doctors) done in the old canon? I know it is a part of the new canon as they did it in an Ultimate version of the story (when he "teamed up" with other villains).
Who is Sparks? The friend I went with knew the guy in the elevator as well. Never hoid of him. Loved the scene, though. I liked that Raimi took his time to let the camera go a little bit longer to get the sense of discomfort. Same with the broom closet scene at the beginning. Very funny.
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You may be right, Mabus, but any prior whooping went unnoticed by me. Either way, the sheer joy in his sound and movement, just because MJ knows and approves of his being Spidey, was a great way to end.
Got to second the opening credits - they sucked me in immediately, and I liked that there was no "previously on Spider-Man" type of flashback.
The emotional dialog was strained somewhat for me, but mostly on recollection, not in the moment. The editing was excellent, and, like all good editing, unnoticable on first viewing. Raimi's always used longer continuous shots than most, and he's learned to handle it with deftness now.
By the way, did anyone notice how Peter told his Aunt about Uncle Ben's death. No hint of Spidey around, just raw emotion. That scene could have been in a non-fantasty movie with no changes and been just as powerful.
Amazing.
Oh, I forgot - the Evil Dead II tribute was great. The people in the know loved it, the people who didn't weren't distracted by it because it totally fit the chaos of the scene. Loved Raindrops Keep Falling on my Head, too.
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Darnit, Jenny, you beat me to it I was going to say that the credits were awesome, and very practical as well. Virtually everyone who's seeing the second one has seen the first one, so you get a "Previously...on Spider-Man!" effect without saying it. And the artwork was awesome.
And you know, Peter was getting some appreciative looks even as mild-mannered Pete and not Spider-Man.
Something I caught the second time seeing it was how Otto (pre-transformation) is talking to Pete about how holding something complicated like love inside can make you sick. Heh.
Edit: Oh! And the scene where Peter walks away from the two guys beating up the littler guy...man. You won't see many films where the hero (much less a superhero movie) does something like THAT. It's one thing to turn away from sirens, quite another to turn away from someone in your face calling for help.
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They really know how to show a flawed character without making you despise him - it's becoming a lost art. When he saves the kid without his powers, and then learns someone else died that he probably could have saved had he still had the powers - wow. The look on his face their was enough to convince me Toby was right for the part.
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Just saw the movie this morning, and to echo - this is a great movie.
It's got it's problems. I was groaning throughout the entire driveway monologue. I could almost feel the grain in the Great Power/Great Responsibility stick against my forehead. It could have been a little less heavyhanded.
But that's a minor gripe. The movie kicks buttock.
I knew there was going to be an Evil Dead tribute in an Ock scene near the beginning, but I was surprised to see how much was actually in there. I was expecting a shot or two, and the chainsaw - what I got was several shots that were cut directly from Evil Dead, down to the blocking, the facial expressions, the heavy breathing, and the flying camera! It was nearly a full minute long!
I was also pleased to see that they approached the identity question at the end of this movie instead of trying to do it in the 3rd. That leaves the 3rd movie a lot more room to do stuff, instead of having to swing the wide bat of exposition near the beginning.
Posts: 753 | Registered: Mar 2001
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Hal Sparks is a B-list actor/comedian/musician/martial artist, who I think is pretty keen. He was an interim guy in Talk Soup for a while, and he is now one of the major stars of Queer as Folk. He also is a permanent fixture on I Love the 70's/80's/90's. Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Huh. It was good, but it's not the wildly superior sequel that X-Men II was.
There were a ton of flaws, jesus christ. Since when do are the arms pseudo-AI, let alone capable of taking over Ock's mind? And as someone else mentioned, Parker's taking off his mask disturbingly often -- if he flashes any more people, he needs to be dragged into court.
Obscenely corny train scene. I loved the stopping it and the catching him, but the unconscious rock star bit was disappointing as hell.
I agree, no depth to MJ beyond oh-I-want-him-but-he's-the-"correct"-choice bit.
Annoying Green Goblin routine, too. Why would the kid miraculously discover daddy's playpen, even if discovering Pete's Spider-Man did crack his nut?
Hmm. I'm getting tired of the villain always being evil, too -- with Ock they tried to make it good-man-under-bad-influence, but christ, he went mercenary to get material so he could run an experiment doomed to destroy half the city, and he's willing to kill whomever he needs to (or can) to get it. Stupid as hell. If he really was that ruthless, why not torture the Osborne kid to get the material out of him in the first place?
Oh yeah, my biggest complaint. What the deuce is up with Spider-Man losing his powers because of lack of confidence? They couldn't think up anything better? Mutation would at least be interesting, and workable -- I'm still hoping they go back on their word in the third pic and find out it IS an ongoing mutation.
Heh, that said, I liked it. X-Men 0wn0rz Spider-Man, but still, enjoyable.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Am I the only person who thought the dialog was terrible?
The bit with Harry saying "You killed my father" had me saying "No! I am your father!" Aaron chimed in with "I am Harry Osborn. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
I can't remember another specific, but I wasn't impressed at all. Most of the dialog just seemed to go on forever without doing anything useful. That said, I loved the bit where Peter and Aunt Mae are talking in the driveway. Rosemary Harris is probably the best actress in the movie.
Also, what was Sam Raimi thinking with all the close ups of the screaming people? I was annoyed with that about the second time they did it.
And the fusion. Let's ignore the rest of the science and skip to the end. In order to stop fusion, they drop it in the river, which is 2/3 hydrogen?
Over all, 2 1/2 stars. It was ok. I'll probably buy the DVD, but it only ranks as decent.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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Obviously the idea was to cool it off--fusion requires very high temperatures--but would water do enough to stop it? Any physics people know how to work that out? How much of a reduction in temperature would it take to cool an ongoing fusion reaction until it quit?
(And would water dissociate into hydrogen and oxygen, with the former available for fusion?)
Posts: 1114 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Wow, Eddie, we usually disagree, but on politics and how ugly you are, not on awesome movies like this! (And hey, that was playful banter. So no one be genuinely offended, OK?)
There *are* comics in which Ock's arms do have AI on their own. Of course, just because they have some AI doesn't make them human-level intelligence. But having them directly hardwired into Otto's brain would lessen the strength of 'will' they needed to overcome Doc's own mind.
No depth to MJ? Were you dead-set to find flaws before you even saw it? I agree, they handled her badly at some points-she did some apparent (even though I think it took place over many months) boyfriend hopping in the first one, and the note-at-the-altar bit was bad-but no depth? I thought she pulled off the desperately torn in love emotion really well. I mean, I empathized with her. She was so frustrated ALL THE TIME. She's got the man o' her dreams, and everytime she's gabbing with him, she's getting mixed signals from hell.
He didn't 'miraculously' discover (one of) the Green Goblin's safehouses. He spent much of his time in the house when Norman was up to his fun and games, and then he gets a psychological visit from dear old dad. When you're playing headgames like that, it's no stretch at all to think that his subconcious might have led him to throw the dagger at the mirror that he had a feeling something was off about.
Yeah, Doc Ock went mercenary, but he didn't think the experiment was doomed to failure. Didn't you listen to his monologue with the arms? Something like, "I couldn't have miscalculated! It was working, wasn't it?" (Which I also thought was well-done. The bafflement, the dismay, seemed dead-on)
And why torture Osborne to get the tritium at all? Osborn offered him something he was interested in doing anyway. "Bring me Spider-Man so I can kill him". Well, Ock *already* didn't like Spider-Man. 'Do this little chore you'd enjoy and I'll give you what you very much want' seems like a good trade to me.
I will say I agree with the loss-of-powers bit. I think they should've mixed that up with the flu, or something, as has been done in the comics numerous times. Just show him in the cold rain once as Spidey, never getting enough sleep, add in some serious emotional weariness, and there you go.
Both X-Men films were good, but they lacked the depth of character and emotion in both Spider-Man 1 & 2, I think. Partially because there are a BUNCH of characters in X-Men, whereas there are no more than two or three major ones at any given shot in Spider-Man. Also because several of the X-Men are pretty boring. But mostly, I think, because we don't get to seem them very vulnerable. The X-Men are X-Men, and they love other X-Men, and fight other X-Men and mutants. Whereas in Spider-Man, Peter Parker is someone we can empathize with (from what we've seen in the films).
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Edit: Oh, and as for science...isn't it pretty much accepted that we're looking the other way when it comes to higher science in a film where a genetically-enhanced spider-bite doesn't kill or injure, but inmbues the victim with all sorts of power? Where a fusion-reaction is contained with some metal arms? Where fusion is possible outside a nuclear weapon AT ALL?
The loss of powers worked for me. Of course, I see depression as being real as any virus. It wasn't a loss of "faith", it was the natural result of being kicked when you are down repeatedly.
Alfred Molina is such a stud.
I thought it was so funny when MJ tries kissing John upside down. Like "maybe the only reason I liked that kiss is because it was upside down." Maybe she's just not a deep person.
The look after Jameson tells his wife to call the caterer is priceless.
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Oh look, she ran away from her wedding. How cute.![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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). I think you just have to assume that it is always going and not obvious. They make it obvious when it really needs to be with the diner/car scene being the most obvious (and, even though they showed it in the previews, it still really worked well). They don't make it obvious but you know it is working when Spidey ducks in time to avoid a bridge or at times avoids a punch or two (though with 6 limbs coming at you, even spidey sense makes it hard).![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I had to get up, too (yesterday for me, actually). I was surprised I did so well the day after with only 3 hours sleep. Maybe it was the pent up energy used to keep me from spoiling the movie for my wife, even though I just had to tell her about it! I got out "It was cool, and..." before her glare had MY Spidey sense tingling...trouble brewing, time to get out of Gotham.![[Mad]](mad.gif)
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