posted
My daughter had her 18-month check-up last week, and she's only 22 pounds. It doesn't really concern me, because we are all very thin in my family. (Son: 3 years old and 32 pounds; Jes: 22 years old, 6'4" and about 170 pounds; Me: 22 years old, 5'10" and about 125 since having kids.) Apparently it concerned the doctor though, and we have talked about it before. She asked me to describe a normal day of eating for Jillian. I said, "2 pieces of peanut butter toast (wheat), lots of milk, a slice of ham, some cheese cubes, a couple of baby carrots, goldfish crackers or triscuits, some juice, maybe some banana..." and so on. As you can see, I try to hit all the food groups.
But the doctor said something like (there's a very slight language barrier), "You're giving her too much of the good stuff and she has to use it for her energy. You can't do low-carb for babies." (Duh, I know that.) "She needs more carbohydrates."
"Oh," I say. "I can do that. So more bread and pasta and stuff?"
She says this to me: "She needs more cookies and ice cream and stuff. And potato chips."
Ummmmmmm, okay. That sounds totally whacked to me.
So, I said again: "So, I should give her more pasta?"
She said pasta was okay but insisted repeatedly that she needed junk food. She pointed to herself and said "It works for me! Just look at me! Hahahaha!"
Now, I have two problems with this:
1. How did babies survive in the era before crap food?
2. Shouldn't we be more concerned about a lifestyle of healthy eating? I mean, she's not starving to death. If she was seriously malnourished I'd be cramming in cookies, assuming that's all I had.
Does it make sense to start giving your kid this junk food at such an early age? I'm not a saint when it comes to feeding the kids (I've been known to make waffles for dinner), but that sounds really dumb. Shouldn't pasta or a tortilla do the trick?
This is the same doctor that put my child in a cool water bath when he had a fever of 103. Doesn't that seem rash?
I'm thinking of getting a new pediatrician.
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My son was very very small for his age when he was younger. The dr. NEVER suggested giving him junk food.
Posts: 2578 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I was 6lbs 12 oz and I was born on 6/12!! I don't have any medical stuff to share thoguh, sorry Posts: 1401 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
I have heard that children need more fat then adults to grow properly. I wouldnt suggest junk, but maybe a cookie now and then wouldn't hurt.
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posted
I'm liking the "get a new pediatrician" idea.
I'm not going to say that's too early for any junk food, but it certainly doesn't sound like you're starving the kid, and especially since the family is all skinny... just seems like really bad advice. So many people having problems with their weight when they get older, I just can't see telling a mom to get a kid started on bad habits to bulk up.
Out of curiousity, with the "worked for me comment..." is the doctor in decent shape? Or overweight and was making a joke about it?
Edit: Peanut butter. Ham. Cheese cubes. There's plenty of fat in there for the purposes of normal development. Even more if it's not skim milk, which at that age it's probably not.
posted
Well, they get fat. I'm not a total health freak. On any given day my kids get at least *some* junky thing, generally as a treat or snack. Some tortilla chips or fritos, or, like, a fruit bar. Or, um, some cinnamon toast.
ElJay: She's a bit overweight. Overweight in an "I would never have guessed you have to wear plus sizes, but you know how screwed up the sizing system is" way.
posted
I don't have children, but I've always heard that if a baby younger than three months has a temperature of over 100 degrees F or a baby between three and six months old has a temperature over 101 degrees F or a baby older than six months has a temperature that reaches 103 degrees F, one should call a doctor right away... (or if the fever lasts awhile, or if the child/baby is unresponsive and feverish, etc).
Baths, from what I understand, are used to sometimes bring fevers down in small children instead of medication because of dosage problems/not likeing the idea of giving medications to a baby...
But the junk food comment puzzles me a lot Posts: 944 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
See, the deal with the temp thing is that there are plenty of things you can try instead. Like ibuprofen or acetaminophen. Or a cool cloth in the warm areas to release heat. (Armpits, head, groin, etc.) Cool baths are generally for emergencies, and 103 is not the brain-boiling point unless it stays there a while, I think. And he wasn't an infant exactly, he was almost two. That cool water bath thing has him scarred for life on doctors. He can't go without screaming since that happened.
edit: I mean, if a mom is against medicine then that might be okay, but I'm not. Only unnecessary antibiotics. : D
posted
The weight thing is silly. Some kids just don't gain a lot of weight. My girls are 6 and weigh around 40 pounds each. *shrug*
As far is the cold bath thing, that is a legitimate way to bring down a fever. I have always tended toward dangerously high fevers, on the occasions when I get fevers, and I have had doctors advise that both when I was a toddler and when I was in my twenties.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I think I'd be running for cover from a doctor who's telling me to give my toddler junk food to fatten her up.
My kids were both small, but they were proportionally so. 10-15% on the height scale, 10-15 on the weight scale, etc. My ped told me that as long as the numbers were consistent, it was not a concern. If a child is at 50% on height and 10% on weight, however, THAT kid needs to put on some weight - but Twinkies and Oreos isn't the way to do it anyhow. Similarly, if a kid is at 50% weight and 10% height, that kid needs to be watched closely and diet altered to re-stabilize. At those ages, you wouldn't put him on a weight-loss diet, but you would increase the healthy stuff and decrease the junk if possible.
posted
I've always thought -cold- water could put a person in shock if they had a high fever... I thought "room temperature" was what one was supposed to use Posts: 944 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Well, Jillian is pretty tall. I agree that she needs to put on weight, but I ain't doing it with cookies.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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My daughter was small for her age too (still is). I had a similar thing happen when she was around two. A doctor told me to feed her more cheeses and junk to "fatten her up." I took her in a few months later and talked to a different doctor at the practice. She immediately disagreed. Her observation was that I was small (very true--I am quite small) and that it was genetics not lack of food that made Gina small.
As long as your daughter isn't lethargic or anemic, I can't understand why she'd need to fatten up. I think some people expect all babies to be fat. That doctor should know better.
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posted
trans fats are now recommended against by the FDA, so chips and bought cookies should not be recommended IMHO by a competent doctor. But maybe Frito Lay or Nabisco sent her on a cruise and encouraged her to prescribe their products for her patients.
Also, she probably sees a lot of fat kids all day long and was surprised by yours. But the last time I saw them, they were not emaciated. Smallish, yes, but that's to be expected looking at you.
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posted
Let me go on the record of saying that I have voluntarily used room temp. water on my son when he had a very high fever for a while and I could get it down with meds. First, I ran a few inches of water that was a little cooler than my body temperature. Then I stripped down (seven months pregnant) and sat in the tub, held him in my lap, and sponged him with the water on his head first. Then I gently sponged the rest of his body. That's the way I was taught and that worked well. Cooling the head first should prevent the explosion of the brain. But this woman just sort of dumped my son in a cold sink. It was terrible. I was holding his hand and singing "Jesus Loves Me" and sobbing while he screamed. It was not very professional and it wasn't even a huge emergency.
Pooka: Yeah. Most babies are alot bigger than mine here in Tucson.
posted
Ick! This doctor is taking care of your KIDS. Don't mess around, ya know? She's a Q-U-A-C-K!
There are healthy ways to gain weight.. I know this.. I don't need to know what they are because I need to LOSE weight... but I know it's not healthy to eat junk food.
*sigh* I'd be wondering where she got her license.
posted
If you are going to try to fatten her up, I vote for milkshakes. Make 'em with frozen strawberries... fiber, sugar, plenty of carbs, protein, calcium, fat... and delicious!
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Not true about the fever thing...I missed that at first...sorry.
I was a sick baby, nad lamost died more than once due to fevers. 103 is high for a baby, and a cool bath is just right. NOT cold, you are right about that, it causes more harm than good a lot of the time....unless the temp is over 105, in which case you use ICE, believe it ir not.
Because their brain is about to boil. In 4 min or less, I think...
I was over 106 3 times ad a baby...and once while I was in the Army I was hospitalized with a 107......packed in ice in the bed...they didn't even wait to get me into the tub!
Lukewarm water is best, but cool water is good too, and that was the right thing to do...as long as you took the kid to the doctor/emergency room as soon as the fever dropped...
posted
No, I didn't go to the ER, but only because I already knew what was wrong with him and he was being treated at home. We'd been the hospital/doctor's office/lab about ten times already. That was pretty much the worst time ever. Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Sounds like the cold water bath was traumatic but probably medically reasonable.
But teaching kids to eat junk food? YEESH! My kids are all skinny (although very much on the charts), but my pediatricians have NEVER recommended anything like that. (Then again, my kids have my genes, and when puberty hits "skinny" will likely be a fond memory.)
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Well, if that is the worse that is a good thing.
I was born early, a mere 5 lbs 6 oz. I had a lot of problens with unexplained fevers, and my dad actually scarred my leg by accident once throwing ne in the tub. The last person who had been in the tub was an adult, and had taken a hot bath, so when he threw the valve open to put cold water over me he scalded me really bad.
Third degree bad.
But when your baby has a 106...and climbing....you do what you can.
Once, the police took my mom to the hospital in a police car, sirens wailing and lights flashing, and when they got there I wasn't breathing. They wouldn't let my mom in, but a cop went back there, and came out literally dancing...yelling "He's OK, He is going to live, and be OK!" at the top of his lungs.
My mom said all the police officers started hugging her, and each other....they had been sure that I was gone. They saw all sorts of things gone bad, and thought I had alreaady died before I got to the hospital...
Fevers aren't anything to mess around with, and the Doc was right on that count. Cool water, and asap....
In the following, with due deference to Kwea, who I am so glad is still with us today ( ! ), and who recommends exactly what many of my colleagues still do recommend, I'm going to be citing the evidence-based recommendations from the AAP.
Regarding fever: fever from an infection alone will not in itself harm the child, not even at 107 degrees Farenheit. I'll quote a review article out of Johns Hopkins below, and it comes with an excellent bibliography. We treat fevers from infection because doing so makes the child more comfortable and less likely to refuse to drink liquids (thus less likely to become dehyrated, which is a real concern). Fever is a sign that something may be going on which may need to be treated, but that is not the same as the fever itself needing to be treated.
Unfortunately, there is a great deal of misinformation floating about amongst healthcare professionals as well as non-professionals. It is unavoidable.
quote:Results: [Note: All of the following are incorrect beliefs or unrecommended behaviors, except for proper sponging. Sponging should be done with lukewarm water, as it is the evaporation of surface water that cools, and inducing shivering will actually act to raise the core body temperature.]
A total of 340 caregivers were interviewed. Fifty-six percent of caregivers were very worried about the potential harm of fever in their children, 44% considered a temperature of 38.9°C (102°F) to be a "high" fever, and 7% thought that a temperature could rise to 43.4°C (110°F) if left untreated. Ninety-one percent of caregivers believed that a fever could cause harmful effects; 21% listed brain damage, and 14% listed death. Strikingly, 52% of caregivers said that they would check their child's temperature 1 hour when their child had a fever, 25% gave antipyretics for temperatures less than 37.8°C (less than 100°F), and 85% would awaken their child to give antipyretics. Fourteen percent of caregivers gave acetaminophen, and 44% gave ibuprofen at too frequent dosing intervals. Of the 73% of caregivers who said that they sponged their child to treat a fever, 24% sponged at temperatures [of] 37.8°C (100°F); 18% used alcohol. ... The present study is a descriptive trend analysis of current caregiver beliefs about fever in comparison to the findings of Schmitt in 1980. ... We found that parents and other caregivers continue to manifest signs of fever phobia 20 years after Schmitt first described this entity. This is not surprising when one considers the amount of emphasis placed on fever when children are being evaluated for an illness. When obtaining a history about a child's illness, pediatric health care providers often are quick to ask about temperature. The first vital sign obtained in most triage areas is temperature. Discharge instructions to parents after an acute visit to a physician often recommend calling or returning to the site of care if the child's temperature goes beyond a certain value or if a fever persists. ... By placing emphasis on knowing a child's temperature and concurrently giving inadequate information about fever, one may heighten anxiety and perpetuate fever phobia. ... In addition to the beneficial effect that fever has on the immune system, it is important to note that the febrile response is a homeostatic process. Many caregivers are unaware of this process and believe that temperatures will continue to rise to potentially lethal levels if left untreated. Caregivers need to know that in the absence of hyperthermic insults, such as dehydration and closed, hot automobiles, and in neurologically normal children, the body does not allow fever to rise out of control to potentially lethal levels. (9,10) Therefore, in the absence of hyperthermic insults, it is exceedingly rare for a child's temperature to exceed 41.7°C (107°F).9 Yet we found that 7% of caregivers thought that a temperature could rise to 43.3°C (110°F) or above if left untreated compared with 16% in Schmitt's study. Despite the current lower percentage, it still is striking that 1 in 15 caregivers believed that a child's temperature could rise to potentially lethal levels in response to infection. The caregivers who hold this belief will continue to treat fever as a life-threatening illness.
Many caregivers in our study believed that fever could have life-threatening or lethal effects. Twenty-one percent of caregivers in the present study listed brain damage as the number 1 harmful effect of fever and 14% listed death. This finding may not be surprising when one considers that many of these beliefs also may be shared by pediatric health care providers. May and Bauchner (8) found that 65% of pediatricians who responded to a questionnaire believed that an elevated body temperature in and of itself could become dangerous to a child. Sixty percent of these physicians cited a temperature of 40°C (104°F) or above as significant. When asked about the most serious complication of fever, 21% listed brain damage and 26% listed death. Pediatricians and caregivers alike may have concerns about fever and its potential to cause harm in children.
Concern about fever and its potential harmful effects may lead to parental behaviors such as excessive monitoring and treatment. More than half of those interviewed in our study said that they would check a temperature every hour or less when their child had a fever, and 85% of caregivers said that they would awaken their child to give antipyretics during a febrile illness. These behaviors may be considered excessive and intrusive to children during the time that they are recovering from their illness. We found that 73% of caregivers used sponging as a fever-reducing technique; however, two thirds performed the technique incorrectly with alcohol, cool water, or a cool rag. Compared with 20 years ago, more caregivers initiated sponging for normal temperatures (37.8°C [100°F]). One study showed that sponging was ineffective and may cause discomfort to the child even if an antipyretic is given first.(13) Cool water can cause significant shivering as a result of an increased temperature setpoint, making the child extremely uncomfortable. (3) Alcohol has the potential to cause dehydration and hypoglycemia, particularly in young children, and should not be used. (3) ... [Conclusion:] Fever phobia persists. Compared with 20 years ago, more caregivers listed seizure and fewer listed brain damage as potential harms of fever. Caregivers today checked their child's temperature more often during a febrile illness, woke their children more often to give antipyretics, gave these medicines at too frequent dosing intervals, and gave antipyretics or initiated sponging more frequently for possible normal temperatures. Caregivers who stated that they were very worried about fever were more likely in the past to have had a child who was evaluated for a fever, to have had blood work performed on their child during a febrile illness, and to have perceived their doctors to be very worried about fever. Caregivers continue to list doctors and nurses as their primary resource for fever information. Therefore, pediatric health care providers have a unique opportunity to make an impact on parental understanding of fever and its role in illness. Educational interventions are needed to dispel caregiver misconceptions about fever and to promote the appropriate antipyretic treatment of the febrile child. Future studies are needed to evaluate the long-term effectiveness of such interventions and to identify the types of medical care practices that foster fever phobia.[bold is added]
You have to do what you think is best for your child. But I would say that you were appropriate not to be concerned about the fever of 103 degrees F as dangerous in itself (although the cause might need to be treated, and that would depend on other factors).
If you sponge, do it with lukewarm water and don't leave cold cloths stretched over the child since that would limit evaporation. Kids with prior neurological damage, or with head trauma, or who are trapped in a very hot environment ("cooking" in a car with the windows up) may not be able to regulate their body's temperature and so may not be able to prevent damage. This is not true for infection-related fevers in otherwise normal persons.
A child in an emergency department with a fever will (in my experience) routinely be held until we document a decrease in fever. This reflects a desire to allay parental fears and to document a figure that may be more relevant to medicolegal concerns, apart from actual benefit or risk to the patient.
Additionally, children in the ICU (especially after head trauma) may be put in an ice-bath or other extreme measures to control fever. Hopefully this reflects other concerns rather than a desire to control fever from infection just for the sake of making the numbers better. For example, fever is often accompanied by tachycardia (fast heart rate), and although it will not harm the patient, it may make cardiorepiratory monitoring for other reasons more difficult to assess. Also, we may give drugs in the ICU that have tachycardia as a side effect, and this may be a consideration in certain cases, too.
Good luck! Hope this helps.
[ September 15, 2004, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
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posted
My boy at 9 months or so was in the 5th percentile in weight the pedeatrician just looked at both me and Marlozahn and didn't worry too much about it because of how skinny we both our. I say just keep feeding her nutritious stuff with occasional junk food.
Posts: 1417 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
According to the most recent CDC growth chart (PDF), being 22 lbs at 18 months puts her in the middle of the 10-25th percentile range for weight. That isn't really an area of concern in itself.
Of course, the main thing in interpreting growth charts is the trend over time and to do it in the context of the whole history and physical, but still, it isn't like she's below the 5th percentile or off the chart.
I'd agree with ElJay, Kwea, and unicornwhisperer. Use whole milk, continue with the foods you are giving, encourage fruits (not so much fruit juices, but whole fruits in shakes are fine). I'll see if I can dig up the formal AAP recommendations for you.
That's a puzzler. Hmmm. This is rude even to ask, but is she a pediatrician pediatrician, or a family medicine doctor (or other GP that sees adults, too)? Did you tell her you thought the recommendations didn't make sense? (I know this can be very hard to do.)
[ September 15, 2004, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I would suggest consulting with a nutritionist - if you are in a certain income bracket and eligible for WIC (Women Infants and Children), you should have access to one for free. If you are not income-eligible, you can still call and find out if they can recommend someone. I know when my kids were on WIC, I had to talk to someone periodically about what they were eating.
Then, do a little research on some of the major points regarding your kids to see what is currently recommended (like fevers and such) - and interview pediatricians to see who is closest to what you are looking for.
Posts: 2034 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
We too are in discussions with out doctor about the eating habits of our 13 month daughter. She still refuses almost all solid food, doesn't take formula or expressed milk from the bottle very easily, but feeds from the breast no problem. There is no problem with her weight, but she is quite short.
The therapist that we were given for consultation is primarily trained as a speech therapist. That isn't out of the ordinary at all. However, her recommendations are similar to those of PSIs pediatrician in this way: Based our answers about Amanda's eating habits she decided that Amanda needed strong flavored foods. On her list of examples were potato chips, dill pickle juice, and even Slim Jims.
Anyway, my story doesn't have same shock value as PSIs. I find it hard to believe that her pediatrician recommended junk food for its nutritional value!
Anyone have advice from their childrearing or profession on getting Amanda to eat more solid foods?
Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
My nephews are 9 and 10 and weigh roughly 120 pounds each.
Mind you, they play soccer and baseball and their dad dishes out push-ups as punishment, so that mass is mostly muscle. At the moment, they can give me a run for my money in mid-wrestle.
Yet their doctor put them on a diet-food planning session on the weekends.
posted
Super-K and Litebrite both would rather eat foods with a stronger taste than bland foods-- Litebrite (18 months old), for example, would eat chili at every meal if she had the chance. Neither was a big fan of rice cereal, but they both love green beans. They are not big potato fans, unless said potato has butter and ranch on it.
Junebug really only will voluntarily eat hot dogs and peanut-butter and jelly. And pizza occasionally. One day, she'll appreciate all the vegetables I make her eat.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Ryan's 1st year checkup is Friday, so I'll ask about that. I don't think I've ever heard anybody suggest that babies should be given junk food as anything other than an occasional snack.
Does she by chance have an oven in her office? When she laughed at herself, was it a hearty chuckle or more of an evil cackle? Does she have a long, pointy nose with a hairy wart at the end?
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Well, I'm certainly glad to read what Sara said about fevers, because in the posts before that, I was beginning to feel like a bad mother. Because when I grew up, my grandma (who I turned to for any and all advice) had told me that fevers in infants/very young children were not a big deal -- that they run higher fevers than adults, and mostly should be left to run their course. Except make them comfortable, or give them fever reducers if it kept up for a long time.
So that was how I raised my kids -- I usually never "treated" a fever that was under 103, except to look for the cause.
And my kids turned out fine,
But the earlier posts were beginning to make me feel grandma had given me bad advice -- until what Sara said validated my grandma.
quote: She still refuses almost all solid food, doesn't take formula or expressed milk from the bottle very easily, but feeds from the breast no problem
rubble -- since you also mentioned your daughter has a speech therapist, does she have mouth development problems? This sounds quite a bit like my younger son, who had a real problem with "textures" at that age. Does she perhaps have any developmental delays in sucking, biting, chewing or such?
posted
Hmmm... the only thing I know is that I'd suspect it's a better idea to trust your pediatrician on medical matters than your non-pediatrician online friends.
Is there another doctor you could ask?
Posts: 2432 | Registered: Feb 2001
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I have a spin-off question based in part on this mention in your post:
quote:If you sponge, do it with lukewarm water and don't leave cold cloths stretched over the child since that would limit evaporation. Kids with prior neurological damage, or with head trauma, or who are trapped in a very hot environment ("cooking" in a car with the windows up) may not be able to regulate their body's temperature and so may not be able to prevent damage.
When my younger son was between 16 to 18 months old, he got that "trapped in a hot environment" situation (read - cooked in car with windows up while sleeping, because his Dad was standing outside the car talking to someone and not realizing how hot it was getting inside the car) When I arrived, I immediately got him out of there -- he was extremely flushed and red, etc and we got him cooled down, and all seemed to be fine.
But I have noticed ever since that his internal "thermometer" doesn't seem to work right. When outside he gets extremely hot very easily, flushed, and doesn't sweat when we are sweating. Like it isn't kicking in to cool him down. He has to really avoid very hot weather because he can't seem to cool down. (He is 17 years old now)
Is this inability related to the incident when he was a toddler? Or is that coincidence?
posted
Blaargh. I've tried writing this already but I realized everything was all out of sync. Let me try again. Warning: It's kinda graphic.
History of my children's healthcare and incidences with Dr. N.
When Jesse was born I took him to this practice where three doctors worked together. I usually saw once doctor, and sometimes the second, but I had never seen the third: Dr. N. The first two worked at the office far away from me, but I drove there because I knew the doctors and trusted them. Dr. N. worked at the office near my house, but I had never been there.
Anyway, the first time that Jesse ever got seriously sick was when I was pregnant with Jillian. Jes had been out of town for a month with his parents and siblings, working in California at the family business. I was staying at his grandmother's house for company, and for help since I was near the end of the pregnancy. I was also babysitting my brother-in-law's turtle, and my sister-in-law's praying mantis.
One day, Jesse got diarrhea, and it wouldn't go away. It was terrible. He had lots of other symptoms, including a low-grade fever, but the diarrhea was the only one that really scared me. Even vomiting didn't bother me like that did. I was giving him the BRAT diet but it wasn't helping. He wouldn't even eat it. It was obviously not just "normal" diarrhea. After a couple of days, when it was clear that he was expelling faster than he was intaking, I went ahead and made an appointment with the doctor. The first available appointment was at the office near my house, with Dr. N.
When we got there, they took his temp. It was 103. Not particularly scary but it just confirmed my belief that it wasn't just diarrhea. But the doctor felt differently. She told me that 103 was high and they weren't allowed to let me leave until it was under 101. o_O Since I was a new mom, and I didn't know how to argue with the "we can't let you leave" thing, I complied with the bath. I didn't really think I had any other choice at the time. It was one of the WORST things ever. To this day I am mad that I didn't bundle my son up, walk out, and go somewhere else.
Then we went to the lab, where we got a ton of little viles for stool samples. Yay. By this time, he wasn't really making any stools, as you can imagine. Still, I had to go home and scrape everything that I could get, and it still never met the requirements on the test tubes. (At some point here, my husband's grandmother's opinion of me went from "she's only slightly annoying" to "she's excellent". Apparently watching a twenty-year-old scraping stools without complaining or being sick brings a grudging respect. To this day, she talks about how I was such a good mother while Jes was gone.)
Well, it turned out to be salmonella, and he must have gotten it from the turtle. I didn't know about the salmonella danger, and so I had kept the turtle box down where he could reach it. He must have ingested some turtle poop. Gross, gross, gross.
During the rest of his illness, I took him to the ER for any needs. I felt bad about that but I didn't think I had any other choice. I couldn't get an appointment at the far office and I didn't want to see that wacko doctor again.
During the course of his treatment, which was happening at home, Jesse stopped taking fluids for long enough to worry me. It happened at the same time as a fever spike (105), so I assumed he was just feeling too bad or nauseous or whatever to drink anything. I decided that I would try to get his temp down and get him some fluids. I figured that if I couldn't get him to take some fluids at home, I'd go have him admitted, but I thought that I should give it a try at home first. I tried both Tylenol and baby Advil, but neither worked very well. That's when I sponged him down in the body-temp. bathtub. After that he drank several ounces of fruit punch Gatorade and ate half a plain Egg-o. : )
I've always been pretty active in my children's healthcare. When the *good* doctors would give me advice, I would always follow it. The docs know me and know that I'll do what they tell me to, and so they are generally willing to let me take care of my kids at home, whereas another mom might be asked to admit her child. If I feel like my kids are in serious danger, I won't hesitate to take them in, but I don't get easily freaked out when my kids get sick. I want to ask parents who take their kids into the doctor with every sniffle: "Don't you already know what they'll say? Plenty of fluids and rest. So do it. You don't need them to tell you that again."
My point is that I *could* have taken Jesse in to the hospital and have him hooked up to an IV, but why? He was already being treated for Salmonella at home, and I was successful in getting him to take fluids. And his case wasn't really that severe.
But I digress. A couple of months after Jillian was born, she had a scary "blue" incident. I took her into the ER and she was admitted immediately. She was tested for all kinds of things, but all the apnea tests were normal. (Pulse ox, breathing, etc. They did discover an abnormal amount of reflux but that was unrelated.) The only problem is that Dr. N. was the attending doctor while Jillian was in the hospital.
Since then, the woman goes out of her way to see Jillian. I don't know if it's possible to tag a patient's file or something like that, but no matter where or who I make the appointment with, she is there. I've even specifically driven to offices far away and asked for a doctor other than her, but she's there and always does the check-up.
I don't want to switch practices over this, but I'm running out of options here.
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Sara: Wow, thanks for the info on fevers. I've never been particularly scared of them but it's good to see a source on it. I can't exactly comment on this woman's qualifications, but suffice it to say that she was trained in another country before coming here.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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PSI, have you tried speaking with the office manager or someone else effectively in charge? If you make an appt. with a certain dr. that's the dr. you need to see unless there is some kind of emergency. It all sounds rather weird to me. There is no reason you should be "forced" to see a doctor that you don't want to.
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Wow, I am shocked that ANY medical proffesional reccomends junk food. I would switch right there. It also sounds like she is ....I don't know...stalking Jillian. It sounds to me like you are feeding her an EXCELLENT diet and are way more responsiblw than most parents. I have to ask, does this woman have any children of her own?
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Hey, no worries, Farmgirl. Always glad to cheer on good healthcare. Regarding your son, I am unaware of any lasting thermoregulatory effects from what you describe, although I just may not know of it. I'll look & follow up on email.
CaySedai makes a great point about following up with a nutritionist.
Xap/Tres: yeah, bummer about that, eh?
rubble, is she getting supplemental vitamins (with iron)? How short? (and is this a concern for you?)
PSI, sorry you had a distressing experience, but also extra sorry that it keeps following you. Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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Hey rubble...could your daughter have food sensitivities? My daughter was still mostly breastfed at that age and we have discovered she is sensitive to several foods (nothing life threatening, but dairy, corn, citrus and soft fruits give her diarrhea). Has she been intermittently colicky or have unusual bowel movements?
Edit: Junk foods are NOT the only strong flavored foods. Pesto, spicy beans, guacamole,etc, all have been among our babies first foods. In fact both boys starting eating raw garlic at about 6 months and they all love garlicky foods.
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I'd switch docs if I was you. I can recommend a great one near me but I think I live kinda far from you.
My 2yo fell off the bottom of the growth chart in weight for a little while and has just barely moved back on. All my babies have been skinny, though the other two stayed on the bottom of the chart. Though we don't eat as healthily as we should they are all in pretty good health. Do NOT get your kids used to eating a lot of junk food. Consuming a lot of processed/junky foods is what is causing this overweight epidemic in my opinion. Stick to whole milk, whole grains, lots of fruits and vegies, cheese and the occassional treat and she'll be fine! But switch docs!
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Well, the fevers I had were abnormal to say the least.
I will check up on this study, and I think I remember one that disagrees with it (something about brain hemmorrages, or swelling)...but it is many years old. Even that one (if I am remembering correctally) was concerned with 106 and above....
Sara, thanks...it's not that I don't trust you, or the reasearch....I trust you more than a lot of the people I have worked with IRL, just form your posts here at Hatrack....but it is something that touched me personally, and not just as a child.
I was 24 when the incident happened in the Army, and it turned out to be a mutated form of Mono, believe it or not. It took them weeks to figure it out, because it hit so hard so soon. Normally when you have mono it takes a while for you to notice that something isn't right. You go to the Md, and he tests you with a 'mono spot', a test that reacts to the antibodies that you body had produced to fight off the diseases.
I was hit really hard, really fast, and collapsed in my room...and could barely crawl into bed. I shivered so hard I fell out once, and a friend held me in the bed until they could rush me to the local hospital.
The mono spot showed nothing.
Because it was a rare variant, I had not had it long enough to develop significant antibodies, so the test came back false.
I had spikes that would have killed me almost immediately had they not packed me with ice....and Sara can tell you that isn't standard practice at hospitals. It was the first time I had ever even heard of it, and it scared me.
Bad.
I know that most fevers are a good thing, and the reason that we would check up on people with them is to prevent dehydration, which is not a good thing ever. Most fevers are benign, or actually help recovery by making the body inhospitable to whatever is the reason...bacteria, virus.
Fever is the most effective weapon a body has, but as far as I know it can do damage in and of itself. Rarely, but it can happen...or so i was taught, 14 years ago.
Also, room temperature is always the best temp for water is you are going to try and use water. But if you succeed in lowering the temp, it might not be a completely good thing.
The body creates fevers for a reason. That is why my mom wouldn't ever give us aspirin (or ibuprofen) unless the fever was over 103....anything less is uncomfortable, but not dangerous. In fact it was a good indicator that everything was working as it should to make us better.
Besides, Sara...I like reading about these things, and I don't doubt this at all....but I want to read up on it for myself.
Thanks for bringing it up. If you hadn't I wouldn't even know I needed to!
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Kwea, I would be a horrid physician if I didn't expect people to read up on things and make up their own mind, rather than blindly accept what I say as some dictate from high. I try to always give the best references I have as well as the advice precisely to facillitate this, and I'm always open to requests for additional documentation.
It was a nasty time for you, and you care about making sure others aren't harmed as well. What could be a better motive for pushing for the best, most accurate answer?
I can find additional reputable sources, or you can go browse around on your own. You will likely find information about Febrile Seizures (I have linked to an eMedicine review article), which both look and sound scary, but which are not a medical concern. These can happen in 2-5% of children from 3 months to 5 years old, but they have been exhaustively studied and pose no threat to the child -- no increased risk of death or even minor complications, no long-term risk of developmental or cognitive problems, nothing.
When a simple febrile seizure is diagnosed, we don't start anti-seizure medication and we don't do any brain imaging, as there is no benefit to either (this, too, has been extensively studied). They just represent the naturally lower seizure threshold of a brain at that age, and such a seizure ceases quickly without intervention or significant effect.
Other than that, I can find no standing evidence that there is a link between infection-related fever (in a neurologically undamaged child, and one without concomitant head injury) and any brain effects whatsoever. Recall as well that the effects of a febrile seizure are transient and medically (although not parentally!) unconcerning.
But "fever phobia" is entrenched in the culture, both for professionals and non-professionals, and the "treatment" of it can lead to greater harm. Inducing shivering is an effective way of triggering the body to produce more heat -- clenching muscles burn energy, which is released as heat -- and so it is counter-productive unless there is some damage to the thermoregulatory mechanism, such as from severe head trauma. In that case, the temperature could go too high, and the protocols are less clear as to whether the shivering will outpace the ice or no. But that represents a specific and isolated consideration.
Let us know what you find! I'll be interested regardless.
[ September 15, 2004, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
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PSI! You are the mother. You are your child's advocate. You know your children in ways medical professionals never can. Don't be intimidated by the medical degree.
Good luck - you are a fine mom from what I have read. (((PSI)))
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Is that Dr. Nooman's (or however its spelled?) practice? No I don't go there. I see Dr. Henry Bianchi--he's on La Cholla just north of Ina. He's great! He always listens to my concerns and trusts my judgment. I don't always care for his office staff but I put up with them because I like him a lot.
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Oh, we're home now. Sigh. Three days of hospital stay just to tell me its musculoskeletal pain. (Stephen was having chest pain and a low grade fever so we spent 3 days in the hospital) Apparently kids who have their chests cracked open and wired shut will from time to time have pain in the sternal area, especially when growing. Other kids can get it too. But since he's a transplant patient they have to do every test imaginable to make sure nothing serious is going on. I'm so exhausted.
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But this woman just sort of dumped my son in a cold sink. It was terrible. I was holding his hand and singing "Jesus Loves Me" and sobbing while he screamed. It was not very professional and it wasn't even a huge emergency.![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Other kids can get it too. But since he's a transplant patient they have to do every test imaginable to make sure nothing serious is going on. I'm so exhausted.
