posted
We've been having whining issues with Operaetta since early summer. She's six, so in my book that's too old to whine after you've been warned that you are, in fact, whining. We've tried: time in the corner, discussions, encouraging her to use a "big girl" voice, telling her we can't understand what she's saying when she whines, and finally in the last month or so have threatened spankings (and given a few). Spanking is something we don't like to do and reserve for situations when nothing else works. (they're actually more like taps on the bottom - the word "spank" is more fearful to my kiddos than the physical manifestation of it, since they know it's a big deal).
We are out of ideas! Spanking is not working when applied, and the threat of an impending spanking is losing its shock value. The only other things I can think of to do that would really affect her would be to either take away her silky for a night (but that's a security object) or to take away her story time at night (which I HATE to do because we stress reading so much). Any advice would be appreciated.
posted
Telling her that you can't understand her is still talking to her. Have you tried just ignoring?
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posted
Yikes. If it were me I'd ignore until I couldn't stand it anymore, then I'd silently pick her up and put her in her room, and shut the door.
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posted
I have no children.... just wanted to get that out of the way..
My first impulse was to say ignore her, too, but it seems she's pretty persistent...
Here's my idea... when she whines for something, give her something completely different... since you can't understand what she said, pretend you heard something else..
Let's say she whines, "I waaaant a popsiiiicle!!!" You look at her strangely, shrug, and hand her a shoe. "Whatever you say, kid." Keep on doing that until she asks for a popsicle in her regular voice...
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The room method has a tendance to escalate when it starts with whining. If it's just a punishment for arguing with her brother, etc., she's cool with it. But for some reason if I send her to her room because she's whining she goes beserk. Screaming, refusing to stay in room, etc. It's like the Exorcist but without the head spinny and vomiting thing.
posted
I firmly agree with PSI Teleport. Put her in her room and ignore. Explain what you're doing, and ignore her.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Hmmm. I'd say the whining evolution into tantrum can last up to an hour. She gets to the point where she's sweating, bright red, and hoarse. That's about the point I want to run screaming down the street.
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The trick, SO, is that if you do it a couple of times you won't have to do it again. The first tantrum is bad, the second may be worse, but they will get better and better until they stop. You have to be strong. : )
Wait, are you saying the point where you want to go screaming down the street is when she stops? Or do you give in to preserve sanity? I've done that.
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Ouch. I have no children, mind; but maybe you just have to turn it into an endurance contest? Surely an adult can be more stubborn than a child, if she truly sets her mind to it?
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posted
I know that trick but thanks for the reminder. I think what bothers me the most is that I have no idea where this sudden spurt of whining is coming from. No major changes at the time it started, etc. It's so weird. She can be very grown up and then the next second start acting like she's still in her terrible two's. My son stopped whining/tantrums around the age of 4, but I guess every child is different.
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I've got a similar problem right now, SO. My son, who used to be a good sleeper, has decided that bedtime is no fun. So he comes up with all kinds of crap to avoid bedtime or naptime. His tricks include:
1. "I pooped." 2. "I'm scared." ("Of what?") "Of, um, noises or something." 3. "Can you pray for me?" 4. "Jillian's making noise." 5. "I love you."
And so on. The worst is when he does this at naptime. He always chooses his time carefully; he waits until Jillian has just fallen asleep before attempting insubordinance. He finally figured out that I wasn't likely to really lay down the law when Jillian was asleep because it would wake her up and she wouldn't go back to sleep after that. So what do I do? I lay down the law anyway, pick up and comfort the screaming baby that I just woke up, and put Jesse's booty back in bed. Then he gets to stay in there by himself.
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Re: the story time, if you can stomach it, I'd consider taking it away... for two reasons. One, because it's a big deal to her and it will show you mean business, and two, the things we take away from our kids tells them something important: "these are the COOL things. These are the things we think you can't bear to give up." Reading is a marvelous privilege, ya know?
(I lived and breathed books as a little girl; having my books taken away was the worst punishment I could imagine.)
It's kind of like when we bribe our kids with dessert. "Finish up your potatoes, and you can have this brownieeeee..." We accomplish two things. We get them to eat the potatoes, and we teach them that, yep, we agree that the brownie is the best part of the meal.
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posted
Is she whining when you are not giving her what she wants, or because she wants to be heard? I think patience to endure what you're doing is probably all you need
I would continue to tell her that you'll listen to her if she talks in her big girl voice and turn away from her. After her timeout or whateer, approach her again in five or ten minutes and ask if she has something to ask you in her big girl voice. Be sure to follow with positive reinforcement when she does talk in her big girl voice. "Since you asked so nicely, yes we can go to the park"
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Not if it works. Things that work are useful because you only have to do it for a while. After she gets out of the whining habit, she'll be getting story time regularly again. Besides, reading is important, but right now what's more important is the discipline of Operaetta.
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posted
PSI, I know the pain of the bedtime woes. My daughter inevitably says she heard a noise, etc. I'm going to have to chuckle over the "will you pray for me" with Mr. Opera out of her earshot because that's a good one and she'd attempt it.
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Christy, I should have clarified. She's whining when she doesn't get what she wants. Lately even if I say, "Yes, of course you can have a cookie, but you need to wait just a second while I finish the laundry" she still whines.
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But she's still not getting what she wants, because what she wants is the cookie right now. [Oh, I misread. I thought you said she was whining even IF she gets what she wants.]
Do you tell her whining means she automatically doesn't get the cookie?
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I very much back the putting her in her/a room until she can discuss what she wants in a reasonable voice.
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I had a cousin who was as whiney as a kid can get right up through puberty. Then he grew up a little. Now he is a well adjusted, fun-to-be-with, hilarious stud.
Posts: 334 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:The room method has a tendance to escalate when it starts with whining. If it's just a punishment for arguing with her brother, etc., she's cool with it. But for some reason if I send her to her room because she's whining she goes beserk. Screaming, refusing to stay in room, etc. It's like the Exorcist but without the head spinny and vomiting thing.
Wow. This is exactly my seven-year-old sister. She's the most angelic, well-behaved child I've known, but while I was watching her this summer, she could just not handle being told to clean her room. "I can't do it by myself - can someone help me?" Of course, the few times I tried to make it into a collaborative project showed that someone helping her meant she sat and watched and played with a toy.
She could get to the point where she would rather whine and complain for three hours than pick up anything in her room. If I told her she couldn't come out until she was done, it turned into a sobbing, frantic tantrum.
I never reached a resolution with her, and I don't know if my Mom has either. The best I can figure out is that it's a simple product of children not having logical brains.
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posted
Naw, screaming and having a tantrum is way more fun than doing chores. That's why you have to make it *less* fun than doing chores.
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posted
Yep, punishing kids for the tone of their voice is a great idea. Especially when tone-of-voice is used to cut off conversation after you've pronounced your Judgement. Why if you are lucky, by the time she turns into a teeny bopper, she won't talk to you at all.
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posted
Well, she won't talk in *that* voice, that's for sure.
I mean, really. If society refuses to listen to her when she uses that voice, are *they* punishing her? Will she stop talking to everyone in the world just because they don't accept her whiny tone? Or is it more likely that she'll learn that certain ways of speaking are not considered acceptable for normal conversation? And what's wrong with teaching your child that early enough to save them from learning it in middle school where impressions really count?
posted
And of course, you are the person who will decide when she is talking in *that* voice. So that pret' much cuts off any communication that isn't in agreement with your desires.
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Wow, you sure are making alot of assumptions about how I parent. Who do you think you are to assume that because I won't tolerate whining that means I won't listen to any respectful dissention? The key here is that there's a big difference between disagreement and disrespect. Whining to get your way is not communicating disagreement, it's a form of trying to force your parent to give in to your whims. It's a power struggle, and it's not acceptable.
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posted
I say putting her in her room and ignoring her is the best idea. Perhaps , if she whines for a cookie, then no cookies for a week. Also, my FIRST line of defense when my kids whine is to offer them food or drink. Something like peanut butter on whole wheat and a glass of milk ( or soymilk). It quite often stops the whining in it's tracks.
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posted
I've heard of that. It may owrk for some but I balk at the idea of making myself childish to try and teach my child to not be childish. : )
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posted
Make fun of her while she does it, just by whining back so that she sees how annoying it can be...not in front of others, so much, but when she does it alone with you.
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I'd advise against making yourself silly or annoying or childish in hopes that it will inspire your children to stop behaving in the same fashion. In my own experience with kids, children find this hysterically funny -- and it will immediately turn into their new favorite game: make Mommy talk like a baby until she gives up and gets angry.
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posted
Oh, and another thought. At six, she's old enough to involve in the solution to the problem. "Look, here's the thing; we're all going a little nuts with this whining thing. Here are some ideas I've come up with. Do you have any ideas to add?" Sometimes this has worked very well with my kids.
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posted
Aspectre, she's 6. She needs to learn not to whine. Dealing with pre-adolescent children with some weird sort of adult respect is not very practical.
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posted
As someone who looked after many children this summer, I know how amazingly annoying and babyish whining can be. I've had hitting and yelling and I-hate-her, but whining is so annoying just makes you want to lock the child in a dark room with RATS until they start behaving like a sensible person.
My solution is to do nothing about whatever the person is whining about, if it's something that can be ignored. "She knocked into meeeee," would be answered with a disinterested "oh really? move away then."
Luckily, I never had anyone who used whining as their biggest defence- sulking and violence were more prevelent. I would suggest, to someone aged six, that any whining will immediately cancel whatever the whining was about. I want a cookieeeee would end up with no cookie. Six year olds are able to understand this, and cookies are not essential to life.
The only thing to do is to not change your behavior based on her whining, unless it is something like a cookie. "I don't want tooooo" doesn't mean okay, we'll sit down and discuss it, it means you're darn well going to do it.
If this turns into a temper tantrum, then as long as it's not extremely distructive, it's an easier problem. Confinement to a room and ignoring the screams is the only way. If she leaves the room, silently take her arm and put her back in the room. If she continues to do that as in the "get mommy to jump up and down" game, ignore her.
If you haven't tried it yet, try this: I have had meals revoked from me once or twice. It sounds harsh. It is harsh. Most times I was being a little too annoying, once my mother was just having a bad day. But nothing was more effective.
I was stunned, at first, and more than a little angry. Then I could hear the family at dinner, talking without me. Then I got hungry. Then I cried, feeling sorry for myself. Then I felt bad.
Sometimes the meal would be replaced with cereal, brought the parent who hadn't done the revoking. It never did me any harm, and I knew it was bad, I knew I had gone to far and in return, my mother was going to go too far.
I don't know if you're willing to go this far. I'm sure my parents felt bad, but I felt bad too. Obviously, this can not be used too many times. There was usually no warning, but always a definate statement: You've gone too far with your ___________, bed, no dinner." I think it happened twice in my lifetime. Never did me any harm, but made me think, understand. Children don't expect it, it's beyond imagining. Shock factor is everything.
There was always an apology after. "I'm sorry, I love you but _________."
If that doesn't work, nothing will. It's a deterrant like nothing else is, especially if the family meal has been a big part of your child's life.
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posted
Annie- What my mom had me do was go in my room and put away 10 things. Then a while later ten more things, etc. Most of the reason I didn't want o clean was that it was such a huge task, that made it reasonable.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
My five year old has really started to do the same thing.
I know some of these have been said before, but I'll just add my consent to the following:
1. Whining back. (But only in a silly way. Being hurtful isn't funny to kids any more than it is to grown-ups.)
2. Telling them you can't understand. I sometimes say "Still whining, can't understand you" 4 or 5 times before he changes his inflection.
Generally speaking, kids use whining because when it comes to manipulation, they have very few tools that they've learned. Whining is a simplified version of crying and they know that by instinct. If kids learn that whining is ineffective, or the consequences don't outway the benefits they won't do it. It's a simple matter of the end justifying the means (for both parent and child). Like PSI said, it's a power struggle.
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PSI-the girl I babysit for does the same sort of thing with bedtime. Last time I babysat, she got out of bed, and told me that she needed to call her mother. When I asked her why, she told me "I have issues!" in this plaintive voice. Best excuse she's given yet, I had the hardest time keeping a straight face.
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posted
A nice backhand will do the trick. Of course, it can also give them brain damage
But seriously. What always worked for me was that instead of my mom sending me to my room, she made me sit in the middle of the living room indian style. I had to sit and watch everyone enjoy themselves instead of boiling in my own anger alone in my room.
Edit: I still screamed and cried but I stopped eventually because I realized thate everytime I screamed, my mom would come up with another activity for my family to do while i was watching.
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Rivka: No way, that's totally cool. I have read the Messie's Manual, which I really love, but Flylady is totally new. I think I'm going to like it. : )
edit: Um, totally.
edit2: Actually this is amazingly good timing. This week's "zone" is apparently the bathroom, and would you believe that I actually spent the afternoon throwing everything under my sink away? That's so cool. It's perfect for me.
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My experience indicates that no two children behave the same. I can give you advice on what worked with our daughter but obviously you need to be able to adapt.
When Anna was young she would ask for candy or somesuch at the store. If she responded with whining or a fit (which only happened a handful of times) not only did she not get the item then she forfeited the opportunity on several succesive visits. It sounds like Operetta might be a tougher nut. I would continue to be patient and take several minutes to reassure her that a reasonable voice will be met with care and interest while a hysterical voice will be ignored. I realize how daunting this task can be but I also think that diligence on your part will eventually yield results.
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I just thought of something else. Anna went through a stage where she fought bedtime vigorously. We had already gone through that stage and couldn't understand why it was coming up again. Eventually we learned that a movie she had watched (Sixth Sense) had badly frightened her and she was having nightmares. The telling of this gives no idea how many conversations we had with her before we ferreted out the truth. Perhaps there is something bothering your child that she is having problems vocalizing. Again diligence and patience is the key.
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Has your 6-year-old started school? There are a lot more pressures put on kids at school to do certain things in certain ways and at specific times. This may possibly be only her way of rebelling against newly-imposed conformity. Talk to her teachers and see what their experiences are with her, also discuss with your doctor.
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but thanks for the reminder. I think what bothers me the most is that I have no idea where this sudden spurt of whining is coming from. No major changes at the time it started, etc. It's so weird. She can be very grown up and then the next second start acting like she's still in her terrible two's. My son stopped whining/tantrums around the age of 4, but I guess every child is different.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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