posted
This must be my week for parenting issues. Boy Opera is 9 and in the fourth grade. We live in a very quiet neighborhood with few children. A girl who lives up the street and is in his class at school came to the door a little while ago. She wanted to take him to the neighborhood behind ours to meet some boys his age that she knows. Boy Opera, of course, wanted to go because he misses having friends to play with at home.
We said no, because we feel that he's too young to go wandering into another neighborhood by himself. We don't even allow him to play in the front yard without supervision, or ride his bike by himself. We did, however, invite the girl to play in the backyard with the kids and they did so for awhile. We also offered to take Boy Opera on a walk through the other neighborhood at some point to see if he could meet some new friends.
Does all this seem pretty reasonable? Or are we just overprotective? The girl from his class is allowed to wander the neighborhood, and the one behind ours, but we just think that's a bad idea.
posted
How far away is the neighborhood behind yours?
Also, I'm guessing more dudes are going to be rooting for your son on this one...it seems to be a mommy thing to want to keep them close to home. Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Er...actually, I think it might be on the overprotective side. I think you might be setting your son up to have to choose between obedience because of some nebulous danger that isn't apparent to him and his need for friends.
I understand your fears, but I hope a way can be found to let him go to other people's houses so he can meet new people.
Children disappear on a daily basis. The younger they are, the easier the target. So with that concern in mind, you have every right to be worried with him roaming the neighborhood.
However, he is going to quickly reach an age when he is going to strenuously object to having chaperones and you'll have to decide when you feel comfortable with him being on his own.
You know your child better than I do - is he likely to get into a car with a stranger? To help someone look for a missing puppy?
posted
The neighborhood is directly behind ours, connected by a small footpath. Traffic is usually very light, but there are no sidewalks in either neighborhood. Of course, even though traffic is light, our dog was hit and killed by a truck last month!
This isn't just a mommmy thing; Mr. Opera is probably more adament about it than I am. But I'm definately interested in hearing the opinions of others. We want to strike a nice compromise that gives Boy Opera independence but still keeps him safe.
posted
I think in your own neighborhood would be fine, but I would not want my 9 year old going around the corner.
Posts: 2711 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I don't think your kid will suffer irreparable harm by being overly protected. I wasn't allowed outside of my yard except once in a while, and then only with a friend to the waterside 4 blocks away.
I think my mom let me ride my bike around the block once. Aside from that, I rode it around the driveway a lot. Posts: 1892 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Boy - this is a tough question, SO, without knowing your neighborhood/town, etc. I suppose if it had been my kid I would have just said brightly, "I'll go with you, I want to meet them to!" (Which would make him immediately not want to go).
But I've overprotective. And I have no personal experience to draw from really -- we have no neighbors -- much less neighbors that are kids. So it was never an issue I had to deal with.
posted
Speaking for myself, there would be no way you could keep me in the yard at 9 if I had a choice between being bored at home or doing something fun with kids my age.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
So did I, Tom. But they were usually the yards of people my parents knew. At least, that's how it should have worked, in theory.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Hmm. I did too, Tom, at that age. However, we lived on a gravel road with like 5 houses tops.
For the record, Boy Opera is very responsible for his age and is not the type of kid to fall for a lost puppy thing. We've had numerous discussion about personal safety. I just don't like the thought of opening the front door and saying, "Be back in 2 hours" and not know where exactly he's going to be, etc.
posted
Hmm. I'm trying to remember from my own childhood, but my memory gets fuzzy on specific ages that young. But I am thinking that riding a bike is something a nine-year-old typically likes to do, and I remember in my own childhood, I was first allowed to ride my bike up and down the block, and then eventually AROUND the block, sometime around that age. I could cross *my* street to go play with my friends, and I could go around the corner to Kim's house, but that was about it. Still, I was likely watched pretty closely. My mom was a stay-at-home mom, as was a lot of the other moms on the block, and we knew the senior citizens on the block well, too. So there was pretty much always someone looking out for us. So no, I don't think you're being overprotective, but it might be nice to arrange for him to meet some of the other kids. Maybe get to know some of the parents there, first, so that they can help keep an eye on him.
edit:
quote: I just don't like the thought of opening the front door and saying, "Be back in 2 hours" and not know where exactly he's going to be, etc.
Of course not! I mean, I had some slight freedom at age 9, but my parents always knew where I was going. Always. Yeah, I could go around the corner or cross the street, but I had to tell them, first. You're not at all unreasonable to want that.
posted
Wow. You guys were really obedient kids. And had really interesting parents. My parents wouldn't have cared where I was at 9, as long as I was back by dark.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I err on the "so protective, they are in danger of never learning how to deal with life" side. But then, I think my oldest is kind of an introvert and after school, she usually just needs to rest after being around so many people all day. She is 8 and still doesn't really ride a bike yet. I need to set a goal to work with her on that.
Also, 9 is a long year development-wise. I think whether he's just barely 9 or 9 for a while makes a bigger difference than what the neighborhood is like. In the end you have to go with your gut, because even if he isn't snatched, he could fall off and break a bone or whatever, and you have to live with yourself. If Dad still isn't on board, maybe he needs an opportunity to spend some time with the boy.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote: This isn't just a mommmy thing; Mr. Opera is probably more adament about it than I am.
That's what made me think it. Maybe "bringing him on board" is not so much the idea as you two coming to a consensus. Of course, if he still feels strongly, his opinion should stand.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Ever thought of organizing a neighborhood "meet-n-greet" block party? So you (and your neighbors) can get to know one another a little? I think you need to do what seems best and right to you and your family, but it seems that the issue is more along the lines of not knowing the neighborhood well enough to allow your trustworthy child out and about. Maybe that's the first step - getting to know the neighbors?
Personally, I was allowed to pretty much wander up until I hit puberty and then all of the sudden my freedom was curtailed based on some vague excuse that teens are trouble. Granted, by 16 I was so ticked off at the unreasonable restrictions based on nothing that I started to ensure reasons became attached. Not nearly as embarrassing in high school to say "Yeah, can't make it cause I'm grounded. Why? Oh - y'know, wild party at X's last weekend. My parents found out." Posts: 5609 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
When I was 9 I was riding my bike all over the place, as much as a dozen blocks away. I will say the town I lived in and the times were different.
As our 8 year-old approaches 9 I'm not as comfortable with the same amount of freedom as I had. I absolutely trust him but don't trust what is running around out there. The issue hasn't come to head yet so I haven't given it too much thought but that will change soon.
Posts: 134 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
If it makes you feel better, there are far fewer kids getting snatched than there were back in the day.
I actually started a thread on this topic some time back because I was afraid that a certain, uh, meme was developing in America.
I know it's presumptuous of me as a non-parent to say anything, and I'm not saying that I don't understand wanting to keep kids safe. I just put myself in the place of some of these kids and I think I would have been terrifically miserable if I wasn't allowed to wander.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
When I was 9 I had to stay where I could see my house. Of course we stretched this a little, but I think if your kid is a fairly obedient one you don't have to worry too much. Maybe I was sheltered, but I seem to have turned out ok.
That being said, I think there's a large difference between letting him have some personal freedom and letting him go to a completely different neighborhood with people you don't know. I don't think it is overprotective, he is only 9 after all.
posted
I'm not primarily worried about my son getting snatched but the sorry influence of other kids his age that have very little parental guidance. It is not so easy to know who your kid is hanging with when he is not close to home.
posted
I think not being able to play in the yard without supervision is rather strict, but otherwise I don't think you're being too over protective.
When I was nine we were good friends with our neighbors across the street (cul-de-sac, actually, so we knew all of the neighbor's cars and were instructed to take down the numbers of cars we didn't recognize) and were allowed to play in either of our yards as long as our parents knew which yard we were in. They had a creek behind their house, and we were allowed to explore that as we wished as long as we told someone we were going down to the creek. We were also allowed to ride our bikes to the bus stop and back, but since we walked there every morning on our own, they couldn't really not allow it. No matter what we always had to tell someone where we are. Until I moved last month, I still had to tell my mom where I was going or email her if she wasn't home and I went somewhere. Most of the time I forgot and it wasn't a big deal, it was more a rule for my brother who has a habit of randomly disapearing and not answering his cell phone.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I think you may be suffering from the same obsessive fear that has invaded the American and to a lesser extent the Canadian consciousness as of late. Comments like bCurt's are telling. "Times are different now." This is interesting considering that crime is lower now than it was at almost any point in the last 40 years or so. The streets in a good neighbourhood are for the most part, safe, and denying a 9 year old even a small amount of time away from the house and immediate presence of his parents may undermine his development, in my opinion. When you look at the relative risk of letting your son play one neighborhood over, you are putting him in much more danger every time you ask him to get in the car.
As for me, when I was 9, I could go where I wanted in the neighborhood. I could bike to the store, or go to friend's houses as I pleased, and I had more controlling parents than most. Most kids I knew growing up had more freedom to go where they wanted and be without adult supervision. Maybe in Canada kids have more freedom, I don't know.
Posts: 1769 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
I think that it is a bit overprotective. I think it would be a good idea for you to go over and meet the other kids, and their parents, it would help you feel better about it. Maybe there would be a kid who is a little older who could walk with your son. The have just observed that kids that are given stricter boundries tend to want to break them, especially when all of their friends have more freedom.
Posts: 1015 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Opera, I struggle with this too. My son is 11. Last year, after he lied to me twice about being outside my boundaries without permission, I had a little soul search and decided that I'd created a situation where he'd almost have to lie to me. So I bought a set of 2 mile walkie-talkies and the new rule is that when he goes to the neighborhood up above us (we live at the bottom of a hill), he has to contact me when he gets to his friend's house, and let me know where he is exactly and how long he plans to stay. He is to contact me when he leaves. And he's to answer my call if I buzz him.
It has solved quite a few problems and he likes doing it because it gives him an excuse to use the walkie talkies. Well worth the $30.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Actually, as far as it goes, that's true now.
Liar.
-o-
I really don't have any idea. My kids aren't this age yet, and my own upbringing doesn't give me anything to go by. (And my kids at nine, being developmentally delayed, will no doubt be different from your son at nine.) Ultimately, though, I don't think any answers here are going to be too useful, with people not knowing just how far away "the next neighborhood over" is, what kinds of streets have to be traversed to get to it, and so forth. And of course, nobody here knows your son like you do, so I expect your instincts are better than anything anyone here can tell you.
Do you have anybody you trust who knows your son who can give advice, like a grandparent or something? Maybe a teacher who is also a parent?
In any case, I am very curious to learn from this thread how much freedom people think is appropriate, and how they go about phasing it in--for someday. I like the graduated freedoms thing, so far. That sounds like something I will do.
My girls don't know how to ride a bike yet either. I'm going to work on Cor to convince her that it's time to buy a pair for Christmas. But, honestly, I just don't think I can trust the girls to even be able to follow me safely at this point. They are six, but they are more like four from a developmental standpoint. So it might just be a "ride around the driveway while I watch" sort of thing. But I have this feeling that they progress faster the more I expect of them, and the more responsibilities and freedoms, within reason, I give them. (This is something Cor and I wrestle with, by the way. I am often the one not holding their hand [metaphorically speaking] and letting them take small risks. Hence, my push to get them bikes, though we're not sure they're ready.)
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Still reading through all the responses. This is good stuff. I like the idea of the meet-n-greet block party, but the problem is that none of these people have children. Out of the 60some houses in the neighborhood, only our family and one other has children - the rest of the people are senior citizens (that's why it's so quiet!)
posted
SS: I know that was the case when I was in middle school. I don't remember about when I was 14/15'ish. I was never a neighborhood-walking kind of person. But yeah, when I was 16 I suddenly had a lot more freedom about being other places. Though I wasn't allowed to go anywhere during weekdays (Mon-Thurs) during the school year and my curfew was 10 pm on Fri-Sun. Actually, I can't remember if I was allowed to spend all of Sunday out.
Though I strongly suggest against a 10 pm curfew all through high school. It's kinda an early curfew. At least 11 pm-midnight is a better timepoint. Heck, I'd be at Barnes N Noble more often than not and they close at 10:30.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I like my nonexistent curfew! There reasons why I should be trusted: my parents do know my friends well, I have never been one to get into trouble, and I am usually just at a friend’s house watching a movie or something. It just works well for me not to have a curfew because I am a night person and a really social person.
Posts: 1015 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Actually, I had a similar scenario last week where we were at a pool at a condo that was quite crowded and my new brother in law (just married husband's sister) thought it would be fun to have a "chicken fight". This is where two people sit on the shoulders of two other people and try to knock each other over. I had always been taught never to do this, though usually a lifeguard would interfere with such an activity. There was not a lifeguard at this pool. I explained that I didn't want to play, and was frankly disturbed that two other adults with three little children were playing. (I explained to them that I was not interested because we barely had 1 adult per child as it was, without 4 of the adults being preoccupied with trying to drown each other, and 4 of the six children could not swim.
Well, someone decided to have my oldest up on their shoulders, and when I put a stop to that my daughter was horribly embarassed. I'll add that just before this, there was some wrestling near the stairs that resulted in the back of her head being whacked on the concrete step (which entailed someone holding her head under water). She moped for a long time after, and my husband felt I had been too hard on her, but I don't see how I could have responded otherwise. Maybe I should have done what I wanted to do, which was tell off my brother in law. :sigh: Anyone else ever hurt their kids feelings rather than embarass another adult?
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Try letting him go by him on your street. If he shows you that he can do that responsibly and safely, then you could go and try letting him over to the other street for a little while. Every time he proves himself trustworthy of walking in a certain area, you can extend the area until you don't feel comfortable anymore. That’s what my mom always did with my brothers and me. It may be a little different because there were usually two of us walking together at all times. I didn't go alone until I was about 11. I think that's because I entered the Middle School. I guess my parents were trying to say that when I got to the middle school it meant I was going to have to be more responsible and mature about things and I'd get more privileges.
Posts: 1401 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Space Opera, I continue to struggle with this issue. When I was a child, i was basically in the neighborhood, or other neighborhoods, until dinner time. We also went into the woods at our farm, across fields, and played in and near water.
Because of this, my kids stay in the yard. We have people over, and they go over to their friends' houses. Our neighborhood is not the cut-through-the-backyard type, either.
We do let my daughter do a short bike ride to a nearby street. Sometimes I will let her walk about 1/4 mile to her friend's house, and and her friend meets her half way.
So, I am overprotective, I guess.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
I do have a friend who never had a curfew, and never had a bedtime. Her parents figured that she'd learn her lesson when she got very little sleep and no sympathy in the morning. She did. She's still intact, happy, and a reasonably good kid (now in her mid-twenties). So, I don't think there's something intrinsic to the rules or lack of rules that is good or bad. I think most of it will simply depend on the choices the kid makes in life. And those choices come from an infinite source of experiences and knowledge that have been given to the kid over years of childhood.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Yeah, insofar as the kid is physically safe. And that's the rub. How much is enough to keep your kid reasonably safe? (And what's "reasonably" mean?)
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Being as I'm only fourteen I don't think my opinion would have much weight, but I remember when I was nine.
At nine, I was allowed to go to a neighborhood to the side, as long as it was to a house/street that my parents new some people. That way, if there was an emergency I could be contacted.
My belief is that if your child has shown to responsible, maybe let him a little ways into that neighborhood. Possibly get to know one or two of the neighbors.
But, with no sidewalks, I would be concerned for his safety. Maybe make some sort of system of staying on the edge of the street so you can get out quickly.
I don't blame you either way on what dicission you make. I don't consider it overprotective.
Posts: 1831 | Registered: Jan 2003
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I think it's most important that your child understand that you have trust in them. What you don't have trust in are the things out of your and his control. When situations come up in which it's a trust-me matter (like staying late at a party), you should give him the trust he would give you. And in these situations, where the concern is more for external matters, he will be able to understand how these situations are different.
Posts: 1892 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote: When situations come up in which it's a trust-me matter (like staying late at a party), you should give him the trust he would give you.
Hmm. Are you saying this is true for all kids? I would tend to think that a child needs to earn this trust. Not just for the sake of earning it, and growing thereby, but so that you have reason to believe that nothing bad or dangerous will happen. So I tend to think that implementing trust in small increments is better than granting it all at once.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
"How much is enough to keep your kid reasonably safe? (And what's "reasonably" mean?)"
Exactly. It is so hard to know, so I can't bear to take the chance. Plus, they are eight and ten, and I want them around me!
Space Opera, as someone said, your choice, if you are thinking about it this much, will be the right one for you and your kids. That is all that matters.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
I read through about half of the posts.. I don't know if this was said already.
But something I think would be very beneficial and open quite a few doors for you and your child is if not only he was making friends, but you and Mr. Opera were making friends with the parents in your neighborhoods as well. It would give you a much more comfortable feeling knowing the people in your neighborhood and building that trust. I also think it would strengthen some bonds between you and your child if you were getting involved and making friends along with him. *shrugs*
posted
I'm not sure, Icarus. I think the granting of trust or not-granting of trust isn't what makes the child trustworthy.
Posts: 1892 | Registered: Mar 2002
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