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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » "Lost" discussion *including spoilers* (Page 23)

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Author Topic: "Lost" discussion *including spoilers*
Strider
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It's interesting. As the show goes on we get more and more information about the island, and how and why stuff works the way it does there. Grounding it in reality so to say. I mean, when we were first introduced to the Island, it was all so mystical. But yet, while that part of the show is moving away from the mystical side of things, the "coincidences" and connections keep adding up. It seems like everyone we met was and is connected to everyone else in some weird way. Everyone from main characters to minor characters show up in multiple flashbacks. So where is the show going with all this? How can they explain all the coincidences and connections they've set up?

oh, what's the deal with the numbers on the printout changing? the new numbers were in the vicinity of 922044:16 and the old sheet they were around 41602118:29. ummmm...so what's going on? continuity error? did someone switch the log out of Locke's pocket? what gives? they're nowhere near eachother. One set is obviously working off the current date and time as we know it. the other set also seems to be working off a date timestamp, but one that starts from zero and counts up and puts the date at roughly 4800 years from the zero date. check it out:

Old

New

[ May 26, 2006, 02:52 AM: Message edited by: Strider ]

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Kwea
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The second one says "system faliure"...perhaps because the numbers are worng now?
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Strider
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yeah, but the change in the numbers happens before the sytem failure.

Also, could the incident and leak they talk about be what caused the sickness among Rousseau's people?

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SenojRetep
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Strider-

If 9-22-04, 4:16 is one and 4-16-02, 118:29 is another it wouldn't be that dramatic of a jump. And Locke said there was a whole ream of numbers (19 days worth of reading, or something like that). It looks from the screen shots that there are several entries per day (more than the approximately 16 per day that our hatch could account for) and the non-date-digits don't appear to be ordered either. Very odd.

I didn't like our introduction to the others. They're far less menacing than I think they should have been. The bit with the beard and calling each other by first names, and generally looking sheepish. Just didn't like it.

Also nobody's mentioned specifically the tie from Desmond's hatch partner (can't remmber his name) to Sayid. And I wonder what event he meant when he said he left the military because his men followed orders; maybe something about the interrogation Sayid participated in for him.

Personally I think Walt's coming back. I think his paranormal abilities are tied to the island. I have my doubts about Michael, though. I think it's more likely that Walt will come back alone.

Do you wonder if the writers read message boards to get ideas? Like the hurley bird and the aliens. Maybe the entire story arc is being driven by message board speculation.

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Elizabeth
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"I didn't like our introduction to the others. They're far less menacing than I think they should have been. The bit with the beard and calling each other by first names, and generally looking sheepish. Just didn't like it."

I did. It made sense to me. I think Henry is in control of them, not just their leader. They are minions.

"Also nobody's mentioned specifically the tie from Desmond's hatch partner (can't remmber his name) to Sayid. And I wonder what event he meant when he said he left the military because his men followed orders; maybe something about the interrogation Sayid participated in for him."

It was mentioned somewhere that Inman was in an Abu Graib sort of situation.

"Personally I think Walt's coming back. I think his paranormal abilities are tied to the island. I have my doubts about Michael, though. I think it's more likely that Walt will come back alone."

I think that, not only is Walt coming back, but that he is key to the whole operation, somehow.

"Do you wonder if the writers read message boards to get ideas? Like the hurley bird and the aliens. Maybe the entire story arc is being driven by message board speculation."

Now, that would be interesting. This whole show reminds me of "The Magus." Just when you think you have an inkling of a clue, more layers are revealed.

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peterh
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I've heard (can't remember where) that Walt will definitely be back next season. The rumors of his growth spurt this last year have been false. (Anyone see him in the episode of "My Name is Earl" a few months ago? He looked the same.)

Also, I've heard that Michael's charachter will be back next season but only in a limited capacity.

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Puffy Treat
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The official "Lost" podcast confirmed that next season the Others will play an even larger role next season, we'll gradually learn Libby's backstory via flashbacks (of other people), and we'll be seeing much more of Penelope Widmore.
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JonnyNotSoBravo
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quote:
Originally posted by Strider:
yeah, but the change in the numbers happens before the sytem failure.

The system failure happens on the day they get to the island. Why couldn't the change have happened after the system failure, and then they found it?

quote:
SenojRetep wrote: If 9-22-04, 4:16 is one and 4-16-02, 118:29 is another it wouldn't be that dramatic of a jump. And Locke said there was a whole ream of numbers (19 days worth of reading, or something like that). It looks from the screen shots that there are several entries per day (more than the approximately 16 per day that our hatch could account for) and the non-date-digits don't appear to be ordered either. Very odd.
He said 19 MINUTES worth of reading, because the timer had 19 minutes on it. Remember how John kept looking at the clock nervously? He focuses obsessively on one thing at a time. Also, 118:29 is an odd way to keep time. 118 hours? But then it'd be a new day. 118 minutes? But then it'd go up to 1440 (24*60) which seems a bit huge, doesn't it?

quote:
Elizabeth wrote: I did. It made sense to me. I think Henry is in control of them, not just their leader. They are minions.
Ditto. And Henry is a liar and a master manipulator. Part of me wonders whether Libby was in on it. The way her hair and appearance changed seems very...manipulative to me. And she was lying about being a psychologist (remember her in the ward and obviously on medication?). She very conveniently had a boat ready for Desmond, and was in the ward with Hurley, perhaps to choose him for the island? I like the Walt conspiracy idea.

Some thoughts:

- Are Sayid & Co. going to run into Michael? They both have boats.

- Did you get the funny look between the Doc and Kate? And then Kate blinked slowly and deliberately! Is there another plan? The show cut away after Jack told Hurley/Kate/Sawyer that he had a plan and most people assumed he was telling them only about Sayid approaching by boat.

- why did the spook (Desmond's hatchmate) paint that map? Why invisibly? What's the significance? I know the super smart ex-hatchmate-turned-stain came up with the idea for the map, but WHY?

- where did the people at the monitoring station (the pearl)go? What hatch(es) are the people who were found dead in the caves (from waaaaaaaay back in Season 1) from? Or are they just Rousseau's people? Rousseau never confirmed they were her people, did she?

- does someone want to delve deeper into all the literary references being made? Charles Dickens, Locke, Rousseau, Henry Gale (Dorothy's uncle from the Wizard of Oz, and she got away with the wizard by balloon), and I'm sure I've missed a few.

- the Others HAVE killed people (remember the Tailaways' experience) and they tried to kill Charlie.

- what is the significance to the Others of calling some people good and some people bad?

- That electromagnetism "leaking" story is such crap from a realistic standpoint (but this is TV). Was that just made up by the spook? And does the electromagnetism stuff have to do with the "monster" that tears around the island and appears to be that black cloud of particles?

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Elizabeth
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There was a fiction novel I read by Catherine Neville called "The Magic Circle." (It predates "The Davinci COde, but is the same basic story)
In the novel, there were circles of power on the earth. These places created a natural reaction similar to an atomic blast.
Maybe the island is a place like this? (I know this has been mentioned)
Maybe this island has always been known to have power, so there is a long history of trying to use it, as well as hide it? Thousands of years, even, changing with technology.

As for the literary references, the show is rife with them.

Ironically, "Our Mutual Friend" is the only Dickens novel I have never been able to finish!

Little Nell. Barf.

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Elizabeth
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Ha!
OK, it was "The Old Curiosity Shop I did not read." I did not read OMF, either.

One thing about "Our Mutual Friend" is that the main character cannot get his inheritance unless he marries a certain woman.

Pen cannot marry Desmond.

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andi330
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Why do you assume that because Libby spent time in a psych ward that she cannot also be a psychologist? Psychologists are just as capable of developing a mental illness as the next person.
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Elizabeth
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quote:
Originally posted by andi330:
Why do you assume that because Libby spent time in a psych ward that she cannot also be a psychologist? Psychologists are just as capable of developing a mental illness as the next person.

I think she could have been pretending to be a patient. And, being a psychologist would make it easier to know how to act. Plus, it would fit with the Hanso Foundation.

How come I can;t get into the site? All I get is sound.

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Sterling
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Argh. So... Frustrating.

I'm getting the feeling that the writers and producers are changing things based on out-of-show logistics rather than in-show plots and characterizations.

There was a strong theory elsewhere that the real reason Libby and Anna Lucia were killed off was to punish the actresses for being arrested for drunk driving. I know Anna Lucia was getting a lot of derision in some circles, but I was just starting to think she was contributing something to the show when they killed her off. Offing Libby just after the psych ward revelation smacks of plot threads never being tied up.

And Walt being shipped off (if he doesn't return) is more likely because they're afraid of the actor going through puberty than anything else.

I'm still interested to find out what's going on, but I'm increasingly frustrated.

And if "half-cocked" Michael, who has become more of a way to move the plot from x to y than a character with believable motivations, never comes back, I'll only be too glad.

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MightyCow
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I've never believed the theories that Libby and Anna Lucia were killed to punish the actresses for their drunk driving. Stars are notorious for problems, you can't knock them from a show for a relatively minor infraction (not making a judgment about the severity of drunk driving, but the in terms of the legal slap on the wrist they received).

Libby still seemed to have a fair amount of character development, but Anna Lucia had just had her test of character and passed, so it made perfect sense for her to be able to die.

Both Anna Lucia and Libby appeared in dream sequences or flash backs after their deaths, so I don't think we've seen the last of either. If they continue to appear after their deaths, that rules out the idea that they were "fired" for their off-set behavior.

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Puffy Treat
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Ana Lucia and Libby were not killed to punish the actresses for the DUI charge.

According to a recent "TV Guide" article on just this matter:

Michelle Rodriguez wanted to be a "one season only" character from the start. Before she signed on, she requested that she be written out of the series by about the time season two wrapped up.

Cynthia Watros was a slightly different matter. They had run out of ideas for what her character was going to do on the Island, other than the romance between Libby and Hurley.

However, they had plenty of story involving her life before the Island...Libby's backstory is going to be a key sub-plot revealed over the course of season three.

So they decided to have her death added to Ana Lucia's as the action that motivates the castaways to go to the Others.

Cynthia Watros will still be in the series as Libby, just in flashback form.

This information was from the writers of the show. Unless the actresses come forward and say this was not in the plan until the DUI incident, I'm going to trust them.

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RyanINPnet
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I don't think this has been mentioned yet. Doesn't Libby say, when she is talking to Desmond about the boat, that her husbands name was Dave? Isn't that the name of the guy that Hurley was imagining?

Something to think about...

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by The Pixiest:
2> Did Locke and Ecko make it out of the hatch?
...
Did I leave anything out?

Not just Locke and Eko. Desmond, too. And why is Penny having people monitor for EM anomalies?
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Jay:
The statue is Homer Simpson

No, the statue is a broken remnant of the tiki from that Brady Bunch episode. The Losties have been shrunk.
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Elizabeth:
Well, how did Henry get those cuts on his lip?

He got beaten up pretty badly by the Losties, remember?
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by andi330:
Why do you assume that because Libby spent time in a psych ward that she cannot also be a psychologist? Psychologists are just as capable of developing a mental illness as the next person.

More.
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Lisa
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Anyone notice that Desmond's full name is Desmond David Hume? Is anyone here familiar with Hume's philosophy? Now we have a David Hume and a John Locke. Who's next?

Also, I wonder if Libby wound up in the mental hospital because she couldn't deal with the death of her husband.

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Elizabeth
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"He got beaten up pretty badly by the Losties, remember?"

No, I missed a bunch of shows, remember?

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MightyCow
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I think Syiad Sigmund Freud might have something to say as well [Wink]
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Elizabeth
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" Now we have a David Hume and a John Locke."

And Rousseau.
My question to myself is, how dumb or smart do the "Lost" creators think the general vieewing audience is?

In other words, are these name references obvious on purpose? Or is there a hidden degree of subtlety? Do the creators assume most people will not get the connection, or do they assume we will be second-guessing our second guesses?

Also, couldn't Hugo's therapist in the hospital, as well as all the residents, be actors playing "Truman Show" kinds of roles? His house bought bu Hanso and burned down on purpose? Etc?

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Elizabeth
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"Pure speculation, but perhaps some foreshadowing. From the wikipage on David Hume: 'From 1763 to 1765 Hume was Secretary to Lord Hertford in Paris, where he was admired by Voltaire and lionised by the ladies in society. He made friends with and, later, fell out with Rousseau.' "

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Desmond

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Sterling
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All right, so the theory regarding Anna Lucia and Libby is probably wrong. That still leaves Walt and Libby's various dangling questions. And if they're going to have flashbacks to fill in Libby's story, I have to ask, why? Why do we need to know the back story of a character who can no longer interact with anyone except in dream sequences, and what should we make of visions, which have been rather vague and metaphysical up to this point, suddenly giving out specific and (presumably) accurate information?
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Puffy Treat
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Who said anything about her backstory being told in visions? [Wink]


They said her backstory would be told, and that she'd turn out to have important connections to certain people, places, and things.

For instance, she was very well placed to give Desmond the boat, wasn't she?

I'm betting she'll turn out to be involved in the Widmore family dealings...and possibly the Hanso Foundation.

Other people knew her...for all we know at this point, she'll appear in flashbacks had by Penelope Widmore.

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