posted
Godric's landmark post got me thinking about planning for the future, even though I believe the end is near:
quote:Godric: my parents went through a particularly strange fanatical religious phase. They believed the rapture was going to take place before I ever graduated from high school and never encouraged me to prepare for the future
I haven't put any money into a 401k, thinking that I wouldn't be around to collect. I haven't bought any extra life insurance; I haven't put any extra effort into fixing up my yard; and I haven't invested any pride of ownership in any of my belongings, believing that it's all going up in smoke soon.
At the same time I've gone overboard, attending preparedness seminars, squirreling away food and water, exploring ways to take myself off the power and fuel grid, and doing a whole bunch of other nutty stuff.
Now I'm about burned out on the whole idea. Let the end come. I don't care whether I survive or not.
Questions for those of you who believe in the rapture or the second coming or Armageddon or whatever:
1. How has your belief influenced your behavior?
2. How do you keep yourself motivated to improve yourself and the world around you?
3. How do you motivate your children?
4. How close do you think the end is?
And thanks again Godric for an excellent landmark.
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1. How has your belief influenced your behavior?
When I was a kid, I spared myself too much anxiety about scary, grown up things by the comforting thought that I probably wouldn't reach that age, at least under the current set of circumstances. Now, I can't take that kind of comfort anymore, no matter my belief.
2. How do you keep yourself motivated to improve yourself and the world around you?
I simply admit that I have no idea when the end might come, and that if I am not "with the program" when it does come, I'm in trouble. Being "with the program" for me includes such things as improving myself and the world around me.
3. How do you motivate your children?
Haven't had to face that yet, but I don't foresee a problem.
4. How close do you think the end is?
I wish I could believe it was soon, i.e. within the next twenty years. Realistically (a strange word, perhaps, to describe a religious belief such as this one), I think it's more likely to be on the order of several decades, at least. I am not unwilling to consider the possibility that I'm completely off, and that the correct time frame should be counted in centuries.
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Boon
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Skillery, do you know my husband?!?
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I might know him. There's a fellow down the street who buried a large pipe in his back yard and turned it into a shelter. The boys from our church congregation got to take a tour of it awhile back and said that his shelter is nicer than most homes.
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Boon
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We don't have a shelter, so I guess we're not too extreme, but we do have a rather large stockpile of...stuff.
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Many years ago, my then-husband and I were "entertaining" a rather persistant insurance salesman who didn't want to take no for an answer. I actually used the idea, not of the "rapture" but the impending end of the world, as an excuse to get rid of him. I'm rather embarrassed about it now, but I was very young then. Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2001
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1. How has your belief influenced your behavior?
I hope it hasn't. Honestly, I hate that the Left Behind series has led some people who didn't want to go through the bother of planning for their future to use the Rapture/Second Coming as an excuse. Scripture isn't at all clear about the concept of the rapture, so I'm not counting on the theory being fact, and it *is* clear that we won't know when it's going to happen. Not even the guy coming back knows. People whose opinion I respect think it will be in our lifetime, but part of why I respect their opinion is that they still plan for a full life, complete with 401k and retirement planning, life insurance, etc. This doesn't mean that they don't *really* believe that it might happen -- it means that they are also following what it says in Ecclesiastes, that we are still to plan for the future. That's what you do when God has provided you with much. You share, and you store against the winter and drought.
2. How do you keep yourself motivated to improve yourself and the world around you?
How does anyone? I *like* becoming a better person. It makes me happier in the short term. The long term benefits are a little harder to get into and feel.
3. How do you motivate your children?
Spankings.
No, just kidding. I believe that we were given life to live it fully, and if I try to live that way, I would hope it would be infectious. As it stands, this hasn't been an issue. I don't think a toddler is physically capable of living less than 1000%.
4. How close do you think the end is?
I don't know and refuse to speculate. I think it will happen, but it's not within my control, it's nothing I could possibly begin to predict, so it's a silly waste of time to speculate.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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I grew up thinking of the rapture as a bad thing, but I'm kind of a pessimist anyway. Lately I've come to view the 7 seals as applying to each individual's life as well as the course of the world. The allegory applies on many levels as well as some literal occurences.
Also, I kind of think 80% of what most people think is involved in the end of days is non-scriptural, while roughly 80% of what is scriptural is ignored.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Christians have been anticipating the imminent return of Jesus since the 1st century BC. During certain periods, Christians didn't plant crops because they were certain the worldn't last long enough for them to harvest. This process has been going on for 2000.
I think that the signs of the times are in many ways intentionally vague because Jesus wants people in all times to be spiritually prepared for his coming. At the same time the scriptures and history teach us that we must also be prepared for the possibility that his coming won't be for another 1000 years. Those to are not contradictory, they are the essence of wisdom.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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Last night, two of my friends spent half an hour seriously discussing the strategy involved in surviving a zombie attack. It involved discussing getting resources, weapons, and plan of attack. They told me afterwards this is a common conversation topic for them.
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I hope this isn't a full out derailment, but my in laws had this little red book about how to survive various disasters. Shark attack, Earthquake, Tornado. The oddest one was UFO abduction. It advised the reader not to imagine anything they wouldn't want the aliens to do to them, such as... uh... probing (the book was more specific) as aliens are often reputed to be telepathic.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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On an almost unrelated note, I just finished Heinlein's Job: A comedy of justice . Which is a very humorous treatment of the end of the world, bet you didn't know a fictional account of the end of the world could be humorous, but I assure you it can.
Back to the original question. I believe that is entirely possible that end of the world could happen tomorrow, but I set the most likely date 4.5 billions years hence...that's the point at which the sun will have grown into a red giant, and engulfed the earth in it's corona. This belief that end of the world could be anytime from tomorrow til then hasn't really affected by my behavior, but in those times when I'm feeling depressed anyway, that's like the topping on the cake.
It does scare me sometimes to watch the news and see things which could be signs and portents, but either the end of the world will be sudden, in which case, I won't care anyway and should just keep doing what I plan to, or it won't be, and I'll have time to make a plan then. I don't have any children to motivate, so haven't really considered it.
Posts: 349 | Registered: May 2003
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I have to admit that my entire plan for dealing with the rapture, should it come while I'm in Indiana and Annie is in Montana is to hope that I can strap enough stuff to my bike to make it to Montana while feeding off the land. I'm looking at various routes but it's hard to predict what will be blocked or destroyed and what wont. And if it happens after I'm out of Indiana or Annie is out of Ontana I figure I'll worry about it then. My only worry about the end of the world is that I wont be with my beloved to see the begining of the new world.
posted
(This could be pure Lutheran myth, but I think it’s still relevant.)
Someone once asked Martin Luther what he would do if God told him without a doubt that the world would end tomorrow. He answered, “I would plant a tree.”
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Life on this earth is a gift that we are granted for a short time and I think we are supposed to live it to its fullest.
Jesus I believe made it quite clear that worrying about things out of your control (and if anything qualifies as out of your control, the rapture does) is fruitless.
So I do plan for my kids future college education and a retirement, and continue to live my life as if I expect to be here an additional 50 years or so.
As for when I think it will be - I honestly do not know. I don't necessarily subscribe to beliefs that many things in the world are signs that point that the end is near but neither do I completely discount them. This is one area where I'm happy to let God be in control and not worry about it.
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When I was little, I went through a phase where I believed that the sun was on the verge of exploding and that each day, it might happen. I drove my parens crazy for about three months. If I didn't die in the very beginning, I think it would be sort of fun.
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Skillery, while any of those is an okay hobby in its own right, I'm a little concerned that you would be interested in any of those things solely because you believed the end was near. Especially as it didn't include A. Bible Study and B. Koran Study, just in case.
Seriously, I rather suspect you are naturally drawn to these things and use the Rapture as a way of rationalizing your hobbies.
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TimeTim, tell me the fun part about the sun exploding. I have to say that I'm drawing a blank on that one.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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pooka along with the scripture study, you need to include scripture memorization of whatever scripture you believe in, as much of it as you can. Because then when the end of the world is coming and your chosen belief system is under attack and all of your scriptures are confiscated and burned you have it written in your heart.
(Yes I have heard a children's Bible lesson conducted on this point before.)
quote:use the Rapture as a way of rationalizing your hobbies
You're probably right. For instance, I'm also interested in fast cars and boats, but I haven't been able to rationalize their purchase because they're not going to help me in the long run (no petrol).
I wish I could convince myself that the Waterworld scenario is a possibility. I would love to own that catamaran.
I wouldn't apply the word "dabbled" to my Bible study.
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I don't wanna sound like a jackass (which means i'm going to sound like a jackass), but it kind of disturbs me that so many of you are seriously planning for the rapture. Aside from the fact that no god I know of said "sit around and prepare for doom" I was just trying to convince my mom the other day that many religious folks are quite reasonable. I'm liberal but my mom is even more so, I was trying to convince her that the neocons in washington right now aren't a bunch of loonies trying to bring on the end of the world. Now i'm not so sure...
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I was pretty surprised to see that too Stark. Not exactly discomfited by it, but not exactly not either. I'm still kind of mulling the fact over.
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I believe it's coming as well, but I'm also investing in 401(k)s and Roth IRAs, keeping a good life insurance policy on myself, and trying to budget for future purchases. Letting our backyard go brown this summer had nothing to do with our fear of approaching calamities, honest. I plan to live a long life if at all possible and try to be flexible if changes come. I think it's the only practical thing to do.
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quote: but it kind of disturbs me that so many of you are seriously planning for the rapture
I think we've established that none of us are "seriously" planning for the rapture. Read the thread, you non-jackass. P.S. I guess the "non-jackass" remark should be pointed at ssywak and not Stark. Sorry Stark.
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I scared myself when I started talking about moving in with Bo Gritz . He was starting some private militia-community in Idaho. I pulled back from the brink when I considered what it would be like to attend church in that community. Who would be sitting on the rostrum on Sunday morning? Bo Gritz. And who put Bo Gritz on the rostrum? Bo Gritz. And to whom would I pay my offerings? Bo Gritz.
I did learn some cool conspiracy theory during that phase though. I've had to throw a lot of that crap away, but every once in awhile some of it gets verified. And that's scary.
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I was actually pretty confused about the issue of the rapture when I was in middle and high school. But then I heard the Newsboys' song Lights Out:
"last one turns the lights out, and makes sure every curtain's drawn nails the shutters shut, he's sure we are not of this world for long who do you think you are? did you figure out the date? what do you hope to do while you sit around and wait, wait, wait? last one turns the lights out, and disconnects the answer-phone stuffs all sense of mission, says "I just can't turn the tide alone" who do you think you are? did you figure out the time? what do you hope to do while you hide out and whine, whine, whine..."
Steve Taylor (one of the few Christian music artists I have any respect for) wrote the song. I don't know, but I learned all the theology I need to know through art... Posts: 1295 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Stark, another thing to consider is that while preparing for the rapture, or even the imminent end of the world may seem a little strange, these same preparations can be beneficial if an all-too possible natural disaster strikes, say if Mt. Ranier erupted, the San Andres fault finally became a schism, tornado, or even four hurricanes in as many weeks. In those instances, extra food and water, knowledge of how to survive without shelter, even an ability and knowledge of how to create and use munitions and track game can come in handy. So, while preparing for the rapture is one possibility, I also see it as a possibility to prepare for more mundane things.
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People whose opinion I respect think it will be in our lifetime, but part of why I respect their opinion is that they still plan for a full life, complete with 401k and retirement planning, life insurance, etc. This doesn't mean that they don't *really* believe that it might happen -- it means that they are also following what it says in Ecclesiastes, that we are still to plan for the future. That's what you do when God has provided you with much. You share, and you store against the winter and drought. ![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
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