posted
Banna, drawing also from our long conversation last night, it's because you're not the kind of person to define yourself by ideas and activities. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just that I could see it so clearly for Paul because I also partly define who I am by the things that matter to me.
I completely agree with Sopwith, and it was said much more clearly than I could have. And I also agree with ApostleRadio.
quote:Who are the rest of us to say that the people who feel as Paul does are too wrapped up in baseball? We wrap ourselves just as tightly in things these others may see as trivial, but we expect them to respect our feelings.
Exactly.
There are a few different discussions going on. The one I'm most concerned with is the treatment of people who put their hearts out in a post on hatrack. And the idea that the way I live my life is stupid or wrong because I care deeply about some external object.
The other discussion is whether Paul overreacted, or reacted poorly. He did react poorly. It's not very nice to call someone names and say you're glad they're leaving. Personally, I'd apologize for losing my temper. Two wrongs don't make a right, and three wrongs certainly don't make a right. But in the same breath, I'm not going to say he overreacted. Because I'm not him, and I can't know what he feels.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Could somebody help explain something to me? This post is not meant as an attack, but I can't think of a way of saying it that couldn't be taken offensively if you want to.
I have been flabergasted at the comparison between professional sports and religion, and the support that this comparison has gotten.
I can understand somebody saying "it's just a game" or "it's just entertainment", and I think that everybody can understand why somebody could feel that way.
But I can't see the opposite happening. "It's only the meaning of life", "It's only your immortal soul", or "It's only the nature and order of the universe" are things that I can't understand somebody honestly saying.
Am I missing something, or am just extending the baseball/religion past it's breaking point, and past the point it was meant for?
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Porter, I think you are extending it too far, but you’re also missing something. For someone who doesn’t believe in religion, religion isn’t about the meaning of life, your immortal soul, or the nature and order of the universe. It’s about social behavior, shared stories, fellowship with people who share the same values, etc. And that’s if they’re being charitable in their interpretation. There are those who think religion is about deluding yourself, trying to use the superstitions of others to gain power and influence, and other unsavory motivations. And Paul is correct to say that any of those opinions could be appropriately shared on a discussion/debate thread, but that they would be entirely inappropriate in a celebration thread.
To someone who doesn’t believe in a particular religion, it has no more intrinsic worth than any other leisure time activity.
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posted
As a huge sports fan that follows all four major sports plus World Cup Soccer, plus I used to follow the MLS before before the Miami Fusion were disbanded, plus I followed (now I'm bored with it) men's tennis, plus collegiate football, basketball, and baseball I always thought of the comparison between religion and sports to be an exaggeration. I can understand how some people can pay $10K to see, I can understand how people may cry when their team loses. I can't understand how it can be so meaningful as to affect you even when the team isn't playing. I understand the concept of getting emotionally tied to a team, but its seriously unhealthy to take it to too far of an extreme. In baseball I will always consider a successful season to be a playoff birth so to me, the "curse" was kind of funny, the Red Sox after all had won multiple WS titles prior to 1918 and had been to the series four times since. The Cubs haven't even been to the WS in forever and fans of that team say they would be happy just to get there. I personally like the Cubs fans' attitude better. Personally I just think there's a problem when someone can become hated from something they post in a sports thread, to me there's something inherently wrong with that. I can imagine someone being rude, disrespectful, or even "crossing the line" but you really need to take everything involving sports with a little levity.
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quote: No one could possibly understand the depths of you. But you presume to know everything about me because you saw a painting of mine and you ripped my f'in life apart. You're an orphan right? Do you think I'd know the first thing about how hard your life has been, how you feel, who you are because I read Oliver Twist? Does that encapsulate you?
posted
See I can take that with levity. I don't consider myself a huge "homer" as opposed to a sports fan because I only stopped watching MLS because they disbanded the Fusion which made me angry, I actually watched the MLS the two years before the Fusion came to Ft. Lauderdale. I also still follow sports that my favorite team is no longer competitive in. I just follow them somewhat less because it is less exciting.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Not that I disagree, myself, but who the hell am I to tell someone there favorite thing isn't really that important?
I may think that, but unless they go too far with it, as I think Paul may have here, then it is none of my business what matters to them.
It may not be healthy, as Squick pointed out, but not everything I do is always healthy....and I don't really care what anyone else says about my habits, not here at least...
My bigest concern is that I like Paul, and pooka....not that I really know either if them well....but if this were to continue the way it statred then there was a possibility that someone could have been banned, and I didn't want that to happen.
I am not saying that anyone should be, but had it continued, well....
I think everyone overreacted to it, not because it is a minor issue, but because the peopson amking the comments should not have mattered to this conversation.
Pooka has been quite clear about her distain of sports, so why should any sport fan care what she posted here?
Why should pooka get worked up about what an athiest says about her religion?
Getting irritated is one thing....repetedly attacking each other was simply immature. It solved nothing, and didn't amke anyone feel any better....and turned the atmosphere here at Hatrack icky.
So.....bring on the fluff, I have had enough of the "celebration" and "debate" threads for now...
posted
Bring on the fluff, bring on the fluff, Bring it on me baby, I can't get enuff. I'm a rock 'em, sock 'em too tall Jones, And I'ma rocka this mic-a all on my own.
posted
I heard the fluff call, Strode up into the hall, Now it's timez fo' my rimez, Gettin crazy wit the ladiez, Uzin' z's like e's I'm a chez-white-Tz
posted
My husband always says he's Catholic. He's Catholic because his family was Catholic. He's a Slovak Catholic American. So I believe the Catholic part is part of his nationality.
Football is his religion of choice. His beliefs walk the line a bit. He's also a worshipper of Hockey, Basketball and Baseball. I’ve even caught him praying to the God of NASCAR a time or two.
Ask him anything about the bible and you'll draw a blank. Ask him anything about football...then you're really asking for it. He will be able to preach for hours.
quote: I have been flabergasted at the comparison between professional sports and religion, and the support that this comparison has gotten.
I can understand somebody saying "it's just a game" or "it's just entertainment", and I think that everybody can understand why somebody could feel that way.
But I can't see the opposite happening. "It's only the meaning of life", "It's only your immortal soul", or "It's only the nature and order of the universe" are things that I can't understand somebody honestly saying.
Am I missing something, or am just extending the baseball/religion past it's breaking point, and past the point it was meant for?
You're missing something. You're missing the fact that the amount of faith and love and belief that you put into your hobby, being religion, is the same amount that sports fans put into their own hobby, being sports.
Mind you, I'm not really into either of those hobbies. ^^
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
While it may appear to some that religion is a hobby to the believer, to the person who believes strongly it is part of absolute reality. I don't see how any other hobby can compare--even to the person to whom it is important. In other words, I don't see how any hobby can be as important to the hobbyist as religion is to a strong believer. But perhaps this represents a lack of understanding on my part of just how important a hobby can be to a person. Perhaps because I can't imagine any hobby in my life comparing to my perspective on religion.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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I could not disagree more strenuously. My faith is a part of my daily life - it affects how I look at the world and how I react to it. Religious faith is not the showing up on Sundays to sing and visit with your friends. It's not a weekly event, like a football game is.
It's a 24 hour a day, 365 days a year commitment to live and walk according to the will of God to the best of your ability - and that is a far cry from watching and appreciating a baseball game.
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quote: You're missing something. You're missing the fact that the amount of faith and love and belief that you put into your hobby, being religion, is the same amount that sports fans put into their own hobby, being sports.
I guess that's the problem. I just can't believe that this is true.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Tom, The difference between church and baseball is this. At a ballgame, the hot dog is on a bun and costs about 4 dollars. At church, the hot dog is free, and is cut up and mixed with beans.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Well I would rather be a sports fanatic than a religious fanatic. I actually agree with Paul. Sports is more real to him than God will ever be. Have a cry and get on with it people. I roll my eyes at people who a very religious but I never tell them to go get a life (sometimes wish I could) because they will probably tell me I'm going to hell or something. Hehe
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posted
stacy - all evidence suggests it is the sports fans who react most badly and most violently to being told their pursuit is pointless.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
No. The evidence shows that one sports fan reacted this way, though others acknowledged being annoyed.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Well I would rather be a religious fanatic than a sports fanatic. I actually agree with pooka. God is more real to her than sports will ever be. Have a cry and get on with it people. I roll my eyes at people who are so involved in sports but I never tell them to go get a life (sometimes wish I could) because they will probably tell me I'm a bitch or something. Hehe
Note: The content of this post does not necessarily reflect the mindset of the poster. Thank you. Have a nice day.
That is made all the more funny because I hear you saying it in an imitation of my sister's voice. (Given that that's who you're parodying.)
Posts: 1431 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
hehe, beverly the thing is that you and me both said that we wouldn't tell those fanatics to get a life where as pooka did.
Kathrina - Would you mind me telling you that whatever thing you are very very interested in was pointless and that it's pretty stupid spending all that time on it? You would probably like to think that you wouldn't react like Paul, but it would hurt wouldn't it? Sports is a personal thing for some people and I think it is fine to compare them to religion and even children. Some people are that fanatic about them. Get a life? I imagine Paul has one, a life that baseball is very much a part of.
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posted
Pursuit of at least the vast majority of religions is pointless. Most of them are mutually exclusive.
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posted
I would like to second Imogen. dkw, you summed up the whole business succinctly and beautifully, for me, anyway. Really, it is all about respecting someone else's reality, even if you don't understand it.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Stacy, you and Danzig covered it already just on this page.
Yes, it's irritating, and terribly rude. It would be nice if there was an apology.
---
I never said Paul didn't - I love hobbies. I dress up for movies and throw Harry Potter parties and, might I add, post on Hatrack. Be accurate at least when you accuse me of things.
posted
I feel the need to speak up for pooka because I consider her my friend and she is not currently here. What she meant to be a joke fell flat and exploded into something she didn't intend or forsee.
I just want to remind y'all that she did apologize and that she genuninely regrets what she said--especially in that it hurt people.
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