posted
Okay. A distant relative of mine died last week. These are people that I’ve supposedly met as a small child, but I don’t know them. I’ve never spoken to them that I remember, but they remember me from when I was little. My mother called and gave me this man’s widow’s phone number and said, “You should call her.”
I told her no offense, but I didn’t really want to call this lady that I do not know. I had barely even heard her name before this instance. It would be obviously contrived for me to call her, since I would have never spoken to her before that day. I didn’t see any reason for me to call her. I don’t even think the man that died was technically related to me by blood. They are basically strangers.
So 24 hours later I get a call from Mom, saying that she told Kathleen I wanted to call her and that Mom had given me her number. She made it sound like I had asked for the number in my concerned state. She told me that Kathleen was looking forward to my call.
There’s no way I would have called this woman on my own terms. I am sorry she lost her husband but she wouldn’t even have known who I was if I had called and said, “This is Maureen.” I would have to explain whose child I was, and all that stuff. But now I feel obligated to call because I don’t want this poor lady to be expecting my call and be disappointed when I don’t.
This wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t a pattern. Mom always does stuff like this to me. I know that if I call this woman, Mom will see that her technique still works and continue to use it in the future. However, if I don’t call she will likely never use it again because she doesn’t like to be made to look bad. She doesn’t like to be considered a liar.
So not calling would probably get me out from Mom’s thumb somewhat, but it would also leave a sad lady who doesn’t really need any more sadness. Calling would make Kathleen a little happier, but it will guarantee that Mom will do this to me again, or even worse.
posted
It is a formal call of condolence, one of life's unpleasant duties. I think it is appalling that your mother still has manipulate you into doing unpleasant grown-up tasks. It shows that you still need a mother very much. Make the call and do your best to offer sincere sympathy and then go grow up a bit.
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posted
So can I assume that you make sure to call people down the street that you don't even know when they have unfortunate events?
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posted
PSI, ignore him... he's proven himself to be immature and insensitive in more threads than one. He doesn't deserve your attention.
Your situation is a tough one... I don't know what to tell you. I think I would make the call, but I think you need to have a talk with your mother. Tell her that this is what she's doing, and how much it's bothering you. But I agree that now it's a bit late not to call Kathleen... I'm sorry.
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posted
Ah, thanks Raia. I had not had the pleasure of making meeting Jar Head yet.
Your advice is good. I'm considering it. In other words, I am beating myself mentally to force myself to do this thing. : )
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posted
If what your mother said was true, you probably need to call because now she is expecting your call. However, a short "We were so sorry to hear about your loss, where can I send flowers." would be sufficient. Then do send some card or flowers.
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posted
My major concern here is that talking to my mother does not work. Yelling, screaming, ignoring, being sweet, being respectful...none of those things phase her as long as you're doing what she wants. I can talk to her all I want and she'll smile and say, "I'll consider that. I never thought about it like that before. Thanks for telling me." and she's really nice about it, but next time she will do the exact same thing. That's what's frustrating about her. She acts like she's listening. It would be easier if she would argue, because then I wouldn't have to feel so bad about not answering her calls and things.
I'm calling Kathleen. But at this point I think I need advice on how to get away from my mother.
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posted
Don't tell your mother that you called, and if she asks, tell her you will not be manipulated into anything and she shouldn't have spoken for you. She won't talk to the woman to make sure you called, right?
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posted
My parents are divorced, partly because she pulled the same crap on him. He's been trying to get her to stop for the past twenty-five years.
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posted
The title of this thread implies you don't resent your mother's handling of things enough to want it to stop completely. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Ouch. I'd send a card, and mention that you are sorry for her loss, and leave it at that. If this poor lady is upset you didn't call, it's not your fault, it's your mom's. If your mom brings it up to you, it's the perfect time to ask her not to do that again.
It's rough, but you have to be firm. Tell her that you value having a continued relationship with her, but it won't happen if she doesn't stop trying to manipulate you. Be pretty straight with her; it's better to get this over with now than have a lifetime of hurt. *knows from experience*
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posted
*grin* You, of course, always always welcome and it's great to ask for advice for things, but I think independence is one of the things that will only happen when you want it enough to not ask for permission for it from anyone.
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posted
PSI, I doubt Kathleen is sitting waiting for your call - as you said, she doesn't know you, and you're not likely to be at the top of her thoughts right now. In similar situations I dreaded hearing from people with a similar or even less remote relationship than you have. Speaking on the phone was difficult - talking to strangers even more so.
I would send a nice condolence card, so Kathleen can know you have sympathy without having to "perform" when you call her.
Tell your mother what you did, and emphasize that any awkwardness that might occur is the direct result of your mother's lying (you can pick a less combative term if you want).
The only way out of this is to simply let your mother refuse to obligate you, and the only way to do that is to do what you would have done absent her interference. This means sometimes doing what she's attempting to manipulate you to do, if that's what you would have done. It also means letting your mother bear the brunt of any confusion that results when you don't follow her lead.
If someone ever says, "I thought you were going to do X," simply say, "I don't know why my mother told you that." It's rough, but you have to rely on your own judgment. Otherwise, you will eventually cause someone unintended pain in a situation where you knew better than your mother.
Dagonee Edit: ketchupqueen is wise, and a faster typer than I.
posted
Rather than calling this Kathleen (who, face it, doesn't know you either, and probably would appreciate your call but is hardly going to be devastated if you don't), call your mother and say "Mom, I honestly don't know why you do this. But this time, I'm not doing it. I don't know this woman, and while I am sympathetic, I have nothing of any value to say to her. If you'd like to give me her address, I'd be happy to send her a card. In the meantime, please don't commit me for anything in the future without consulting me first, because I guarantee I will not do it. Even if I would have wanted to do it had you consulted me." Then stick to your guns.
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posted
See, I generally try to do what I would have done anyway, but I felt bad for Kathleen. I really don't know how she'll feel if I don't call. I can't imagine that she'd get any benefit from it. I'd hate for her to think I was the one lying though.
quote: I think independence is one of the things that will only happen when you want it enough to not ask for permission for it from anyone.
I don't see that I'm asking permission. I was trying to figure out if it was worth it to hurt the lady to achieve that end. I see a difference.
posted
I'll bet Kathleen forgot that part of the conversation 30 seconds after it happened. She's definitely not waiting around for you to call her. This is a much bigger deal to you and your mom than to her, I think.
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posted
I think the condolence card is a much better idea than a call to someone you don't know. I agree with the others who said that Kathleen really won't miss a call from you, but will really appreciate a note.
I don't much care for speaking to anyone on the phone when I'm really upset.
posted
What a tough situation.... I don't know how you are with awkward situations with total- or near- strangers, but I would definitely send a card. Or can you leave a message when you know she'll be out (like at the wake or funeral)?
The really difficult thing I'm getting about the situation with your mother is that there are no other people close enough to give you additional insight (or to help take the pressure off). Good luck.
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posted
I'm going to go with Dag's suggestion. Make a gesture of sympathy to Kathleen in your choice of formats - card, call, whatever - because that is appropriate given the circumstances. I'm not sure if I would confront Mom and tell her what you did or if I would just drop it until Mom brings it up again (and I get the feeling from your posts that she will).
Since both your father and you have been trying to deal with this behavior from her for your entire life, it's fairly apparent that she will never change. I might suggest complete avoidance for a time and see if that makes any difference at all. If nothing else, it would reduce your immediate stress level from her telling you what to do as if you don't know what needs to happen. At best, she may realize that things ahve changed and maybe be open to a real discussion of what's wrong.
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posted
You don't know that she doesn't remember you. Apparently your mom does know, I'd go with that; sidebaring any stupid feelings about your mom, none of that matters. Do you know how people are after family members die? You should seriously call her and talk to her anyways. I haven't known people that knew me when I was little, and MAN did it excite them to see how I was doing, and just to talk to them for 5-10 minutes. Five to ten minutes isn't a life sentance, and quite frankly I agree with JarHead.
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posted
I do know what family members are like after people die, and I was forced to talk to people I didn't know and put on a charade where I pretended to care when a random stranger who was never around when they were alive pretended to be sad they were gone. A card is fine, and that would be lovely.
posted
I'd go with Trevor's advice. Call the lady, but don't give your mother opportunity to pull this again. Tell her if she attempts to manipulate you again, you're perfectly willing to sever ties of communication with her.
Honestly, I see little reason for filial gratitude here. A parent is supposed to do what is best for their child, and this kind of manipulation doesn't fill her end of the bargain. If she tries to pull the guilt card, just remember that.
Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Of course your mother told you Kathleen was looking forward to the call. She said it for one of two reasons -- as additional manipulation (my first guess) or because Kathleen is a very polite person and what else would she said about the child of someone she's talking to? What else would she say but "I'm looking forward to the call." That doesn't mean she even remembers the conversation now. I would definately go with the card. You can say something kind without putting pressure on her to have a conversation with someone she doesn't know. It also establishes your independence. And when Mom asks if you called or tries to manipulation you into other things always put it back on her. "Why would you think I would do that?" "Why would I bother someone I don't know?" "Why would you ask me such a personal question?" Then her motive (and her inappropriate behavior and rudeness)rather than your compliance are the topic of the conversation.
posted
Jar Head and rav, I disagree; I definitely know what family members are like after someone dies (unfortunately, I have had some very recent experience with the death of my fourteen year old cousin), and I know that people have other things on their mind. While I think that since her mom promised, PSI should do it this time, I don't think that you should be brushing the matter off like this. Today was my cousin's funeral, and several people came up to give me hugs and say "You don't remember me, I knew you when you were this tiny little redhead!! I'm so sorry for your loss, and this is a bad time to meet new people." While they acknowledged that it was a difficult time for everyone to start trying to remember each other, it still got very frustrating when I was crying, and people came up and said "Oh my goodness! Last time I saw you, you were four!", especially when you're clueless as to who this person is.
I think PSI should make the call, but I think she needs to talk to her mother... though with what she said about that not succeeding, I'm sorry dear, I wish I could help you figure out what to do... but I wish you luck in making her stop that, it's really manipulation that shouldn't be tolerated.
(Btw, I hope that post was coherent, my cousin's wedding today, and I can barely see through my tears... I don't know what I'm saying. It probably didn't make a whole lot of sense, but I hope my point came across alright.)
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I have been a grown man longer then you have been complete chromosome set. I do not take a poll to know what to do, I have my own yard stick. Until you have the personal strength to muck out the stalls, shoot the sick dog, and stand up to the bullies never question my maturity.
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Maturity is not all about age... once you prove yourself somewhere to have something sensible to say, maybe I'll change my mind. I don't care that I'm younger than you. I pity you that you need a teenager to tell you the truth.
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posted
Honestly, her telling you you are immature IS standing up to the bullies, and age is no determiner of maturity.
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I don't. You haven't. Don't make me be insensitive, I can't take another Raia hug-fest. My condolences on the loss of your cousin.
I also note that your last post agrees with the course of action I outlined. If the action I arrived at is the same how can you disdain it? or were you reacting in that childish knee jerk way because some of us trivialized your bully issue? How mature is that?
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posted
If I am a bully to you then you have never faced anything close to the real deal, I mearly have a different opinion. There must be better then this here! These are the lovers of the man who wrote Ender's Game!
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posted
You know what, I can't respond to that now... I'll probably say something I'll regret later. My emotions are a little frenzied today.
There probably is far better than me here, let those people all jump at your throat as you deserve, I'm outta here.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Jar Head... you're only proving her point hotshot. Being that you are an immature a-hole. The way you talk I have serious difficulty believing that you are a grown man. There's nothing I can see on the net to prove that to me aside from the way you post, and the way you post comes far closer to the typical over confident teenage boy who thinks he's hot stuff cause he can kick butt at Counter Strike (I've seen a lot of these) than the mature inteligent adults who make up the majority of the posters on this board.
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
It's probably because you told psi to grow up a bit. Many people have said to go ahead and call or write a letter, but you are the only one who was so rude as to suggest that psi was immature because she was put into an awkward position by her mother.
Apparently, you are the one who needs to grow up if you would still allow your mother to manipulate you and not say anything about it.
And you are being a bully. Many people have had differing opinions on what to do here, but only you told her to grow up. (In my head, it sounded a little more like, "Suck it up, you wussie. Quit you're bitching, be a man and do what you know you should do. Kids today. It kind of made me wonder if you had to walk 3 miles in the snow to school, uphill both ways. Could you buy a loaf of bread and bologna for a quarter?
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I never said she should let her mother manipulate her, I said that a grown-up would have done it without the manipulation. Remember she was asked first then manipulated.
As to kicking someone when they are down, well what is the point of getting them down in the first place if you are going to help them up?
However the truth is that I never put Raia down, if she is down then it would be best if she not pick fights until she is able to handle them. Attacking a person while you are down is just not bright.
Don't start nothing, won't be nothing as we truckers like to say.
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I don't know what to tell you. I think I would make the call, but I think you need to have a talk with your mother. Tell her that this is what she's doing, and how much it's bothering you. But I agree that now it's a bit late not to call Kathleen... I'm sorry.
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It kind of made me wonder if you had to walk 3 miles in the snow to school, uphill both ways. Could you buy a loaf of bread and bologna for a quarter?
