posted
Las Night I went to the 9:10 showing of The Incredibles.... it was good... So afterwards I left, and was heading towards the Highway. I was on west third and I had to stop at the light (at the top of the ramp). I waited for my Turn Arrow, I got it, I started (my car was still in first gear, also something that was in the field report) and was T-boned by another jeep who was going about 45MPH (according to the field report). He swears up and down that he had a green light and that I never even slowed down for the light. I swear, I had a turn signal, he had to have been running a red light. Any ways, my jeep, was totaled, as in the frame had been broken and my passenger seat, along with my "trunk" (what do you call the equivalent of a trunk in a jeep?) were only held to the rest of the car by some sheet metal. The other guys front was torn up, but no major frame damage (but his engine block was more or less dragging on the ground). a sheriff's deputy came up the ramp, just as the two vehicles were coming to a stop. He called an ambulance for me and also called the city police (whom have jurisdiction over that intersection). I called my dad (who is pissed about the jeep, but was more concerned with the fact that when he arrived i was arguing with the Ambulance, on wether or not I had to go to the hospital.) but ya, so as i was discussing that with the paramedics and my father (who signed the release forms and then took me to the hospital himself), while the other driver was being arrested for his 3 outstanding warrants (i don't know what these were for). His vehicle was not registered yet (he just bought it, or so he says), it had plates from another car on it. He gave an insurance company name, and showed his card, but if the vehicle didn't have the registration, I'm kinda wondering if he had insurance on it. so ya, bottom line my jeep is into pieces, I'm doped up on pain killers (nothing broken, just a bump on the head and massive bruising to my ribs), and i feel rather guilty, because the other guy went to jail (he was kinda nice, a senile old redneck, but rather civil)...
So here is my question, Lets assume that he is covered by insurance, since there were no witnesses, who's word will the insurance companies go be, a 17 year old, or an older gentleman with outstanding warrants and no vehicle registration?
P.S. I apologize for grammar and spelling mistakes, they gave me loritabs, so I'm kinda loopy right now.
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
When I was eighteen and living in Bloomington, I was T_boned by a delivery truck driver on the square (down on 5th St.) My convertible was completely totaled. It wound up being my word against his; I insisted that I had proceeded on the green, while he insisted that HE had the green coming down the hill. Luckily, I had a passenger who was ALSO with me, and we both recalled that I stopped and waited for the green. Since forensics made it obvious that I'd only managed to accelerate to about ten miles an hour when I was struck, they concluded that I had in fact stopped and assigned him the majority of the blame. (My insurance company still took a portion of the blame, as it was decided that I should have made sure he was stopping before continuing into the intersection -- which is true.)
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I didn't see that happen, but I came up right after it did! I thought everyone from our group was behind me or I would have stopped (I was going to stop because there was nobody there helping yet, but by the time I got turned around, being unable to turn, the sheriff's car was there so I didn't feel the need to).
And I agree, that you were in first gear means you had stopped, and that you were stopped before going means your story is pretty solid (particularly as he was speeding by a decent chunk).
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I have Liability coverage, so if some how, it ends up legally being my fault, then I'm covered, but thats all I can afford (being 17 with very little "real work" to do). I have to say, I'm glad i was in the jeep, if i was in the car that I had been driving before i received my beloved jeep for Xmas, I no dought would not have walked away from the.
I know that my personal health is more important than the jeep, but that jeep was my only transportation up to wisconsin. you see I was going to go "meet my Girl Friend" for the first time on January 14th and then go to Sara Sasse's for the day to be Ircuras's "life line". but now, neither of those things are going to happen...
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
FWIW, I'll make another plug for keeping a disposable camera in the glove compartment and snapping a few pictures as soon as you think about it. I'm serious -- I've twice been hit and had the person who hit me first move their car ("to get out of traffic") and then claim I hit them. I was not at fault either time, but it was infuriating. Luckily there were skid marks, etc, to corroborate my story, but sometimes there aren't.
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
The insurance company has to cover the other driver's negligence, but they don't need to concede his negligence to you. You will have to negotiate. It's not just the Jeep, it's also your medical bills. And one day after the accident, you can't know what those will be.
I'm not sure you want a lawyer yet, because if the insurance company is reasonable, you'll just lose a bunch of your settlement in fees. But for sure you don't want to sign anything unless you're POSITIVE the check covers all your damages - car, medical bills now and later, lost wages, future pain and suffering if there are permanent injuries, etc.).
Ultimately, if the insurance company won't pay, the question of who is at fault is up to the jury, and will be decided on credibility. Unfortunately, the arrest is unlikely to come in unless it was about something relevant. Even his driving record isn't strictly relevant, although a good lawyer should be able to find a way to get it in.
For now, I'd make sure you contact your insurance company. If they think they can get the other insurance company to pay, you can bet they'll take action. If the other company doesn't pay, they're on the hook for it. So their incentives on this line up with yours, at least a little bit.
The critical thing is to be sure what you (and your parents) sign and say to any insurance company. If you do need to get a lawyer in the future, you don't want him hampered by a release.
posted
Hey, you never know. My convertible was literally an ashtray -- all that remained was the two seats in front; everything else was a compressed accordion of metal -- and my insurance company had me in another car within two days.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I missed the part where you only have liability coverage. That changes things, and puts you at an initial disadvantage with the other driver's insurance company. Still, it's worth seeing if they'll do the right thing.
Be glad you're all right, though. That's what's critical.
posted
Bloomington Indiana... about 6 hours from Amanda and 7 from you...
I My insurance Company looked at both vehicles this morning, but i haven't herd anything from them since i called about 2 am last night.
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote: But for sure you don't want to sign anything unless you're POSITIVE the check covers all your damages - car, medical bills now and later, lost wages, future pain and suffering if there are permanent injuries, etc.).
...
The critical thing is to be sure what you (and your parents) sign and say to any insurance company. If you do need to get a lawyer in the future, you don't want him hampered by a release.
Underlined and double-bolded. Sign nothing, whether it is a written document or a check -- from anybody -- until you've talked it over with at least one savvy adult. You know the type of person I mean -- somebody who knows how the world works and who is smart and tough enough that nobody would take advantage of him or her. Someone with street smarts and real-life experience.
The other insurance company will probably call soon to take a statement from you over the phone (IIRC -- correct, Dag?). I wonder if it wouldn't be wise to hold off on that statement until it is clear which way the wind is blowing.
Have you talked to your own insurance company yet?
And by the way, avoid at all costs the phrasing "when I hit him" or anything remotely similar, even if you are describing how he hit you, your car spun around, and then part of your car hit his. Never ever ever use that wording without discussing it with your own lawyer -- always phrase it "when he hit me." (This was advice from my own savvy grown-up, who worked as a claims adjuster.)
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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Mr. Opera was in an accident last year similar to the one Tom described. Though he had a passenger in the car, and the police officer admitted that his version of events was most probably the accurate one it did not turn out as we hoped. We went ahead and paid the deductible to get our truck fixed, and did not receive anything from the other person's insurance company.
posted
How does liability coverage put me at a disadvantage? Is it because I'm not carrying more insurance, or something else?
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
JT, you should be able to get a replacement before then. Regardless, we'll try really hard to work it out.
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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It's be nice to have a replacement by then... but wether the replacement is a sound enough vehicle that i'd trust it for that drive or not is kinda up in the air... I'm checking the blue book value on my jeep right now...
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:How does liability coverage put me at a disadvantage? Is it because I'm not carrying more insurance, or something else?
It's not the liability coverage that hurts, it's the lack of comprehensive. If your insurance company had to pay to replace the Jeep, then they'd be looking to get someone else to pay. They would be advocating on their own behalf, but their advocacy would be on the same issue you care about.
If the other guy sues you claiming you're responsible, you're insurance company will defend you. But being non-negligent yourself doesn't guarantee anyone will find him negligent.
quote:The other insurance company will probably call soon to take a statement from you over the phone (IIRC -- correct, Dag?). I wonder if it wouldn't be wise to hold off on that statement until it is clear which way the wind is blowing.
I don't know the mechanics, but JT will have to give a statement to the other insurance company in order to get reimbursed. Get a copy of the police report, and make sure you tell the same story. Don't go word for word from that, though, because it might look suspicious. Sara's advice on wording is very good.
posted
Yes, the absolute first thing you must do is get a copy of the police report. Read it and see how the police officer filled out the paperwork.
If the insurance company calls before you have that chance, just tell them that you're heavily medicated right now and don't think it's a good time to give your statement you'll call them when you feel more up to it.
That's not lying, and no one should expect you to make a statement of such import under the influence of painkillers.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Very, very good point Belle. No giving statements while doped up.
Being able to give the statement in writing is probably best, anyway. Then you won't get taken in by a person who's job is to make you comfortable enough that you say more than you should.
Edit: The key thing to remember is that EVERYTHING you say about the accident to ANYONE is admissible against you by the other side, assuming they can find out about it.
posted
What I meant was that I would decline making a statement until you have some sense of what your injuries are going to be like long-term. At least wait until tomorrow.
Huh. I see your point about comprehensive, Dag. Maybe it would be a good idea to speak to a lawyer, do you think? I know some of my legal friends believed "no fee until you are paid" firms to be unethical, as they tended to charge a higher amount overall than fee-for-service, but in the case where the other guy might not have any coverage, that might be a good way to go.
Maybe he should wait to find out from his company whether the other guy really is covered by any insurance first? Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
OK, so no statement till i see the complete report, I can handle that.
I just checked the Kelly Blue Book Value on my jeep and it's $1450... so, getting equal replacement (as far as quality goes) may be an issue, especially if the other guys insurance doesn't pick up the full bill.
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:If the insurance company calls before you have that chance, just tell them that you're heavily medicated right now and don't think it's a good time to give your statement you'll call them when you feel more up to it.
That's not lying, and no one should expect you to make a statement of such import under the influence of painkillers.
Smart, smart, savvy Belle.
When I caution about the language you use, I don't mean -- at all! -- to tell you to lie. It's just that once you enter the realm of law, certain words and phrases have very specific meaning. That is, you may mean one thing when you say them, but the words can be taken out of context or otherwise interpreted in a way other than you intended.
This is why it is good to have your own legal counsel. Bad enough when it is just a fender-bender, but this sounds like some serious damage was incurred. People are going to be behaving in their own best interest (i.e., not necessarily yours -- the driver, his insurance company, even your insurance company) all over the place.
quote:Being able to give the statement in writing is probably best, anyway. Then you won't get taken in by a person who's job is to make you comfortable enough that you say more than you should.
Yep. Here is the time where you must be cynical. People are paid to be able to lie to you and use you effectively without your knowing it. Unfortunate, but true. Doesn't mean they necessarily will, but ... trust nobody, unless you have a very tight reason to do so. (e.g., he's my dad who loves me, he's the lawyer who's paid -- and who's butt is on the line to do a good job -- to have my best interests at heart)
No getting taken in by shiny happy faces.
[oops -- accidentally left Dag's name at the bottom]
[ January 06, 2005, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I may be wrong about this, but I thought that if you have an accident where one person has outstanding arrest warrants, it automatically makes it that person's fault, since they aren't even supposed to be out on the street.
I remember that an aquaintance *witnessed* an accident, stuck around to help out and ended up going to jail because he had an outstanding warrant for his arrest, which came to light when he was making an eyewitness statement to the police.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
jeniwren - Having an outstanding warrant doesn't automatically make you at fault for an auto accident. I was involved in an accident with a person who had a warrant out for his arrest. They still determined the accident to be my fault (though I think it should have been his for illegally passing).
Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
My insurance is with Farm Beau ( i hate my spelling and my spell checks lack of a definition).
I know, there were several hatrackers less than a quarter mile away, but don't worry abut that, I'm ok, but i just got the pictures from my insurance agent, and I'm not real sure how i walked away from it. But i did.
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
well, sence i cant find the hug thread or reach you on IM here is a big hug ((((((((((((((stryker)))))))))))))))))
Posts: 264 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:I swear, I had a turn signal, he had to have been running a red light.
In addition to what others have said, it is important to never waver in your description of what happened. If even once you say to a lawyer or insurance person that you "think" you had a turn light rather than you "know" that you had a turn light, you will be at a disadvantage. Always be completely confident. Listening to another guy swear up and down that he is right can easily be a blow to your confidence, so just don't let it get to you.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
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posted
Most insurance companies aren't really trying to trip you up in your story. If you are in a no-fault state, it doesn't even matter who caused the crash. I don't know Indiana's laws, but my guess is that you'll be just fine.
It'll take awhile for the crash report to become available. You'll want a copy of it for your records. If you disagree with anything in there, the sooner you bring it to the Police Department's attention, the better.
Hopefully, the officer did a thorough job. Given that you were being transported for medical treatment, the likelihood of a higher-quality report is improved. The fact that you were coherent enough to argue about it and be transported by your father means they probably would take it less seriously however. If they think it's just a property damage crash (ultimately) or very minor injury, they tend to slack off.
Given that they were also processing an arrest on several outstanding warrants, I suspect the crash part of the investigation probably got short shrift.
Here's what to look for though: 1) Which vehicle is listed as Vehicle 1? If it's the other guy's, that's a good indication that the officer thought he caused the crash. Not 100% reliable, but a good indicator in MOST departments.
2) Read the narrative and look at the diagram. Read any witness statements too (if there are any). These will show you which vehicle the officer thought had the right of way, if he could determine it from the facts and the scene.
3) Did the officer cite you? If not, that's at least a good indication that he thought you hadn't done anything to cause the crash. Or didn't want to have to swear to it in court if you challenged the citation.
4) Did the officer cite the other guy? Look at the statutes or text descriptions of the violations in that section of the crash report. If there are any moving violations (running red light. Speeding. Failure to yield) then it's clear that the officer is calling the other guy at fault. If the violations are ONLY for the stuff you mentioned (like the wrong plates, unregistered, no insurance, etc.) then it's indeterminate.
Finally, it's probable this guy has no insurance and no resources. People with resources don't go around swapping plates and making up stories about how they just got their car, etc. It might all be true, but it sounds fishy.
Basically, I suspect that you're about to find out what many of us do -- our vehicles are underinsured and the deductible amount is a pain. But it's still better than having to pay for a new car outright.
By the way, if the insurance company offers to find you a replacement vehicle that is the equivalent of yours, be VERY VERY careful. They go only by blue book value and aren't going to research whether the thing has been well taken care of or not.
Best advice is to take the money and get something else.
By the way, why a Jeep? Do you need that kind of thing for the driving you do or did you have it just because it was cheap or already in the family?
I recommend taking the money and getting as new a vehicle as you can afford (with all the modern safety devices) but look into the crash tests as well.
Good luck! I hope that you don't have any medical complications, especially.
quote:Most insurance companies aren't really trying to trip you up in your story.
My family's direct experience with this has left me more cynical.
My sister was stopped at a light, and hit from behind by a propane truck going 45 miles an hour. It took 4 years to get them to agree to cover everything.
My other sister was rear ended in a stop and go situation on the Interstate. They denied her claim initially, pretty much for no reason. I think it was a nuisance rejection to see if she'd go away.
quote: By the way, why a Jeep? Do you need that kind of thing for the driving you do or did you have it just because it was cheap or already in the family?
The jeep was a christmas present frommy parents, they got it for me partially because the price was right (the former owner was getting a divorce and didn't want his wife to have it), and partially because of the kind of driving i do around the farm (unkept/poorly kept private and county roads).
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Sure, they'll try to dodge paying. But they aren't really interested in the story behind the crash in most states. Basically, if they don't have a sense that you've done something purposefully negligent, they usually just aren't interested in the circumstances.
As an industry, they pretty much aren't very friendly, though. I've had great experiences with USAA and Geico, but every other one of them I've ever dealt with have been slow to pay and would simply try to pay as little as possible.
I know a guy who was an expert in assigning values to classic cars for insurance purposes. He told me about a few little gimmicks that claims adjusters have in their arsenal. It's pretty nasty stuff when you consider that some of the damage they overlook could cause a deadly flaw in the vehicle later.
If you ever have a car that will be repaired after a crash, make sure that you only take a preliminary settlement contingent on the body shop finding no hidden damage.
Anyway, what I meant to say is that the insurance company isn't going to question you on your "story" unless it is grossly inconsistent with the police report AND they have reason to suspect that you did something that would simply void your coverage (and thus let them off the hook).
Other than that, the story really doesn't determine how much you'll get paid. Your coverage amounts and categories do, though.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Even if you don't have comprehensive insurance, your state may have a minimum insurance requirement, which may include uninsured motorist insurance. Check it out.
Also, with regard to "no fault," payment for damage to the car may be based on whose fault it was, while medical expenses should be paid by your own insurance company. When you start recieving medical bills, call and tell them that your injuries were sustained in an accident and try to get them to send the bills to someone else; your insurance, the other guy, anybody but you. If they won't, then forward them to your own insurance company "for assistance." Even if you're not in a no fault state, they may just pay them. And if they don't pay them they may forward them to the other guy in the accident (Their letterhead is likely to get better results than if you forward them to the other guy yourself).
Whatever you do, don't pay any medical bills until you've completely exhausted any other options. If you do, they will just consider the matter "settled."
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Also if any of his warrants had resulted in a suspended license, or if he was driving uninsured and unregistered (not just not having it on him, but actually unregistered) in a lot of states it makes him at fault because he had no right to be on the road.
I know, I had that happen to me in someone elses car...it was unregistered and in insured.
Funny thing though....a Sears truck hit me, and 4 lawyers called me wanting to represent me even though I was driving illegally. I was rear-ended, you see, and they could smell the money, Sears being a big company and all.
I didn't sue, on the condition that they pay for the car in front of me, so my friend wouldn't be sued. Looking back, I probably should have sued....but it didn't feel right to me.
JenniK was in an accident, as a passenger, and even with a statement for the driver saying that she was at fault (she rear ended someone at a light) it took over 4 years to get her settlement. She was unable to continue her schooling, and had to have 2 bouts of physical therapy, and back surgery....
Without her lawyer we would have been screwed...he was worth every penny of the %40 he got payed, because he cost nothing up front. If we had to pay up front we would not have been able to.
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Looking back, I probably should have sued....but it didn't feel right to me.
