posted
Good Mother or Good Wife; Do I have to make a choice?
I'm posting under an alias because many of you know my husband and I don't want to bias anyone about him.
The other night, while the family was eating dinner, my eight year old and I were talking about how babies are fed while they're developing in utero. He asked if Adam and Eve had belly buttons. I explained that it depends on a person's beliefs and that some people believe that humans evolved from earlier life forms. These Evolutionists would say that Adam and Eve had belly buttons. Others believe that Adam was created by God, from the earth, fully formed and complete as a man and that Eve was made from one of Adam's bones. These Creationists would say that Adam and Eve didn't have belly buttons.
My husband then laughs and says, "Can you believe what a religious moron Sandy is? You'd think that anyone with a brain would know that evolution is a fact." He went on to talk about how she was willing to accept all the other natural sciences, but clung to this one fantasy.
My son looked at him and said, "Dad, why would you call Sandy a moron? That's her belief and you're judging her. Calling someone a moron isn't critical thinking, it's judgement. Right, Mom."
I agreed with my son and said that it would have been better for Dad to say that he didn't agree and that he didn't think that her beliefs were consistent, but that it's just his opinion. My husband got angry and said, "I could have said alot of words, but I decided to be efficient. 'Moron' was efficient."
I really want to be a good mom and raise kids that are bright and tolerant and passionate.
I want to be a good wife and not disagree with my husband in front of my kids.
How can I be both?
Posts: 7 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
You have a duty to your husband to let him know he's being an ass. We also have the convention of not disagreeing in front of the kids. But which is worse, having a disagreement or your kids seeing your husband mock you?
Our not disagreeing in front of the kids has specifically to do with them asking us permission for something. It doesn't cover us making fun of someone.
Ummm, I'm not sure if I'm reading your post right but it seems that you wanted to be anonymous yet recounted your first name in the post. If that is the case, not disagreeing definitely doesn't cover making fun of you.
Check out the OK, Hatrackers, what do you think thread.
Man, this is really bugging me and I know it's not characteristic of all evolutionists. But he implies you are atavistic while putting down his wife. It's so brutish.
[ January 08, 2005, 02:21 AM: Message edited by: Trisha the Severe Hottie ]
Posts: 666 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
'Moron' is an extremely strong word. I used to say it openly about my father, in joking. He always yelled at me when I did it. I have since chosen to remove that word from my common-use vocabulary. In that situation, it was certainly the wrong word to use. What your son said was incredibly bright and honest. And in my opinion, I believe it would be lying if you were to hide your disagreements from your children. I think it would be better to disagree calmly in the open than to clam it all up and turn it into a larger argument later. The scariest thing I remember from my childhood was when my parents would have a big, yelling argument.
Edit: I think it's also important that you show, in front of your kids, that you don't have to take being called a "moron."
[ January 08, 2005, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: Boris ]
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posted
I'm sorry to have communicated so poorly. Sandy is my best friend. The kids know her well and play with her kids.
He wasn't talking about me. That's one of the things that makes this so hard. We have very strong differences of opinion, but we NEVER belittle one another in front of the kids. I feel like I did the right thing, but I also feel like I violated that rule.
Posts: 7 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
He was being rude. That is setting a bad example for the children. Your son was right to point out just how boorish that behaviour was. You are not being a bad wife by pointing this out... Being a good wife should not mean agreeing with someone no matter what.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I'd pretty much say being a good wife precludes agreeing with them no matter what. That's treating them like their opinions don't actually matter.
So are you a strict evolutionist or is this really about your husband calling your friend a moron?
And I don't personally like belly buttons, but that's no reason Adam and Even wouldn't have had them. My belief in God certainly doesn't hinge on it. Maybe they got belly buttons when they ate the fruit.
[ January 08, 2005, 02:58 AM: Message edited by: Trisha the Severe Hottie ]
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posted
Trisha- I believe that it isn't really important whether God decided to grow a single cell into to a human being, or decided to throw a full blown human into the scene. God gives life.
My problem isn't so much that he was insulting my friend, my problem is the disrespect and intolerance he was showing. I would have been just as offended if he'd made that remark about a stranger in front of my kids.
He is their biological father, but our marriage is a marriage of absence. I feel like a single parent. He's quite a bit older than I am and has gotten more and more beligerent and intolerant over the last five years. He sees the kids once or twice a week, the rest of the time he spends playing on the computer at work or visiting friends. It's become a reflex to talk about our sons as my kids.
Posts: 7 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
You should talk to him, in private. Try to get the point across that he wasn't being a good example to his and your child. Ask him if he would like to explain that to the child, or if he would rather you explain it, or best of all; both of you explain that it isn't a good thing to call someone a moron for what they believe in.
You are both in this marriage, and you should both bring up the children. He made the rather blunderous mistake, and being the responsible parent should rectify it, but that doesn't mean he has to do it alone.
I'm also betting that if you two discussed things more often, you would find that your relationship would be a closer one.
posted
Goody Maker, I realize I'm being a bit confrontational in this discussion so I just want to assure you that I do mean to help. But it seems the alienation between the two of you probably is related to your systematic acceptance of whatever he says - in front of the children. Maybe this incident was a way of him acting up to see if you would acknowledge him.
I mean, you both probably set out just wanting harmony. But harmony isn't always being real to people. So is no arguing in front of the children something you think of as your duty or is it something you two agreed to at one point?
Posts: 666 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Whether or not they agreed to that, her son turned to her and said "Right mom?" Her son was correct. She can't just shut her son down in order to agree with her husband who is clearly in the wrong.
I think that your marriage should be the #1 concern of your family relationships and I think that supporting one another, especially in front of kids, is even more important. But when one of you is clearly in the wrong and there's a kid standing there wondering what's right and what's wrong, I don't think that lying to the kid just to preserve 'harmony' is the right way to go (in every case.) Kids are smart (and your son sounds like he's really smart) and they'll know what you're up to. It could have the effect of keeping the kids from asking either of you about anything, if you're just going to agree with one another.
I also agree that you should bring this up with your husband in private. He probably did feel attacked and "ganged up on." But he seems like he's a good dad and that he would want his children to learn correct principles...even if it means admitting that he was wrong.
I know that if this becomes frequent, the children may start to disagree with dad on more subjects than they should and look to you to back them up. That is what needs to be avoided. It's delicate I think, but if you and your husband communicate with each other enough when the kids aren't around, you should be able to hold that together.
PS I don't have children, so I could be blowing smoke. But, I have watched this same issue with my parents for many a zillion years. Now that I'm old enough to not be a part of it anymore, I can see it from a different perspective...
PPS The nature of your relationship (him being gone a lot) sounds like the real issue here. If the two of you are not able to communicate about the kids because he's just not a part of things, then that's a huge problem. Again, I speak from adult daughter experience (my dad has reached the irrational stage, I thought of him immediately when you described your husband.)
posted
It sounds like the event itself isn't the really thorny issue, it's what underlies the happening of it. Individual incidents may be handled in a better or worse manner, but they are really just noise in dealing with the fundamental rhythms of a relationships.
[ January 08, 2005, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
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posted
I think parents only need to present a united front for issues relating directly to the children (e.g. punishments).
Other disagreements are healthy if they are presented in a constructive manner. Conflict resolution is an important skill. How you deal with your husband when you disagree will influence your children for the rest of their lives. If you always back down, your kids will learn the lesson that conflicts are resolved by avoidance and dominance. They may grow up to become pushovers, or worse, overbearing jerks.
Posts: 1592 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I just gotta give all you Hatrack parents a huge hug. I have no idea how to raise kids or be a good mom - my example was less than mediocre - but if/when it ever happens, at least I know I have somewhere to go to get good information, and I so appreciate that!
posted
I agree with Sara (and others): this particular incident is not the real issue. It sounds like you are dealing with a lot of pain and resentment.
Have you considered counseling? A good therapist (get referrals) can be a Godsend.
posted
Yeah, I was kinda wondering if this was typical behavior for your husband or if this was one of those weird off moments. But I guess if you're going to post about it, it's probably not just atypical behavior that could be shrugged off.
Talking privately with your husband would be good. And if it's a common occurrance, maybe getting some help to beef up communication skills between you and your husband. (Which is advice I could take myself, since your related exchange isn't unfamiliar.)
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I gotta say if I had said something like that I would have *expected* a rebuke from Monica, and one of my big issues with her has been her undermining me with the kids.
You are getting good advice here. It was your duty to correct him. it was important that you stand up for your son and his ability to disagree-- and it sounds like he did so respectfully... certainly far more respectfully than your husband. You *do* need to talk in private, and I recommend having a neutral authority as a mediator-- a counselor or pastor you either both trust deeply or both have never met.
Sorry to be redundant but I felt like weighing in.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I'd say you were right to disagree with him, even in front of the kids. Someone should never call their spouse a moron, particularly not in front of children. I think if you had failed to disagree with him (and back up your kid when he thought his father's behavior was incorrect) you would have been doing your children a disservice. Regardless of how personal beliefs differ, children should never have to see their father belittling their mother like that.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
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posted
My husband and I belive in being united in front of the kids on issues that affect family life - for instance, if my daughter asks if she can go to a birthday party and I say no, my husband would not then tell her yes, or say in front of her "Gee, you're being too harsh, let her go!"
If it's an issue of discipline, or other family issues, we are a united front, always. If we disagree with what the other said, we tell them so outside the children's hearing. Sometimes we'll call the kids back in and together tell them that something has changed, if one of us convinces the other. But we do it together, as a Mom/Dad unit.
But, on issues of opinion, we're not afraid to disagree in front of our kids. If my husband said he thought a particular movie was stupid, for example (like LOTR) I would not hesitate to speak up in front of the kids and say I thought he was wrong. The issue you described is a bit thorny, because it involves religious beliefs as well. Of course, I believe parents should share religious beliefs, and be united in what doctrines they want their children taught.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think it's never wrong to diagree with your husband in front of your kids. It depends on what the disagreement is about. If it's about a family policy of decision, yes you should be united. If it's just about his opinion of something or someone else, I don't think you have to remain silent.
In this particular case, your son is to be commended for his response. I think you did the right thing by telling him you agreed with him in front of his father.
In a somewhat analogous incident, my husband sometimes brings home what I'd term "firefighter terminology" and uses phrases or terms that we both don't want our kids to use. When he slipped up and used one at the dinner table once, my middle daughter Emily called him out on that. "Daddy, that's not how we should talk about other people!" Now, should I have supported my husband in this and told my daughter that she shouldn't correct her father? Or should I have supported my daughter and in that sense publicly taken a stand against what my husband said?
I supported Emily. I turned to Wes and said "yes, Daddy, we don't use those words, do we?" And he said "you're right, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that."
So in this long, rambling post do I have any real advice for you? Well, it's this - you should speak with your husband in private and tell him that you wanted to show the kids that the type of name calling he exhibited isn't something they should emulate. You want him to be united with you on the goal of raising intelligent, thoughtful, compassionate children. You believe the two of you should always be united in front of the kids on matters that affect the family, and you hope he understands that his getting angry at you didn't help. If he wants you to show him respect in front of the children, you would ask he do the same.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
What does it mean for the marriage to come first? And by the way, I don't think the marriage comes first, I think there are higher principles such as honesty or treating others as you would want to be treated, and other personal ethics which for many of us include God come first. I mean, you wouldn't commit a crime for your husband, so marriage doesn't really come first.
So what I am thinking this means is that where the spouse is right and the child is right, the spouse takes precedence. If the child is right and the spouse is wrong, right takes precedence. You want a child who grows up inculcated with your sense of right, and not a child who will look for a spouse who worships them.
Posts: 666 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
I think you did the right thing. Firts off, your husband was out of line. PLus it's OK for kids to know parents can disagree about non-family matters (politics, entertainment, etc) and do so respectfully. (let's just say our kids are being exposed to the whole political spectrum). I agree w/what Trisha said about ethics comeing first.
Posts: 1021 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
The kid's question was all about the issue of how and when it's okay to disagree with someone. I think that should be a perfect opportunity to demonstrate reasonable and compassionate disagreement by disagreeing with your husband in a kinder way than he disagreed with Sandy ...
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Jul 2004
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I need to clear-up some misconceptions which may help you understand why this was such an important crossroads for me.
1- Though my relationship with my husband is strange, it is not estranged. We talk several times a day about everything... except his relationship with the kids. This subject is one that immediately causes a defensive and angry reaction in him.
2- He is away from home for three reasons:
*He is obsessed with world events and has many ongoing dialogues with colleagues. He spends long hours at the office doing research and crafting responses to his friends about everything from Bush economics to stem cell research to market shifts. He does this research while smoking. He can't smoke at home because the kids and I are very allergic to even the littlest bit of cigarette smoke.
*He demands his freedom and to be entertained. He will only come home if the kids or I can promise that we've organized and are willing to do something new and fun. Otherwise, he tells the boys that he'd rather be at work.
*He isn't comfortable around the kids. When he walks in the door, he wants to turn-off anything they're watching or doing so that he can watch the news. They complain and he gets mad and storms off. If my husband and the kids play a game as simple as "Go Fish" together, he likes to make up his own rules and demand they play by his rules. Everytime this happens, either the kids refuse to play or he storms off in a huff. He can't do homework with them or practice sports with them without yelling at them or getting engaged in a clash of wills within 5 minutes.
It hurts me to watch them beat on each other emotionally. It never gets physical. I try to steer through neutral ground, only speaking up when I see something positive. But my husband is going to have to spend some time with these kids before he loses them.
This is the pain and frustration you see in my post. It's the fear that I've learned to be a strong wife and a good mother, but I know I can't be both if I'm forced to take sides. And I want my kids to have a father, and my husband to recognize the miracles that are his children.
My husband's personality has changed alot in the last 5 years. He not only offends the kids, but our friends as well. It's not uncommon for him to make an outburst like the one I mentioned to one of our friends. Privately, I'll apologize to the friend, then tell my husband that he hurt the person's feelings. His response is, "If they can't take a joke, then they need to be less sensitive. They need to learn to make their own happiness."
Many of our friend's are to the point where they only invite the kids and me over if my husband is out of town.
He is more sensitive with the kids, but only seems to be able to overcome his impatience and criticism for very short periods of time. It doesn't seem to be enough for the kids. When my husband offers to coach one of the kids' teams, they say, "No, Dad. If you do, then I won't have fun." Last week, I overheard my eldest tell my husband, "Dad, the only thing wrong with this family is you."
I am crying as I write this because today, my husband told his brother, "My kids hate me. It's okay, though. They'll get it out of the way now, then when they're teenagers, they'll think I'm the greatest."
From everything I've heard about teens, I can't see those years as the best time to begin a parent/child relationship.
Posts: 7 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I'd been avoiding posting to this thread until now because I really didn't have anything to say that wasn't a "me too" kind of response, and I generally don't like posting those.
It sounds to me from what you've posted, especially your recent update, like Dad might be ADD or obsessive-compulsive. I see a lot of things in your post that remind me of my Missy and of her father - who's been told by three different doctors, two of whom were treating Missy, that he shows strong signs of ADD and bi-polar. Changing rules mid-stream, everything's gotta be *his* way or he's not going to participate, wanting to take complete control of the situation whenever he can.
The sad thing is that your children are not going to wake up one day as teenagers and decide he's the greatest guy ever after dealing with years of neglect and inconsistent behavior from him. They may someday learn to tolerate him as he is, but what Dad's expecting won't come. But until he's willing to recognize it and wants to make a change, there's nothing else you can do in that regard. But I'm sure you already know that.
I do wish I had some solid suggestions for you. (((((GoodyMaker))))))
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that something is missing from this picture. People rarely become as estranged from their family as your husband is without some kind of reason. People are rarely as indifferent, to the point of hostility, to their family as you potray your husband to be without something going on in their lives.
I do sympathize with what is certainly a hard situation, and I hope everything gets better.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I posted last post before having seen Ms. Scrivener's post. I do agree there could be mental health issues of some sort.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Oh boy. Big hugs to you. Realize that anything I say is only my opinion, and I certainly don't know the situation in its entirety.
It isn't that he *will* lose the kids. He probably already has. I sincerely hope that your priorities are in the right place and you are willing to leave your husband and get help if he ever becomes abusive towards the children. They are helpless little people who don't have a choice about the situation they're living in. Note - I wasn't accusing your husband of abuse - it was a "just in case" kind of statement.
Would your husband be open to marital counseling? And if not, how about at least seeking some counseling for yourself? Counseling can be a wonderful tool in order to work through situations and problems like you are facing. You should give yourself a pat on the back. From your son's comments, it sounds as though you're raising some wonderful kids - and that's something to be proud of. I hope everything improves for you, and please remember that we're all here for you.
posted
Space, I was highly tempted to post those same two suggestions but was pretty certain that Maker's hubby wouldn't consider #2 and felt that #1 was quite drastic. Even had it all typed out... and then actually re-read my post before clicking Add for a change. Decided it was perhaps too pushy at this time and deleted that part.
And as far as I'm concerned, having been there myself and seeing my children's father do it as well, emotional neglect IS a form of abuse. It's not one that sends kids to the emergency room with acute trauma, but it absolutely builds up over time and seriously damages the victim.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
*preface* I don't have children, I'm simply analyzing this with my own logic.
If the eldest is already to the point where he's saying that the problem is his father, then the kids are pretty much already lost to him, unless there is intensive intervention, which he sounds unwilling to do. In that case, you already *are* their only parent and your duty IMO is to them before your husband. Evolutionarily speaking this is nearly always so, except in seahorses.
I don't know much about it, but I know some specific mental/personality disorders are onset later in life sort of like alzheimers but not necessarily that severe. You said it has gotten worse over the last 5 years. Is there anything that could have specifically triggered it 5 years ago? Or were the signs always there on other things, just drastically increasing in severity over the last few years? Is he significantly older than you? What is his family history on stuff like that? Is there anyone in the family but outside of the direct family unit (like grandparents or talking to his brother yourself) that is worried about this alienation or did it to their own children?
I can't help but wonder (and I'm not suggesting doing this but I'd be curious to know the answer)what your oldest would say if you asked him about how he would feel be if you and your husband got a divorce. It sounds like he'd be relieved. Not a good sign by any stretch.
The other posibility that I can think of, is that your husband while not being a perfectionist, likes to be one of "the best" at what ever he does. So if he can't be "the best" he won't do it. It almost sounds like that is his take on parenting. He is definitely behaving more childishly than your children. Which brings me to another point. Your children are having to be the "adults" and he is being the "child". Not necessarily good developmentally for a kid, not being allowed to be a child, though they will survive, I know I did.
I don't know how far the smoking addiction plays into things, but it could be that it is so strong a chemical addiction for him that has completely taken over controlling his life too, which would also explain a lot of the irrational behavior he exhibits. Though once again he'd have to admit he has a problem and want help. It's possible even wearing a nicotine patch so he can have his fix while he is home, would make him otherwise more like a normal human being again.
I'm sorry for the situation that you are going through. It is one thing to marry someone only having to deal with the weaknesses you already knew were there. It is hard when the person you love and gave your life to changes so drastically for the worse. It is one of the risks we all take when we get married. I'm sure you have learned to become very strong in dealing with this.
I do think that abuse *can* be a good reason to end a marriage. But that is a decision that is very individual and personal in nature.
On a side note, and a disturbing one as well, I heard a tale told of a husband who beat his wife bloody on their wedding night, thus "establishing" the way things were going to be in their marriage. He was following in the footsteps of his own father. Apparently she had no clue what sort of monster she had married.
You just never know.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote: I can't help but wonder (and I'm not suggesting doing this but I'd be curious to know the answer)what your oldest would say if you asked him about how he would feel be if you and your husband got a divorce.
Let me advise against this, even hypothetically. Speaking as someone who was the elder child in this scenario, it's a great way to instantly destroy any pedestal on which a child may have placed his parents.
Do not ask your children for advice on your relationship. Ever.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote: Let me advise against this, even hypothetically. Speaking as someone who was the elder child in this scenario, it's a great way to instantly destroy any pedestal on which a child may have placed his parents.
I agree with Tom. This would be a very bad thing to do. Not only could it lead to the issues that Tom described, it would lead to guilt if you ever did get a divorce (the eldest would feel that it was his fault that the marriage failed).
posted
As I said I wasn't suggesting she do it! Maybe I ran away with the hypothetical, but an 8 year old telling his father that the problem in the family is the father, is *not* the "rebellion" that could be expected during adolescence. It sounds more like frustrated truth-speaking to me.
I bet, as a mother, she already has a pretty good idea of what the child would say. I'm sure he'd first say that he'd like dad to change, but it sounds like he's already realized dad *isn't* going to change.
posted
AJ very clearly said that she did not actually advocate asking the children if they wanted the parents to get a divorce. I read her comment as asking Goody Maker what SHE thought the children might say, because obviously GM knows the situation much more intimately than any of us and even if she doesn't consciously know the answer, I bet she's got a good idea of what they might say were they asked about it.
Also, if GM was honestly going to ask the kids about something like this, there are ways of asking it without coming out baldly and saying "do you want me to divorce your father?"
Early in the thread there was a comment about the marriage coming first. I only agree with this to a certain point. Both parties have to be willing and open to making it work. But even in that case, there still has to be a balance between the spouse and the children. You can't focus on one to the perceived exclusion of the other. And I specifically state it in that way because that's an issue I recently discovered in dealing with my two daughters. I didn't know until a couple weeks ago that my 11 year old was feeling left out and ignored because of my working with the 7 year old and her medical and educational issues.
I think that given the situation as described to us so far, GM is best served by (1) focusing on her children and working to overcome the negative influence that the father has imposed (i.e. the belittling of the friend at the dinner table in front of the kids) and separately (2) trying to crack through hubby's walls to get some kind of positive results in that part of th relationship. Whether that part is possible, though, is totally up to the hubby, and may not come about until drastic measures are taken.
posted
I'm agreeing with prior comments about the possibility of mental illness. It sure sounds like that to me, too.
Is there any way you can get hubby to a doctor? Or can you talk to your doctor and get advice from him/her?
It would probably help you to get professional help, as in therapy. It can help you learn better ways of dealing with the situation hubby has created, possibly help you develop better strategies for dealing with hubby and his problems, and with the emotional trauma the kids are going through. I know it's not your problem directly, but you may be able to influence the direction this situation goes in.
quote:As I said I wasn't suggesting she do it! Maybe I ran away with the hypothetical,
AJ, sorry if it seemed as I was jumping on you. Its just that as someone studying developmental psychology I just cringed even at the hypothetical.
I just get overly jumpy when it comes to kids.
I'd also be in the group strongly recommending he seek counseling though. Personally, I'd recommend family counseling. In general, parent child conflict increases as the child moves into adolescence, and the parent and adolescent move further apart. It doesn't generally work the other way.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
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quote:The other posibility that I can think of, is that your husband while not being a perfectionist, likes to be one of "the best" at what ever he does. So if he can't be "the best" he won't do it. It almost sounds like that is his take on parenting.
AJ- It’s a little scary how close you are to the mark here. He was a well respected college hockey player and still holds some sailing records. He even raced with Dennis Connors once. In his professional life, he always exceeded expectations and blew-away any quotas or goals he was given. Parenting doesn’t fit into the competitive mold. For me it’s just about being there and being happy to be there. Simply “being there” is not something my husband is willing to do. Yet, because I am “there”, if my husband and I come home at the same, they run to me yelling “Mommy!” and they run right past him. His shoulders drop and he says, “I’m going to ….. I’ll see you guys later.”
I don’t know if this has any bearing on matters, but the only major thing that happened five years ago was that he had angioplasty.He had been smoking 2-3 packs a day for 20 years. At that time, he gave-up smoking with the aid of nicotine patches and an antidepressant, was able to stay smoke free for two years.
Regarding my husband’s family history, almost all of his brothers and sisters are obsessive, though I don’t think they’re necessarily compulsive. The youngest just got out of rehab, the second oldest is on antidepressants which have helped her control her drinking problem. My husband’s brother, who is just 10 mos older than my husband, has many of the same characteristics as my husband. My sister-in-law and I compare notes and her husband’s poor behavior tends to be seasonal and very closely follows the length and quality of daylight.
My husband has been obssessive since he was a kid. He is still very anal and nothing makes him happier than a well labelled shelf.
All of them are extraordinarily bright. My husband graduated from college two years early.
Violence has never been part of the family history. The parents didn’t even believe in spanking.
I don’t think that my husband would physically hurt the kids. It would violate one his his deeply held beliefs. Sometimes I think that one of the reasons he walks away so quickly whenever he loses patience with the kids is that he’s afraid that he might even think about wanting to spank them.
My kids have too many divorced friends to welcome a divorce. After watching a show where two parents were trying to decide who got the kids and when, the kids said, “Mom, I don’t like divorce.”
The kids just want their dad to want to spend time with them and to “like” them as they are. As long as my husband’s behavior doesn’t become physical and as long as I continue to see the kids feeling free to stick-up for themselves, I won’t consider divorce.
Sadly, as noted, my husband acts more the child than the kids do. I am worried about him. He is alienating so many people and he doesn’t seem to know or care how his words are affecting the people he cares about.
I was wondering if alzheimer’s has some of the same symptoms or whether it can increase the intensity and frequency of the symptoms I’ve described. I ask this, because in addition to everything else, his memory is becoming very poor.
I think he needs us, me and the kids, more now than he ever has.
posted
From your last post, I think your husband falls more toward the OCD side than the ADD side. Especially with the getting worse in winter- though I've read that can be either a dopamine or a seratonin problem.
I'm an OCD type and I have massive "If I can't do it right I won't start" problems.
quote: Anybody--mac? CT? Alucard? Theca? know if any studies have been done on the effect that Paxil has on the levels of empathy and compassion in people who take it? I know two people who are on it, and while it has done a great job with taking care of the depression in both people, they seem to have less empathy and compassion than they did before they started taking the medication
Your husband may not have been on Paxil, but as mentioned in the thread it is close to Prozac.
I imagine he stopped taking it, but may have developed the attitude that he's not important to the kids during that time.
If you want to scare the bejeezus out of yourself, you can always read up on CJD sometimes called early onset Alzheimers.
[ January 12, 2005, 02:21 AM: Message edited by: Trisha the Severe Hottie ]
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posted
I'm not going to pretend I have any clue how to successfully raise kids on any level, but I have to say: mad props to your eight year old for being so fair-minded.
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quote:The kids just want their dad to want to spend time with them and to “like” them as they are. As long as my husband’s behavior doesn’t become physical and as long as I continue to see the kids feeling free to stick-up for themselves, I won’t consider divorce.
My concern is that Dad isn't going to spend time with them and to like them as they are, to use your words, unless he institutes some massive changes in himself. And with actions like distancing himself from everyone when the kids go to you for something and arbitrarily changing rules of games, I don't see that change coming any time soon.
I am glad to see that the kids feel comfortable with sticking up for themselves, but it kind of stinks that they need to feel that way against their own father. He should be someone they can trust and confide in, not someone they have to protect themselves from. Maybe if you can get that across to him, he might wake up enough to see what he's doing to them.
{{{{GM and the kids}}}
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posted
*hugs* Goody Maker. The problem is that problems like these normally don't have single causes. They are complicated. Which makes solving them, if they can be solved even more complicated. And nearly impossible if you don't have someone who is willing to work with you.
If you could some how get it to be a challenge to him to learn how to be a better parent and actually desire to be good at it, then counselling might work. But without that willingness unless you, yourself are willing to use more subliminal psychological manipulation on both your husband and your children (the ethics of which make me squicky because personally I think it can exceed mere 'coping techniques' at times and is actually messing with peoples minds without their permission) you may be stuck at an impasse.
posted
I think it was really important that you a) backed up your son when he was right and b) showed your son that it is not ok to speak that way to your wife.
Not everyone is able to handle having children very well. It might be good to consult a counselor or someone in your place of worship (if you have one) about ways to make the situation better.
It sounds like you are being a great mother and a wife. I think that if push comes to shove it is more important to raise your child to be the thoughtful tolerant person you want him to be then it is to avoid small disagreements between you and your husband. As other people have said, as long as the disagreement is handled civilly and calmly it should not be a problem.
Congratulations on raising such a great son. Posts: 1015 | Registered: Aug 2004
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About six weeks ago, my husband decided that he was going to be a father/husband and head of the house NOW!
Long undiscussed issues such as why he knew nothing about who I am and who the kids are became the focus of his anger. He became so angry and unpredictable that he would alternately storm around the house all night and burst into the bedrooms at one or two in the morning demanding to know why he didn't know us or why we couldn't read one another's mind anymore.
After getting more and more frightened, and him getting more and more frustrated by my fear, he agreed to start marriage counselling.
We started marriage counselling 2 weeks ago. There was no yelling and few tears.
Basically, he says that he doesn't know how to love because his mother died early; he is much smarter than most of the people around him and everyone should just take his solutions to heart, otherwise he feels the need to "bulldoze" people into accepting his opinions; he doesn't like me and hasn't since our first son was born.
My take is that I am sorry for him because he's missing out on his kids; I have been doing the single parent thing so long that it has become a fortress for me and I'm having a hard time letting down my defenses to let him become a part of my life again; and, though we are polite, I knew that he didn't like me.
I had told the therapist that he didn't like me, and when he confirmed it, she looked at me and said, "You look... relieved."
And I was and am. Fear and then relief. This doesn't sound good to me. Can I bridge the gap between relief at being disliked by my husband and learning to want him in my daily activities again? Can I learn to not want to either crawl away or defend the person he's bullying into his most recent epiphany? I just don't know where to go from here.
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posted
(((hugs))) I have often felt like I don't know how to love, and gotten very angry at everyone. I'm usually very depressed when that happens. If I don't realize that I'm depressed, then it just gets worse until I realize I'm depressed and make an effort not to act that way.
That may be the case with your husband, but I don't think that pointing it out to him is going to help, so all I can do is (((hug))) and *think good thoughts*. And that I will do.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Yeah, I'm with ketchupqueen in that that's also been my experience, except I don't usually get angry, I just get more depressed. But then, from everything I've read, depressin is unexpressed anger turned on oneself instead of others. So, same thing, really.
I wish I had suggestions. Good luck.
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I think the question becomes, then, whether your marriage vows are worth risking the happiness of you and your children (given the chance that things do not improve). That's a question that none of us could answer. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Do you think it is beyond trying to regain touch with whatever feelings you two had for each other that led to initial attraction and marriage?
I relate to what you both must be feeling. I always "held myself back" in relationships -- fiercely independent, so I wouldn't open myself emotionally hardly at all. So I understand how your husband feels, but also understand why you would fear letting him be an integral part of your life again.
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