posted
I heard many comments about Mormons and the Mormon Church. Yet, who will be kind enough to state me clearly the principles of that movement? (Wow, my first proper phrasing of a Christian issue.)
Curious Geo... - ahem - Howard
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posted
Well, I'm not one myself, but I can tell you right off the bat that they prefer being called "LDS" - Latter Day Saints. "Mormon" is a bit coarser a term.
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posted
Most Church members don't mind being called Mormons - they don't find it offensive, just innacurate. It was a nickname given to them by those who misunderstood the name of the Church and the Church's scripture called The Book of Mormon.
The full name of the Church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and in this name the use of the word "saint" does not denote someone of unflinching morality and semi-deity as it does in Catholicism; it is strictly a term for those who follow Christ.
A good condensation of the Church's beliefs was written by Joseph Smith in response to questions much like your own, Johnathan, and is known as the Articles of Faith.
Another good site that answers questions about the basic beliefs of the Church is here. You can also post whatever questions you like and I (and others, no doubt) will be glad to answer them.
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posted
And though polygamy has been practiced to a limited extent by the Church in the past, as it was by Biblical figures in the Old Testament, it is no longer part of Church policy and anyone who takes more than one spouse is living contrary to Church law and is excommunicated.
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posted
From the perspective of Christians who do not consider Mormons as fellow Christians, what makes Mormonism so different from other Christian groups? I suspect the major difference is simply age, but I might be wrong.
From the Mormon's perspective, which other major religion do you have the closest doctrinal similarities with?
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quote:in this name the use of the word "saint" does not denote someone of unflinching morality and semi-deity as it does in Catholicism; (emphasis added)
quote:The Catholic Church canonizes or beatifies only those whose lives have been marked by the exercise of heroic virtue, and only after this has been proved by common repute for sanctity and by conclusive arguments. ... [T]he Church see[s] in the saints nothing more than friends and servants of God whose holy lives have made them worthy of His special love. She does not pretend to make gods.
quote:The communion of saints is the spiritual solidarity which binds together the faithful on earth, the souls in purgatory, and the saints in heaven in the organic unity of the same mystical body under Christ its head, and in a constant interchange of supernatural offices. The participants in that solidarity are called saints by reason of their destination and of their partaking of the fruits of the Redemption (I Cor., i, 2-Greek Text). The damned are thus excluded from the communion of saints. The living, even if they do not belong to the body of the true Church, share in it according to the measure of their union with Christ and with the soul of the Church. St. Thomas teaches (III:8:4) that the angels, though not redeemed, enter the communion of saints because they come under Christ's power and receive of His gratia capitis.
posted
I'm not speaking about doctrinal simularities, but practicing Mormons and practicing Catholics often have surprisingly similar outlooks on things.
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quote:From the perspective of Christians who do not consider Mormons as fellow Christians, what makes Mormonism so different from other Christian groups? I suspect the major difference is simply age, but I might be wrong.
I have heard many times from folks of various Protestant denominations that we are not considered Christian because of our beliefs on the nature of God. In short, we believe that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are separate beings and that the Father and the Son have bodies of flesh and bone that resemble ours but are perfected and immortal. We believe that God was once a man like us and that we are His literal children with the potential to become like Him. If your definition of a Christian is someone who does not believe the above things, well, there you go. If you define a Christian, though, as someone who believes in Christ, then we are most definitely Christians. We call ourselves Christian and we worship no one higher than God the Father and Jesus Christ. None of the prophets or scriptural figures are deities.
quote:From the Mormon's perspective, which other major religion do you have the closest doctrinal similarities with?
This is a great question. I personally love to study other religions; we believe that many churches, though they don't posess the complete fulness of truth that we claim to posess, do teach very good, very true things. I have always felt a special affinity with Catholics and Jews. Like the Catholics, we believe in a direct line of authority and an acting sole authority on earth today. We practice many ordinances that require authentication by the priesthood authority. Like the Jews, we believe in ancient traditions and many of our sacred temple ordinances are based on very very ancient practices. We believe that the Jews are literal children of Israel and the prophecies about their destiny as a chosen people are very true. Like Quakers, we believe that we can receive direct revelation from God and we believe that miracles and manifestations of the spirit have not ceased in our day. Like Muslims, we live strict laws of personal cleanliness and health and almsgiving (tithing). Like some Protestant churches, we believe in baptism by immersion.
I have a hard time categorizing which church we are closest to because there is so much of truth to be had in all religions. I guess the best way to "categorize" our beliefs is this: We believe the Bible to be true scripture and follow the teachings of Christ. We also believe that the Book of Mormon is a true scriptural record of ancient people of the Americas who witnessed the coming of Christ, and we also hold as scripture modern prophetic writings such as the Doctrine and Covenants. The words of our prophet today (we have a prophet and twelve apostles) are considered scripture as well. We believe that everyone is entitled to direct revelation from God in their own sphere of authority - every man and woman can receive revelation for themselves and those that they are officially responsible for. For a father, this is his family. For a Sunday School teacher, this is her class. For the prophet (and only the prophet) this means the entire world.
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posted
Thanks for that clarification, Dag. My use of the word deity was incorrect there. I suppose I meant to clarify the fact that the LDS notion of a "saint" does not denote someone you pray to.
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posted
Or even somebody that has reached a certain level of righteousness. Anybody who is a member of Christ's church and is trying to follow Him is a saint, in our usage.
posted
Ok, you said that questions could be answered here, and I have a list that I've been saving up for when I got missionaries to come visit (and seeing it has been over a year of trying, I've pretty much given up on that).
I apologize in advance if the premises of any of these questions are wrong. Some of this comes from my grandparents who often had LDS missionaries at their house (apparently, although they were Orthodox Jews, they were known among the missionaries as a place to rest and get some great lemonade).
1. Did Joseph Smith perform miracles? 2. Why do you need the Aaronic priesthood to baptize someone when Aaron never baptized anyone? 3. Why are Jews considered gentiles? 4. What are the requirements for being able to enter the temple? 5. What exactly happened at Nauvoo? Why is OSC's LDS forum called Nauvoo? 6. Are there any callings that are paid? 7. What is the difference between a temple and a church? 8. Why all the secrecy? 9. Why "Elder" as the title? 10. If one just wanted to read a portion of the Book of Mormon (maybe one favorite story or something), what would you recommend?
Edited to add one additional question: 11. Where did G-d the man live before G-d the deity created the universe?
posted
Just for some further clarification. From the first link above:
quote:And if St. Paul beseeches the brethren (Rom., xv, 30; II Cor., i, 11; Col., iv, 3; Ephes., vi, 18, 19) to help him by their prayers for him to God, we must with even greater reason maintain that we can be helped by the prayers of the saints, and ask their intercession with humility. If we may beseech those who still live on earth, why not those who live in heaven?
Catholics do not pray to saints in the same way we pray to God. Rather, we ask them to pray for us. However, the common use of prayer would allow that word to be used for asking the saints to pray for us. "Prayer for relief" used to be the way of asking a court to grant some relief.
So really, we only pray for prayers from saints. "Beseech" is probably the better word.
My understanding is, yes. But I am not very familiar with them, since his performing miracles is not emphasised in the teachings of our church. A person has to actually research the subject to find out about it. (Of course, translating the Book of Mormon by the power of God is a pretty big miracle--funny, I didn't think of that one.)
2. Why do you need the Aaronic priesthood to baptize someone when Aaron never baptized anyone?
We believe that baptism has been practiced among all times of humanity beginning with Adam when the people had the true church of God among them. The assumption is that baptism was practiced then, though I know of no evidence of it Biblical or otherwise. (The "sea" resting on twelve oxen built into Solomon's temple was supposedly for that purpose, according to LDS belief.)
3. Why are Jews considered gentiles?
Eh, not everyone uses the term "gentiles" that way. But just as "the people of God" were the children of Israel in old times with all others being called Gentiles, so the LDS believe that they are the modern-day "people of God" with whom he has re-established his covenant. So by that reasoning, all others could be considered "Gentiles". According to this lexiconal definition, the Jews are considered Gentiles because they have not accepted Christ or joined His church restored to the earth.
4. What are the requirements for being able to enter the temple?
One must have an interview with their bishop and be found "worthy" on certain points. One can enter the temple to do baptismal ordinances for the dead as soon as they themselves are baptized into the church. Anything beyond that, a one-year membership minimum is required.
Among the specific requirements are a belief in the most basic teachings of the church, chastity, honesty, following a code of health called "The Word of Wisdom", the paying of a full and honest tithe, and having relationships with family members that are appropriate before God.
5. What exactly happened at Nauvoo? Why is OSC's LDS forum called Nauvoo?
I am not terribly knowledgable about this. They built a beautiful, happy, hardworking, peaceful community out of a swamp that no one else wanted. The people were driven from their homes violently, and from this point crossed the plains to arrive in Utah.
6. Are there any callings that are paid?
There are employees in the church, but they serve in "secular" positions of employment. Callings are not paid-positions.
7. What is the difference between a temple and a church?
The church is a place of worship open to anyone. The temple is a place where covenants are made both for the living and for the dead, and only those who are worthy may enter.
8. Why all the secrecy?
I don't really have a good answer for that. Not one that will readily make sense, anyway. We believe these things are to be kept sacred, only to be given to those who have already done their best to live worthily of them, and who believe in God and that this (the LDS church) is His kingdom being built on the earth.
9. Why "Elder" as the title?
There are several different positions of the priesthood described in the New Testament. This is the first office in the Melchezidec priesthood, and it may be given to young men when they are 18 (I think). They remain in this office unless they are called to something higher, like High Priest. So a large number of men in the church are in this office. When they are 19, they may serve a mission. When they are set apart and ordained to preach the gospel for 2 years, they also take on the title "Elder" that reflects their calling in the priesthood.
I think a lot of this is arbitrary tradition, but that is just my opinion.
10. If one just wanted to read a portion of the Book of Mormon (maybe one favorite story or something), what would you recommend?
First Nephi, the very first book, is actually a great book to read.
11. Where did G-d the man live before G-d the deity created the universe?
On an earth like this one. As to where, we don't know. But since we believe that the righteous will inherit this earth, and that this earth will become new, glorified and perfected, if He follows that same pattern (and it makes sense to assume so) then he resides on the very planet upon which he lived His mortal life--albeit a glorified world now.
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quote: 1. Did Joseph Smith perform miracles? 2. Why do you need the Aaronic priesthood to baptize someone when Aaron never baptized anyone? 3. Why are Jews considered gentiles? 4. What are the requirements for being able to enter the temple? 5. What exactly happened at Nauvoo? Why is OSC's LDS forum called Nauvoo? 6. Are there any callings that are paid? 7. What is the difference between a temple and a church? 8. Why all the secrecy? 9. Why "Elder" as the title? 10. If one just wanted to read a portion of the Book of Mormon (maybe one favorite story or something), what would you recommend?
1. Yes. 2. He did, but it was mentioned more as a washing in the old testament. 3. They're not. At least not if you understand the term. The Book of Mormon refers to both Jews and Gentiles. We don't believe that the Jews are any less chosen now than they were in the Old Testament. If any Mormon refers to a jew as a gentile, please correct them. 4. Belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ, being a full tithe payer, not being affiliated with groups who's teachings are contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ (No Nazis in other words), be baptized, follow all the covenants made inside the temple (Not going over those here, except to mention that following the law of chastity is one of them), and a few other things I can't remember off the top of my head. 5. Nauvoo was where the church was planning to rebuild Zion, or what we believe to have been the perfect society. Mobs expelled the people from the city, forcing the exodus to Utah. 6. Not any specific callings. Some callings allow renumeration of expendatures, like mileage alotments, but those callings are few. The church does, however, employ many people, such as seminary teachers (In many western states, in most states, seminary teachers are not paid anything other than a travel budget, which usually comes out to about 100-200 dollars a year IIRC). 7. Churches are gathering spots, just like a church for any other denomination. Anyone can go into a church, as long as they don't drink or smoke inside the building, as is typical with most public places. The temple is where only those who have proven themselves worthy members of the church go to learn more about the gospel, ponder, and renew themselves spiritually, we also perform sacred ordinances such as marriages, baptisms for the deceased, and what we call an endowment. I can't go into detail on the endowment, which brings us to... 8. It's not that we're trying to be secret about everything, it's that we believe everyone has to learn things one step at a time. You can't go from crawling to slam-dunking basketballs in the same day, it takes time, patience, and effort. We're not trying to keep anyone out of the temple, quite the contrary, we want everyone to have the chance to go through the temple, but you have to understand the small stuff before you can understand the big stuff. 9. I'm not sure on that. My guess is that it's more of a traditional thing. We could call Elder's captains and it wouldn't make any difference. 10. I recommend the book of Alma, or the book of Moroni, specifically Moroni chapter 10.
Hope that answers more questions than it raises.
Edited to answer #11: Honestly, it doesn't matter to me. I don't need to know, I don't want to know, and I'm probably not going to find out in this life.
[ January 09, 2005, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: Boris ]
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posted
Since no one has actually addressed the topic yet, I will (edit: it has been addressed since I started typing this ). Of course, I am not going to attempt to cover all our doctrines, but just many of the ones I consider most basic. I am sure others will add to this.
First off, the actual, original name of our church is: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The term Mormon was originally used mostly by adversaries to our Church (Mormon comes from the Book of Mormon), but the name has stuck because it is obviously much shorter and easier to say. LDS is also another shortened name, for Latter-day Saint.
By the way, in reference to the comment above, calling ourselves Saints might be conceited under two conditions:
1. We actually "called ourselves" Saints. The Lord chose the name through revelation, we didn't pick it (of course, if you don't believe in our church, then this condition is a moot point).
2. It depends on your definition of Saint. To some people, a Saint can be a very holy, revered person, considered to be of a higher moral standard than most others. In our church, a Saint is simply somebody who chooses to take upon themself the name of Christ and be baptized in His name. It is not a self-declaration of righteousness or moral superiority. A common saying in our church is that the only difference between saints and sinners is that saints are continually repenting through Christ.
So, we believe that all humans are spirit children of God, or Heavenly Father. Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father are two separate beings, but one in purpose, and they are both perfect in every way. Christ is one of God's spirit children, the 1st born in fact (note that we also refer to Christ as God). However, he is the only one whose physical father is also God (the rest of us have mortal fathers to beget our physical bodies).
We believe that we all lived as Spirit children with Heavenly Father and Christ before we born into this mortal world. We believe that our spirits are eternal and that we dwelt with God for a very long time (it has not been revealed how long) in preparation for becoming mortals on earth.
Shortly before coming to earth, there was a conflict between those that wanted to accept Christ as their future Savior (we knew that we would sin in mortality) and those that wanted to follow Lucifer, or Satan, who was also one of God's children. Lucifer, in essence, wanted us all to come to earth and be automatically saved without any choice on our part. He wanted everyone to get a free ride, and he wanted to receive all of the glory for his work. He wanted to take God's place. A portion of God's children rejected Christ and followed Lucifer. Lucifer, and all those that followed him, were cast down to earth as spirits, cursed to never receive physical bodies. Their purpose is to tempt mankind on earth. Those that chose Christ as their Savior are all of us who are born into mortality on this earth.
This leads us to why God needed to send us to earth to become mortal in the first place. I guess it would help to first point out that God's ultimate purpose for all of His children is to help them become like Him. To become perfected and dwell with Him for all eternity. We have been in training for eons before mortality, being raised by God as children are raised by parents here on earth.
However, there needed to be a final test, a final opportunity to become like God. You see, one of God's defining attributes is His agency, or ability to choose. He is not God because he can't help it. He is God because He chooses to be perfect in every way. He could choose evil if He wanted, but He never does. Thus, for us to become like Him, we must be able to willingly choose between good and evil (this is what made Satan's plan so diabolical: he wanted to take away our freedom to choose).
We had to prove our ability to choose in a place outside of God's presence, a place with many challenges and tragedies. It would be a piece of cake to choose good if you dwelt in the presence of Ultimate Good, in a perfect place. We needed to come to earth, cut off temporarily from God's presence, to see if we would choose God even when in the worst of circumstances.
God created Adam and Eve to have the first physical bodies. They came to earth in the garden of Eden, a heavenly place without death or decay. Adam and Eve, along with all mortals, are born into this world with a veil over their minds. We cannot remember our premortal life with God. God did this so that another essential attribute must be exercised: faith. We had to learn to act in faith (I could go into why God requires faith, but that is a whole other discussion).
As representative of the supreme importance God puts on choice (for without it, the best we could become would be perfect puppets), he did not put Adam and Eve into mortality unless they chose it. They were created as immortals with physcial bodies. They were commanded that they could eat any fruit in the garden, except one. They were told that they could choose to eat the forbidden fruit, but God made it clear that if they did, they would die. However, God also commanded them to multiply and replenish the earth (so that the rest of God's spirit children could receive physical bodies), and they couldn't fulfill this commandment in their innocent, immortal state (for reasons not yet revealed to us). Thus, we believe that Adam and Eve made a choice to partake of the fruit. They knew that the human family couldn't begin until they did. Satan tempted them to eat the fruit because he was trying to destroy God's plan. However, Satan was not aware of God's true plan, and he helped fulfill God's plan without even knowing it.
Thus, Adam and Eve ate the fruit and thus became mortal. Just as God promised, death now came upon them and the whole world (though not immediately). God told them that before they died, they would be given the opportunity to repent of their sins, through a Savior. This life, then, became a preparatory place before returning to God. We have mortal bodies that are prone to the temptations of the flesh, along with Satan adding to those temptations. Thus, we are here to learn to make good choices, despite our weak bodies and the lies of the devil. If we can learn to make good choices in the face of such temptations (and Christ was the only one to do this perfectly), we are becoming more like God.
Now here is the key point in our religion: Not one mortal, save Jesus (who was only partially mortal, for His Father gave him power over death), has been able to always choose good. In fact, most of us make selfish choices all of the time. God expects us to do our very best in choosing good, but He knew that our very best wouldn't even come close to perfection. No unclean thing can dwell in God's presence, so by committing even one small sin excludes us from ever returning to God. God's perfect justice requires that all sin be punished. But God also has mercy and is perfect in His mercy. He asked for a volunteer to pay for all of the sins that would be committed, and His perfect Son, Jesus, willingly volunteered, out of love for us and His Father.
Thus, Christ chose to be born into mortality, without any memory of who He was. He grew like the rest of us, except that He never sinned. He was taught to seek God and did so to such a degree that He was teaching religious experts at the age of 12. By his adulthood, He was closer to God than any of us are to each other in mortality. He perfectly obeyed His Father's will, insomuch that He could consider Himself One with His father. Had Heavenly Father been in Christ's shoes, He would have made the same perfect choices.
Christ, when in the garden of Gethsemane, voluntarily paid the terrible pain for all of God's children. Not only did Christ suffer the punishment for our sins, He suffered every emotional, physcial, mental pain that every mortal had or ever would suffer. He did this so that He would be able to comfort us and strengthen us, and to redeem us. Nothing we go through is alien to Him. There is no experience that He does not have firsthand experience of. His pain and suffering, while performing this atonement, caused Him, even God, the greatest of all, to suffer and bleed at every pore.
He then went on to submit himself to torture and death, though He could have stopped it at any time if He chose. His sacrifice had to be perfectly voluntary. He was eventually crucified and willingly gave up the ghost when His work was finished: when he had truly defeated all sin and Satan, completely on His own. He gave up His life, and rose 3 days later with a perfected, immortal body. We do not believe that this was a temporary body, but one that He dwells in to this day, and for all eternity. Each of us after death will automatically receive immortal bodies, too, because He overcame death for us.
Where we dwell after becoming immortal, though, depends on the most important choice: will we follow Christ or not? Since we do our best, but still sin, we must call upon Christ for repentance. He promises that if we constantly strive to do better, while relying wholly on Him for strength and forgiveness, we will one day receive eternal life. We believe completely in grace, for without it, we are lost. But we do not believe in the type of grace that automatically saves us by just confessing Christ's name with your lips. You must give your heart to him and do your best. Only God can truly know what your best it.
Since Adam, God has continued to call prophets to reveal His commandments and teachings to us. Since this mortal experience requires us to be cut off from God's presence, God could not teach us personally. He teached through prophets. Of course, how can we know when a prophet is a true prophet? This is the purpose of the Holy Ghost. God sends the Holy Ghost, or the Spirit, to teach us what things are true. If something is true, the Holy Spirit reveals it to our heart and our mind.
Prophets have been called throughout the earth's history, but there have been times when the earth was without prophets because people rejected them. The longest time the earth went without prophets was from the death of the original 12 apostles, until 1820, when God revealed himself to the young boy, Joseph Smith.
It was not unusual for God to prepare such a young person to be a prophet, for He did the same with some prophets, such as Samuel in the Old Testament. We believe the Bible to be the inspired writings of prophets since the time of Adam. We also believe that many of the writings of these prophets have been lost throughout the ages, and many of God's revelations were also lost in the process.
So, God revealed himself to Joseph and prepared him to reestablish Christ's church on the earth. In fact, God's church has been restored many times in the earth's history, after a time when no one would follow God's teachings. We believe God's church being reestablished through Joseph Smith to be the last time God will have to reestablish it, because His church will never be taken from the earth again until Christ's Second Coming.
We do not worship Joseph Smith any more than another Christians worship Moses. He was a mortal man, though a prophet, that testified of Christ, but he needed repentance through Jesus just as much as the rest of us. After Joseph was killed, God has continued to speak through prophets. The current prophet of our Church is Gordon Hinckley.
We consider any writings to be scripture if they are revealed through inspired prophets. There was a civilization in the early Americas (ancestors the the Mayans, Aztecans, Native Americans, etc.) that had sailed here from Jerusalem, shortly before Jersualem was destroyed around 587 B.C. These people were Jews who followed the Law of Moses, just as the Jews in Jerusalem. However, after Christ was resurrected He visited these people in the Americas. He told them that the Law of Moses was fulfilled and that His gospel was to be established in place of it. After this time, they no longer followed the Mosaic law of animal sacrifices, etc. (It should be noted that we believe the law of Moses was revealed to the Israelites to be a very symbolic law that represented the future sacrifice of Christ. Everything in that law was representative of Christ's redemption).
These Christians dwelt in the Americas until 420 AD, when they were eventually destroyed by their enemies. God had always warned them that they would be protected as long as they served Him, but that He would withdraw His protection if they completely rejected Him. They eventually did, and thus they were no longer protected from their neighboring enemies.
Throughout their civilization, God called prophets, who wrote His teachings, just as the prophets of the Bible. These teachings coincide with the teachings of the Bible. Before their civilaztion was destroyed, the last living prophet gathered all of their records that had been handed down, and buried them in the earth (in present day New York state). He knew that God would reveal this holy record in the future, when His gospel was restored to the earth.
So, when Joseph Smith was called as a prophet, an angel led him to this buried record (written on gold plates) and God gave him the power to translate it. The book was called the Book of Mormon. It was named after the ancient prophet who had abridged the history and holy teachings of this civilization.
Thus, the Book of Mormon was published to stand as a 2nd witness of Jesus Christ. It is a companion to the Bible, not a replacement. It's purpose is to testify of Jesus Christ and to show that there was another people that also knew about Jesus.
Another essential element to Christ's gospel is the power of the Priesthood, which is the power of God. Christ ordained 12 apostles in Bible times, using His Priesthood power. God's church cannot operate on the earth without this priesthood authority. This authority is required to give the gift of the Holy Ghost, to baptize, and to marry couples so that they are married even beyond death. We believe that this authority was lost from the earth when the early apostles, and other church members with the priesthood, were killed.
Catholics believe that this authority was handed down from Peter through an unbroken line to the current Pope. We believe that it was lost and then restored through Joseph Smith. Since then, the priesthood can be given, by the laying on of hands, to any male who is baptized by this priesthood authority, and who is trying their best to follow Christ.
Our church operates through this power, and we believe in continual revelation from our prophets. We also believe in receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost through the priesthood. This gift allows us to receive personal revelation. Without this gift, we would have no way of knowing what religious teachings are true.
Thus, you can read the Book of Mormon with a sincere desire to know its truth, for example, and seek God in prayer until He reveals to you that it is true. The Book of Mormon teaches that the truth of all things can be found by seeking God and listening for the Holy Ghost.
Now on to why we have temples. God has always had temples, and when they weren't available, God sent men into mountain tops, or had them build tabernacles in the wilderness. Temples are sacred buildings where ordinances are performed using the priesthood.
We believe that all people must accept Christ and be baptized through the proper authority to be saved. This poses a problem, since many good people in this world have died without any knowledge of Christ, or were sincerely baptized, but without the proper priesthood authority. If God condemned the billions of people in this category, He would indeed be an unjust God.
God is perfect and His order is perfect, so He requires His ordinances to be required of everyone. Even Christ followed His Father's laws perfectly by being baptized by the only person who held the proper authority at the time, John the Baptist (Christ obviously had the authority, too, but you can't baptize yourself).
So, temples are God's way of providing the opportunity of baptism for all people who have died without a legitimate chance to truly hear and accept the gospel of Christ. Using the priesthood, members of our Church can go into a temple and be baptized again (except it is done for a deceased person). We believe that the spirits of all people go to a place called the spirit world, to wait until judgment day. Most of these spirits are people that were not baptized with the proper authority during mortality.
So, we can be baptized on their behalf in a temple. However, we must have the person's name and date of birth or death to do this. This is why our church is so very much into family history work, or geneology. We are researching who our ancestors were so that we can make sure every person who has ever lived will have the opportunity to accept or reject baptism.
Once I, for example, am rebaptized for a person who has died, that person in the spirit world can accept or reject that baptism. We believe they are being taught the gospel of Christ in the spirit world, so they can choose to follow it or not. It is important to know that this spirit world is not God's kingdom. They are still not in God's presence. In fact, I suppose the only thing the spirit world can prove to a dead person is that there is life after death. They still have no more proof that there is a God than you or I do. Thus, they must still act on faith to accept Christ's gospel, or they can reject the proxy baptism done for them.
Members of our church are also married in temples so that their marriage does not end at death. Without a marriage by this priesthood power, their marriage ends at death, just as the ceremony says.
So, this is the essential purpose of temples. The only reason we do not allow non-LDS people into them is because you must be baptized by the proper authority for the ordinances in the temples to have any effect. There is nothing weird that goes on temples, like some church critics claim. I know from personal experience.
You may say, it is impossible to find the names of every person who has ever lived, since many nations kept no records. This is true, and this is one of the purposes of the thousand years of the millennium, which will come after Christ comes again. The reason there will be a thousand years of peace is so that the immense temple work will be continued. During that time, we will receieve revelation from the spirit world concerning all those people that have been lost to history, so we can be baptized for them, also. Not a single person will be left out by judgement day. Every mortal will be given a real, legitimate opportunity to accept or reject Christ before the end comes. If you turned away an LDS missionary at your door, I wouldn't consider that a legitimate chance, for example.
We believe that all churches (or non-religious groups for that matter) who teach good principles and strive to lead good lives are inspired by Christ, for all good things come from Christ. We don't believe that a good catholic or muslim who dies is going to be damned because they weren't Mormon. They will, either in this life or the next, be taught the fulness of Christ's gospel, through the proper authority, and given the chance to accept or reject it. God is perfectly just and merciful. None will be left out because of a technicality.
After the millennium, when all the work is done, the end of the earth will come, and judgement day will come. We believe that there are 4 places a person might go after this life: 3 kingdoms of glory, or eternal damnation (reserved for the likes of Satan, Judas Iscariot, and others that TRULY know who Christ is and would still crucify Him if given the chance).
Have you ever wondered how God could divide all of mankind into heaven or hell? Aren't there degrees of goodness and evil? The highest kingdom is where Christ and His Father dwell. That is what most people are referring to when they say heaven. The next kingdom is for the good people of the world, who were honorable and decent, but chose not to follow Christ, because they loved the things of the world more. The third is for people who are murderers, liars, adulterers (this does not include people who have sincerely repented through Christ).
Another way to distinguish between the 3 kingdoms is those who accepted Christ the 1st time they were given a true chance; those who would not choose him in this life because of the love of the world, but chose him after death; and those who never accept him. This last group must pay for their own sins in hell before going to a kingdom of glory, because they would not allow Christ's atonement to save them.
Those in the highest kingdom, who dwell with Christ and Heavenly Father, will learn to become like God. Seeing His children become perfected like Him is God's greatest source of happiness, just as it is for an earthly father or mother to see their child grow into a good, productive person. We believe that families will exist in heaven much as they do here. God patterns this world more like His own than we realize (without any of the imperfections, obviously).
That should be enough to cover the basics. I didn't intend for this to be soo long, but it is all essential to the LDS faith. What I have written are my personal, sincere beliefs, and so I ask that any discussion on what I have written be treated that way. Obviously I don't expect you all to agree with me, but I do consider what I have shared to be personal, so please keep that in mind. I hope this helps, and I hope I have not been too long-winded.
One of the most important things our church teaches is that none of these things can be known without the Spirit. Our church does not convince through logic or argument (though my beliefs, only superficially represented above, make perfect logical and reasonal sense to me). To seek truth, you must seek God and sincerely ask Him if these things are true. Any other method of learning of God would be a method of man.
As Paul taught, one can only know the things of God through the Spirit of God, not the spirit of man.
As a priesthood holder (aside: the priesthood in LDS terminology does not refer to "priests" or preachers or leaders of any sort. Any worthy male can hold the priesthood, which is the authority to act in God's name), Joseph Smith had the authority to give blessings. Priesthood blessings, commonly practiced by all members of the church, have the power to heal, to rebuke evil spirits, and so forth. There are documented accounts of Joseph Smith giving miraculous priesthood blessings, and he translated scripture through a miraculous gift of God, but he is not known for Christ-like miracles as a primary attribute. Many presnt-day priesthood holders perform miracles in the same way Christ's apostles did after his death.
2. Why do you need the Aaronic priesthood to baptize someone when Aaron never baptized anyone?
I'm probably not the best for priesthood questions, since I'm a girl. I'm sure others can refine and correct my answer here. Aaron was the primary priesthood holder, second only to Moses, in his day. The priesthood he held was a "lesser" priesthood in that he didn't have all of the authority (priesthood keys) that have been held at other periods of history. There is no account of him baptising anyone, though we know that the Aaronic priesthood was still held and baptism practised by the Jews prior to Christ's coming, because John the Baptist held this priesthood. Coincidentally, most baptisms, though they can be performed by someone who holds the office of "priest" in the Aaronic priesthood, are performed by "Elders" - the first office held in the Melchizedek - the higher - priesthood.
3. Why are Jews considered gentiles?
The word "gentile" used to denote those who are not members of the LDS church is not an official doctrinal classification. Many refer to those not of our faith as "gentiles," but in our scripture, that designation means those who are not of the House of Israel. We consider Jews to be of the House of Israel, and thus not gentiles. We consider many of our own European ancestors to be gentiles in the scriptural sense, and the Book of Mormon refers to them as such. Those who accept the Gospel, regardless of their ethnic background, are considered as adopted children of Abraham and members of the House of Israel.
4. What are the requirements for being able to enter the temple?
There are various reasons LDS people attend the temple. At the age of 12, one is eligible to attend the temple to serve as proxy for baptisms for the dead. In adulthood, generally just before serving a mission or being married, church members attend the temple for the first time to receive their own temple endowment. A certain level of worthiness must be maintained to be able to return to the temple and perform the endowment ordinances for the dead. The interview to obtain a temple reccommend is the same for everyone who wants to attend the temple. A person's bishop and stake president will interview him or her and ask whether they have been living certain standards. These standards include: "having faith in God the Eternal Father, in his Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost; having a testimony of the restored gospel and loyalty to the teachings and leaders of the Church. Worthiness requirements include being honest, keeping the commandments, such as chastity-sexual continence before marriage and fidelity within marriage-obeying the laws of tithing and the Word of Wisdom, fulfilling family responsibilities and avoiding affiliation with dissident groups." (much better description of it here.
5. What exactly happened at Nauvoo? Why is OSC's LDS forum called Nauvoo?
After being expelled from their settlements in the state of Missouri, early members of the Church found refuge in Illinois. There, they purchased land and founded a city on the Mississippi river that Joseph Smith named Nauvoo, a Hebrew word meaning "beautiful place." At Nauvoo, the church grew and built a second temple (they had been driven from a previous settlement in Kirtland, Ohio, where a temple had been built). The city was not a permanent safe haven for the church, however, and after Joseph Smith was killed by nearby mobs, the Church, led by Brigham Young, moved west to Utah. There is nothing specifically sacred about the city of Nauvoo, though many church members who are interested in the history of the church and their ancestors visit. The temple at Nauvoo has recently been rebuilt and is now again in operation. OSC's Nauvoo site was named such, I believe, because it is a "gathering place for Latter-Day Saints."
6. Are there any callings that are paid?
There are positions that are funded (the prophet and apostles travel extensively and have many of their expenses paid by the church) with Church money, but there are no salaried positions within the church. Teachers for the Church Educational System - the organization that heads Institute programs at colleges and universities - are paid, but these are not callings, they are paid positions. Similarly, many janitorial and secretarial positions are paid, but these are not official church callings.
7. What is the difference between a temple and a church?
The temples are not places of regular worship. They are not like a cathedral or a synagogue. Specific ordinances are performed inside of them and, like Moses's tabernacle and Solomon's temple, only those who are worthy are allowed to enter. There are many members of the church who do not hold temple recommends and are not permitted to enter. A church building (often called a meetinghouse) is meant for weekly worship services and everyone is permitted to enter.
8. Why all the secrecy?
I assume you mean secrecy about the ordinances performed inside the temple. The things that go on inside temples are baptisms, marriages, and ordinances related to personal progression in the gospel. The details about temple ceremonies are not discussed outside of the temple because they are very sacred and are not to be taken lightly. I have seen protesters in Salt Lake City making public mockery of temple clothing and things pertaining to the temple ceremony, and I can assure you that nothing can sorrow a church member more than a mockery of sacred covenants and promises that he or she has made and lives to keep holy. I assume that it is precisely because of the hurtful, mocking things said by people like this that the temple ceremonies are kept sacred. However, one can learn of LDS doctrine and not miss any major differences outside of the temple. Things taught in the scriptures and by our living prophet are available to anyone who is interested and, though there are many mysteries of the Gospel that we still do not fully understand, we are more than willing to discuss anything that can be asked.
9. Why "Elder" as the title?
"Elder" is an office, or level, of the Melchizedek priesthood. We often refer to men in leadership positions and missionaries by this title, much as one would call someone "professor" or "doctor." It does not mean that the person holds a specific position as an "elder" of the church in the same sense as the elders of a village or a tribe. It is simply the level of priesthood they hold. The level above an elder is a high priest. The levels of the Aaronic priesthood are Deacon, Teacher and Priest.
10. If one just wanted to read a portion of the Book of Mormon (maybe one favorite story or something), what would you recommend?
Ooh, this is tough. I always liked the story of King Benjamin, a Nephite king who stood on a tower to address his people before he died. The teachings he gives are very fundamental and poignant, and can be found in the Book of Mosiah, chapters 2 through 4. (You can read those here). I also like the story of the people of Ammon, a formerly bloodthirsty people who repented and accepted the gospel of peace and gave their lives rather than take up arms against their enemies. (OSC based the Battle of Tippecanoe in the Alvin Maker books on this event) Their story is in Alma 23 and 24 ( here)
Edited to add one additional question: 11. Where did G-d the man live before G-d the deity created the universe?
We have no idea. We understand very little about the history of God and know only that He is our Father and that we are His children. We don't know whether His universe was separate from ours or.. well, what. I like to keep up with astrophysics and new ideas on the nature of the universe because they always spark my imagination and I like to conjecture about ways that religious truths are manifested in the really weird things that we are learning about space and time. We also believe that this life is not the end of learning and progression. The eternities will be spent learning new truths until we approach a knowledge of all things. I find this very exciting - as soon as I die, I'm heading straight for God's great big public library to look up a lot of questions I've got. Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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My question about G-d as a man is sorta a prime mover question. Who created the world that G-d lived on as a man if He wasn't a deity yet?
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What I assume, GradStudent, and this comes straight from a source no more credible than the Book of Annie, is that there was a God before him, just as my father had a father.
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posted
There was a big, long discussion about this on another thread a week or so ago that got deleted.
There is no specific doctrine on this that I know of, but it is my personal opinion that the process of mortals becoming Gods has been going on, well, forever.
It was decided in that thread that such a thing is illogical since anything dealing with infinity is illogical.
It is like an exercise in math where you have a set of repeating numbers of 0 and 3. This set of numbers has no beginning and no end. Any 0 you pick is preceded by a 3, as any 3 you pick is preceeded by a 0. Also like a "line" in geometry class, extending to infinity in either direction.
So, no Prime Mover is my understanding.
Edit: This is what I believe is meant by the scriptures saying that God is infinite, eternal, from all eternity to all eternity. The title "God" does not necessarily refer to one being. Rather, we believe it can be used as a title referring to a set of beings who have been exalted and are in perfect unity of purpose.
It goes back and back and back. If you're looking for who was the very first, then the answer is that we don't know. It's another of those things to look up in that Library. It's personally always been a perplexing question for me that I have often wondered about, but I think we're all just going to have to be patient on that one.
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Here's another thought that I had. I think a lot of people assume a religion should have all the answers. It should be able to explain everything. The truth of it from my perspective is that my religion does have all the answers, but some are tailored to my specific dumb little human status, and so there're some things that I ask, even if I "ask in faith, nothing waivering," like the Book of James instructs, that I won't get an in-depth answer to.
When I was little, I asked my dad what was so bad about Chernobyl (I was a nerdy little kid). He answered, the best way he could, that radiation had gotten out and it was dangerous for humans. What's radiation? Why did they have it to begin with? What does "atomic" mean? Of course, my dad couldn't answer all of these questions in a way that I would understand. He gave me approximations - told me things that I could understand from my frame of reference. As I grew older, I learned more about science and gained more insight on the things my dad had told me. His explanations hadn't been entirely accurate, but I wouldn't have understood that level of accuracy anyway.
I see my understanding of spiritual matters in the same light. There are things I understand much better now than I did when I was young - through life experience, the principle of faith has taken on a dimensionality I hadn't seen before. There are still many things that I do not understand, but I believe that God, who may well be able to see things in 4 dimensions the way we see things in 3, explains them to me like my dad explained basic scientific principles to me. Our understanding may be incomplete or insufficient, but as we learn more and study more, we learn "line upon line" and truths become more apparent to us.
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Point of interest: some of the Baptist and other Protestant sects refer to the congregation as "saints". For instance: "We give welcome to the saints gathered here today." or "Let the saints all sing together for the glory of the Lord."
I'm not a preacher, so I am sure that I have phrased that improperly, but you get the idea.
posted
I quoted a little above. The "communion of saints" is part of a creed that I believe most Protestant denominations still use. It has a specific meaning, alluded to above and likely a little different in other denominations.
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I want to put in a good word for 3 Nephi, chapter 17. This is my favorite chapter in the Book of Mormon.
Here it is, for ease of reference. The first time I read it, my hair stood on end and tears came to my eyes. And ever since then, it's the first place I turn whenever I need to find again the knowledge that we are blessed and well beloved, that we may retain or regain the innocence and purity of children. For me this passage is filled with beauty and light that no darkness can ever dispel. When Christ blesses the children and weeps, when the angels come down from heaven and minister to those children, when they are encircled about with fire ... I just know when I read this that I am one of those children. "Behold your little ones."
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quote: 10. If one just wanted to read a portion of the Book of Mormon (maybe one favorite story or something), what would you recommend?
If you've read OSC's Homecoming series, the first few books of the Book of Mormon will seem awfully familiar .
I commend the sections already suggested, but if you want to cut to the chase, read Third Nephi (about 2/3s the way through the book) where Jesus Christ actually appears to a group of people on the American Continent after His ressurection. If you believe in the Bible you likely won't have a problem with the doctrines taught, the real question is whether it actually happened. Toward the end of the Book of Mormon it tells how you can find out.
It was interesting reading the few responses people wrote to the outlined questions. I thought they were pretty consistent, and where they varied it reflects pretty well the range of ideas mormons have on the subject.
I've noticed, especially as I've participated on Ornery, that I can really identify with the ideas Catholic members post. It kind of surprised me, I guess because I don't have a lot of first hand experience with devout Catholics and the media portrays them in other ways.
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Ether 12 is a very good doctrinal, mostly stand alone chapter about faith and what it means to be a disciple of Christ. It's one of my favorites.
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quote: Or even somebody that has reached a certain level of righteousness.
Meeep. Thank you for playing. A saint is someone who relies on Christ, not someone who has done certain things. All church members should be saints.
Johnathan Howard, have you read all the information at mormon.org yet?
Joseph smith didn't perform miracles. He was simply authorized by Peter to use God's power on earth, and he transferred this authority to many others.
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I would recommend all of the Book of Mormon sections that have been mentioned above. I would add the following comments:
1. Mosiah chapters 2-4 are probably the best summations of the Gospel of Jesus Christ I have seen (except for the Sermon on the Mount) 2. Alma Chapters 32 and 34 are great treatises on faith and the earthly mission of Jesus Christ, respectively. 3. Alma 36 is a beautiful story of a man's conversion from unbelief to faith. 4. 2 Nephi 4:15-35 is an especially moving and poetic psalm-like section. In fact, it is sometimes referred to as the "Psalm of Nephi."
quote: Or even somebody that has reached a certain level of righteousness.
Meeep. Thank you for playing. A saint is someone who relies on Christ, not someone who has done certain things. All church members should be saints.
That's exactly what I was saying. Let's put what I said back in context:
quote:a "saint" does not denote someone you pray to.
quote: Or even somebody that has reached a certain level of righteousness. Anybody who is a member of Christ's church and is trying to follow Him is a saint
posted
Sorry to take you out of context, Porter, but the "certain level of righteousness" still gets me. Unless by a certain level of righteousness, you mean realizing that our own works cannot save us.
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I'm saying that we don't call people saints because of some status that they have achieved. We call them saints because they are trying to follow Christ.
It seems to be exactly what you are saying. I don't see what your problem with what I said is.
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I would argue that being a saint isn't something you just profess to. There is effort involved - the entire process of sanctification. Mosiah 3 talks pretty extensively on how we overcome the natural man and become saints.
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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Very true, Annie, yet since we are all striving to "put off the natural man and become a saint" I think it is appropriate for us to call one another "saints." As has been said before, this moniker does not imply a state of greater worthiness or personal holiness, but that we are all striving to become better human beings.
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