posted
What you're missing, Joe, is that the actual extreme -- "we don't like newbies, and think they're all scum who deserve hazing" -- is an opinion that doesn't exist at Hatrack at all. So those of us who share your opinion find ourselves representatives of an "extreme" which is, rationally, actually the middle ground.
The choice on Hatrack is between being reasonably welcoming of all newbies and absolutely welcoming of all newbies. When put that way, some of the arguments on this thread come off as pretty basic hyperbole.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
You guys are perfectly right. I apologize for any hurt or upset I caused. I was thinking out loud. What I realized (understand that what I'm saying is nothing at all like what people seem to say I'm saying... just I happen to know that it happens over and over that really cool nice people like I3 get turned off here at the very start by snideness and humor which is not intended as nasty as it comes off, but which to a new person it totally IS that nasty) Anyway, there I go trying to explain again when this post is really just to say that I realized .... and it took me totally by surprise... but what I said is exactly true.
I have no interest in coolness. I'm not cool. It's something that seems to be important here now. I really and truly honestly just don't belong.
I should have come to this realization quietly and slipped away unnoticed. I apologize for that too. I just blurted out what I was thinking. It took me by surprise. Best wishes to all. I enjoyed my seven years here.
Oh, and my profoundest thanks to all the prayers and good wishes for Sasha. I wanted to let you know that he's doing absolutely awesome lately and I know your prayers were a part of that.
posted
I don't get it. I'm sorry, but I just don't. I don't understand how you could think you don't belong here, Tatiana. It doesn't make sense to me. Although it's not like you owe me an explanation or anything, so I'll just say this. If you decide to leave, I for one will miss you. I suspect many others will, too. I also hope you'll come back. But I'd rather you didn't leave.
Having said that, you have to do what you feel is best, but if you do decide that you won't be here anymore, then just make sure that it's because it's what you want and will bring you happiness, not because you think you don't belong.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Anne Kate, the door is always open, and there will always be a lot of work and play to do here. Coming back or changing your mind now wouldn't mean you owe anyone any explanations. Remember that.
As for me, I'm going to hold some Tatiana in my life, if I may. I still have a lovely, lovely long letter which has sat on my desktop far to long without a real reply.
((((((Tatiana)))))), who will continue to be the soul and spirit of Hatrack to me.
I think only you can answer this question. I remember it being said that if you have to ask the question, the answer is "yes". Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I withdraw my endorsement from Icarus as a pillar of the community. Unless he does some serious editing. I think the ethic of not editing is okay for those who never have an emotional outburst, but for the rest of us mortals I think it would be best.
I'm not siding with Tatiana either. Edit: See how easty that was?
[ January 15, 2005, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Trisha the Severe Hottie ]
Posts: 666 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
I think it's pretty funny that someone can pretend to be all inclusive and yet can tell me that I'm incredibly stupid to smoke tobacco no matter how little I do it.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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Perhaps we should have a welcome committee, a person or persons who do initial greetings when they see a new poster, and, if necessary, point them in the right direction of Hatretiquette, instead of everyone either ignoring or leaping on a bad or misplaced first post.
If this doesn't seem like too crazy an idea (if it is, just say), I'd be honoured to be part of a Hatrack greeting group.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
But what if you miss someone? I guess you can always assign yourself a mission of greeting new people. One way to keep on top of it is to click on a profile and change the last few numbers in the address line. That will take you to the profile of whatever member number you choose. From there you can check their last posts.
Posts: 666 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
I'm not sure that I can say anything here without the thread gyrating into a love/hate fest, with everyone complaining or complimenting Icarus or Tatiana.
Let's remove the people and look at the ideas they represented. The bulk of Tatiana's argument is that we should be automatically accepting of the new folks. From what I understand of Icarus' POV, such a stance is not really practical, or even neccessary. Communities DON'T give automatic acceptance, though Hatrack does very, very good at welcoming n00bs on the whole.
In my interpretation, there's nothing wrong with either of these points of view-- I happen to think Icarus' is more correct, though.
Icarus, please let me know if I've gone wrong somewhere with this.
So, in practical terms, where are we now? :grin: The same place we started, more or less. Ten pages of. . . topical meandering, really. But we never get anywhere with this topic. And I don't see anything wrong with that. Jatraqueros need to accept that some n00bs are going to come in, prejudices blazing, and someone's going to have to take them down to protect the integrity of the forum. And when that someone complains, some other Jatraquero will be around to soothe and smooth folks' feelings.
posted
Topical meandering and Ralphie worship. You can't forget the Ralphie worship.
I think another point that I made earlier but it was so long ago, I don't mind making it again, is that part of being a community is that some are inevitably more connected than others. Or the quality of the connection is different.
Posts: 666 | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote: I withdraw my endorsement from Icarus as a pillar of the community
I don't think anyone is or isn't a "pillar" due to anyones endorcment...or lack of one either. My idea of a pillar of Hatrack doesn't have to mesh with anyone else, precisly because this isn't a popularity contest.
It is a place where we meet to discuss things and meet people we normally wouldn't meet IRL.
ak, you can leave if you want, but I will miss you. I am not asking you to stay though, as that is a personal decision.
Keep in mind that you had PLENTY of people mentioning how important you were to them here, and saying that they loved you and your attitude.
Even Icarus said that you, or your views, were necessary for this place to work, that it had to be a give and take for it to work.
It takes all sorts of people to make an on-line community work, and if everyone has to agree with you on this then that isn't a very flexible position to have. Not a lot of give and take there, you know what I mean? I wouldn't want to be here if I had to be nice and welcome all the CS's, BC's, and other trolls (or wannabe trolls). It wouldn't;t be worth my time or effort because they disrupt the place too much.
But if everyone was always in my face then it wouldn't be much fun either. I gave each of those kids a chance, which I wouldn't have bothered to do IRL, probably, because I DO feel that we have an obligation to ourselves and to others to try to welcome anyone who is willing to contribute in a meaningful way.
If you feel that you don;t fit here, that is your business. But NOBODY is universally loved, at least not to the point of everyone agreeing with everything someone says on this topic.
If a ton of people posting and praising you can't make a difference the I don't know what will.
Good Luck with whatever you do, and I hope to see you back soon.
posted
Alright, being a newbie and considering this is my first post I thought I should introduce myself here, in the proverbial lions den.
I'm not joining the forum to try and make people angry or be controversial I have just been a fan of Orson Scott Card's work for about seven years now.
It's horrible how people feel the need to try and damage communities of people who simply wish to talk with like minded people and just as often people who aren't like minded but can express themselves in an intelligent, intellectual way.
It's also sad that people can not feel comfortable enough with themselves to have a sense of humor and be so easily offended. My own name is a bit of a joke, the character Bork in The Bulley and The Beast who was very kind but also a bit clumsy and large much like myself. :-)
I hope to be active on these forums and become an accepted member of the hatrack community and also I wish for constructive crticism on my forum etiquette as I have never been a regular poster on a forum.
On a side note, I think it would be a good idea to make new forum members answer a simple question about one of OSC's books, ask them what book they liked best and if they say Alvin Maker series ask them a simple question like 'Who died in the Hatrack River?' Would weed out some of the stupid people...
posted
Not everyone here has even read a Card book. Some are here because friends recommended the site. Some read OSC's columns. Some came from Ornery. Lots of people. The endless fandom, speculation, questions about OSC's books is on the other half of the forum. We sometimes get to help with new books, too.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Welcome Bork! I am only familiar with the Supreme Court nominee Bork, but I liked his beard.
We have had a couple of members who hadn't read OSC. TMedina was one. So it's not an absolute requirement. Though I think it would be as odd as someone choosing not to eat chocolate. <---doesn't eat chocolate.
Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I'm not a big chocolate fan either, and any person who has read Ender's game and said they don't like the book need an examination, it can't be normal. I know people who detest science fiction and love Ender's Game.
Edit: P.S. Mother Tree, I suggest highly you read the short story Bulley and the Beast in Maps in a Mirror, in my opinion one of Card's best short stories.
Edit2: Wow, I spelled Bully wrong in 2 seperate posts....heh heh, correct name is BULLY and the beast.
posted
Okay, but I'm trying to gt over the Hatrack Puppy status.
My grandmother gives us (my brother and I) some chocolate, usually made overseas from fine ingredients.
So I merely put it in the fridge. The following day I notice one little block of subsance remains; a quick investigation, handled by my brother - leads to my mother. She immediately apologises and puts a new packet in the fridge (lower quality, of course).
The next day, the packet's gone. Look here, look there, look all around - nada. Let's just say that when my mother asks me for chocolate, I tell her it's unhealthy (she's in to it now). She still owes me a packet of expensive Lindt's finest "Sweet cherry jelly inside" Swiss.
posted
Heh heh, my Mother told me when she was a teenager, the doctor told her not to eat any more sweets. Well, one day she was walking through a store eating a candy bar and the doctor caught her. Took her candy bar and walked through the store eating the rest of it...
I've met the doctor before, he still practices, he's one of my favorites and the only person I would let stitch my head when I was a kid.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Welcome to Hatrack, Bork. I recognized the name from the short story immediately, and actually wondered if it would end up being from somewhere else. Over the years there have been a number of people whose names could have been from OSC stories but weren't. Have fun, make friends, and be cautious Hatracking when eating or drinking, unless your monitor and keyboard have protective coatings.
posted
In the book The Crystal City there was a character named Papa Moose, based off a real person who won a trivia contest at Endercon the prize was oringinally a cameo appearance however OSC turned him into a major character, and the character was named after winners forum persona Papa Moose, so the person who started this thread and who I refer to is the person who won it apparantly.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Jan 2005
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As you might well see, some of us are those who choose our names. TomDavidson, for instance (several honour/humour threads for him), Sara Sasse (who is the gate to Hatrack's holy shrine), Bob_Scopatz, Annie, Anna, I etc.
And some choose psudonyms, such as yourself, Bean Counter, Papa Moose etc.
Why am I writing this?
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Jonathan - You know, I kind of like your enthusiasm and sociability. It's very endearing. So, when I say this I say it with love: think, then post, Spanky. You'll save yourself all these confused "What?? What's going on!?" posts.
Posts: 7600 | Registered: Jan 2001
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