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Author Topic: Why is PTO so friggin inclusive?
Space Opera
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I think this is a vent/rant. The last 2 out of 3 PTOs I have been part of sucked - and that includes our new school. I had asked last week in the office about meetings, and was told that they didn't have them due to low parental involvement. Ummm, ok.

So they had an advertised PTO workday today in order to count and clip Campbell's labels. I decided to go because I really want to be a part of things. I met the PTO president in the office and she was pretty friendly. We go to the room where they're working at, and everyone proceeds to talk to each other and act like I'm not there. Finally after standing there feeling awkward for several minutes, I say, "Umm, I feel kind of awkward being here - we just moved to this school last month," and gave my name. So everyone gives their's, a few people ask where I'm from and what class my kids are in - and that's it - for the rest of the 2 hours I'm there.

I was the only person there who wasn't in the "in" crowd and felt it. They all know each other very well, and talked the entire time. The only time I was spoken to was when I tried to add to a conversation. There were no questions about me, no trying to get to know me, and I was sorry that I even showed up. I asked the president what else I could do to help, and was told that they send out a school-wide notice when they need something. Ok - I'm a SAHM who literally has the whole day free with no kids, I've offered to help in any capacity, and they don't even want my phone number.

Perhaps my experience is why they have low parental involvement? I don't know that I want to go back and help again.

I've thought about this for some time, due to a similar experience at another school, and I've come up with a theory. Most heavily-involved PTO moms don't work, so this is one of their big social interactions. And like any other big social interactions, PTO has a food chain of sorts. Newbies are treated badly because they haven't yet earned their stripes.

But this is one newbie who doesn't want to earn the stripes anymore. I left this morning hoping to make some friends in a new town and become involved in my children's school. I came back home feeling rejected and bad about myself. I almost wonder if I should call the school, politely relate my experience, and suggest that there might be a very good reason for lack of parental involvment. [Frown]

space opera

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Synesthesia
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Don't feel bad... It seems like people do that ALL THE TIME. It's very frustrating joining new groups because of it.
Perhaps it works to be a bit assertive, to come up with strong ideas or something that gets you noticed.
Or, don't give up.. Try to make friends with them one at a time.
I should try doing stuff like this when it comes to joining certain groups but I am hyper-shy.
I wonder if they would think it audatious to thorw a getting to know all of you party or something...

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Lady Jane
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*hugs Space Opera* I hate being new.
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PSI Teleport
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It's interesting that when ever I see PTO I don't think of PTA, but rather PTL.
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TomDavidson
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I find that volume helps. But, then, I prefer being remembered as the loud, obnoxious guy who thought he was really funny to not being remembered at all. For some reason, not everyone thinks that this is a superior approach. [Smile]
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sarcasticmuppet
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What's PTL? [Dont Know]
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PSI Teleport
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It's the "ministry" that Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker started. It stands for "Praise the Lord".
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Farmgirl
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Well, when I didn't like the local Parent-Teacher Organization when my kids were in school -- I took over and became president. They are always begging for officers, because no one wanted to do it.

My sister was V.P. We had a racket going....

[Big Grin] FG

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beverly
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I have never heard of "PTO". It took me a minute to get a feel for what you were talking about. "O" for "Organization"?

Sorry 'bout the politics. [Frown]

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Irami Osei-Frimpong
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Last year, I moderated a discussion group for black parents who were intimidated by the school's overwhelming white PTA-- yes there here overwhelmingly white-- it's a diverse school with a huge achievement gap that starts manifesting in the third grade.

It gave me a few ideas, but no answers. The PTA parents were well-meaning, and the black parents were getting mixed signals from the teachers and the other parents. It's a mess, and it started made me appreciate the slim merits of segregation. In retrospect, making sure that there is a clearly articulated list of shared values and goals helps, but even that assumption opens up some problems, not to say those problems should be overlooked, but these are some pesky problems. Like parents who are impressively academic and comfortable in a classroom vs. parents who aren't as proficient and have mixed and complex feeling about education, each wanting a hand in the classroom and wanting to be equally validated.

It's funny how much the problems in society don't change when people get older. It's the same problems and the same insecurities, revealing themselves in different ways.

[ January 14, 2005, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]

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Ela
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Space Opera, I had a similar experience when we first moved to a small Jewish day school. In this school the problem was exacerbated by the fact that many of the parents were alums of the school and had known each other since childhood. I just kept going to meeting and volunteering for stuff until I started to be included. (I am very stubborn and persistant. [Razz] )

In my son's high school, which he's been in for 2 1/2 years, now, I haven't really gotten similarly involved, though. Working fulltime with a husband out of time on business a lot made it hard for me to participate.

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Sara Sasse
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quote:
It's funny how much the problems in society don't change when people get older. It's the same problems and the same insecurities, revealing themselves in different ways.
Absolutely. I wish I had some good advice, but my own discomfort with these situations is acute, and it's usually my reason for hiding in a convenient bathroom.
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gnixing
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and here, i thought this thread was going to be about Personal Time Off...
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Irami Osei-Frimpong
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I wonder how many of these problems have to do with interfacing.

These are Cain and Abel issues. I really think that a lot white guys are Abel, and the rest of the world are Cains trying to find some sense of dignity short of slaying the Abels. I know that was the case in Minnesota. Remember, in the Book, there isn't a reason God prefers Abel's gift to Cain's, it's just how it is and Cain has issues in sucking up.

In Berkeley/Oakland it's a little bit different. These black parents know that the white parents don't mean any harm, but the whole school system is geared toward the strengths of the white parents, and the black parents have to cope without seeming petty, and the white parents go about their business without knowing that the black parents were marginalized and woefully insecure. This is especially problematic considering that the entire world and Bill Cosby is telling them to get involved in their kid's education.

[ January 13, 2005, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]

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ctm
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I've suffered through the same thing many times, SPace Opera, it is so hard isn't it? I like Farmgirl's solution of taking over... I've learned to try to look for a sympathetic face and gravitate towards that person. Otherwise, hang in there... which is hard to do I know, especially when it can take years to break through...

A friend of mine, who moved into the area a year or so ago always impresses me with her ability to reach out and form connections-- she and her family were part of the group in no time, and she always reaches out to new people. I'm trying to be more like her... Since I know how hard it is, I should be more wiling to reach out to newbies myself, but I'm shy enough that it is hard...

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Space Opera
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Thanks everybody. I suppose eventually I'll decide to go back and volunteer some more - it's just right now I'm pretty mad, to be honest.

I'm also lonely. I'm sick of being the new person! I've had to be the new person twice in one year! I still miss my old friends and don't see any replacements on the horizon.

I told myself last March when we moved that I would make friends. I never did, but was beginning to recognize people around town and have friendly conversations with other moms at the school. Then we moved again, and now I'm having to start all over.

The funny thing is, it wasn't like I saw my old friends a ton. But I knew they were there. I miss that security and I really miss that feeling of complete acceptance I had with them. I guess I never realized how much I depended on that.

space opera

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Farmgirl
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(((Space Opera )))

Big hugs from us. Hang in there! Just keep going back and including yourself and pretty soon you won't be the new person..

and you will be much more sensitive to the next new person that comes along...

Farmgirl

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jeniwren
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(( Space Opera )) I think the hardest part of moving is the lack of familiar faces. I knew after I moved to Bellingham (not a big town) that it was finally home when I ran into someone I knew while I was out doing errands. Now it happens all the time, and every time it does, I get a warm feeling. It's not like they have to be close friends...it's just the familiar face, knowing that my face is familiar to them too.

Keep plugging away at it, but in the meantime, you might see if there's an organization for volunteers in your community. Since you have the day free, you could volunteer someplace that would truly appreciate your giving spirit. It wouldn't be with the school, but at least you'd be appreciated and welcomed.

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Lyrhawn
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I've been pretty heavily involved in the PTSA (Parent Teacher Student Association, though just last year became the PTO) for awhile, which is funny considering I'm only 20. The PTSA at elementary school, junior high and especially my high school was like an army. They organized and had drives, fundraisers, chaperoned dances, everything and anything. They were hardcore. My dad has been president of the PTO at my old high school for the last six years I think, because he's so good at it they can't find anyone to replace him even though I've left high school.

I guess it depends on the community, but everyone here is very welcoming of outsiders, so long as they want to help. Maybe they need something to get them moving and motivated. Sounds like they are in a rut.

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Goody Scrivener
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For those who don't know the difference:
PTA (Parent Teacher Association) is a nationally recognized and controlled group. Each member school has to have certain specific legal forms and procedures, much like a corporation. They're VERY restricted in terms of what they can or cannot do... i.e they cannot endorse a political candidate even if that candidate's platform is one that will directly benefit the children; fundraisers are limited to certain types and for certain types of goals that must be specified and documented at the beginning of the school year. Excess money cannot be rolled over at the end of the year to the next year's board, so if they make too much, they hae to find a way to spend it, which of course screws things up in terms of their monthly minutes and missions (I was secretary on a board that over-collected... what a mess that was!!!) However, they also have a huge network and a combined voice in Washington.

PTO (Parent Teacher Organization) is essentially PTA without Big Brother. In my experience, though, Big Brother turned out to be something of a good thing, especially when the entire board has NO friggin clue of what to do at any time. Having a designated contact person who can walk you through procedure was a huge help, and had I not done PTA and its executive board for a year before transferring to a school with PTO, I'd have run screaming in terror. Instead, I found myself in the position of being the only one with any kind of plan.

As for Space's experience with the clique-y PTO mommies, calling a school staff member will do you no good at all unless you get lucky and talk to someone who is actually active in the PTO. In my experience, teachers who are willing to put even MORE unpaid time into school stuff are pretty few and far between. If your school was a PTA school, they would be required to have at least one staff member on the executive board. Getting her to attend meetings, though, is a totally different can of worms. As long as a majority is present at an executive meeting, including the President and Secretary, or board members designated by proxy to act on their behalfs, business can continue. Doesn't matter if the same committee leader misses every single meeting all year long just so long as you have a majority present.

If this question had been asked of me 4 years ago, I'd say that absolutely joining the PTA/PTO was the best way to meet other moms and dads. But even being the secretary for one year under PTA and unofficial president (because they were all scratching their butts) of the PTO the next, I still didn't meet very many people.

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vwiggin
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quote:
I'm also lonely. I'm sick of being the new person! I've had to be the new person twice in one year! I still miss my old friends and don't see any replacements on the horizon.
Hey, what are we, chop liver? [Razz]

I thought this was a continuation of the IBM patent thread.

(note to self, have kids so I can participate in more threads.)

[ January 14, 2005, 01:18 AM: Message edited by: vwiggin ]

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Kwea
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quote:
It's funny how much the problems in society don't change when people get older. It's the same problems and the same insecurities, revealing themselves in different ways.
Irami, I had noticed the same thing myself. It is funny how people are, almost like their personality stops developing in some ways in high school. I know that I sometimes have the same exact feelings and insecurities now that I had years ago in school, I just deal with those feelings more effectively now and don't let them interfere with what I want/need to get done.

But it doesn't change the fact that I feel that way.

Kwea

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