posted
Has there already been a thread on this? I didn't see one, but I expect I just overlooked it.
In any case, how can the Catholic Church in *any* country go directly against Vatican policy on something and still be Catholic? My understanding what that policy changes like this could come only from the Vatican itself. Am I wrong?
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posted
I saw that article (or one similar) and wondered what Dagonee thought about it -- but didn't post anything, nor have I seen any posts about it.
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posted
The article doesn't give me enough information to understand what the new position really is. Deatils matter very much in these things. Does anyone know where there is an English translation of the actual statement?
posted
The BBC News story on the subject isn't much more specific than the USA Today article I linked to initially, but it does contain one quote that puzzled me further.
quote:The Vatican has not issued a definitive statement on the use of condoms, but many of its officials oppose campaigns promoting them.
They must mean that the Vatican hasn't issued a definitive statement on the effectiveness of condoms at preventing HIV infection, but that isn't what they say.
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posted
I loved when last year the Cardinal for family affairs, in an address to African bishops, claimed that Condoms are intentionally designed to spread AIDS because they have pores that let the virus through. That was a real laugh riot.
I have nothing but contempt for that entire institution. The world would be better off without it.
Posts: 1769 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Well, speaking as an apostate Catholic who attended church for the first time in 7 years for my grandfather's funeral, I would like to say something about tolerance and the Church.
I am tolerant of many things, many beliefs, institutions and people. I even tolerate many practicing Catholics. What I cannot tolerate is the Catholic Church, not out of blind, irrational hatred, but because of the damage the Church has caused. With reform, it could be a valuable institution, but currently, it only serves to harm humanity.
My great uncle was a clergyman. I knew little about his parish until after he died, after which it came to light just what was happening to the parishioner’s money. It seems that the parish had decided to invest in racehorses. This investment did not give them the anticipated returns and bankrupt the parish. So, naturally, they simply relied on their congregation to bail them out.
This summer my grandfather became very ill. His heart, never the strongest organ in his body (that honor would always be his brain) was rapidly deteriorating, and his lungs were filling with fluid. On his deathbed, he told me why he, a practicing and devout Catholic, hated the Church. He grew up in Quebec during great depression. If you are familiar with the history of the region, you will understand why this devout man would call the Church an organization of "gangsters". He proudly told of how his father was the lone person in his town that would stand up to the bullying of the Church.
When my Grandfather died, we decided not to have anything to do with his brother's parish, so we decided to have his service at a nearby church we were not familiar with. As per his wishes, he was cremated, and his ashes scattered half in the Pacific and half in the Atlantic. This displeased Father Peter immensely, he demanded more money to hold the service in his church, so instead we decided to have a service at my mother's house and have him speak there. Not knowing the deceased, and showing a marked lack of interest in him, he saw fit to commemorate the dead by berating the non-believers in the audience, praising the Passion of the Christ, and condemning our Province's supreme court for allowing gay marriage. I wish I could say I made up that last part.
I know what I have just described is anecdotal and not data in any hard sense, but I see it as evidence of a greater malaise within the Catholic Church. If the Church was truly a divine instrument, I would expect more compassion and less sanctimonious hypocrisy and callous disregard for human suffering. Aside from private grievances with the church that baptised me, as a student of history, I find it impossible to forgive the incalculable harm that the Church has done to humanity in the past, and continues to do today. I could give countless examples, but it's not hard to guess what I am speaking of.
That is why I have no tolerance for the Church. Forgive me, but I don't see why I should tolerate them.
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posted
Hmm, after following the link, my comment does seem to be unnecessarily angry.
I had assumed that this thread was about the re-reversal, not the initial reversal, which if it had lasted more than a few hours, would have been at least a small step towards a friendlier, less destructive church.
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posted
"On his deathbed, he told me why he, a practicing and devout Catholic, hated the Church."
I don't see how it's possible to both be a devout Catholic and simultaneously not believe that the Catholic Church is God's instrument on Earth.
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quote: I loved when last year the Cardinal for family affairs, in an address to African bishops, claimed that Condoms are intentionally designed to spread AIDS because they have pores that let the virus through. That was a real laugh riot.
I have nothing but contempt for that entire institution. The world would be better off without it.
quote: Ah, tolerance on Hatrack is such a lovely thing.
While I agree Chaeron went a little overboard there at the end, how can anyone condone those kind of tatics? It's not like we're talking simply matters of faith, we're talking the actual physical health of someone people who may not be part of their spiritual responsibility.
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My grandfather was brought up in a time and place where a corrupt church used their authority to steal from and manipulate the public. They accepted huge sums of money from the anglophone Protestant political establishment in exchange for controling the poor francophone Catholic majority in the province. My great grandfather was one of the rare wealthy Catholics who was not closely tied to the Church. This, and his habit of making friends with Protestants invoked the ire of the local clergy. This was in a time when very few were brave enough to challenge a church which, for entirely selfish reasons conspired to keep their own congregation a subjugated lower class. While this would make it strange that my grandfather would simulaneously accept Catholic religious doctrine, cognitive dissonance is not exactly an uncommon phenomena.
posted
Tom, Italians were famous for going to church three times in their lives. Once for their baptism, another for their marriage, and one last time for their funeral. Basically there have been institutional Catholics who pay great heed to the Church and make church a part of their daily lives. In comparison to the Italians, Irish-Americans immigrants attended Mass on a regular basis, had their children taught at parochial schools, and even used the Church to funnel money back to Ireland in order to sustain chain migration. Italian-American immigrants didn't attend Mass regularly, sent their children to public schools, and when they funneled money back to Italy they didn't use the clergy.
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