posted
So, a while ago I started holding the door open for people when classes let out. Mostly I wanted to see how many people would say thank-you (the fact that I need an ulterior motive to do a good deed is sad, I know, I'm working on it). Well if pressed on the issue I probably would've guessed that a higher percentage of girls would say thank-you than guys (not sure why exactly), but it wasn't my original purpose to compare, since I figured that trying to keep track of ratio of genders would be too difficult. However, I was so surprised that after holding the door open for a class of 90 people, only around 7 said thank-you and all of them where guys I started keeping track. Well over the months I've held open the door for literally thousands of people, admittedly high percentage male (30 to 40% female), however, in this entire time not a single female has said thank-you. The guys aren't doing so hot at about one in every 10 to 20 saying thank-you, but I'm totally surprised by this discovery.
Now this is different than holding open the door for someone I'm walking with, when almost 100% of the time a girl will say thank-you, and slightly less (though still at a very high percentage) a guy will say thank-you.
I have absolutely no theories on why this is, I'm throwing it out there for you Hatrackers to take a look at.
posted
Well, there is that thing about someone opening a door for you being a form of patronization. I appreciate it personally and always say thanks, but then I didn't make it into a brand-name school.
Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I don't know what all Hobbes made it into, but he doesn't go to a brand name school. Purdue's a land grant school through and through.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
You've got to only hold the door for two or three people at a time. Otherwise your numbers will be messed up. People will think that you've already been thanked, and it's less of a favor.
When I hold the door, it's only for a couple people at a time, and thanking percentage is around 50%, even between guys and girls.
Posts: 1592 | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
The percentages are probably much lower on college campuses than in other areas of the same region, mainly because people walk around lost in thought, or just in a daze.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:I don't know what all Hobbes made it into, but he doesn't go to a brand name school. Purdue's a land grant school through and through.
Thanks Fugu. I don't recall ever posting either of these things...
quote:I swear, if I stuck out my foot and deliberately tripped someone, they'd say sorry to me.
Come to Canada, my friend and get thanked.
Yah, that and get called America's little brother.
quote:You've got to only hold the door for two or three people at a time. Otherwise your numbers will be messed up. People will think that you've already been thanked, and it's less of a favor.
When I hold the door, it's only for a couple people at a time, and thanking percentage is around 50%, even between guys and girls.
Well even if that is the case, I'm curious as to why it's different based on gender.
posted
Or maybe they all secretly burn with a white-hot passion for you, and can't bear to speak to you and open up the possibility of rejection.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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1. I always say thank you when someone holds a door for me, even when I'd rather they hadn't, except for when they hold the door open in such a way I have to walk under their arm to get out. In other words, I'm on the inside, and reach to open the door, and a guy on the outside reaches past and over me to graciously hold it for me, which makes me walk through a "tunnel" created by his body, his arm, and the door. Some guys also do this if they're coming from the other direction... they step out away from the door while continuing to hold it over my head. This forces me to either be in a situation that is physically uncomfortable for me or be extremely rude by refusing to walk through the door while they're holding it, and usually smiling at me like an idiot. I usually go ahead and walk, but I'll be durnned if I'm going to thank them for the priviledge.
2. I do not, in any way, think the following is reflective of Hobbes 's motivation. However, it may help you understand what some of the girls' motivation is.
I was talking with a guy who was complaining about girls not thanking him for holding a door open for them. The conversation went roughly like this:
"So you're just holding it open for them in order to get them to talk to you?"
"No. I'm holding it open to be nice. But since I'm being nice, they should thank me."
"You can't have it both ways. Either you're doing it out of the goodness of your heart, in which case it shouldn't matter if they thank you or not, or you're doing it to put them in obligation to you. If they didn't ask you to open the door and were perfectly capable of opening the door themselves, you're doing it because it's what you want to do. Why should they thank you for doing something you want to do?"
"Because it's polite."
"Yeah... but if you're doing it to get a polite thanks, and you're not getting a polite thanks, you could just stop doing it."
"But I'm not doing it to get thanks. I'm doing it to be nice."
"Then why are you complaining that they don't thank you?"
"Because I'm being nice, so they should thank me."
Minneapolis and St Paul have a wonderful thing called skyways, that connect all the buildings in downtown at the second level. They're usually glass walled, so they kinda look like gerbil runs. In order to keep each building's HVAC systems seperate, they are all seperated by doors. Most of the doors are automatic now, but not all of them. Because of the skyways, the second floor of most buildings is retail and restaurant space. It's like a big, spread out mall.
I walk through the skyways almost every day at lunch, frequently with my good freind Ralph. He laughs regularly about the fact that he opens a lot less doors when he's with me than when he's by himself.
I smile and say thanks every time. If I'm by myself, maybe a third of a time the guy holding the door is just being polite because I'm a random female. Another third of the time he's checking me out, subtly or not, but doesn't say anything beyond maybe you're welcome. The last third uses the door holding as an opportunity to try to strike up a conversation.
I usually keep my polite smile on and keep walking. And like I said, I say thanks every time. But I certainly understand women who don't.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I say thank you every time, no matter what. At least I try to--if I slip up once in a while it's completley unintentional. I try to be very conscious about doing that, as well as I try to hold the door for anyone who might be coming in after me.
I've actually been thinking about this a lot lately. There's a guy in my German class that holds the door open all the time. He even lets half the people in the classroom leave before he does, out of sheer politeness. The doors on our building are doubled at the exits and open outwards, and inspite of the increased difficulty in holding doors open for people here, he still does it every time. The only time I've seen him miss it was at the 2nd door yesterday, and he was trying to get his hat on (being in the Air Force, he had to do that before going outside on uniform day--or dress up day, as I call it--or at least I think that's a rule. I don't know exactly).
It's made me wonder a lot recently why more people don't do this. I've really just be so impressed with this guy's thoughtfulness and politeness. It's made me a lot more aware of what's going on around me.
Good job for being thoughtful and polite, Hobbes. I would (and do!) say thank you. Posts: 119 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I always say thank you when someone hold a door open for me, even if I'm last in a long string of people. I just think it is polite if someone has takent he time to stop and hold the door that I acknowledge that act. I am also on a college campus. Thinking back, not many people thank people who hold doors. However, we also have a Frat who prode themselves on being "gentlemanly." So I think man people on campus have come to take the service for granted and just always think it is someone from that Frat. But I was raised to say thank you when some one holds the door for me, so dawg on it, I'm gonna say it.
posted
Pretty much everyone here says "Thanks" for an opened door. The thanks are most often paired with a look of slight astonishment, as if people can't believe that others are polite enough to hold a door for someone.
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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quote:I just think it is polite if someone has takent he time to stop and hold the door that I acknowledge that act.
Exactly. Sometimes people, for whatever reason, will hold doors for me. I always say thank you, because I'm fully aware of the fact that they had the option to just ignore my presence. In fact, that's usually easier. But that they paid attention to the fact that I was right behind them, say, and made the decision to tarry a moment, holding the door, so that I could go through with less effort, is always appreciated. So I always give thanks for it.
Many women, I think, feel a sense of entitlement about this. It's been ingrained in our culture for so long now that men hold doors for women that when it happens, they don't think anything of it. Not only do they not appreciate it, they expect it, and feel a bit put out if it doesn't happen. So many (not all, mind you) women don't feel any obligation to give thanks when a door is held for them, because they consider it something that's just supposed to happen.
A moment's thought would probably show them the error of it, but few women ever have reason to give it a moment's thought. As a man, if I held a door for a woman, and she walked through and simply ignored me, at most I'd feel a little irritated at her . . . what? Arrogance? Selfishness? At any rate, I'd simply go on with my life. I certainly wouldn't call her on it--that would be the worst possible reaction--so she would never even realize she had made an error. She'd just go on with her own life and probably not even notice that here was yet another door that she didn't have to touch. She's so accustomed to not having to touch doors that she doesn't even think about it. She takes it for granted that she doesn't have to touch doors when men are around.
Again, not all women are like that. I've had plenty of women thank me for holding doors. So I'm not trying to make a sweeping statement against women in general here, so put away your nails and crosses, please. I'm just speculating on what's going on in the minds of those particular women who never give thanks for small favors such as door-holding.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Ha, the title of this thread made it sound like Hobbes was about to reveal that he was really Cedrios.
Posts: 4600 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
You know,this whole thread reminds me of the time my sister held a door open for a middle-aged lady at a rest stop and the women didn't thank her.
My sister's pretty blunt and said "Your welcome" anyhow. Not even snarky, just said it.
And the woman turns to her and says "I don't thank people like you" and walks away.
And this has always bugged me because we can't figure out what the lady was talking about!
First of all, my sister was wearing sweat pants. And a baggy jacket. Underneath was a tighter shirt, but it was basically covered by the jacket. We were on the road, so she wasn't wearing a lot of make-up...my sister was obviously around 16/17, so hopefully the woman didn't think she was a woman of ill-repute...we couldn't figure out what the woman could possibly have been referring to!
and more on topic, i always thank people who hold doors. You may be right about some women feeling entitlement, but i certainly don't...i'm always annoyed when my dad or some older man goes "never date a guy who won't open the door for you" I can open my OWN DOOR thank you very much.
Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I always say thank you, but I'm extremely phobic, so whether or not anyone can actually hear me say thank you is another story.
You know, I always hold doors open for people that are right behind me. If you aren't aware of how close a person is behind you, you could really hurt someone who isn't expecting door to come slamming back on them. Granted I'm hypervigilant and all, but I can't imagine going through a door without knowing who is in front of me, and who is behind me and where they are headed. The calculation to just get through a damned door is enormous. And people wonder why I don't like it out there. Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I think that if I was exiting a classroom, unless I was at the front or the back of the group that was leaving, I wouldn't even notice if the door was being held. I probably wouldn't be able to see the person holding the door, if I was in the middle of the group, and I certainly wouldn't have seen the door being opened unless I was at the front of the group. So that would be why I wouldn't say thank you. Have you noticed if it's people at the front and back of the groups that are thanking you, or is it actually spread out through the group?
Also, I think the girls are more likely to be talking in small groups than the guys, and therefore also less likely to notice that the door it being held.
quote: She'd just go on with her own life and probably not even notice that here was yet another door that she didn't have to touch. She's so accustomed to not having to touch doors that she doesn't even think about it. She takes it for granted that she doesn't have to touch doors when men are around.
I realize that things are different in different parts of the country/world, and that I live in a very liberal part. But I would seriously doubt that many women don't notice that there was "yet another door she doesn't have to touch." There is, of course, no way to prove it one way or another, but I'd bet you that more women are not saying thank you because they would prefer to open the door themselves and think strangers holding doors for them is a holdover from a more misogynist era than are not saying thank you because they think it's their due to have the doors held for them.
Not saying that that view isn't out there at all. Just saying there are other reasons that you might not consider.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote: i'm always annoyed when my dad or some older man goes "never date a guy who won't open the door for you" I can open my OWN DOOR thank you very much.
I've had people say this to me as well, but I always looked at it as another way to say: "Don't date a man who doesn't respect you." When it is a person I am dating holding the door open for me, I kind of feel like it shifts from being simply polite to being respectful (I almost feel like that is not the right word) and a show of affection. My dad always opens the door for my mom and it is, in this sense, not a case of politeness but of affection. IMO. I hope that makes sense...
posted
Er, Leonide, you don't think the lady thought your sister was a lesbian, do you?
I think I agree with someone who mentioned it before. I'm sure it's a split between feeling irritated that you opened the door for them when they didn't need it, and feeling like you don't need to be thanked for something they expect you to do.
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Relevant facts: I'm female, and I'm on a (state) university campus
quote:Many women, I think, feel a sense of entitlement about this. It's been ingrained in our culture for so long now that men hold doors for women that when it happens, they don't think anything of it. Not only do they not appreciate it, they expect it, and feel a bit put out if it doesn't happen. So many (not all, mind you) women don't feel any obligation to give thanks when a door is held for them, because they consider it something that's just supposed to happen.
Wow. I certainly don't feel this way. I don't think I've ever encountered this sentiment in anyone else, either. Maybe it's because I'm younger??
As for college campuses, here, (almost) everyone holds doors for the people behind them. Male, female, whatever. I always say thanks, and usually get them as well.
Posts: 2149 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I say thank you when someone -- male or female -- opens/holds open a door for me. I also hold doors for other people (especially if they have kids or packages in tow) as often as I can. Most of the time, I get thank yous from both men and women.
In fact, I have noticed that on days that I am particularly careful to hold doors for others (even if it slows me down a few seconds when I'm in a hurry), more doors get held for me.
I believe that it's a sign of God's justice and benevolence. (And I'm serious, so the first person to makes fun of that gets thwapped.)
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I was walking out of the library yesterday, and I was talking on the phone with Niki, my girlfriend.
I was in mid sentence, and lost in thought when I walked through a door someone was holding.
I hear a loud and very snarky "You're welcome" from the elderly woman holding the door.
This pissed me off like you wouldn't believe. I've held literally THOUSANDS of doors for people, and have been thanked maybe 50% of the time. You know what, I don't mind when they don't thank me even one little bit. I am not holding the door to be thanked.
If you are holding the door for me to be thanked, then don't. I would rather you didn't. Even so, this was maybe the first time in my life I didn't thank. The woman who made the comment was FAR more rude for saying it than I was for not thanking her. Ask any manners column and they will agree. To those people who make snarky comments after people don't thank you, please stop opening doors for people. You may pretend to be doing a nice thing, but you aren't. You do it to feel better than them.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I've never expected anyone to open a door for me. It was a strange and new experience when I came to college and it started happening. I hardly knew what to do. Some of the guys I know from Church get upset if I don't wait for them to open the door for me. I am totally capable of doing it on my own and at first it was actually kind of weird to get used to, but I've reflected on this a lot in the last three weeks, and for me at least, it gives a definite sense of respect. I immediately feel much more friendly towards someone who is so thoughtful to do so and they are those whom I would like to become aquainted with. I like being around the guy in my German class who is so good with this because I feel like he genuinely cares about other people...and who doesn't like knowing someone like that?
As a note...I was definitely more aware and took more time to open doors for others, and thank those who opened them for me.
Posts: 119 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
You can make too much of holding open a door. I've had people hold open a door when I wasn't anywhere near the door, which forced me to break into a run because I thought it would be rude to just make the person sit there until I got to the door, which was irritating.
I had a thread about this before, but with women, you run into a danger of women getting pissed at you for not holding a door, or not taking over door holding duties when it's their turn, forcing you to decide between letting the door slam into their face or having to sit there and hold the door for the next person in line.
Really, this whole door holding thing is often more annoyance than its worth.
posted
So here's an interesting reversal of this subject.
When I was a writing tutor I edited a paper written by a guy that had done an experiment like this for a class. But his experiment was watching to see which gender held the doors open more often. Portland is a really polite city for the most part and on campus everyone's pretty courteous. Usually if you're rushing through a door, you check to see if anyone is behind you and stop to hold it open long enough so the person can walk through unimpeded. Everyone does this (and I always say thank you when anyone does it for me) and this guy writing the paper just sat in the same place at the same time every day and watched a very popular exit door to see what would happen.
I would have thought that the ratio would be rather balanced...not so. It was guys that held the doors almost 70% of the time. Hmmm. Are girls just inconsiderate? Or are we all expecting a guy to do it? I'm kidding, and I know that this wasn't the most water tight experiment...but it's still interesting.
Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Amen. (Edit: I got distracted... The amen was to Storm's first post.)
As long as I'm being negative...Lisha-princess, your thing about guys getting upset if you don't let them hold the door for you... you decided you like this?
I've gone on dates where we were going in somewhere, like a movie theater, with a double set of doors. The guy opened the first one. I smiled, said thank you, and walked through. I'm now ahead of him. I open the second, and hold it for him. He won't go through it. Absolutely refuses to walk through a door I'm holding open for him, he has to take it from me and I have to walk through first.
I don't like anything that someone feels the need to "give" to me but will not "accept" from me. It's common courtesy. It makes sense for me to open the second door. No, in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal... but it shouldn't be a huge deal for him to walk through it, either. (This has happened more than once.)
Anyway, yeah. I wish the practice would just go away, unless someone has their hands full or in other needs assistance.
posted
And I wish that people would just get off their high horse about it.
You can all probably tell that I have no patience for women who feel entitled to have doors opened for them. But I also have no patience for women who refuse to go through a door I'm holding because of some misguided sense of "feminism". I've had that happen plenty of times, too.
Personally, I don't hold doors for women because the poor little dears might get broken if they have to pull on the big heavy door all by their lonesomes. I do it because it's the polite thing to do, and even then, it depends entirely upon circumstances. If I happen to be the first person to reach the door, I'll hold it for whoever happens to be coming through, be they male or female. If a woman happens to reach the door just before me, I certainly don't expect her to hold it for me, but if she chooses to, I'll thank her and go through.
A woman standing at a door waiting for the man to open it because it's his obligation. A woman refusing to go through a door being held by a man because she--apparently--believes that feminism has made politeness obsolete. A man refusing to go through a door being held by a woman because it's "not right" for a woman to be holding a door. All these are equally contemptible creatures, and I prefer not to deal with any of them.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote: As long as I'm being negative...Lisha-princess, your thing about guys getting upset if you don't let them hold the door for you... you decided you like this?
No, I appreciate the gesture a great deal, coming from a male or female--I just tend to notice it more when males do it. I see girls holding it open for the person right behind them fairly often, but it seems like guys are much more likely to actually stand there and go a little more out of their way. What I meant was, I know guys who have gotten upset in the past. Since then, I have gotten a lot more used to the whole idea of door-opening for one another and my appreciation for it has increased.
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