posted
I need help getting a girlfriend, so I come to Hatrack. Go figure.
It seems to me that since the human race has been fairly prosperous over the last couple centuries, a couple things must happen. People have to meet, begin a relationship, and then...continue from there. I'm young and I don't want to think about the "continue from there," or I might blush.
The problem is that I am well into the ages where my peers and friends are dating and in relationships -- long, committed, loving relationships, and yet I am simply baffled by the process of getting there...
See, I've watched the TV shows, the movies, and my friends, but I never see that important step where people go from good friends to 'sig. others'.
I'm not entirely naive...in the same way that a Dodo isn't entirely naive to the concept of flying. It knows it can be done -- heck, it's probably even tried it a few times, but something just doesn't seem to be working...
I've had a grand total of one relationship and two missed opportunities. Maybe if I explain them to you, you might see why I find myself so...inept at the relationship process.
In my freshman year, I found out that a girl was interested in me. I might add that I had been interested in her for a few months, but simply did not have the nerve to ask her out. When I found out she liked me, it all got a bit easier. Anyways, we 'went out' for two months, the duration of which I spent speechless and perplexed by how I was actually supposed to do this relationship thing. She wound up dumping me as I was giving her a Christmas gift. That went well...
On the other occasion, I found out another girl was interested in me. She asked me to go to a movie with her. I wound up sitting on the far left of my seat, as she got closer to my right side. I didn't say anything or look at her (in retrospect, this was probably a bad move), and she wound up not speaking to me for six months.
On the last opportunity, I had sworn of relationships when a beautiful, intelligent, and charming girl said that she would like to get to know me better, and asked me if I would take her to dinner sometime. I, in a state of emotional turmoil from being dumped, pretended I hadn't understood her and changed the topic.
Smoooooooth, I know.
I ran into a mutual friend the other day and found out she was in re-hab after an ecstasy addiction she started on a month or so after that night.
Perhaps you can see my problem at this point:
I like a girl, but simply do not have the self-confidence to tell her so, for an un-godly fear of rejection. If I find out that it is a safe bet, I will ask her out...maybe...but then I find myself entirely inept at the actual dating process...
The odd bit is that in other situations, I am a big risk-taker...I make ventures and ask questions that others won't, and go places that are normally off-limits with a confident and controlled demeanor (always the passport to doing what you want... ). It is just with girls that this fear of rejection is so very overwhelming...
And now I find myself in the same position once again. A girl in a few of my classes, who I get along pretty well with. I don't know her well or much about her, though, and I am, as usual, absolutely terrified of potential rejection.
I ask myself how I will be able to go into the class and take my seat again behind her everyday without being embarassed if she says no. I ask myself how I will preserve any sense of dignity of I ask and she says, "Errr...I just don't think of you that way...errrr..."
So, how do you do it? How do you work up the courage to ask someone out, someone that you will see every day afterwards? How do you sustain a relationship?
How. On. Earth. Does the human race manage to continue?
Posts: 515 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I need help doing that too! But, it's not going to happen. So I'm just going to get a rabbit instead and meet someone when I am doing something that has nothing to do with chasing after babes.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I finally realized that as much as rejection would hurt, it couldn't possibly be any worse that the feeling I had sitting there doing nothing, and then watching her walk away with someone else.
That sucks so much worse, and the worst part of it was that I had no one to blame for those moments other than myself.
posted
just ask her out. If she says no, big deal. Even if she says no, going to class with her is not going to be nearly as awkward as you think. Unless she is simply a mean person, she will simply say no and let it go. You will both pretend that it never happend. If she is a mean person and treats you poorly when she rejects you, then you have learned that she is not the type of person you wan't to be friends with...so you gain knowlege that will keep you from wasting time with her.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
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posted
Two words : Don't Panic! From the sound of it you are in an American high school. Since they don't actually teach you anything, the environment is entirely artificial, including relationships. You are not missing anything at this point; once you get to college, you can have some real relationships.
That said, you likely want some practical advice for right now. If you live in a city, try some online dating. Although you are perhaps a little below the age range for which this is greatly successful, it costs almost zero effort and is worth a try. OkCupid is a good place to start.
On the subject of courage, have you considered getting a friend to help? If you have any friends who are good at getting dates, or better still are female themselves, ask them to set you up.
Failing that, I can offer a kind of mind trick : Don't let yourself think about what you're doing. If, for example, you are using the phone to ask someone out, think about something else while absently punching the numbers. Then you'll be in so deep that you have to continue, so no more courage is required. It requires a bit of 1984-style doublethink.
A thing you might try on a daily basis is smiling at girls and saying 'Hi' in the corridor. Not only will this win friends and influence people, it also makes you more comfortable with the idea of talking to the Other Sex. They're just people, you know, most of them with the same desire to find a relationship that you have. Try making eye contact and smiling at at least one per day; preferably total strangers, if such a thing is to be found at your school. If nothing else you'll get a smile in return, which is always nice.
Above all, don't get discouraged. Try asking out several girls. Don't get hung up on one and agonise over her for weeks. In fact, practice on some you don't really care for, so you have the skills for the one who matters. Ask a random stranger out today! Try picking a target in the library; a good opening line is "Hi, I've been seeing you around. What's your name?"
If you do get a date, don't get too discouraged by silences, also known as pauses in the conversation. Smile at her. Sip some water, if you're at an eating place. (Incidentally, movies are bad for first dates, you want to talk.) If the pause gets too long, ask her something :
What do you do outside of school?
What classes / extras are you taking? (Try not to get too bogged down on school, though.)
What do you think of / have you heard about (local news / national news / gossip)
This being America, you might even ask if she goes to church without getting smacked.
Tell her that her hair looks nice (put up like that / unbound like that / cut short like that).
Ask her if she's seen / read (movie / book). Preferably one you've seen yourself. Ask her what she thought of it. It's best if you liked the movie.
In general, try to praise things, not just about her, but about the place you're at. Say the food is good; if it's not, shut up about it. Ditto the music. Try your hardest to find something good in the movie. It's easy to try to criticise everything to come across as cool and cynical; but this behaviour gets old very quickly. Try to be positive.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Decide you're going to win the Six Rejections since no one else seems to be playing, and that way if she says no you can chalk it up as a point. When you see her in class, you don't have to think "She turned me down" 'cause instead you can think "I'm tied for first!" Then go ask someone else out. Either you'll get a date or you'll pull into the lead, and maybe spur some competition.
After all, how am I supposed to live vicariously thorugh the people who are playing if nobody's playing?
quote: Not only will this win friends and influence people, it also makes you more comfortable with the idea of talking to the Other Sex. They're just people, you know, most of them with the same desire to find a relationship that you have.
Oh, no, I have no problem whatsoever talking to the opposite sex...as friends.
I think you guys are telling me what I already knew but needed to hear.
Tomorrow, I will pursue my first rejection! ;p
Posts: 515 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Rejection is not a bad thing. It helps you hone your skills. Which I have none because I have had a grand total of one girlfriend. Then I found better things to concentrate on....my future. Oh, that doesn't stop me totally . I have met with some lovely women that I would have loved to have had a relationship with, but...two words: Language Barrier. They spoke enough english for us to have a decent conversation.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Man, you're starting out all wrong. It's like surfing; you've got to build up to the big waves. The Big Kahuna and his gang have got the good ones all tied up.
You'll have to start out with the sloppy, leftover surf that nobody seems to want. You can surf the sloppy stuff all you want, all day long, and spend more time in the water rather than nursing yourself on the beach after a wipeout. Work your way up to some of the bigger waves until you reach a level where you're comfortable but haven't exceeded your level of competence.
Sloppy surf seems to suit a lot of guys just fine.
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote: You'll have to start out with the sloppy, leftover surf that nobody seems to want. You can surf the sloppy stuff all you want, all day long, and spend more time in the water rather than nursing yourself on the beach after a wipeout. Work your way up to some of the bigger waves until you reach a level where you're comfortable but haven't exceeded your level of competence.
That's more or less what I have done. I've been getting dates with some really attractive (and for the most part, very intelligent, high personality) women lately. I just wish I could have a second date where I don't get so nervous that I don't talk
Anyway, the most important part of attracting members of the opposite sex, as I'm learning now, is confidence. If you aren't confident in the fact that you are a worthwhile person to date, people can sense it almost immediately. A lack of confidence shows up in the way you carry yourself, your posture, your speach, and in many other ways that you may not be aware. What you really need to do is learn to respect yourself and be happy with who you are, and show people that you are happy.
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Any guy who goes out with a girl/woman for practice thinking of her as "sloppy leftovers that no one else wants" deserves never to have a date again as long as he lives.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
No, dkw. He deserves to have many many many dates . . . all with women who think he's just bad enough to practice on. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Very much so. I never thought of any girls I dated as being below me or that I was just working up to something better. I truly cared about almost all the girls I've been out with and did all I could to make sure they enjoyed themselves and my company. I think that's what's most important, helping the other person enjoy themselves, rather than going out purely for your own enjoyment. But really, you shouldn't limit yourself to just the smart, pretty girls. Date all kinds and figure out what you really like. For me, I tend to think much less of women who are extremely physically attractive. Many of them tend to treat nice guys (such as I am) like dirt and have little in the way of intelligence or personality. So attractiveness isn't as high on my list of wants as a good personality and the ability to talk about what makes a good book a good book.
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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HRE, you sound *soooo* much like my brother-in-law. He has only ever been in a relationship once. The rest was a sort of "ships passing in the night" thing. He is naturally charming when he is comfortable, but when he is around a girl he is actually attracted to, he freezes up. What he and you might need to do is try investing in the ones that don't intimidate you so much. You might find a precious diamond there where you weren't expecting it. I think true friends make the best sweethearts.
Too often when I was head-over-heels infatuated, I was far too nervous to actually make a relationship happen. It just wasn't "fertile ground" for an equal, mutually enjoyable relationship. It was great fodder for fantasies, but in the end an empty, futile dream. It was when I was really comfortable with someone, having lots of fun, relaxed, unintimidated, that I could savor it, let the love grow. It is a beautiful thing. I wish I could tell all the world to look for love there more often.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:try investing in the ones that don't intimidate you so much
Yeah.
"Sloppy" was a bit harsh. What do surfers call beginner waves nowadays?
The dark reality is that a lot of guys spend too much time locked in the bathroom with airbrushed porn queens. They get a warped image in their minds of the ideal woman. Now with these crazy hentai manga on the newstand and on the Internet, the guys may never enter the real world.
When it comes to real girls, you've gotta start somewhere, and find out where you fit in and match up. You're more likely to crash and burn if you set your sights too high.
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Okay, as someone who is generally considered physically attractive, and who has been told so repeatedly on this forum, may I just tell y'all about the (many) times when I've been told that a guy had had a huge crush on me but hadn't asked me out because they considered me either "intimidating" or "out of my league?"
Wanna guess how often I would have turned them down if they'd've actually asked me out?
None. Because they were all smart and funny and interesting, and because I never had a boyfriend in the relevant timeframe because apparently all the guys I knew were too chicken-$%*# to ask me out.
Now, I've dated a lot too, so maybe there were other people who wanted to ask me out and didn't that I would have turned down, either because I was seeing someone else or I wasn't attracted to them for one reason or another. But those people never told me about it later. And I can think of at least four guys off the top of my head who I would have gone out with if they'd just flippin' asked. Plus a fifth that I actually asked out, who kinda stammered and avoided answering, who's best friend told me later had basically the same thing going on.
So I absolutely hate it when I hear people advising others not to "set their sights too high." If you're interested in someone, ASK. If she says no, ask someone else. I know it sucks and it's hard, but it doesn't actually physically hurt, I swear. This is my advice to girls as well as guys, by the way.
It reminds me of an old joke... please pardon the content, but I think it gets the point across:
A guy walks up to a woman in a bar and says "Hey baby, wanna screw?" The woman looks horrified and slaps him. Another guy standing by asks him "Why do you do that? Does it ever work?" The first guy answers "Nine times out of ten you get slapped. The tenth time makes it worth it."
Now, I'm not advocating you go around propositioning women for casual sex. Try bowling or something first. But for pete's sake if you want to go out with someone, ask. Because until she gets old and crotchety like me, she's probably too shy or worried about being "improper" to make the first move, and as such is bleedin' lonely and would love to go out with you.
Note: What this experience did teach me is that I like self-confidence in a man, and I've raised my standards on that score. But I've also become much more open about showing if I'm attracted to someone. Because I know it's hard to put yourself up for rejection.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:...casual sex. Try bowling or something first.
How do you explain the apparent phenomenon of women being more attracted to a man after he's already found someone else? There's something wrong with a guy who can't get a girl, and nobody wants to be the first?
It was wierd. Once I had finally landed a steady girlfriend, the girls started to come out of the woodwork. It's like they're watching to see how you treat the lady. A guy without a girl is an unknown commodity.
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Now, I'm not advocating you go around propositioning women for casual sex. Try bowling or something first.
Hilarious. Not that I think your really want to use, "hey baby, wanna go bowling?" as a line if you really need one. (It occured to me after writing this that at least three female hatrackers will now posting indicating that this would indeed work for them. Oh well. It is still funny to me.)
It sounds to me HRE that you're thinking way to much about this. Spinning dreams does you no good, and no goals were ever scored from the sidelines. Don't build this up so much, that only makes it harder. The very fact that you posted this indicates that you are too focused on it.
Posts: 1621 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
I think I agree with the idea of going on some casual dates with folks you don't know through online dating sites. One of my friends has tried out eHarmony which he likes, though it has a membership fee (some of you others reading might be interested, though).
It's hard to tell just what would help you get over the difficult parts. Maybe if you got used to the date part, it would be easier to do the asking part. Maybe just forcing yourself to ask some girls out will help you .
I apologize in advance for the girls who will sadly tell you, "I'm sorry, but I just think of you as a friend."
Posts: 1892 | Registered: Mar 2002
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*shrug* Couldn't tell ya. I can only speak for myself, and it's not really a behavior that I engage in. But if you read the "Brain sex" thread you'll note that I rank as "average male" in my thinking. This is partially because I have excellent spatial relations comprehension, but also whenever my little brother and I discuss relationships we've found that we look at dating almost exactly the same.
Anyway, I only hit on single guys. And I rarely, if ever, find "taken" ones to be nearly as interesting.
posted
Ya know, as a guy who spent years pining over a single girl who he went out with only once and chose not to ask out any girls because of said crush, just start asking girls out. Don't get caught on just one of them (I've formed a habit of doing that which is haunting me even now). Little did I know that right next to this one girl was another who was just as wonderful and lovely that actually WAS interested in me. I found out about that about 6 months before she got married. Ask people out. Be "just friends" if you have to, but ask people out. (And like Eljay said, ask out the hot ones too )
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Ya know, as a guy who spent years pining over a single girl who he went out with only once and chose not to ask out any girls because of said crush, just start asking girls out.
Yup. This is what my silly bro-in-law would do. Fixate and not consider the alternatives. Made himself sick over it. Not worth it when there are so many wonderful gals out there. I firmly believe that a crush is *not* the best way to romance, despite what the movies say. At least, didn't work for me.
ELJay: Sounds like he plans to take your advice tomorrow. But if that doesn't work, I still highly recommend my method. For some people, going straight for the crush results in Boris-like me-like behavior. It ain't pretty, and it ain't the way to gain self-confidence.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote: How do you explain the apparent phenomenon of women being more attracted to a man after he's already found someone else? There's something wrong with a guy who can't get a girl, and nobody wants to be the first?
Simple. It's the Principle of Least Interest. Works that way for both genders, actually -- many women also find that they get hit on more when already in a happy relationship.
If it's a date with a friend, you can always try "Gee, this is a little awkward, isn't it?" *flash winning smile* "So, why don't you tell me what's going on in your life? WHat are you interested in, right now?"
posted
In my expmeriment, the transition between friendship and... something else is done quite naturally. Just relax and try not to think of your relationship in terms of "Am I dating or am I not, are we a couple or just friends...". As long as you relax and enjoy her company, what has to happen will happen. And it will be clear soon enough. Posts: 3526 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
What I don't get is when you feel somewhat attracted to someone, but when you actually put it into words or actions with them, it just evaporates. That happen to anyone else, or is it just me?
Posts: 3658 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I can't say that I've never been rejected, or that I relished being turned down. On the other hand I found that it was really quite simple to change my perception of being rebuffed. Instead of feeling like I'd been found wanting in any number of categories I preferred to believe that the woman in question was, perhaps, shortsighted and less than a stellar judge of character. This may indicate an overabundance of self-confidence but in reality was a simple way for me to deflect the tide of rejection.
As an older, albeit, married fella I realize that it takes all kinds and you can't expect everyone to take a shine to ya. Keep looking and don't fear rejection. It isn't something that folks do to hurt you, it's something they do because it's right for them.
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Not only will this win friends and influence people, it also makes you more comfortable with the idea of talking to the Other Sex.
Really and truly -- read the BOOK How to Win Friends and Influence People. I'm serious. I know someone who is very very shy with any people (not just opposite sex) and that book helped him to better understand interpersonal relationships, and how to "read" others. It couldn't hurt!
posted
As a girl all I can ell you is that you should ask her out. I just hate it when men don't. Make sure she's available though.
Posts: 3389 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:So, what is first date etiquette? How do I ask her? Where do I take her? What am I traditionally supposed to do?
Okay, the first thing to remember is RELAX and HAVE FUN.
It doesn't really matter how you phrase the question, but make sure you approach it as if she's going to say yes - and that if she doesn't, that's fine too. Don't make a big deal out of it, just say something casual like "Hey, I was thinking of going to the hockey game* on Saturday, would you like to come along?"
*If you happen to know what she's interested in, that's a bonus. If not, it doesn't matter, just make it something that you enjoy, and think she might like, that sounds interesting and not dodgy! It's sometimes better to choose an activity that there are several possible days for, rather than a once-off, because she may be genuinely busy that day and you, being nervous, might not ask her a next time. So it can help if you can say "sometime next week" and then ask what night suits her. If she says no, just say "Okay, maybe some other time," and don't take it personally! Besides, if she says no, you'll have your first point for six rejections.
Something where you'll have a definite activity to do is usually better - nothing worse than sitting there with nothing to do if you can't think of anything to say. Well okay there are probably worse things, but still. It depends on the girl, but if it was me you were asking out, something like ice skating, kayaking, watching a sports game, going to a play or cabaret dinner... you get the picture. There's always time for talking during or afterwards, and conversation tends to flow more naturally when you're not sitting there racking your brains for something to fill the silence.
Don't worry about tradition. Don't make it too formal. Be a "gentleman" but not too over the top about it. Ask out ElJay.
RELAX! HAVE FUN! Dating can be horrible. But it can also be very very enjoyable. It's up to you. Best of luck!
posted
Um, yeah. Last I check HRE was in high school in a different state then I'm in. Neither of those facts sound promising for a good, solid dating relationship.
Besides, I might not be available. tt&t doesn't know.
(But if you do, remember! Today's first date of choice is mini-golf!)
This is not a meme we need to be starting here. *stern look*
I said I wouldn't have said no to those particular people had they asked me when they later told me they had been thinking about it. That was a situational statement, not a general one.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote: This is not a meme we need to be starting here.
It's too late, ElJay-- that meme has already made the rounds. tt&t is not even patient zero, she's just a carrier.
Some good advice from tt&t, ElJay, KoM, and others.
Although skillery used unfortunate phrasing and metaphors, I think I get his point. If HRE has problems getting comfortable around girls, he can try looking for girls that he is comfortable around, and that he is attracted to. That way he can relax and they can enjoy each other's company instead of being on First Date Hell with a gorgeous woman that intimidates the snot out of him.
Posts: 327 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Perhaps the meme should be "People should ALways listen to ElJay's dating advice."
I know what you mean though - I'm also someone who's referred to as "out of my league" from time to time, generally by people who I would have at least gone on a first date with had they asked. I've pretty much always had to do the asking, which I don't often mind since I can usually tell when someone's interested in me and thus don't get many refusals. But that so doesn't mean you* shouldn't ask! It's always nice to be asked.
In any case, I am actually a nice person (well, sometimes) as are most girls, and understand what it's like to be nervous about asking someone out. Hence, if I was saying no, I would do it in a nice way! And not think bad things about you afterwards. I mean heck, it's a compliment, right? Any girl who laughs, or is nasty about it, or attempts to embarrass you wasn't worth dating in the first place, so by asking and having her say no, you've gained the knowledge that you can do better (and that she's not worth pining for!)
In fact, one of my best friends is a guy who randomly asked me out (on a BET, of all things, as he'd told his friend that I would say no as I was "out of his league" and his friend said, okay, ask her anyway!) that I turned down because I had a boyfriend at the time. We ended up dating a few years later, long after I'd broken up with the boyfriend, but that's not the point.
*generic "you" - not actually HRE or ElJay. Posts: 1431 | Registered: Aug 2003
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). It is just with girls that this fear of rejection is so very overwhelming...
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is done quite naturally. Just relax and try not to think of your relationship in terms of "Am I dating or am I not, are we a couple or just friends...". As long as you relax and enjoy her company, what has to happen will happen. And it will be clear soon enough. 
