posted
I'm wondering what people think of first when they think of the word homosexual. For me, homosexual brings first the idea lesbian, and then the idea of gay. I've talked to a couple of friends and it seems (from our sample size of 3) that this is correlated with gender. However I can think of a dozen other reasons as well. So, if people could state their gender, what idea is most prominent for them, and anything that might have an effect on that I would greatly appreciate it.
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posted
I never like the word homosexual. It soulds like some kind of affliction or something. But, it seems to make me think of both gays and lesbians, but gays first.
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posted
When I hear homosexual, I think of a gay guy in a kimono standing next to a lesbian with a battered housewife dress (specific people). No this isn't supposed to really help.
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posted
It really should be homophilia (attracted to "same"), but never mind.
Anyway, I tend to think homosexual as gay male first, then if thinking more inclusively, to add in lesbians. I don't have any good reason for that sequence of automatic thought, but it could be the sequence in which awareness of sexuality and sexual attractions other than male<-->female dawned on me. I.e., I learned that some guys were attracted to other men before I learned that some women were attracted to other women.
Like The Pixiest, I tend to think of men when I hear homosexual and women when I hear bi-sexual.
I guess I tend to think that because I have heard of women experimenting with other women- but not being homosexual, just "curious"- so I don't really consider it to be a homosexual act. Whereas with men, I tend to just think they are straight or gay because I've never heard of men experimenting who don't come to realize they are gay. Make sense? And I usually forget there's the third option of being bi.
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Pixiest, I don't think that is the same for women. Women(in general) do not get turned on watching two men kissing or what have you. Whereas, I wonder what percentage of porn features two women.
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posted
When I hear "homosexual", I tend to think of gay males too...I always use lesbian when referring to women.
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posted
"Homosexual" and "gay" are both gender-neutral terms. The only one of this whole pack that explicitly references the sex of the person is "lesbian", which refers to a female. "Homosexual" and "gay" can both refer to males or females.
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posted
When I hear homosexual I think of gay men and women, not necessarily one first over the other, just gay in general.
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posted
"gay" can refer to homosexuals as a whole or to male homosexuals in particular, hence the term GBLT (Gay, Bisexual, Lesbian, Transgender).
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posted
I tend to mentally associate "homosexual" with men, since there's actually a whole special term -- "lesbian" -- for the female subcategory.
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posted
So that doesn't mean "garlic, bacon, lettuce, and tomato"? Whoops, I guess I'd better stop asking for GBLT then! Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
"I tend to mentally associate "homosexual" with men, since there's actually a whole special term -- "lesbian" -- for the female subcategory. "
So, there is no subcategory for homosexual men? In fact, it is usually "gay and lesbian," both terms "under" homosexuality, even though "gay" can refer to women as well as men. Interesting.
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posted
That's why I despise the expression "gay and lesbian". It's redundant. I don't know when or how this whole idea of "gay=homosexual man" thing came about, but I regard it as utter nonsense. "Gay" just means "homosexual", and there is no single word to describe a gay man as "lesbian" describes a gay woman.
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posted
It depends on the group or culture using the phrasing.
I use "homosexual" as a neutral, homosexual reference
"Gay" can be applied to either, but quite often is used to specify homosexual men.
"Lesbian" is gender specific for women.
As for your question Liz, I don't know of a uniquely male label for homosexual men. There are subgroups like "queen" or "nelly queen" and so on, but nothing that applies universally to all gay men.
You will note I use the phrase "gay men".
As for a man and two women...sorry. I know the reverse doesn't hold true for women and it certainly doesn't appeal to all men, but...um...
posted
I guess in the lack of context, I consider homosexuals or gays as terms including both men-like-men and women-like-women categories. For example, when talking about gay rights, or gay marriage... I don't think of one gender exclusively.
While I do know more women who have experimented with women and settled somewhere on the straight-bisexual spectrum, I know a few bisexual men.
I do find it funny that many straight men love watching lesbians. I think if I were a lesbian, I might have problems with exhibiting for men*. But as a bisexual, I don't mind.
* I wonder if it would be like this: If you were straight, and making out with your significant other, would you mind if someone of your gender watched?
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For one thing, the situation comes up in real life pretty often for me. Vi doesn't mind public display of affection at the club and neither do I. But I think I prefer a male audience to a female one.
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Well, sure. And I have no doubt that within the gay culture they have plenty of their own words to describe a variety of different preferential circumstances that those of us outside the culture wouldn't necessarily recognize. What I meant was that there are no commonly understood, standard terms. Personally, I can't help but feel there ought to be one, if only so people would stop saying "gay and lesbian" as though the first word didn't already by definition include the second. But ultimately I'm probably going to lose this battle anyway, as surely as those who fought against "gay" coming to mean "homosexual" in the first place lost.
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posted
Homosexual as noun: male. Homosexual as adjective: female. Gay as noun: male. Gay as adjective: "lame." (Sorry -- I think that's how I most often hear it used. Mostly by Slash.) Lesbian as noun or adjective: female.
posted
I actually have kind of a theory about the "men like watching lesbians" thing. At first glance, it seems weird that a straight person would be turned on by watching homosexual activity. But on the other hand, watching lesbians means watching sex taking place with no man-parts present.
Think about it. If you're a straight guy, and you're watching porn, and you don't get turned off when some guy's monster dingle comes out, wouldn't that be somewhat uncomfortable? If it's lesbians going at it, however, there's nothing but two beautiful women to look at. You can look absolutely anywhere and see something you actually want to see. It's double the pleasure, right?
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posted
I think there's something to do with men and being very visually stimulated. From what I gather from my male friends, they get a much greater kick out of seeing a naked woman (or breasts, or other parts) than I would out of seeing a naked man or woman. I appreciate the beauty, but not in quite the same way.
So... would that play a factor?
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posted
I think of gay as being like the term "man." Man can either apply to humanity as a whole or to males in particular. In the same way gay can apply to homosexuals as a whole or to homosexual men in particular.
You'll notice in the first post I said, "the idea of lesbian" and "the idea of gay" because the word itself isn't what comes to mind. Rather the thought of two men or two women is what comes to mind. I'm not sure that makes sense, but it's the best way I can describe it.
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quote:I think of gay as being like the term "man." Man can either apply to humanity as a whole or to males in particular. In the same way gay can apply to homosexuals as a whole or to homosexual men in particular.
Um . . . somehow I had never approached it from that angle. Curse you for making me re-think my position!
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posted
I find the idea of two men together... compelling. But I don't really cultivate it as "sexy", if that makes any sense. But I am more comfortable with my bisexual tendencies than most people seem to be. Mainly, I'm monogamous, and I think it makes little difference to me whether I like Speed because of Sandra Bullock or Keanu Reeves. Neither of them is my spouse, so I don't consciously fantasize about them when I'm awake. Dennis Hopper is right out, though. I tend to think of "homosexual" as primarily male because I read in a Human Sexuality textbook that 10% of men are gay, whereas only 3% of women are gay. Of course, this same textbook said that no sexual interests are clearly wrong apart from amputation fetishes.
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posted
That's why it's "GLBT" and not "GBLT". Too many people were confusing it with the sandwich. (It is properly written "GLBT" by the way.)
When I hear "homosexual" I first think "gay man" but I think that's natural, I'm just thinking of someone the same sex as myself. YMMV.
In gay political circles, "gay" is paired with "lesbian" specifically because many lesbians did not think that "gay" was sufficiently inclusive. Here is my understanding of why that came to be. In the early days of "gay" rights, the spotlight was mostly on gay men. In part this was because the fight back then was mostly for the right to simply exist publicly without persecution. Traditionally, American society has been much more tolerant of lesbianism than male homosexuality, so the fight for the most basic gay rights was one mostly concerning the behaviors and societal toleration of gay men. Politically minded lesbians were, for the most part, already caught up in the feminist movement. As the fight for "gay rights" moved beyond Stonewall (which was largely an impromptu demonstration fighting for the right to not have our bars raided and everyone arrested simply for being there) and began to seek things like employment, housing, and other rights beyond mere public toleration, there was an increasing affinity between the gay rights and feminist movements. It's unclear to me if lesbians became more involved in the gay rights movement because it had evolved into something more politically relevant to them, or if the movement evolved because of their involvement, but either way "lesbian" became the preferred term for homosexual women, in part because it underscored the dual fight for their rights as homosexuals and as women. Outside the movement itself, however, "gay" has become (or remained - also debatable) a catch-all phrase referring to both sexes, and in the media's quest for the most succinct labels, "lesbian" is often dropped in favor of the shorter and more inclusive term.
For those interested, here are a few more specifically descriptive terms used within the gay community (don't worry I'll keep it clean). I've noted with a "*" those terms which would probably be considered offensive if used by someone outside the community:
*queen, nelly queen, fag - all generally refer to the more stereotypically flamboyant or effeminate gay men, but can be used endearingly to refer to any gay man when the term is used by a gay man.
* dyke - a lesbian. Sometimes used by gay men in a derogatory fashion, sometimes as a term of endearment. You'd really have to know the context.
* bull-dyke, butch dyke - generally the more mannish lesbians.
Lipstick lesbian - a more traditionally feminine lesbian. (i.e. wears feminine clothes and make-up, etc).
Bear - a more traditionally masculine gay man. Normally refers to large and/or hairy guys, but neither is a strict requirment.
Cub - a young or thin bear (see above), or sometimes a bear that is more submissive in a relationship.
Twinky - a young, thin, 'pretty' gay man. Also often denotes a certain social superficiality. Often used in a derogatory fashion by those who don't fit the category.
Mary - a gay "codeword" for another gay man. Used less often these days due to the increasing openness of homosexuality. (see also "Friend of Dorothy")
Drag queen - a gay man dressed as a woman. (Not to be confused with "transvestite", "transsexual", or "cross-dresser") This is an entire discussion in itself, but today is much more about theater and impersonation than about sex, and indeed is very often not about sex at all.
quote:Twinky - a young, thin, 'pretty' gay man. Also often denotes a certain social superficiality. Often used in a derogatory fashion by those who don't fit the category.
Well, that explains why BtL is always so happy to see him... Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Drag queen - a gay man dressed as a woman. (Not to be confused with "transvestite", "transsexual", or "cross-dresser") This is an entire discussion in itself, but today is much more about theater and impersonation than about sex, and indeed is very often not about sex at all.
I so learned this from Eddie Izzard.
quote:Bear - a more traditionally masculine gay man. Normally refers to large and/or hairy guys, but neither is a strict requirement.
Now I get that like 2 minute "Grizzly Adams" joke on Family Guy...
posted
Perhaps she refers to it as hybrid because she feels that some people are getting too much mileage out of the word?
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posted
Slash fiction -- mostly male-to-male sexuality using tv and buddy-flick pairs as characters -- is written mostly by women.
And "< name > is theatrical." is nearly always a reference to a gay male. Even when the name is as genderless as a surname or initials, or as ambiguous as Mickey, or as feminine as Evelynn. But then maybe that comes from being around Brits.
posted
Ok, I have a question, Karl Ed. What is up with the concept of "fag hags?" I had never heard the term until my sis told me, but I have always known the phenomenon. Best way I can describe is Will and Grace. Is it a status thing? I always wondered. there are certain women i have known who attract gay men. It is in friendship, yet, well, it is something more than friendship, or it feels that way.
As for the men getting turned on by women thing. It is also a well documented fantasy(many comedians have "twin jokes")that men not only like to watch, but participaite in sex with two (or more?) women. Is this, perhaps, a biological thing?
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posted
Personally, I hate the term "fag hag". I think it is insulting and demeaning. I know a couple of women who use the term proudly, but for the majority (in my experience) it is an insult.
That said, a lot of straight women like to hang out with gay men. I think for them it is refreshing to be in a social situation with men where there is no sexual tension and very little chance of basic friendliness being miscontrued as a come-on. Also, it's often easier for a straight woman to pal around with gay men because many gay men have interests that are more typically attributed to women. A woman might be more likely to find a companion for the opera or theater among her gay male acquaintances, or someone to go antiquing or shopping with.
The term "fag hag" also gets applied when a woman gets a reputation for mostly hanging out with gay men, to the exclusion of all other men.
Is it a "status thing"? Well, if it is, that is one case when I'd be fine with the term being used. If a woman is my friend simply because I'm gay and for largely no other reason, well, I'd probably find that demeaning. I normally dislike the term because most straight women I have known who have close gay male friends are friends because they genuinely appreciate each other as individuals.
If it seems like something more than friendship, well, it might be. I think gay men who find women repulsive are in the minority. And a lot of gay men can appreciate a nice female form, at least aesthetically. Plus gay men tend to flirt for fun, often even with their female friends. All these factors together can probably make a straight female/gay male friendship more intimate, and affectionate than most women find with straight men or other women.
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posted
I think what was meant by "hybrid word" was the fact that it was constructed from a Greek root "homo" and a Latin root "sex". Traditionally, this has been regarded as a bad way to form words. Words should have all their roots taken from the same language, say the traditionalists.
Whether you accept that as valid linguistic criticism or not, at least in the case of "homosexual", confusion can result. The Greek "homo" means "same", but unfortunately "homo" is also a Latin word, which means "man". And since "sex" comes from Latin, it's easy to see "homosexual" and assume it means something like "man-sex" or "one who has sex with men".
As Bob_Scopatz said earlier, it should have been "homophilia". That would be fully Greek and mean literally "same-love", that is, "one who loves the same".
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