WASHINGTON (AP) -- An array of advocacy groups are calling on the U.S. government to take down one of its new Web sites, saying it presents biased and inaccurate advice to parents on how to talk to their children about sex.
The site -- 4parents.gov -- stresses the promotion of abstinence.
Emphasizing abstinence is fine, said the groups, but the government, under the conservative Bush administration, also should stress the need for contraception if sexual relations do occur.
Entirely aside from having an issue with the government telling me how to raise any potential children I might have (some favorite tidbits from the 4parents website include "House Rules" such as, "Set an age for dating. Be clear that there will be no dating before this age," and "Make sure that your teen is not spending a lot of time in unsupervised situations." So kind of them to provide my rules for me.)
Aside from the government having no place in this kind of issue, if they're going to stick their nose in it, they might as well make sure they're handing out correct information instead of ideologically driven propaganda. (Dem fightin words, I know, but if the government released incorrect data on, say, the number of accidents caused by accidental discharging of firearms to discourage hunting, people on the other side of this (my) particular ideological fence would cry propaganda, no?)
The information on the 4parents.gov website on contraception is just plain inaccurate according to authorities no less than the WHO and the FDA. See sources below:
quote: Male Condom Failure Rate: 15% Birth Control Pill Failure Rate: 8%
From "Answers" to the quiz at the bottom of the linked page: "When used consistently and correctly, condoms reduce the risk of pregnancy by about 75%. Their effectiveness for STD risk reduction varies."
quote:Estimated pregnancy rates during perfect use of condoms, that is for those who report using the method exactly as it should be used (correctly) and at every act of intercourse (consistently), is 3 percent at 12 months.
quote:Failure Rate (number of pregnancies expected per 100 women per year): 1-2
Moral (no pun intended) of the story: 4parents claim the Pill has a failure rate of 8% and condoms have a failure rate of 15%. Yes, the 15% stat on condom use can be correct -- when the condom is used incorrectly or inconsistently. When used correctly and consistently, as cited above, the failure rate is ~2%. So much for accurate government information.
And you know what, forget teens and teen sex. This website is available to anyone and everyone with a computer; what if responsible (perhaps even married) adults were trying to make informed decisions about their contraception? A website like this would deceive, cause unnecessary worry and stress and even affect very personal decisions. The government has no place here at all, but disinformation is utterly wrong.
[ April 04, 2005, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: Kasie H ]
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I like their conversation starters. If my parents used those, I think I'd have them tested for drugs. Or pamphlets.
Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I doubt that most teens would use a condom correctly if they aren't taught to do so. So it probably will have a 15% failure rate for them. That, however, is no excuse for not mentioning the failure rate for correct use.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
The site seems naive to me. It reminds me of the materials my parents tried to share with me from Focus on the Family regarding faith and sexuality. When they found out in college that I wasn't a virgin, they sought to share films and books with me to show me what I should be like. It was sad, but I sat through and read it all to honor them. I read what they were reading "How to talk to your kids about sex" etc. And it all seemed so bitterly naive.
Nowhere does it remind you that teens and young adults need to be treated as you would treat yourself. These resources seem to discount the teen's experiences. They promote a very limited perspective as opposed to truly seeking to understand the influences, reasons, and effects of teen sexuality.
It makes me sad, and frustrated. Kids need someone to be real with them. Not someone who sits on High, as Authority, and pretends to connect for the sake of preaching a sermon. The resources promote starting to talk with your kids only as a trick to deliver your values as a sermon. Not as a dialogue, where parents listen to their children and learn from them. Where they navigate the world together and grow.
By the time your kids are considering being sexually active, it's too late to deliver sermons. They need to think for themselves, and debate issues. What if you asked them to defend your position as an adult, and you took the role of someone who was sexually irresponsible?
Some of the "prompts" could be decent, if you really had a conversation about them. Just ask the questions, skip the lead-up. And talk. And LISTEN.
Posts: 3141 | Registered: Apr 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I wouldn't be surprised if many of the people from Focus on the Family were behind this site in some way as well.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I can't get the site to work for me...so I can't see their exact context, but my guess is the BC failure rates are for teens, not over all. 15% is not all that unrealistic for teen condom failure rate. Largely because a lot of sex with teens also involved alcohol which ups the BC failure rate.
Though, I am biased against teen sex due to my religion, and my profession. Most people in developmental psychology departments (which has people who are politically liberal on most issue) don't like teens having sex due to their likely hood to mix alcohol with sex, incorrectly use BC (or not use it at all), and because of problems with decision making at that age.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
My family had the don't-date-before-this-age rule. The idea was that we'd have a full identity before being in situations that often meant merging ones. I know many, many people that would have been well-served by not having to figure out who they were sexually and what they wanted out of a relationship before they even entered their sophomore year of high school.
Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:The government has no place here at all, but disinformation is utterly wrong.
Well said, Kasie. I completely agree.
quote:The site seems naive to me.
Me, too.
quote:By the time your kids are considering being sexually active, it's too late to deliver sermons.
So true. A lot of the parents of the teen moms I used to work with told me that they wished they had discussed sex with their daughters at a much earlier age (the ones who discussed it with them at all).
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
my mom told me all about this topic when I was twelve. I was never inclined to have sex at any time before there was a ring on my left hand. Besides, Its not like I would give my body to just some loser that didn't love me or couldn't afford me. I'm not saying that I'm some golddigger, but I do care for my wellbeing. just like my aunt says, you've gotta think with your head, not your ass.
Posts: 3389 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Setting an age by which they are able to date would definitely require conversations, probably well before the subject became relevant in their lives.
The comments I'm reading here are puzzling me. You don't believe that parents should have anything to do with how their teenagers handle one of the major parts of life? There are so many ways to get hurt, and the more naive they are, the more vulnerable. It would be a failure of parenting to NOT have those conversations and make some rules.
Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Totally. My mom didn't let me have a boyfriend until I was 16, and even so, I never really wanted to have one.
Posts: 3389 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:"When used consistently and correctly, condoms reduce the risk of pregnancy by about 75%. Their effectiveness for STD risk reduction varies."
The situation you are positing implies that the condom would not be used correctly.
oops, misread the blurb. They are being morons then. They prob read the stat on teen condom use, and for some reason tacked on "when used consistently and correctly." It has to be some sort of typo...they can't think anyone would believe that condoms are only 75% when used correctly. You'd think something with a .gov address would be more careful about that.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Entirely aside from having an issue with the government telling me how to raise any potential children I might have...
This site is set up as a service and resource for parents. It doesn't seem here like the government is necessarily trying to dictate to parents how to approach these issues and how to raise their children.
Pick up a book on the subject at Barnes & Noble and you'll get the same amount of indoctrination on child rearing as you would from this website. But you probably wouldn't think the author was ramming it down your throat if he or she didn't represent the government, and if that author agreed more closely with your own views.
I recognize the politically-charged nature of such a website. I've participated in writing very sensitive documentation that was checked and rechecked by various members of management until it represented a precariously balanced compromise between powers. I'm sure this website's content went through the same highly political process. And being the government, of course it's immediately going to take on the aura of heavy handed authority. No surprise that it's causing such polarization.
Still, if parents are really searching for some advice on how to talk to their kids about these things, they'll probably want to read at least a few sources and take what they like from each of them. Lots of parents find themselves in tight spots with their teens and would like to provide good guidance, and they'll be happy to find out what credible sources have to say on the subject. Whether or not they agree with everything this kind of website says, at least the resource was there.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:It has to be some sort of typo...they can't think anyone would believe that condoms are only 75% when used correctly. You'd think something with a .gov address would be more careful about that.
You'd think.
No, its almost certainly intentional, and if its not its gross incompetence, either of which should result in a thorough review of the entire site, but won't.
edit: oh, and a thorough review by scientists and medical experts.
quote: The comments I'm reading here are puzzling me. You don't believe that parents should have anything to do with how their teenagers handle one of the major parts of life?
I'm not seeing where you're seeing this... what I'm seeing is people saying that the government shouldn't have anything to do with how a parent chooses to handle his/her involvement with his/her teenagers life.
Posts: 409 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
*snort* I remember my "conversation" with my father.
I'd like to think he was embarassed and awkward on dealing with the subject, which is why the discussion was so amazingly half-hearted.
You might be embarassed, but for the love of your kids, be as thorough as you can be. It'll be embarassing for the both of you, maybe. Taking care of a pregnancy will be far, far worse.
quote:Aside from the government having no place in this kind of issue, if they're going to stick their nose in it, they might as well make sure they're handing out correct information instead of ideologically driven propaganda.
I like the government sticking it's nose in these kinds of issues. I don't even mind ideologically driven material, you know, "Read to your children, it'll help them become better people."
That's government telling parents their business. The thing is, I'm right. I'm sure that someone can marshall statistics to monitor the effects of reading to your children, but there is no better evidence than the quiet dignity of a small well-read child, and any evidence short of one being in the presence of such a children strikes me as inadequate. Then again, my idea of drug education involves taking a field trip to jail and putting inmates on a question and answer panel, then going over to a county hospital to see the sights.
quote:what I'm seeing is people saying that the government shouldn't have anything to do with how a parent chooses to handle his/her involvement with his/her teenagers life.
I think it is definitely within the government's limits to provide resources and services in this area. However, I believe it is definitely the parents' right and responsibility to teach their children, and especially to teach them to be responsible and wise. The parents should be free to use the resources the government provides, but on the parents' initiative.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:The comments I'm reading here are puzzling me. You don't believe that parents should have anything to do with how their teenagers handle one of the major parts of life?
The question of whether and how parents should set rules for their teenage kids is tough and non-trivial. Mostly I find it funny when clueless authority figures think they can affect kids in any positive way with taglines like "Tobacco is wacko if you're a teen," or "Sex can wait." Especially when combined with cheesy commercials. These things will impress the goody-two-shoes kids who had no intention of messing around in the first place, while the trouble-makers will laugh at such things, making it all the more difficult for parents to actually communicate their own views in a convincing way.
Posts: 4600 | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote: These things will impress the goody-two-shoes kids who had no intention of messing around in the first place, while the trouble-makers will laugh at such things, making it all the more difficult for parents to actually communicate their own views in a convincing way.
The goody-two-shoes will laugh at them too, just generally they already have several good reasons to do as the commercial says. I loved DARE in elementary school. The title makes it sound like they're daring you to go out and do drugs. If I wasn't already aware of the nasty consequences of drug use I might have become a druggie just because of that program. You can't say that the program worked for me, just because I did what it said, there were a myriad of reasons for my decision, DARE wasn't one of them.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
OK, I finally got to see this site, and it is in clear violation of the 1st Amendment. What the hell is this?
quote:Are you a "connected" parent? Do you:
Share your teen's hopes (with warmth and encouragement) for a great future? Know about your teen's activities and friends? Enjoy meals and family time with your teens? Encourage strong values and faith in your teens? Discuss tough topics and share opinions with your teens? Set guidelines and maintain high expectations?
quote:Another part of goals and values for many families is their religious or spiritual base. If your family is involved with a church, mosque, synagogue or other faith organization, encourage your teen to participate. Teens who are actively involved in a religious organization, who study their faith and pray or worship are less likely to use drugs or begin early sexual activity.
Moral of the story: if I want my kid not to get messed up with this nasty sex stuff, better take him/her to church. This is a government document that purports to give good advice to all parents, and here they are exhorting parents to get religious.
Posts: 4600 | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
No, it's not pushing people to "get religious." It's encouraging families who are involved with a religious organization to encourage their teens to participate more fully in that religion's practices. There's that big "IF" there, after all.
I think it's a pretty good statement. There are lots of people who put lots of stake in the benefits of their religious lifestyles and who would find that bit helpful.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
That paragraph is one of three in a section that encourages parents to talk about their goals and their family values with their kids. It doesn't carry the topic, but supports it. I think it's a pretty good, positive section with some pretty helpful material regardless of your beliefs.
Here's the whole section:
quote: "S" is for Support Good Goals. If your teen son or daughter has hope for the future they are more likely to make better choices. Do you know if your teen has goals? Do you know what they are? Ask them about their goals for marriage, family and a career. Ask them about their goals for jobs now and in the future and what their plans are to prepare for them. Then listen.
Share your hopes and values. Goals, values and beliefs are important to teens. They are some of the most powerful reasons for the sexual choices they make. You should direct and guide your teen to develop the values of honesty, responsibility and caring. Remember, values about education, marriage and trust are more easily "caught" than "taught." You and your behavior are the most valuable "values" educator!
Another part of goals and values for many families is their religious or spiritual base. If your family is involved with a church, mosque, synagogue or other faith organization, encourage your teen to participate. Teens who are actively involved in a religious organization, who study their faith and pray or worship are less likely to use drugs or begin early sexual activity. (10,11) Share your family's values with your teen and encourage service to others and the community.
posted
The conversation starters they have are ridiculous, if a parent came to me saying stuff like that, I'd crawl right out of my skin.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I guess I was one of those goody-two-shoes. Or maybe just a total geek. I think I read things like that more often than my parents did, and took them seriously. My attitude on hearing discussions like this was always, "If providing the facts isn't effective, what the heck would be?" But I know I'm far from typical.
posted
I was a geek too, and mostly learned about sex from osmosis and I'd still cringe over those sort of statements. Teenagers are not stupid. They understand some things about sex. There is no reason for parents to talk down to them, just come out and say, "Be responsible when it comes to sex, wait unitl you're ready and if you can't wait, use protection."
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:I heard that there was a wild party last weekend after the game. Have your friends been talking about it? Did you know that alcohol and drugs really increase the chances of having sex and geting (sic) a disease?
Since alcohol and drugs won't increase the communicability of AIDS, what's little Billy supposed to infer from this brilliant statement?
"If I drink this beer, my chances to score will greatly improve!"
quote:I was at the store yesterday and ran into Kendrick, Mrs. Jakes' son. He joined the military after high school. What do you think you want to do when you graduate from high school?
The kid's name is Kendrick Jakes? Bet his drill sergeant had fun with that one.
Posts: 4600 | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote: If you ask your teen, “Do you think there is a lot of pressure to have sex at your school?” they are more likely to open up and talk to you than if you warn, “You’d better not be having sex!”
O.o If my parents had asked me this, I'd not have a clue what to say other than "um"!
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:“Do you think there is a lot of pressure to have sex at your school?”
And if I were asked that, I'd have to be a smarta** and tell whichever parent that asked, "Of course not. The pressure is to have sex in a discrete location."
quote: And if I were asked that, I'd have to be a smarta** and tell whichever parent that asked, "Of course not. The pressure is to have sex in a discrete location."
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
