posted
Well, not to turn this into another "teachers get crappy pay" thread, if they were paying me more to wear it, I'd still be irritated...but a lot less so.
One teacher's argument FOR the dress code while playing devil's advocate was, "Well, we wanted to be treated like professionals. Maybe we should dress like them. Maybe we brought this on ourselves."
My response is still, professional dress depends on the profession. However, if you want us to dress by your standards of professionalism, then pay us by the same standards of professionalism.
In a different email/speech, she addressed the issue of parents who constantly showed up thirty-forty minutes late for conferences, if they showed up at all. Teachers were losing their entire planning periods waiting for no-shows. We requested that we be able to leave after 15 minutes and ask the parent to reschedule, given that we only get 45 minutes to plan, run errands, write tests, etc., each day. After all, if we are professionals, well, in doctors' offices the patient usually ends up waiting a good long time, not the other way around. Same with lawyers, dentists, and other "accepted" professionals.
Her response was, "Well folks," (these are pretty much her exact words), "you are in the service industry. Bring some work to do and wait the whole forty-five minutes." Number one, in Orlando, the service industry means sheet-changers and burger flippers and while there is nothing wrong with these professions, it is not what I do. Secondly, there are an awful lot of chores that I carry out during my planning period that cannot simply be "brought with me" to sit and wait in an otherwise empty meeting room. Do I believe for one minute that if I dress more professionally according to her standards that SHE will treat me like a professional? Nope.
As for the all white or all black sneakers, that's what I wear now (with the exception of a very tiny Mickey Mouse on the side) I do live in Celebration, Florida, after all. Apparently, these are still unacceptable.
quote:Either way, they are not to be respected or trusted
Irami, I have a suggestion for you: condition yourself to have better first impressions of other people. Start expecting the best from people - you might start seeing it.
Seriously, it seems like you go out of your way to see the worst in people.
posted
I really want to sympathize, Cor, but it's hard when I keep pulling up mental images of plunging a guests toilet at 3am in a full suit, tie and dress shoes (only to find it plugged with a syringe). I would sweat like a dog and, if management was around, I wasn't allowed to remove my coat and tie for any reason.
I also have bad feet (and a terrible back). Part of the job description was to stand for 8 hours a day and take my lunch on my feet.
God, I'm glad I'm out of the hospitality industry.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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Does your school sell t-shirts, polos, or sweatshirts for fundraising? I used to work in a very stuffy environment where polos were not allowed. We were, however, allowed to wear polos with our company's name on them. If your boss objects, ask her in an incredulous tone, "What, you have something against school spirit!?"
Khakis are ok, especially if you buy the non-wrinkle kind. Curdoroy pants are also comfortable.
[ April 04, 2005, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Beren One Hand ]
Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
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You know, most people in the service industry are provided with uniforms and name tags.
What does your contract say? Do you have one? Is there a dress code in it? Are the rules of the contract Do you have any recourse? Does she actually have the power to force you to?
Posts: 171 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Primal Curve, you have my utmost sympathy and assurance that those dress requirements for those tasks were absolutely ridiclous. And if I saw you doing those tasks in a suit and tie, I would be far more likely to laugh at the ridiculousness of it than think, "Man, he certainly looks professional in that suit and tie." The goal of the dress code to impress me would not have been reached at all. Don't get me wrong. I like to look at people who dress well. But sending a sanitation worker out in a tux, for example, is silly.
And before I am taken the wrong way and accidentally offend someone, I am neither saying that your situation was laughable, nor am I making any sort of comparison, positive or negative, between the hospitality industry and the sanitation department.
quote: Khakis are ok, especially if you buy the non-wrinkle kind. Curdoroy pants are also comfortable.
For you.
I know some people who would be comfortable in a tuxedo. Just because you are comfortable in it, doesn't mean it's comfortable.
Posts: 171 | Registered: Jun 2001
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I don't know.. Corporate dudes in suits are a bit scary... Yet, other dudes in suits are intriguing. I guess it depends on their motives and who they are... Politicians
One of the things I dread about trying to transition into the workforce is CLOTHES. Respectable female clothes scare me.
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Beren, I am allowed to wear company logo polos...of which I own...one.
Jack, I agree. I am not personally comfortable in khakis or corduroy (and I'm not sure I can spell it at this hour, either ) which is why I feel that anything unrevealing, clean, unripped, and not promoting anything inappropraite should be fine. The contract is not specific but as I mentioned earlier, our union is apparently so weak that it is unwilling to address this issue.
Posts: 676 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Irami, I have a suggestion for you: condition yourself to have better first impressions of other people. Start expecting the best from people - you might start seeing it.
Seriously, it seems like you go out of your way to see the worst in people.
Man, I'm cool. The stakes are too high for me to start messing around with that self-delusion. It's only been ten years or so that I've been confident enough to trust myself in my judgments and articulate what I see. Thanks for caring, though.
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Elastic waist band khakis are the most comfortable pants I've ever worn. The fabric is cool and does not limit your legs' range of motion the way jeans do. You never have to struggle to get in or out of them or undo a button when you visit a buffet. Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Well, fine, Irami. Nice to know if you ever see me (or had seen me 8 years ago - I'm not sure what age you are) that I'm not to be respected or trusted, and are probably either taking myself too seriously or exploiting you.
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I shudder to think what Irami would say upon meeting me in a suit.
------
That said....
quote: However, I do know that in the working world, you will have bosses that set standards, and you should have to abide by them.
Belle, part of the issue here is that Cor was not hired in to serve beneath this boss. In many jobs -- including mine and hers -- bosses come and go, selected by "administration" to "manage" people who have been doing their job generally admirably for decades.
Being required to "abide" by the whims and ridiculous managerial fashions -- and I'm talking about more than clothing, here -- currently favored by the Arrogant New Boss of the Week is in fact one of the most annoying parts of my industry, and I'm sure that it's even worse in teaching, where bosses are often elected.
I have yet to work for a manager for whom I've had any actual respect. I get my job done despite them -- and don't feel that this is an unusual attitude.
When we institute a new policy at work, we have all the employees sign that they understand and agree to follow the new policy. If we were to terminate someone based on a new rule that they had not agreed to as a term of their employment, we would be libel for wrongful termination.
Did you and your colleagues agree to abide by the new principal's policy?
quote:First, she commented that half the faculty looks like it is going to the beach instead of work. Next, she read us all a little poem about how "Professionalism Begins With Appearance" which was incredibly condescending.
This woman obviously has no HR training whatsoever. You are not going to get people to comply with your policies if you follow up an insult by condescending to them. A poem? That's just ridiculous. If she wants to be taken seriously, then she shouldn't trivialize the issue with an annoying poem (I actually really want to hear the poem - it sounds awesomely bad).
quote:When someone voiced that this would cost money her reply was, "Don't give me that excuse. Walmart has nice clothes."
That is totally out of line. She has no idea of the financial status of the faculty and staff, nor is it her business.
Regardless of how I feel about this issue (personally, I love strict dress codes and I think that all students should wear uniforms), this woman is approaching it in the wrong way and she is not being respectful to people who she needs to have respect from. I'd wait for her to dig her own grave - if she's like this about a dress code, imagine what she'll do about other issues.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Beren, I personally find khakis reasonably comfortable, but in my line of work, they wear out very quickly. That's why I currently don't own a pair of slacks. I had some at the beginning of the year, but I wore holes in them. Jeans simply last much longer.
-o-
PC, she specifically did not say you were a sanitation worker. Rather, this was an example of a similarly ridiculous hypothetical dress code. (You also weren't wearing a tux, were you?)
-o-
I've never seen a university where professors had a dress code. Most of my professors wore jeans and a shirt with a collar, though a few wore ties and one or two wore jackets. So that's where I get my impression of what the definition of "professional attire" for teachers: nothing excessively revealing, nothing dirty or clearly damaged, nothing with inappropriate messages or with advertising, and no T-shirts. I look at the pinnacle of professionalism in my profession:professors and that pretty much defines what the dress code ought to be for me.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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"(personally, I love strict dress codes and I think that all students should wear uniforms),"
I would love to wear a uniform. I do, basically. Pants, short-sleeved shirt or turtleneck under sweater, dorky shoes. In hot weather, capri pants with dorky sandals and some sort of light t-shirt.
I hate figuring out what to wear. If I find a pair of pants I like, I get them in all colors. Same with shirts. So a uniform would be great, as long as there were no skirts involved.
Thing is, no child in a public school, at least in Massachusetts, HAS to wear a uniform, even if it is the dress code. It can only be strongly suggested. Last I knew.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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Depending on your area, nice jeans and a shirt may be MORE appropriate for teachers than skirts and suits. When I taught in the downtown public school, students and parents were less comfortable with me when I dressed up every day. They seemed to trust me more when I dressed closer to the way they dressed. The students (love middle school honesty) wanted me to be "comfortable" and not "uptight". In a rich suburban area, it might be more appropriate to wear dressier clothing.
When it comes to appropriate dress, you need to consider function, your clients' expectations, and the image you want to portray.
How frustrating to have administration so focused on a very small part of education! What would happen if all the teachers collectively decided to ignore the dress code and wear what they would have before? A silent protest of sorts... Would she really fire everybody? What would the Teacher's Union say?
Posts: 3141 | Registered: Apr 2000
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I have to agree with Belle's comment. I've been teaching high school for 24 years, and i am disturbed by the sloppy dress of some younger teachers who DO look more like they're dressing for the beach than as degree-holding professionals. One of the issues in New Zealand, where I live, is the view that the public takes of teachers. It's important to us (and we have a very strong union) that the public sees us as professionals, and that means presenting a particular standard of dress, as the most visible and obvious thing that parents see. No, the way you dress may not make any difference to the kind of teacher you are, but if we expect students to dress to a certain standard then we ought to hold to at least as high a standard ourselves. Now I'm not saying that Cor is dressing 'scruffily', I'm just talking general principles here. I'm an Art teacher and have never worn a tie to school, but I do try to dress in 'smart casual' clothes. At my school we have several teachers whose dress is pretty bad. They are talked to by the Senior Leadership Team, their sense of professionalism is appealed to, and they are left to decide what they will do. Most of them ignore the guidance. They're not penalised in any way, but they do tend to be looked at askance. Your principal sounds like a patronising biddy, out of touch with her teachers, and in need of some guidance on how to handle a very sensitive issue.
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quote:No, the way you dress may not make any difference to the kind of teacher you are, . . .
Actually, I think it does. In my case, I think dressing up too much makes me less effective.
quote:. . . but if we expect students to dress to a certain standard then we ought to hold to at least as high a standard ourselves.
That's not in dispute, really. I specifically mentioned above what "professional dress" means to me, and that is quite a bit more stringent than the dress code the students are held to. As I look around the kids straggling in this morning, I see most in T-shirts, quite a few in ripped clothing, some revealing clothes, and some pants not at the waist. I think teachers should look neater than this, I simply think that jeans that fit well, are in good condition, and are clean fit this guideline.
quote:I hate figuring out what to wear. If I find a pair of pants I like, I get them in all colors. Same with shirts.
Lol, me too!!! Twice a year, in the late fall and spring, I go out and buy new clothes for the season, but they're almost always identical to the clothes they're replacing, which in turn were almost identical to each other. At the moment, my work wardrobe consists of a particular pair of slacks and a particular sweater, each in 5 different colors/patterns.
I think that, for me, it's more of a defense mechanism than anything. It takes me ages to find a piece of clothing that I feel good in, and if I start experimenting, I usually end up hating how I look. I have a couple of coworkers who obviously put a lot of thought into their outfits every morning, and I occasionally get a disapproving glance from one of them.
Cor, I'm 100% on your side in this. There wasn't a dress code when you took the job, and if someone wants to implement one now, this isn't the way to do it. This woman sounds like a real piece of work. I say start looking at the high school!
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Anyone who suggests examples of how khakis are comfortable or those who are even using medical reasons for why non-sneakers can't be worn are missing the point. Nor is the prices at Wal-Mart or the availability of sales for "nicer" clothes the point either. Unless Cor has recieved complaints(or any of the other teachers for that matter)she shouldn't have to change her style at all.
The point of "professional" dress, to me, is the same as being called "Mr." or "Ms." It assumes a certain level of respect. I currently work in both a public elementary school and a residential school (students with serious behavior problems). I can tell you that a teacher's level of education, their professional dress, nor the title of Mr or Ms is near as important as the true measure of respect, good rapport with the students. It would seem that dressing up would serve the purpose of impressing other teachers, administrators, parents, other adults.
What are we really there for? That's right, the kids. It is entirely about the kids. Whenever we get away from that, we become ineffectual. At a previous residential program I worked at (half of it was a school program) I lobbied the staff and admin to abolish the "Mr." from my name. It annoyed me because we shouldn't assume that we are better than the kids. Besides Mr Rob doesn't get along better with kids than regular Rob.
The other problem is the automatic assumption that Jeans and Sneakers means that you come to school dressed like you spent the morning painting your house. Nor does it mean that you are actully dressing like a teenager. Whatever the standards for dress are for Casual Fridays, those can be applied to the rest of the week. Besides your 'professional' dress won't even be an issue with parents. Whether your a good or bad teacher to their kids is what parents care about.
Posts: 23 | Registered: Mar 2005
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LadyDove, nope, we have not agreed to abide by this policy. And I DO wonder what would happen if we simply chose to ignore her requests and continued to wear what we have worn for years. But I have otherwise been so happy with my job for the past three years that I would hate to mess up all the things that HAVE been working for me. I definitely will keep your information in mind, however. Thanks.
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I do that too! I am an extremely hard person to fit in clothing. Tiny waist, big hips are my problems, so anything that fits one place doesn't fit in another. I finally found a brand of jeans that doesn't hang off my waist in order to fit my hips. I bought them in all colors when I dropped 25 pounds a year ago. I didn't buy anything else, so all my other clothes from the private school years are two to three sizes too big for me now. I can't wear any of them. This really will mean purchasing an entirely new wardrobe for me. Now some people would love that excuse to shop. Personally, aside from the financial burden, I really hate shopping for clothes.
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It is my current understanding that all jeans in all colors are unacceptable. I will investigate that further, but that is what has been said. If I could wear jeans in black, white, beige, brown, or army green, I would not be complaining. I'm not that picky. I just want functionality and durability of material. I can get one but not the other in khakis.
Posts: 676 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Cor, my pants of choice for a while were these stretch khakis from JC Penney. They were Trader Bay or something? Anyway, they were so comfortable. I had two pairs of black, two regular khaki, and one stone. I could not find any in navy, or I would have gotten two of those as well.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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I personally do not see anything wrong with imposing a dress code upon a work place. I have to go to work everyday in a suit and high heels, and I wouldn't say that my job is anymore inherently important than a teacher's is. I think that kids would be more inclined to obey and listen to someone who is wearing professional clothes, but maybe not so inclined to approach such a person if a problem occurs in school or their personal life. I suppose it's more of a give and take than anything else.
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quote:" posted April 04, 2005 08:40 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (The reason I ask about the sorority is because we had that same principal at one of our schools. (Blond, pretty, tiny,brand new as a principal, young, impeccably dressed and groomed, superficial, ineffective, and gone in a year. And I'll be damned if I can remember the name of her sorority, but she told us the first time we met her.) I can't imagine having to teach under her. But then again, I don't have much patience for inanity."
Do you think that comments such as this may give the impression that you are showing a slight bigotry towards good-looking people (mostly women)? One of the most obnoxious experiences in life often occurs when people assume that because another individual is good-looking they are either 1) dumb 2) only got the job because of their looks and 3) must not have a "serious" job afterall.
Posts: 57 | Registered: Aug 2003
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FIJC, without defending the profession of teaching being more valuable than anything else. I think that it is not the point to have children simply 'listen' and 'obey'. Plenty of children sit in our classrooms, sitting quietly, not causing a fuss. It's much more important for them to 'learn'. And for that you need a connection, not simply obedience.
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quote:Belle, part of the issue here is that Cor was not hired in to serve beneath this boss. In many jobs -- including mine and hers -- bosses come and go, selected by "administration" to "manage" people who have been doing their job generally admirably for decades.
What are you advocating Tom? That is a new boss comes in and asks you to do something you should be able to say "I wasn't hired under you so I don't have to do it." Like a stepchild who tells his new stepfather "I don't have to do it because you're not my real daddy?"
It doesn't matter who you were hired under. If you are in a profession where you are expected to work under someone elses' authority, then you must respect that authority. If a new administrator comes in, you have two choices - either do what they tell you to, or leave.
I've not always been a stay-at-home mom, you know. I've worked in the corporate world, and in education - for a university. I know exactly what you're talking about - I had three bosses when I worked for UAB. And guess what? I had to do what I was told by all three. And all three did things different ways. One didn't care how I did the paperwork I was assigned, so long as it got done. Another insisted that it be done in the morning, and wanted us to finish it all before doing anything else. One even had different standards for dress - just like this. We used to be able to wear business casual every day, but he changed that to only allowing business casual on Fridays. I changed the way I dressed on Monday-Thursday.
I am astounded that people don't seem to think they should have to adapt for a new boss. That's part of working and everyone that has a job has to face it.
Cor can make an issue of this. She can continue to wear jeans in defiance, or she can loudly complain and make a lot of noise. But if she does, she should know that those actions may well have consequences she doesn't like.
Or, she can invest in a different wardrobe and do what her boss tells her to do. I think that's the smarter solution. Whether she likes this person or not, this person is her boss, and part of getting along in the world and making money is to do what is expected of you by your boss. And one thing that bosses get to do in this world is set dress codes.
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(Just a clarification, not an argument: In point of fact, the contract does not specify that she has that right. The union acknowledges that she does not, but simply does not feel it is worth their effort to pursue.)
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If that's the case, then wide-spread disregarding of the rule will work. One person disregarding invites retaliation (bad schedule, etc.). Retaliation against the whole staff is much harder.
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quote:In a different email/speech, she addressed the issue of parents who constantly showed up thirty-forty minutes late for conferences, if they showed up at all. Teachers were losing their entire planning periods waiting for no-shows. We requested that we be able to leave after 15 minutes and ask the parent to reschedule, given that we only get 45 minutes to plan, run errands, write tests, etc., each day. After all, if we are professionals, well, in doctors' offices the patient usually ends up waiting a good long time, not the other way around. Same with lawyers, dentists, and other "accepted" professionals.
Her response was, "Well folks," (these are pretty much her exact words), "you are in the service industry. Bring some work to do and wait the whole forty-five minutes." Number one, in Orlando, the service industry means sheet-changers and burger flippers and while there is nothing wrong with these professions, it is not what I do. Secondly, there are an awful lot of chores that I carry out during my planning period that cannot simply be "brought with me" to sit and wait in an otherwise empty meeting room. Do I believe for one minute that if I dress more professionally according to her standards that SHE will treat me like a professional? Nope.
Wow, I don't know how I missed this. This really crosses the line. First, teachers are not in the service industry, they are in education. Second, she is telling her staff that their time is not as important as whatever the parents are doing that is making them late. It seems that she is already taking the sides of parents over her teachers and that is a huge mistake.
I wonder how long she would wait if y'all were late to a staff meeting? Would she stick around for 45 minutes? After all, she is in the service industry. Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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The handbook says "professional dress" does it not?
I don't know of many places where jeans and sneakers is considered professional dress.
If the handbook doesn't specifically spell out the dress code, then I would expect that someone in authority has the ability to set the standards whether it's the principal or the school board.
Most good handbooks don't leave room for this type of ambiguity, it solves a lot of problems. Perhaps to make things easier, someone should suggest an updating of the handbook?
They need my mom. This is one of the things she does as an independent human resources consultant. She goes in, evaluates handbooks, and makes suggestions to prevent problems like this, though she doesn't write actual handbooks for people - she recommends they hire an attorney with HR experience to do the actual writing.
Maybe it's her influence that has me so astounded by this thread, because another thing she does is speak on image and professionalism. I have even assisted and done presentations with her, and hope to do more as her independent work grows and my kids get older.
Dress isn't all that defines professionalism, but it's part of it. And I truly do think that teachers should dress better than their students.
In fact, if I came to my kids school for a conference (which I wouldn't be 45 minutes late for ) and the teacher was in sneakers and jeans I would not be impressed nor would I be pleased. In fact, I dress better than that when I go to a meeting at the school - out of respect for the professionals I'm meeting with. If I showed up at the meeting and found I was more professionally dressed than the teachers or administrators, it would bother me.
*shrug* Maybe that's just me, or my mom's influence, like I said. But I do believe that if you want to be taken seriously as a professional, you should act like one. And no, dress isn't all there is, but it's a part of it.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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As long as a teacher was dressed in clothes that were clean, well taken care of, and not obscene, I would not feel comfortable or uncomfortable based on their appearance in a meeting with them. (If they hadn't washed, that might be a different matter.) I would feel comfortable or uncomfortable based on what they were saying and how they were addressing my concerns about my child's education and welfare. I think in many situations I would respect the opinions of a teacher who was dressed to hang out with kids more than one who was dressed for the office.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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First off, I certainly hope that my displeasure with and desire to change an administrative mandate is not being directly compared to a child and a step-parent. I am a mature and competent adult who can decide for herself what kinds of responses she wants from students (and parents), not a child who needs guidance and has not matured enough to know what may or may not be good for him or her.
Secondly, in the parent/teacher conference you referred to, if this teacher had thoroughly taught your child all the material, contacted you if and when there was ever a problem, responded to emails and voicemails within 24 hours consistently, and had a wonderful rapport with your child, would you still be "displeased" that she wore jeans and sneakers? If so, that saddens me.
Parents show up at conferences in a wide variety of fashions, everything from Disney uniforms, to jeans, to business suits. None of it phases me one way or the other and I do not pass judgments based on the clothes they decide to wear to meet with me. I merely take their clothing as a reflection of their lives and the tasks they need to perform. The only type of attire that we whisper about behind parents' backs is the kind that is extremely revealing or so skin tight that it reveals each body part in high definition. And even that, I suppose, is somewhat hypocritical on my part. For all I know, that kind of attire is part of his/her job requirement (hmm...).
In my polo shirt, I am still one step more nicely dressed than my students who predominantly wear t-shirts so I am a bit more "formal" without being so far removed from them that I am unapproachable.
Again, though, Belle, I am not trying to get defensive on you (or anyone else), and I welcome debate. Clearly we are not going to convince one another to change opinions on this and that's fine. I simply wanted to vent as stated in the thread's title, and I was looking to make sure I wasn't entirely out in left field by being upset/annoyed by this. Clearly from the responses here on the forum and all over my campus, I am not. Will I actually do anything about it? I haven't decided yet. But the suggestions by all are appreciated.
posted
"I am astounded that people don't seem to think they should have to adapt for a new boss."
I personally believe that new bosses, by and large, should make an effort to adapt to their existing employees first. That they do not do this is a symptom of the tyranny of middle management.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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On the up-side, I had my follow-up meeting with the assistant principal about my yearly observation today. I had done a lesson on participles vs. gerunds with my honors class. I received an incredibly favorable review, perhaps the most positive I've ever gotten. However, a good amount of credit must go to the class. They were really on task, showing off their knowledge for the assistant principal, and extremely well-behaved. I was thrilled with the students, and my follow-up meeting. The ASSISTANT principal made no comments about my appearance, either positive or negative, and yes, I was wearing jeans and sneakers. He only commented on my performance. Perhaps with him in the office, a balance can be reached between the assistant principal and the principal.
posted
I think that the problem is not respecting the wishes of a new boss, it's being forced to bend under and pretend that this condescending attitude of this principal's is OK.
Obviously making statements like, "Don't give me that excuse. Walmart has nice clothes," is not making her any friends in her work. That would make me so completely blindingly angry... Especially if this lady's wearing high fashion.
I agree that one should respect the wishes of a new boss and be helpful when someone is trying to find their footing in a new situation. I don't believe that a person should have to take crap from a new boss just because they're A. new or B. the boss. It's obvious that this lady doesn't think very highly of the people she's working above, or if she does, she's pretty damn bad at showing it.
There are a lot of bad managers, this I agree with. But there'll continue to be even more if people just let it happen.
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I'd have to side with the boss on this one, not out of a matter of principle, but as a matter of so what. Besides shoes-- a woman should be the master of her own shoes-- I don't think that your boss is being unreasonable.
She is the administrator. She comes with quirks. At the end of the day, she does paper work and you teach kids. You are a hero and she is a secretary.
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote: you have two choices - either do what they tell you to, or leave.
Belle, later in the same post you say Cor or other teachers can challenge the dress code.
Also, I wonder why vagueness in the handbook defaults to the management POV? I would look at it the opposite way.
Tom, you made a good point about new managers' adjusting to the group they try to manage. The "my way or the highway" style may work in the Army, but in business it just irks people, leads to turnover of creative types, and encourages sycophants.
Irami, good to know you have different standards of knee-jerk reactions for men, women, over-weight people , medical professionals, etc. Remind me to dress as a nurse when I cross the room to avoid you, in case you might mug me.
posted
It's funny, I support it when people gush over firefighters. At which time, supporting a person because of their profession seems honorable. I have a soft spot for teachers, and I like that some vendors offer a teachers discount.
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I think that Cor should wear whatever works for her.
But as a sidenote:
I recently started wearing ties to work 2-3 times a week.
Our somewhat-official dress code for men is "liberal office casual" -- no jeans and the shirt has to have a collar. There are usually only two or three times a year when we are required to wear a tie.
People kept asking me if I had a job interview. But I told everybody that if I really was trying to look more professional, I'd shave every day (instead of once or twice a week).
I originally started the tie thing because I felt sorry for all of the ties in my closet that only came out on Sundays. Plus I was sick of wearing dress shirts with a big gaping neck -- I'm a skinny guy and it just doesn't work on me. I could switch from dress shirts to polo shirts, but I've always hated polo/golf shirts.
I have to say, that it's working for me. I like it. I don't find ties uncomfortable, and I enjoy having an accessory where I can throw in a bit of color and pattern to the mix without having to wear plaid pants or some crazy striped shirt. Plus I simply look good.
It would be a different matter if I had to wear a suit. I'm not fond of suits -- I'm a nice trousers or khakis and sports coat kind of guy.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote: In fact, I dress better than that when I go to a meeting at the school - out of respect for the professionals I'm meeting with. If I showed up at the meeting and found I was more professionally dressed than the teachers or administrators, it would bother me.
As Cor noted, when I go to a parent/teacher coference, my ONLY concern is how well my child is performing/enjoying/or behaving in school. Maybe it's different for elementary school, but the only bad teachers my kids have had are the ones who came to school in skirts and heels. These women made themselves unavailable to run in the grass or play basketball with the kids. They couldn't do the messy art projects and the "professional" clothing was like a protective barrier between themselves and the kids.
Last week we were talking about the way professional dress has changed. My salespeople wear a suit and tie maybe once a month. Most of the time they wear khaki's and a polo shirt. They are more relaxed with the clients when they aren't afraid of dirtying themselves by carrying the chair into the office or getting down on their knees to measure an individual. In addition to this, the client is more comfortable because, surprise! the clients are dressed the same way.
Since the teacher's profession is to teach and be a role model for our kids, I'm impressed by someone who comes to the classroom with a well-dressed mind who is willing and *able* to do the job. I'll take enthusiam over pressed pants any day of the week
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Yeah, I agree with you about that Lady Dove. Thinking about it, the teachers I liked the least for their insensitive and condescending teaching style were the ones who were dressed up the most.
I agree with Cor, and I say this even being a fan of suits and ties. My Daddy wore a suit and tie every day he went to work until I was probably sixteen or seventeen. I have fond memories of giving him hugs goodbye.
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I do live in Celebration, Florida, after all. Apparently, these are still unacceptable.
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