posted
Gotta have books with sad endings to make the books with happy endings mean anything.
How boring would it be to read and book and know for certain that the perile the main character is in will be defeated?
So who is this Lemony Skickets fellow? Didn't he just have a movie? What books does he write and are they all kid books? (or kid books in the same way Harry Potter is a kid book?)
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
The Lemony Snicket books are geared toward junior high (I would say), but I'm 26, and I love them. They are depressing, but still entertaining. And the movie was good, but it deviated quite a bit.
Posts: 226 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Certainly I prefer books with happy endings. I want to see the hero triumph over the enemy. However, sad endings, especially in a series of books, can help a main character grow and be more realistic. If the hero wins all the time, it gets too predictable.
As a teacher, however, it can be really tough to teach the sad books. It does provide a kind of emotional outlet for the students, but when two thirds of a class bursts into tears (as they did when we read Where the Red Fern Grows) it can be really upsetting to everyone. I will never teach that book again. It depressed me for days.
Posts: 676 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Since sarcasm and subtle humor are often lost on the internet, I just want to clarify: You do know they're kidding, right? It's not a real organization, and they're not really trying to promote happy endings. They're just poking fun at the Lemony Snicket books, which never have a happy ending. And they've taken it to a level of happiness that is plain sickening. I find it hilarious.
I love the Lemony Snicket books. They're tragic and funny at the same time.
Posts: 486 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Ha ha. It's just that The Pixiest and Cor seemed to be starting a more serious discussion of happy endings vs. sad endings. Which is cool, I just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page.
Posts: 486 | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: I just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page.
Only 8 posts - make it 9 with this one. So yeah, we're still on the same page.
On a more serious note, I don't mind sad endings that much, but there's one where I wanted to beat the crap out of whoever thought of it. It's actually a movie.
*****SPOILERS*****
Although probably everyone has seen it, it's this one. When Meg's character is killed I really felt like shouting "Take me!"... It didn't ruin the movie, it probably made it even harder to forget than if it had ended on a happy note. But boy, was I pissed about it!
Hmm, I just looked at the imdb rating. Only 6.2?! Wow... Although I'm a big fan of both Nicholas Cage and Meg Ryan, so that might explain why for me it's somewhere around 9.5/10.
Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
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There's a really corny movie that had a surprising ending. Princess of Thieves, about Robin Hood's daughter, starring Keira Knightly.
*SPOILERS* * * * * * * * * * So the whole movie, she's protecting the prince, and it's obvious they like each other. They even admit it at one part. But in the end, they say something like, "And he became the king and she stayed in the woods protecting him from afar and neither of them ever got married. The end." I mean, the story was pretty good, but it was already really cheesy. You'd think they would have at least included a happy, lovey-dovey ending.
Posts: 486 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
The Pixiest: I don't have answers to all your questions, but Lemony Snicket is a pen name for a man named Daniel Handler. He has written books for adults under his own name.
The movie that came out at Christmas was loosely based on the first three books of Lemony Snicket's, "The Series of Unfortunate Events". The series is marketed to kids, but I (as an adult) appreciate the dark humor and jokes/references which may not be as obvious to a child.
Posts: 74 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I fail to see the value in marketing cynicism to children. I hated the Lemony Snicket books because to me they're just an extension of the current murkiness phase of artistic taste. I think the point of literature is to educate, to uplift, to inspire.
This doesn't mean books have to be "happy." There's nothing productive in teaching children that no matter what they do, stuff sucks. There is, however, value in teaching them how to deal with tragedy and make their lives better in spite of it. Where the Red Fern Grows is, I think, a fantastic book. It teaches the value of love and sacrifice and learning and growing in spite of tragic events. Lemony Snicket teaches kids that there is no value in being a "good guy," that we can sneer at moral values because they're obsolete, and that there's no hope in this world.
If you want to talk reality, how about acknowleging studies that say that optimists lead longer, healthier lives?
Posts: 285 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote: how about acknowleging studies that say that optimists lead longer, healthier lives?
Darn... I tried optimism, didn't fit well into my reality. Should we still "teach" it to the kids? Yes, as you said, they should know that trying to work their problems out in a "good" way is the thing to do. But lately I really wonder if it's really worth it, if we don't just delusion ourselves instead of taking life for what it is. Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I dunno about the purose of literature... I always thought it's purpose, as the purpose of any art, is to invoke an emotion. A book/movie/show that makes you sob uncontrollably is as successful as one that makes you whistle a happy jig for days.
And if all you ever have is happy endings then they lose their meaning. "Ho hum, the hero rescued their love interest again. yawn."
That is NOT saying I prefer unhappy endings, just that too much of that sugary stuff will rot your teeth =)
Of course, the best IMHO stories are ones with great loss in the middle that lead to a happy ending. mm.. maybe a bittersweet ending.
posted
Hmm. I don't buy that the world is inherently negative. I keep having too many experiences to the contrary.
Posts: 285 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I'll admit that I haven't read the Lemony Snicket books yet, but the feeling I've got from them is that they are humorous hyperbole. It isn't meant to be truly depressing so much as to be bitterly funny. Sort of like how Eeyore was really a comic character, even though he was terribly depressed. It mocks those who are cynical, and points out how ridiculous it is to be overly anxious and worry incessantly.
Posts: 349 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
I detest Snicket. I don't like his style. The seemingly random author interjections annoy me immensely. I also just can't care about the characters.
Posts: 132 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I think the books are funny in a gothic sort of way. Hilarious in fact. I don't know why. They are tragic in bits, but not cynical, the kids have each other, they try to solve their problems and use their skills as best as they can. Even though it always turns out bad in the end, they still look out for each other, and that is a good message.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Sad ending. Last time I read it I wept my eyes out... Which I didn't do teh first time I read it. I think I am getting emotional in my old age. Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Well, I didn't weep because I knew it had a sad ending and I was reading it in the way that isn't condusive to tears but I definately was shocked and teary-eyed.
posted
I can't think of many noir books that ended well. A lot of my favorite books and stories end with the heroes in doubt and with no certain resolution. Welcome to real life. I sincerely doubt if there are many happy "endings" here, whatever you think an "ending" is.
To quote Watchmen from vague memory, "Nothing ends, Veidt. Nothing ever ends."
Posts: 2258 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote: Lemony Snicket teaches kids that there is no value in being a "good guy," that we can sneer at moral values because they're obsolete, and that there's no hope in this world.
How does Lemony Snicket teach that moral values are obsolete? I find that in his books, there is a great distinction between the good guys and the bad guys. The good guys do the right thing and the bad guys do the wrong thing. It's pretty clear which one we should strive for.
And it's not that there's no value in being a good guy. It's just that when bad things happen to you, and they certainly will, it doesn't give you an excuse to become a bad person.
Maybe I'm just reading these books from my optimistic point of view and finding the good in them. If nothing else, I think it's a fascinating story told in a very amusing way.
Posts: 486 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Boon
unregistered
posted
If there's no bad stuff, how do you know that what you have is good?
Lemony Snicket SPOILERS:
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I only JUST read the first one, and I didn't think it was that depressing or tragic. Yes, the parents die. Yes, they have to go live with the Count. Yes, bad stuff happens. Yes, the other adults in their lives fail to help them.
BUT, at the end, the bad guy didn't win, and, while the children don't get to live with the Judge, they still have each other and the banker knows the Count is a bad guy. That's gotta count for something, right?
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