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How do you get your baby to sleep? My 6 month old cries the moment I head to the crib. To get any sleep at all I have her in bed w/me and it's uncomfortable. Any suggestions?
Establish a nighttime/bedtime ritual that does NOT include any type of roughhousing. (Singing quiet songs, reading aloud)
You may want to try putting her in her crib, and standing over her, patting her back, singing gently to her. Leave when she's settled down-- and if she cries again, let her cry for a while. It really depends on the age as for how long you let her cry-- I think Belle once mentioned 10 minutes. Go back in, repeat the quiet ritual above.
I've had really good kids when it comes to bedtime-- they've spoiled us, honestly. So, YMMV.
Good luck!
[ April 27, 2005, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: Scott R ]
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Okay, so please don't take this the wrong way, but my husband and I see our 7 month old puppy as, seriously, our practice child. I don't mean to belittle your problem.
The conventional wisdom with puppies is that, unless you want them sleeping in bed with you forever, you have to get them used to being crated at night as soon as they come home at 8 weeks old. I'm thinking that an 8-week-old puppy is pretty close to a 6-month-old child in developmental stages... and with a puppy, you teach it to sleep by itself by putting it in its crate in your room, but refusing to comfort it when it cries. You just ignore it. Libbey had about 5 nights of murderous screams before she settled in and accepted that no amount of crying would get her what she wanted, and she's been quiet ever since in her crate in the living room at night.
I'm curious if anyone recommends this kind of thing for human babies, too? Is there something different about humans that would make ignoring the cries of a 6+ month baby a bad idea, or ineffective? I'm honestly curious. I've heard that Native Americans couldn't afford to have crying babies with them when they needed silence, so babies were taught right away not to cry... I wonder how that worked?
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Though it might sound cruel, and you might feel like horrible parents, as far as I understand it only takes one night of a baby crying themselves to sleep, and after that they'll go to bed quietly.
I'm sure there are several factors in this method, but I'd suggest sticking it out. Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
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We had similar problems with Ryan, but they weren't too bad, so I'm not sure how well this will work for you.
We would put Ryan in his crib, crying or not, and leave him for 4 or 5 minutes. One of us would then go back in and stroke his back or head, sing to him, whatever to calm him down. We did not pick him back up. Leave the room again for a longer period, say 8 to 10 minutes and go in again. Keep stretching out the time to get her use to being alone, but letting her know your still close by.
Even 5 minutes will seem like an eternity when you're baby is crying, but it for the good of everyone.
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Please listen to their advice and let the baby cry. I lost this battle with my family. I insisted that we put Toshi (9 months) in the crib and he screamed bloody murder. After two hours my wife could not take it anymore--nothing seemed to calm him down.
I kept saying we need to do this for possibly 3 nights and he will learn, but she just shot me the dirtiest looks because I would dare let a baby cry. She had just read a book that advocated not letting babies cry and how you can't spoil them.
Nine months later he is so entrenched that I don't know how we will get him out any time soon. Now she knows it was a mistake, but if we put him into the crib he goes ballistic. I am strong enough for that, but my wife has won the battle of where he sleeps.
Please don't make the same mistake and endure a few nights or frantic crying.
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lem, I have friends whose son slept with them for almost 3 years because of that. Even now, at 5, he will still wake up in the middle of the night and go to their bed.
I believe that you can't spoil a child, but you also can't hurt them by letting them cry sometimes.
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My first daughter wailed when we put her in her crib. Most nights we would rock her to sleep, and attempt to put her in her crib, hopefully without waking her. Eventually we just let her cry, and it was difficult, but necessary. My second daughter loves her crib, and will only cry if she really doesn't want to go to sleep. Even then, we learned our lesson with the 1st kid, and she stays in her crib unless she's sick or screaming bloody murder.
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I really have to chime in from "the other side". We only used a crib for three days, and have always picked up our babies at the first fuss. I never felt burdened by it (they transitioned from our beds betwween two and four, and we saw it as a process). I felt right to me.
I say listen to your instincts. If they say that a few minutes of lone fussing is what your baby needs to sleep, do that. But if your internal buzzers go off when your baby cries, by all means pick her up and don't let anyone try to convince you she needs to cry.
I have some friends who found success with "The No-Cry Sleep Solution" I have not read it myself.
Check out Dr. Sears sleep page, which has many no-cry sleep solutions for crib, family bed or a combination thereof:
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I brought our son into bed with us for the first six months or so, and he is a well adjusted 8 year old who never had trouble with bedtime when he grew out of infancy.
Do what you feel is right. You will hear a different answer to this question from just about every parent.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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I don't believe in letting a baby "cry it out" and have never done it.
William Sears (the link romanylass posted) has some good ideas on dealing with sleep issues, and has written a book about it called Nighttime Parenting, which I found helpful when my kids were little.
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We tried the Ferber (Faber?Fabar?) method with Robert. You crib 'em and leave 'em for five minutes, then go in if they are still crying and tell them you love them, the leave again, this time for 10 minutes, and so forth.
It was crap. The going back in just got him worked up. The truth is, we just COULDN'T sleep with him in the bed with us after he was several month old. It was horrible. He was happy, but we were sleep-deprived, cranky and snappish. We could get him cribbed okay, but he would cry at 3am until we brought him to bed with us.
We talked to our doctor, and he said we were rewarding his crying by bringing him to bed (he wasn't wet or hungry or anything, we always checked that first). He said to check his diaper and do what we had been doing to make sure his distress wasn't due to anything other than wanting us to get him, and then let him cry.
It was a week of sheer hell, for all of us, but when it was over we all slept soundly all night. Babies need to learn how to comfort themselves and fall back to sleep on their own, eventually. We all do it, every night.
Now, if you're cool with having a kid in your bed for the forseeable future, then do what feels right for you. But if your sleep-deprivation and discomfort from having a wriggling baby in bed with you all night is making it hard for you to function, then, bite the bullet. It will be painful, but you'll be glad you did it.
The boys still crawl in bed with us in the morning sometimes, but we set the 'we sleep in separate places' rule a long time ago. We didn't do it lightly, because of inconvenience. We did it because we were at eachother's throats and crazy with tiredness. It was the only way we could continue to like each other.
As always, I respect the choices others have made, but no one thing is going to work for every situation. That's why I add the lovely 'net abbreviation: YMMV Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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It's Ferber. And while I respect that Ferberizing doesn't work for everyone, a modified Ferber method has worked well for me. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Yeah, I know it works for almost everyone. Robert wasn't cooperating, though.
Liam on the other hand... Liam was like me. When he wanted to sleep, you put him in his bed and left him the heck alone if you knew what was good for you. Period. No rocking and singing and crap. This only became clear to me when he was about 10 months old. He was always crank when I'd sing to him and rock him and stuff, but I'd always done it with Robert.
One night he just pushed away from me, pointed to his bed and said, "Beh!" Very cranky.
I put him in his bed and he was asleep before I straightened the covers. He was such an easy baby. It all went out the window once he got mobile, though (I mean that literally as well as figuratively - he was always trying to climb out windows ).
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There were nights where one of us would sit by his crib with our hand on him shushing him or singing to him for 15 or 20 minutes before he would calm down.
At this point, we always go in if he's crying. He's a good sleeper now, so he doesn't really cry at night unless he's got a good reason.
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If you're not comfortable with co-sleeping, or the cry it out method, I would suggest setting up a bedtime ritual with your baby. When my kids were babies we usually read a book, nursed, then rocked. We would also say "night night" to all of the stuffed animals that slept in the room. My goal was always to have them relaxed enough when they went into their crib that they were ready to sleep without crying for more than a minute or two. Yes, it takes more time than just putting them in there and letting them cry for 30 minutes - but everything about parenting takes time, neh? I felt it worth it to set up good sleeping habits and to teach them self-comfort in a gentle manner.
space opera
[ April 27, 2005, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: Space Opera ]
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I don't think anyone has "degraded" co-sleeping. Rather, they explained why it didn't work for them, neh?
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*sigh* I'm sorry rivka. It's been a long day already and I don't want to argue over word choice. I was trying to say that co-sleeping is an option even though many people don't see it as one. As you'll note in my post, I chose not to co-sleep, either.
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I'm with rivka about a modified Ferber. I'm a big fan of going-to-bed routines -- they seem to help a lot when transitioning from the crib to a bed, and seem to make bedtime a lot easier when you travel with your children. The routine says without words, "It's time for bed."
Our routine has evolved over time, but started off with nursing, singing a song or reading a story, then laying the baby down in her crib and swaddling her. Low lights and soft music lower the stimulation level.
It worked well for me to get out of earshot for 5 minutes after laying her down. I'd go back and check on her after 5 minutes, pick her up for a moment, help her get a little calmer, lay her down and stroke her hair while singing very softly. Sometimes I'd sing-song something like "It's time to learn how to sleep by yourself. That's my big girl, sleeping by herself..." This was more for me than her. Then I'd go out for another 5 minutes.
The routine really does help over the long run. We recently took our 3 year old with us on a cruise and learned quickly that if we kept her regular night-time routine, she took good naps and bedtime wasn't a hassle at all.
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Regarding my friends who did co-sleeping, I don't think their son is in anyway negatively affected by it.
The dad, on the other hand, has spent many nights sleeping in his son's room. His son thrashes around a lot and if he wants any sleep at all, he has to switch rooms.
jeni, how was that cruise? Did you specifically pick one geared towards families with small children?
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You know, I've noticed that Emma is usually pretty good about going to bed when she's tired if there's not too much stress going on. But when we're stressed, she's stressed, and when she's stressed, she has night terrors, screams for half an hour until we pick her up if we put her down, and wakes up in the middle of the night. (I think this is genetic; when stressed, I am an insomniac sleep-walker, -talker, -self-injurer, and -fighter. If my husband hadn't learned how to comfort, redirect, and when necessary restrain me by now, I would probably be a sleep-attempted-murderer. ) I don't know if this is what you're talking about-- a kid who used to sleep fine and is now not-- but we've found that lots of extra, loving attention like hugs and cuddles during the day, winding down for at least two hours before bed (no tickling, horseplay, bouncing, or playing with noisy toys; bathtime early in the wind-down period, followed by book-reading, nursing, cuddling, soothing songs, tooth-brushing, and more cuddling), and then putting her down right when she's tired, not before and not when she's overtired, has reduced the problem for us. In our case, I don't think it's a case of her needing to learn to self-soothe; she knows how, and when she's doing okay, will sing or quietly talk herself to sleep; we also have a tape player in her crib she can turn on for quiet music if she wants it, as well as the Ocean Wonders Aquarium from Fisher Price, which she sometimes turns on to go to sleep by. We still take her into our bed if she wakes up inconsolable and asks for "na-nas". That's really uncommon now, so when it happens, we figure she knows what she needs, and after that, she usually goes back down without a fuss. She slept next to our bed until she was 2 1/2 months old (when she learned to roll over and couldn't use the bassinette any more), and the transition to crib wasn't very painful for any of us. But as I've said, the main point for us has been reducing stress during the day if we want to sleep easily at night.
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Oh, also, it seems to help to turn on the nightlight and close the door. We open it a crack after she's asleep to allow the cats access to their thoroughfare and so we can check on her if we need to. But cutting out all stimulation from outside her room really seems to help her get down faster.
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I'm not a parent but I have a much younger sister and I canrelate what my parents did for her (and the rest of my family).
We never slept in my parents' bed, except on very bad nights; never all the way through the night. We went straight from the hospital to a basket on the floor of my parents room, to the crib in my parents room, to the crib outside my parents room.
My sister could only fall asleep if wrapped, feeling "hugged". In the summer this was impossible so one of us would lay our hands on her leg and arm and she would fall asleep that way. My family would let her (us) cry, I suppose.
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Keep in mind that every child is different. What works for one child may not work for another. I took our second to bed for the first 4 months then moved her to a crib where she slept beautifully. Our third, I had in bed with me nearly a year before moving her to a crib. She seemed to need that extra time. Some might say that if you do that you'll never be able to move'em and they'll be in bed with you forever. Well, that is a risk--it could happen. We got lucky I guess.
One secret for me, if possible (when the baby is old enough to sleep through the night) put the baby to sleep far enough away from where you sleep so that it takes some "doing" for them to wake you up. If they really need you, they will wake you. If they don't really need you, they will eventually settle back down and you didn't have to lay in bed getting wound tighter and tighter listening to their mournful wailing.
We are on the "tough" side of parenting on many issues. And one of the "rules" in our house is that you sleep at night. We have always strongly encouraged our children to stay in their rooms. If they need us, they wail loud enough for us to hear us and *we* come to them. Sometimes I will even sleep in their bed for awhile till they are OK on their own. But them coming into our bedroom at night is a big no-no. We like our privacy. So far, our three have done really well with this structure.
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Zan, it was great! We had a wonderful time and would do it again in a heartbeat. We chose a Carnival cruise, since their camp program goes all the way down to age 2. Rainbow turns 3 this Friday, so the age thing was important. Most of the other cruise lines start their kids camps at age 3.
Camp Carnival was *great* for Rainy. She had a wonderful time with the other kids and actually *asked* to go when we were spending time together as a family. She's a pretty gregarious kid though, and really likes being with other children her age in a camp/daycare environment. There were other children her age on the cruise who didn't like Camp Carnival nearly as much.
We did find that shore excursions were not fun for Rainy, and thus not much fun for us. When we were got to Mazatlan (the last stop before heading back), we left her on board in Camp. That left everyone in the family to have a good time for the day, which we did. It worked out much better for all of us.
My 12 year old didn't like Camp Carnival so much. There weren't a lot of activities for kids that age, and as far as was concerned, what they did have was pretty lame. He was far happier just playing his Gameboy in the stateroom or playing in the arcade. He also liked playing in the pool with us, though the pools were chilly. Once we got used to being on the ship, we pretty much let him go where he wanted to unsupervised. He liked the freedom a lot. We took walkie-talkies with us, which was helpful.
Basically, we had a great time spending most of the time together (we always ate meals together) but also enjoyed being able to spend time alone, or just as a couple. It was a very good fit for us.
I'd like to try a Disney cruise sometime.
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I don't know, Ela... There was that episode of "Trading Spouses" with the hippy couple who had their 16 and 18 year old boys still in bed with them... Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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We always had very, very elaborate sleepy-time routines with Robert. Bathtime, half an hour of reading and quiet play in his room, then just a nightlight and singing, nursing a bit, saying goodnight to everything in the room without regards to personality, etc. And some nights I fell asleep next to his crib because I was holding his hand until he fell asleep.
But being awakened at 3am, even after 6 months, meant that I was not going back to sleep whether-or-not he was in bed with us.
I didn't mean to sound like I was knocking co-sleeping, and I certainly didn't mean to give the impression that we just threw him in his crib and watched TV with the volume up until he fell asleep. That didn't happen. I will err on the side of caution and not take offence at the implication, though. Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Bah. I so want to delete my post now. I wasn't trying to imply that *anyone* was doing *anything* wrong. My explanation about the ritual taking more time was just that - sometimes going through the bedtime ritual is a big pain in the butt and it's tempting just to skip it. My kids are 10 and 7, and we still have a bedtime ritual, and there are plenty of nights when I'd like to skip it, but I know it helps them settle down. It would be much easier just to say, "Go to bed" - know what I mean?
Olivetta, I'm glad you didn't take offense because none was meant. And besides, if we're going to throw a kid in the crib and turn something up - it should clearly be heavy metal and not the television.
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Bah. I so want to delete my post now. I wasn't trying to imply that *anyone* was doing *anything* wrong. My explanation about the ritual taking more time was just that - sometimes going through the bedtime ritual is a big pain in the butt and it's tempting just to skip it. My kids are 10 and 7, and we still have a bedtime ritual, and there are plenty of nights when I'd like to skip it, but I know it helps them settle down. It would be much easier just to say, "Go to bed" - know what I mean?
Olivetta, I'm glad you didn't take offense because none was meant. And besides, if we're going to throw a kid in the crib and turn something up - it should clearly be heavy metal and not the television.
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Space Opera, I just want to say that I think you are cool and I'd rather clean my shower with my tongue than hurt your feelings. MMmmkay? (my shower's kinda gross right now).
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Space Opera, I just want to say that I think you are cool and I'd rather clean my shower with my tongue than hurt your feelings. MMmmkay? (my shower's kinda gross right now).
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Thanks to all of you. We're going to try to start the crib sleeping tomorrow night. My hubby is off Fri-Sun so I won't feel bad if he doesn't get any sleep either. Plus tonight is just so bad anyway. She had her 6 month checkup today and the shots have given her a fever. She's just not comfy. She is however off the charts in height/weight. 19.4 lbs and 29 inches long! My big girl! Posts: 601 | Registered: Sep 2002
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I was listening in on the parenting class at school and there was a discussion about co-sleeping. All of the students in the class are Hispanic, and the sleeping with baby is the norm. However, the teacher was adamantly against children sleeping with parents.
She brought up safety issues (you might roll over on the baby), but other than that she just kept on saying that it isn't appropriate.
I'm curious. Why? What are the effects of babies sleeping with parents? I'm interested in the good and bad. Is this something that is defined differently among cultures?
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I am sure there are cultural differences. When my son slept with us, it was like sleeping with a stuffed animal. My daughter needed the crib from the get-go. It was not that we decided to have him sleep with us, it just happened, and I don't even think it was much past the first month or two, now that I think of it, though he would often sleep with us, especially when we travelled. Part of it was that it was my second baby, and he was a good nurser. I could nurse him and fall asleep, and sleep was good.
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Coccinelle, I think that is definitely a cultural thing.
And a load of bunk! There is nothing inherently wrong or particularly dangerous about co-sleeping (assuming the parent is not intoxicated or under the effect of drugs -- legal or otherwise). I think that teacher is way off base, and has no business imposing her cultural paradigms on those moms.
Personally, co-sleeping never worked for me past two/three months. But I have plenty of friends for whom it's worked really well.
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There are some cases where parents have rolled on their child and suffocated them. One happened about a month ago here.
But then, there are cases where children have managed to suffocate in their cribs (not SIDS, rather with the blankets and stuff).
So I guess, you work out what makes you as a parent and your child the happiest and go from there. If you have a fear of rolling on your kid, maybe co-sleeping isn't for you.
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CT has links to actual studies. But IIRC, almost every incident where a parent has "overlain" a child, drugs or alcohol were involved. They knock you out so completely that the normal stimulus-response to bumping into the baby cannot function.
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OK, that's it. It is time for me to go to bed. The Rainbow show thread is making me think strange things about Barney, and now this thread has me thinking, I can't help it, of Charlie Bucket's grandparents.
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This is interesting, thank you for your responses. I can definately see how alcohol, baby, bed, and parent can make for a lethal mix and now that you mention it, I think I recall reading that in a text for one of my classes.
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The fever broke now. We're both just totally exhausted! Long night. She was very hard to console and wouldn't eat. The last 2 times she got shots nothing happened. Why did she have this reaction this time? This sucks! We we're going to try putting her in the crib tonight but now I wonder will she be to tired from last night? Should we wait until she feels more "normal"? Oppinions?
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Did she get different vaccinations this time? Some are more likely (MMR, DPT, especially the older version which has now been phased out) to cause reactions than others.
If she's really cranky and irritable, I'd wait. If only slightly out of sorts, it's probably fine to start tonight.
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Same shots. We'll see how she is when Daddy gets home. Everything's better when Daddy's here. I'm just the Mommy. Posts: 601 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Coccinelle, one thing that has been shown in studies about co-sleeping is that the baby sleeps better and longer-- and the mom sleeps worse, but more. So if you're getting absolutely no sleep with baby in a crib, it can be worth the light sleep and frequent waking to actually get some, while if you are a light sleeper to begin with and the baby sleeps well no matter where you put him, it may be worth it to put baby in his crib. If a parent starts to roll over onto baby, baby flails, and parents, even in their sleep, ususally respond to that and roll back over. I remember Jeff falling asleep with Emma on his chest (also asleep) on the couch when she was about 2 months. I picked her up to put her in her bed, and as I did, he tightened his grip-- completely asleep-- so she wouldn't fall. I had to coax him to let go so she could go to her bassinette. There are instinctive responses in parents to protect baby. The drugs or alcohol dull or nullify these instincts, and that's where we get problems. (Some sleep disorders can also create problems.) I agree that that professor was way out of line; for the first time, even the AAP is beginning to change its stance on co-sleeping.
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dawnmaria, Ems had bad reactions to all her shots. Did you give Tylenol before? We got to the point where we had to give Tylenol alternated with Advil every 4 hours and baths every 20 minutes just to keep her temp. in the "not going to the emergency room" area several times. I'm sorry. (((hugs)))
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The doctor warned us to give Ryan Tylenol or Motrin right before we brought him in for his shots.
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I wasn't trying to imply that *anyone* was doing *anything* wrong. My explanation about the ritual taking more time was just that - sometimes going through the bedtime ritual is a big pain in the butt and it's tempting just to skip it. My kids are 10 and 7, and we still have a bedtime ritual, and there are plenty of nights when I'd like to skip it, but I know it helps them settle down. It would be much easier just to say, "Go to bed" - know what I mean? ![[Group Hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
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No feelings hurt here. I just get frustrated by my own inability to explain what I mean without a 5-paragraph-long post. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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There is nothing inherently wrong or particularly dangerous about co-sleeping (assuming the parent is not intoxicated or under the effect of drugs -- legal or otherwise). I think that teacher is way off base, and has no business imposing her cultural paradigms on those moms.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
I'm just the Mommy. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Did you give Tylenol before? We got to the point where we had to give Tylenol alternated with Advil every 4 hours and baths every 20 minutes just to keep her temp. in the "not going to the emergency room" area several times. I'm sorry. 
