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Screaming "NOOOO!" is a bit corny, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as others seem to. I do prefer the suggestion of Vader saying "good" though. It's the perfect way to show that Anakin is really gone. Anakin loved Padme more than anything. Saying "good" would give the audience a nice little shock and make us think, "wow... This guy has snapped. He (thinks) he killed his pregnant wife and he doesn't even care! Now THAT'S evil." But on the other hand, I don't think that that's what Lucas was going for. I think at the end of RotS he was trying to set-up Anakin's redemption. His first words as Vader were asking about Padme and then expressing grief (albeit it, in a corny fashion). This is not the scary Vader we see in ANH and ESB. We're being reminded that it really is Anakin in there. The same one who we've seen throughout TPM and AotC. Even Padme's last words foreshadow his redemption. So I think the idea was for us to be reminded of Anakin's humanity rather than his evil.
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Just before Padme died she tells Obi Wan that there was still good in Anakin. So the "Nooooo" was not a bad thing.
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I'm sorry, but the "nooooo" made me laugh out loud. The idea that Vader simply asks, "Padme?" And the Emperor says "She is dead." And then Vader uses the Force to willfully destroy the room, crush droids, destroy the table and equipment that created him...all to the delight and amazement of his mentor....THAT would have been enough. Vader will, of course, blame Obi-Wan (not himself), fueling his hatred.
That's the biggest reason why the prequels have little to no emotional resonance. Lucas tells instead of shows. For whatever reason that he forgot after writing Episode IV, he can't seem to remember that the audience will GET it and invest their imaginations into the movie. Look at these posts––everybody's reading into everything anyway.
Vader's first duel with Luke is the best overall interchange between them; and the dialogue is minimal. We GET the conflict.
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quote:Also, when the war was over Palpatine had Anakin shut down the droid army, the Empire does not use droids as mainline troops in the original trilogy
One reason I'm thinking that the Emperor moves away from droids is that people can be controlled by the Force, but droids can be controlled by any hacker. It gives him a hige advantage coordinating the troops and ensuring loyalty.
Plus, I love the idea Zahn had in "The Last Command" that clones would be ideal for control by a dark jedi, because once you reprogram one of their brains, you can reprogram all their brains.
quote: On a nonstoryline note, was it just me or did it take a few seconds for Palpy to stab the first jedi that tried to arrest him? I mean, come on! You're a jedi that can hit lightning fast lasers with an inch-and-a-half blade. Why can't you block a lightsaber stab that comes at you at about 15 miles an hour?
Because Palpatine was using the Force to aide him in battle too...make him faster, disrupt the Jedi's powers, and slow them down.
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quote:Vader will, of course, blame Obi-Wan (not himself), fueling his hatred.
I actually like how Lucas had Palpatine tell Vader that he killed Padme, cause now he hates himself. How much more hateful can you get than hating yourself AND everyone else?
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Ok, I just want to write down Sidious's amazing plan to gain control.
In the beginning, he was a sith apprentice to a great master who could use the dark side to control life by rearranging the midichlorians. Like his master, he desired power and control. His master was not the kind to give it up, and make him a master himself, but he still trained him. Sidious killed his master, for control and power.
In Episode I he is manipulating a trade federation into blockading and attacking Naboo, causing turmoil in the senate.
The key in Episode One was Amidala and Anakin. After the trade federation moved in on Naboo, she flee's with the Jedi to tatooine, and eventually to Correscaunt where under Palpatines influence, she called for a vote of 'No Confidence' to kick the current Chancellor out. With the sympathy due to the Naboo situation, he easily gains Chancellor status.
My guess is that he did in fact create Anakin, and that Palpatine knew Viceroy would fail. Anakin caused the victory over Viceroy, causing him to slink away.
Palpatine then starts the next step of his plan. The secret creation of the clone army. The clone army is why I suggest that Palpatine knew Viceroy would fail, and if he knew that, he must have known of Skywalkers involvement.
In the meantime, he gains a new apprentice, Darth Tyrannus, or Count Dooku. He gets him to go around gaining support of the Trade Federation, convincing them that the republic was not in the best financial interests of any sort of trade. One by one the republic systems seperate from the republic.
Years past, and the Seperatists begin to show themselves. Sidious then plans two false attempts on Padme's life, causing Anakin to get closer to her. It then sends Obi-Wan into a hunt for those responsible, which leads him to Geonosis, and discovering a large droid army under the seperatists.
Sidious then tells the senate that in light of the droid army and seperatists forces, and the attack on Padme's life, he is implimenting higher executive powers on himself, and enforcing the clone army under the Jedi Knights to help defeat the droids.
At the same time, he befriends Anakin, and encourages his pride. He places him closer to Padme, causing an influx of emotions, and attachments, and in return, a fear. Being away from the Jedi Council, and Obi-Wan, Anakin is then free to go to Tatooine to kill the Sandpeople. I believe this too was seen and planned by Sidious.
So now at the end of Episode II we have a guilt ridden Anakin, who now has a strong fear of loss due to death. We have a Supreme Chancellor and a Clone Army completely loyal to Palpatine in place. We have seperatists forces in full swing against the Republic. So why doesn't Palpatine attack the Jedi now? Because, the Jedi need to try to kill him, and obviously, Tyrannus can not stand up to Yoda or Windu.
So then Palpatine manipulates General Grievous by capturing himself, and having Anakin kill Dooku, getting more of a taste of the dark side and more guilt.
With the power of Supreme Chancellor, he appoints Anakin a member of the Jedi Council. With the Jedi Coucil distrusting of Palpatine, they don't grant Anakin the rank of master.
Now this is where the Jedi screw things up.
They ask Anakin to spy on Sidious. Bad move number one. Anakin is then closer to Palpatine who obviously knows what the Jedi are up to and how he feels. He tells Anakin that Grevious has been found, and tells him that he wants him to go and get him. Anakin tells the Jedi that Palp wants him to go. The Council, thinking that that's what he wants, instead denies Anakin this, and sends Obi-Wan, the only one who could really keep Anakin under control and handle him against Sidious's influence.
He then strategically reveals himself to Anakin. He tells him that the Sith and the Jedi are no different. Anakin then tells Windu.
Windu and Sidious face off. I strongly believe Sidious could have beat him, but acted like he was being defeated as soon as Anakin was nearby.
So then, being inticed by stopping death, he tries to convince Windu to spare him and make him stand trial. When Windu pushed to kill him, Anakin then thinks "you don't kill a defenseless person, it's not the Jedi way" and slips, and cuts his hand off, giving Palpatine the advantage to kill him.
Anakin then knowing he can no longer be a Jedi, pledges himself to the one man who constantly boosted his pride, and was his "friend", Palpatine.
Palpatine, using the attack by Windu, convinces the senate that the Jedi are to be extinguished. He tells Anakin that all the Jedi would eventually go against the republic, and that he should go to the temple and kill them. As an added bonus, Sidious tells him that it will increase his dark side, which would allow him to prevent the death of Padme.
He then tells Anakin to go to Mustafar, and while Anakin is away, he conveniently tells the Senate that instead of a democracy, it is going to be an Empire, for safety reasons of course.
posted
I have lots of comments, but it's really late. Just one I needed to share.
It felt painfully obvious walking out of the movie that George Lucas has absolutely no familiarity with the female half of the species, whatsoever. Relationships between middle-schoolers have more depth and chemistry.
I mean "I love you" "No, I love you more"? I was waiting for Padme to ask him if he'd every marry anyone else if she died. Or if it'd been some other princess he'd rescued, if he'd have fallen in love with her.
Padme's character was weak from the get go, and the dialogue written for her was just painful. And how many other female characters have there been in the ENTIRE series? You can count the ones with speaking parts on one hand - two at most.
That said, he should have gotten some help with the script, like he got from Lawrence Kasdan on ESB and Raiders of the Lost Ark.
While I enjoyed the story, the dialogue just made parts of it excruciating to watch.
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It helped that Spielberg directed Raiders and he would never have made a film with dialogue as horrible as the Star Wars prequels. Plus, he has some skill with directing actors.
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On the whole "Nooooooo!" scream at which people are laughing, I'd like to point out that this was clearly homage to Empire, where Luke screams "Nooooo!" after he learns Vader's his daddy.
Lucas was just, in the way his mind clicks, reusing a method that worked for him before. It's what he likes to do with his movies, reuse and reuse. You know, every new SW movie must have 1) A new villain 2) A chase scene 3) A lightsaber duel... etc.
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I wonder if the remnants of the Separatists teamed up with the Republic rebels when Palpy took over.
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He must have had the Clone Army in place long before he started getting the ball rolling with the Trade Federation at Naboo. I wouldn't think they could have grown the army so large so fast.
At the very least, he must have had the ball rolling. I don't understand how he paid for it all though.
Back to the "noo!" thing. I like the idea of him falling to his knees and crushing everything in the room. I still think that the "good" line is way out of character. Everyone would have walked away even more confused about his character. Clearly he does have some good left in him, evidenced by his actions with Luke and what Padme had to say about him. And there is no clear Vader/Anakin line, because he killed all the Sand People at that village.
For him to say "good" is to erase even the last shred of credibility (if there ever was one) that him and Padme were a real couple in love. It would make everything he did over the course of the movie stupid and pointless if their love was really that fragile.
For the sake of the argument though, the only reason I see the "good" line working, is based off of one line Anakin had, when he said that he couldn't live without her. For him to be happy that she is dead means that he too is dead. But then you get into some sort of split personality Anakin/Vader thing that I don't think makes any sense. His entire fall to the dark side takes place as a result of his arrogance and his love for Padme. Why negate that entire fall by having him say something so out of character?
Edit to add: By changing something like that, you aren't just trying to clean up some of Lucas' sloppier silly writing, you are changing the storyline and the character.
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Here's a random question: Who is (okay, was) Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas? Was that Dooku's Jedi name? This just hit me and I'm not really sure why...
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Yeah... it gets very, very hard to analyze what Palpatine intended and what was just coincidence. I didn't get any of the "Palpatine created Anakin" vibe from the movies. Where are we getting that from? I just assumed it was a very blatant (and somewhat heavy handed) Christ reference.
And I think it would've been better if Vader had just fallen to his knees and screamed wildly. You can never underestimate a good scream.
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quote:One reason I'm thinking that the Emperor moves away from droids is that people can be controlled by the Force, but droids can be controlled by any hacker. It gives him a hige advantage coordinating the troops and ensuring loyalty.
There's that, and the fact that they're simply better soldiers than droids are. In the Star Wars Universe, AI isn't better than biological sentience, yet.
quote:I actually like how Lucas had Palpatine tell Vader that he killed Padme, cause now he hates himself. How much more hateful can you get than hating yourself AND everyone else?
I agree. After Padme died, Darth Vader had essentially nothing he intended to get by turning to the Dark Side. Sure, he got 'peace and stability' in the galaxy, but those were far from primary concerns to him. And yet he kept himself shackled to the Emperor for what, nearly twenty years? I think at some point he would certainly have taken that first redeeming step, or else murdered Palpatine outright, long before then, if he wasn't kept down by carefully-cultivated self-hatred.
quote:In the beginning, he was a sith apprentice to a great master who could use the dark side to control life by rearranging the midichlorians. Like his master, he desired power and control. His master was not the kind to give it up, and make him a master himself, but he still trained him. Sidious killed his master, for control and power.
This is presumed, and certainly Palpatine permits Anakin to have this impression of history...but we aren't really sure, either.
quote:My guess is that he did in fact create Anakin, and that Palpatine knew Viceroy would fail. Anakin caused the victory over Viceroy, causing him to slink away.
I disagree, because how could Palpatine have controlled where the fleeing Naboo vessel would have gone? And to which junk dealer they would turn? Etc., etc., it's just too much random chance and tiny sabotages and manipulation. I think it more likely that Palpatine was just extremely fortunate in that he decided to make his move at the same time Anakin Skywalker was steaming.
quote:Palpatine then starts the next step of his plan. The secret creation of the clone army. The clone army is why I suggest that Palpatine knew Viceroy would fail, and if he knew that, he must have known of Skywalkers involvement.
He created the Grand Army of the Republic because he knew he wasn't going to stick with the Seperatists from the very beginning. He created them to destroy the enemy he created-the enemy he intended to have blamed for most of the troubles in the galaxy.
quote:At the same time, he befriends Anakin, and encourages his pride. He places him closer to Padme, causing an influx of emotions, and attachments, and in return, a fear. Being away from the Jedi Council, and Obi-Wan, Anakin is then free to go to Tatooine to kill the Sandpeople. I believe this too was seen and planned by Sidious.
Personally, I believe all Palpatine did was implant the seeds of hatred, fury, and revenge in Anakin that permitted him to take this drastic step. After all, in Ep. III, he says things like, "It's only natural. He cut off your hand, you wanted revenge." Imagine how often and in how many ways he's been saying such things to Anakin over the years they've been talking.
quote:Windu and Sidious face off. I strongly believe Sidious could have beat him, but acted like he was being defeated as soon as Anakin was nearby.
You're exactly right about this. First of all, he could've Force-pulled his lightsaber from the fall. Second, there were three other lightsabers close at hand. Third, no Dark Lord of the Sith ever required a lightsaber to fight effectively.
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You're right, Lyr, that he had the Clone Army brewing long before. This is why I believe he never intended them (the Seperatists) to succeed at all.
quote:At the very least, he must have had the ball rolling. I don't understand how he paid for it all though.
Well, assuming there wasn't very carefully-managed embezzlement and graft during his time as a Senator and Chancellor...the Sith have been around for a long, long time, remember. And for a thousand years or so, there have never been more than two of them at a time. That sort of descendance makes it remarkably easy to pass on the wealth, I'd imagine.
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quote:Here's a random question: Who is (okay, was) Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas? Was that Dooku's Jedi name? This just hit me and I'm not really sure why...
No... I got the impression that Sifo-Dyas was another Jedi that Palaptine had used as a tool, and then killed off after he accomplished his purposes. (We know that Sifo-Dyas was killed ten years before AOTC - which was right about the time that TPM took place).
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That's one of the bigger plot holes, actually; how did Palpatine arrange to delete the Jedi archives? Who was Master Sifo-Dyas, and why is the name so similar to Darth Sidious? The implication here is that Palpatine himself posed as -- or was originally -- a Jedi, but that's not part of his own autobiography.
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And I figured, honestly, that Anakin Skywalker was just a happy coincidence for Palpatine. None of his plans rely on Anakin, and he could just as easily have found some other dark apprentice, had he wanted; all his apprentices function as fall guys and meat shields, anyway. It was just a lucky break -- which he exploited -- that Anakin proved useful and amenable to persuasion.
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The idea comes from the speech Palpatine gives where he talks about his Sith teacher, who knew how to maniuplate midichlorians and "create life".
In TPM, we're told that Anakin seems to have been "conceived by Midichlorians! The Chosen One!"...discovered by Jedi who _only_ encountered him because they were being manipulated by Lord Sidious' shadow play.
Ian McDarmid himself said in an interview in "Entertainment Weekly" that in his mind that speech he gave was a hint as to the truth behind Shmi's "miraculous" pregancy.
If one accepts the Emperor's claim that he can see likely futures, he probably had been working for some very long term goals...thus the connection some are seeing.
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Palpatine has a thing for getting new apprentices to kill his old ones. He offered the job to Luke if he killed Vader, after all.
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quote: In TPM, we're told that Anakin seems to have been "conceived by Midichlorians! The Chosen One!"...discovered by Jedi who _only_ encountered him because they were being manipulated by Lord Sidious' shadow play.
But what kind of bizarre shadow play would involve his knowing that their ship would be damaged in such a way that it would have to land on Tatooine and require a part that only one junk dealer on the entire planet might happen to have?
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For Anakin's turn to the dark side, separating him from Obi-Wan long enough was important, I think. It seemed that Obi-Wan was the only one who could talk sense into that kid, and even him, just barely.
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"It seemed that Obi-Wan was the only one who could talk sense into that kid, and even him, just barely."
Which is odd, because Obi-Wan as presented in the films is clumsy, incompetent, stodgy, patronizing, and basically unfriendly. I wouldn't particularly want him as a master, either, even if I weren't whining about being the most powerful Jedi in the universe.
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: [QUOTE]But what kind of bizarre shadow play would involve his knowing that their ship would be damaged in such a way that it would have to land on Tatooine and require a part that only one junk dealer on the entire planet might happen to have?
One in which the guy has the power to see possible futures? That's what the Emperor's claimed in the films, anyway.
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"One in which the guy has the power to see possible futures?"
But the Emperor clearly couldn't foresee this particular future, as he was upset and unhappy with Padme's escape. He turned it to his advantage later, but the interference of Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon did surprise and irritate him; I don't get the impression that he intended for Darth Maul to die, nor for Naboo to successfully repel the Federation's attack.
I prefer to think of Palpatine, like Lucas, as a master of exploiting the happy accident. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:I wonder if the remnants of the Separatists teamed up with the Republic rebels when Palpy took over.
Apparently there was a plot point that had to be cut out of Revenge of the Sith in which Padme organizes the Rebel Alliance before she dies, but Lucas had to cut it for time.
I also think Palpatine had a lot to do in orchestrating events surrounding Anakin. For instance, I'm pretty positive that he had Anakin's mother kidnapped by the Sand People specifically to plant the seeds of the dark side in him.
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As a matter of fact, Tom, Count Dooku was a Jedi of great repute. I think it's most likely that he was the one who altered the Jedi Archives.
The Emperor is a master manipulator, but that doesn't mean he's manipulating every little thing to his own ends. For instance, I hardly think he manipulated the Seperatist cruiser's crash-landing onto Coruscant, or the successful Rebel destruction of the first Death Star, etc. etc.
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Lots of interesting points and observations. Here are some things I wanted to clarify/comment on:
quote:I wanted an explanation on why Yoda was stuck on Degaba.
Yoda was stuck on Dagobah because the dark side cave masked his presence, which kept Palpatine and Vader from sensing him. The dark and the light cancelled each other out. This is discussed in one of the novels following RoJ. If he had gone somewhere else, he'd have been exterminated like all the rest.
quote:Is the Death Star being constructed in Episode III the same one that was used in Episode IV? Did it take the Empire 18 years to build the Death Star?
That's exactly what I asked immediately upon exiting the movie. If it is the same one (and it only makes sense that it is) then how is it possible to construct one in 18 years, then the second in a year or two? No manufacturing process improves that much. Even to cut the time in half would be an accomplishment of ridiculous proportions.
I agree with everyone that the dialogue was uncomfortable, at best. But I loved it. A lot of loose strings were tied up, though some were missed. In the beginning, when Obi Wan jumped out of his ship while it was still sliding across floor and started whooping *&$ was freakin sweet.
I thought Padme and Anakin seemed more in love in Ep. II than in this one.
Padme was older than Anakin by like 5 to 8 years or so, and yet she looks younger than him? Miscasting (and I love Natalie Portman - I'd have her baby).
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Well, I'm not sure if this is part of the EU that Lucas threw out the window or not (it was in one of the Timothy Zahn SW books), but it's told there that the cave wasn't particularly Dark until a Dark Jedi crashed there after going on a horrible rampage, and Yoda dispatched him there (this Jedi was not in the employ of the Emperor, who exterimated all of them he found except for Anakin).
Yoda is sufficiently powerful, I expect, that so long as he is trying to hide in the Force, he can evade the Emperor's protection, particularly on a planet so unremarkable, remote, and absolutely teeming with life as Dagobah. As for Tatooine, it is a planet rife with Jedi 'signature', from Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Darth Maul, Anakin, Anakin-as-murderer, and other Jedi that came from there.
And as for the Death Star I, bear in mind that in ANH, it was fully complete, staffed, completely operational, etc., and it was the very first time such a thing was built. The Death Star II, however, when we see it is only skeletal, with an understaffed construction crew, it's specifically stated it's not finshed yet, and the only thing that works on it is the main laser.
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quote:Count Dooku was a Jedi of great repute. I think it's most likely that he was the one who altered the Jedi Archives.
He was the one who trained Qui-Gon, and was a Padawan under Yoda, but I think he was out of the Order far too long to have done that.
I think that the unseen-and-killed-off Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas, seeing as he's the one who actually WENT to Kamino, is the one who tweaked the archives.
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Also, I believe DSII falls into the "Why build 1 when you can build 2 for twice as much?" theory of construction.
Perhaps they didn't start building DSII until a few years into the first DS project, hence the few years of lag between the completions?
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It's possible, Taalcon. Then again, just because he wasn't 'active' doesn't mean they wouldn't let him into the Temple to do research and whatnot. Bear in mind that Count Dooku was very well respected and revered by the Jedi...up until he signed on openly with the Seperatists.
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I loved it. There were truly great moments. Especially the way they hinted at Anakins atrocities. Much more effective. And Palpatines manipulations were brilliant.
Palpatine seemed to be both a manipulator and exploiter of weakness and existing conditions.
In many ways, the Sith were partly right about the Jedi. They were so ossified in their way of thinking. In fact, I would lay the entire failure of the Jedi order at the feet of Mace and Yoda. Mace, being the more myopic of the two. His refusal to accept Dooku's possible evil until standing on Geonosis was boneheaded. His comments about Anakin in III, especially not trusting him AFTER Anakin had ultimately done the right thing by telling them Palpatine was a Sith was supremely stupid. "If you're right, then I'll trust you." Geez, what does this guy have to do. Yeah, he's got problems, but Mace never once reached out to him. And when Anakin finally sides with the Jedi against someone that, to his mind, has always believed in him and sided with him, should have clinched it. Instead, Mace spits it back in his face.
The inability for any of the Jedi to conceive of someone altering the records is ridiculous. And Yoda, the 800 year old leader of the Jedi was the soul of the Jedi. The same Jedi who refused to let Qui Gon on the council- the same Qui Gon who turned out to be right about everything (except that the Jedi botched what he had with Anakin).
Thankfully, Yoda was not afraid to learn from Qui Gon. And Obi Wan, while appearing to follow the old Jedi ways, must have, at least unconciously, been using the new Jedi ways his lifelong master had taught him. Which would explain how, in the end, he defeated Anakin.
I would have like to see more defeat in Yoda and the end. He was too upbeat. I would have like to see him still be a leader, but one questioning his own decisions, since, in many ways, the failure of the Jedi and their myopic ivory tower syndrome was his own. A little more humility rather than "New teachings I have for you." An acknowledgment or something from the Master.
The Death of Padme bothers me. I truly hope that the scene about Padme starting the rebellion is left in the extended edition (if it was filmed. If not, GL would do well to get on the ball and film it, since this could be where he repairs this glaring contradiction. Most others can be explained away or glossed over. But not this.) Of course, it's possible that Padme did not die, the death was staged and she lived out the rest of her short sad life on Alderaan. Even if she was with Leia for only a month, it would be better than someone trying to claim Leia remembered her birth (and why her and not Luke?).
What did Palpatine mean when he said that only one Sith had ever learned how to defeat death? Was he referring to himself? How old is Palpatine? I definitely believe his was Darth Pelagus's apprentice and that he was the one who created Anakin.
Which makes for an interesting theme. A father kills his father to save his son (though DV had no idea.) Sounds like a archtypal theme GL might have been going for.
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quote: What did Palpatine mean when he said that only one Sith had ever learned how to defeat death? Was he referring to himself?
Actually he never said it was a sith that had learned to defeat death. The line went something like, "There has only been one who has learned to defeat death but together we can unlock that secret" The second time I saw the movie I immedaitely though of Qui-gon. He learned how to return in the force after death and this is what Yoda asked Obi-Wan to learn while in excile.
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Think about everything else he seemingly knew about what the Jedi were doing. I don't think it is too much to extent this to him knowing about Qui Gon as well. I fact I like the thought because it just ads to how much Palpatine just strung anakin along to get his way. He knew he didn't have the knowledge to save a life but he knew it was possible and so he used his skill for telling half truths to feed anakin what he needed to hear to allow his emotions to control him and guide him to the dark side.
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Palpatine doesn't know about Qui Gon. Sounded to me like Palpatine's former master figured out how to save others from death, but not himself. Qui Gon actually figured out the whole after life thing which of course you can't get on the dark side.
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quote:Perhaps they didn't start building DSII until a few years into the first DS project, hence the few years of lag between the completions?
But why build a second when they aren't sure how the first works? Plus, the death star had a hyperdrive, and they thought it was impregnable, so what need did they have of a second? I think it's just a continuity error, not something that can be easily explained.
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I don't know. The way Palpy said the line was more along the "cheat death" than "save a life". I'm refering to the scene immediately after Anakin pledges himslef to Palpatine, after Windu dies. That is why I felt like he could have been refering to Qui-Gon.
This, of course, is one of the greta things about film. Often times they are open to numerous translations and just as often no one translation is ever verified as correct. It really isn't worth arguing about but it is the idea that poped into my head and probably the one that will stay unless GL himself says otherwise. I just thought I'd share the thought with others and if it seems interesting in the Star Wars world as you see it then cool, otherwise go with what fits into your notion of the uiniverse and that is cool too.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
"they thought it was impregnable, so what need did they have of a second?"
Because they were some evil SOB's and if blowing up one planet at a time will inflict fear and obediance think what haveing two will do.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Come on folks, at WORST its an unexplained part of the continuity. Not even close to being an "error".
So it took 18 years to build the first death star and 2 years for the second one. Are we so unimaginitive that we cannot reason this out without it being spelled out for us?
The first death star was being built right after a galactic war. Perhaps resources were being spent elsewhere?
It was also being built with the resources of barely half the republic's worlds. The rest of them had broken away, and were just beginning to rejoin the republic.
The first death star was built under the republic, which had a still-powerful senate. Remember that Palpatine disolved the senate after the first death star was built. It would have been much easier to build the second death star without any red tape.
They had already built the first one. Of course its easier when you have the knowledge of the first experience.
The facilities/equipment to make something of the death star's scale would have had to have been built from scratch during the building process. Those facilities could easily have been still around when they went to make the next one.
And on and on and on and on...
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posted
Maybe the one in ANH was actually the second Death Star. The one at the end of RotS was the first, but accidentally exploded after a space pigeon flew down the barrel during a targeting control test.
posted
I ageree that there has to be a lot of "overlooking" when watching these films. So what, accept it and enjoy it and move on. Or don't except it, annalyze it to death and lose most of the enjoyment of the films.
Maybe someone can explian this to me. One of the whole continuity prolems I had and then immediately dismissed was how quickly Palpatine arrived at the "lake of burning hell fire" planet. He's on Courosaunt, says "uh, oh. Anakins in trouble. get my ship ready." Anakin loses his legs and arm then turns into a marshmallow left ovwer the fire too long. Obi-Wan leaves with Padme and the droids. Palpatine arrives, gets the medicval cart and saves him. It all seemed to happen a bit too quickly. At least quicker than I would expect. I know the ships move fast and all but... do they really move fast enough to save a persons life who had been extremly amputated and burned all up?
But like I said. My brain regisered all these thought and then dismissed them because it isn't important enough to worry about in the middle of an awesome sequence like all that was.
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posted
Of course it would be easier the second time around. You could probably build it in 10 years, instead of 20, because of all the reasons stated by Xavier and others.
Does anyone else feel like they're in Clerks?
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote: One of the whole continuity prolems I had and then immediately dismissed was how quickly Palpatine arrived at the "lake of burning hell fire" planet. He's on Courosaunt, says "uh, oh. Anakins in trouble. get my ship ready."
He was on 24 time. Didn't you see the black blazer in the background?
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Oh, well then that would also explain why their has never been a single example of computer crashing.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote: One of the whole continuity prolems I had and then immediately dismissed was how quickly Palpatine arrived at the "lake of burning hell fire" planet. He's on Courosaunt, says "uh, oh. Anakins in trouble. get my ship ready." Anakin loses his legs and arm then turns into a marshmallow left ovwer the fire too long. Obi-Wan leaves with Padme and the droids. Palpatine arrives, gets the medicval cart and saves him. It all seemed to happen a bit too quickly. At least quicker than I would expect. I know the ships move fast and all but... do they really move fast enough to save a persons life who had been extremly amputated and burned all up?
You forget that they were showing us the Yoda/Palpatine fight at the same time as the Anakin/Obi-Wan fight. Since Obi-Wan had to fly to the lava planet in the first place, those fights weren't actually happening at the same time.
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