posted
Good morning, all. I need help with some things I've been thinking about. As has been mentioned, my brother was killed last week in a car accident. He was a great brother, and a good friend, and he will be missed terribly.
We left out a crucial part of the story. Casey struggled for the greater part of his life with drug use and mental illness, likely paranoid schizophrenia. He had hallucinations and heard voices from about age 9. From about age 13, he started acting out in various ways--fights at school, problems with anger management, drinking, drug use. In his late teens, he began to act out violently against family members. Eventually, he was diagnosed with schizophrenia, and prescribed a battery of medications for diminishing his symptoms. He would go on and off his meds periodically. For the most part though, he refused treatment and disappeared from our lives. When he died, Casey was homeless. His family had not seen or heard from him in about a year.
I can't get over his inability to ask for help. As a child, he didn't tell anyone about either his compulsion to drink or his hallucinations. Even he didn't realize how vulnerable he was. Casey could scale a cliff or paddle a kayak through a Class 6 rapid without breaking a sweat, but he was incapable of caring for himself on a very basic level. Shouldn't children feel okay about telling thier parents anything? How do we give children the tools to talk about thier mental health?
I read recently that schizophrenia affects 2.2 million people in the US--that's more than alzheimer's, insulin dependent diabetes, muscular dystrophy and multiple schlerosis combined. It seems to me that our culture is one of compulsive self-reliance. We can't talk about the idea of being crazy--it's too risky. Mental illnesses are real diseases that destroy families and individuals. Why don't we know more about it? Why can't we talk about it?
I am wondering, are there educational materials for children who may need to talk about experiencing symptoms of mental illness?
If anyone had any ideas, or experience or information with this issue, I would appreciate it.
posted
I also wish I had some words of wisdom concerning this disease and the ramifications of our society's compulsion to hide mental illness. Is it possible that denial is a symptom of schizophrenia?
(((Eve and Family)))
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Mar 2004
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But really, the bottom line is that the truly diseased brain/mind (and I will just assume that we all believe in the physical, brain, basis for the mind) is not to be expected to act in a logical manner, or one that is typical for its age and assumed level of maturation. It will not necessarily do things that are consistent with self-interest or eventual healing.
There's a mix of reasons.
Some of them are bound to cause "guilty feelings" in the family, even though that's not the truth of the situation at all. So, I'm not going to venture into that area.
My suggestion is to become educated on the specific disorders that Casey suffered from, and to learn about attitudes towards mental illness in general.
Two reasons: 1) Some of this stuff does appear to run along genetic lines. You'll want to be able to "spot each other" in the family and get early diagnosis and treatment for anyone who may be showing signs.
2) You can help others in the family and your community understand that this is not a curse, a family scandal, or a thing best ignored. The brain is like any other organ. Mostly it works just fine, it is even self-repairing/correcting for many of the problems it is prone to suffer. But ultimately, there are just times when it doesn't quite work right. And the earlier that starts to happen, the harder it is to even define "normal" for that person.
And, as I said earlier, sometimes no matter what we try, there is nothing that will help a person (at least not very much) who is suffering from a severe mental illness. We're getting better, but there are still people who we can't help and who are thus relegated to having a very tough time in life.
I am truly sorry for your loss and for the difficult life that Casey lived. I hope you and your family come to grips with the truths to be learned and can continue to celebrate the time you had with your brother.
I think those guys might be a pretty good help to you. I've seen the work they'd done with my clients when I worked in mental health, and they're fantastic. A lot of resources there.
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posted
I have a few schizophrenic relatives in my family, along with various people with depression and bipolar disorder. I have also historically been depressed.
When I was down, I couldn't ask for help. I thought no one cared, I thought it didn't matter, I thought nothing could help, I thought it wouldn't make a difference anyway. When I was fine, I had no problem getting help. Silly, right?
The other people in my family have acted fairly similar. When they're down, or in the middle of an episode, whatever, they don't ask for help. When they're better, they know they needed help.
I don't know if this is characteristic of most who are mentally ill, I only know that it's characteristic of those in our family.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Mackillian & Bob--Thanks for the links, you guys, they should be really helpful.
As for the isolation/denial issues raised by quiscribis & punwit--I think the culture of our family was rife with the "guilt" issues Bob alluded to. There was this underlying assumption we operated on that nothing could be wrong with us that would prevent us from achieving our goals. Sick days were for wienies. We worked through everything. If we couldn't properly treat the common cold, why would we even acknowledge a mental illness? The worst thing someone could be to us was a hypochondriac. The sad thing is, this attitude persisted even after it became abundantly clear that he very much needed help--it was just "in his head." Actually addressing the problem just made his problems, and our problems "real." I don't know if this makes sense.
Thanks again, everybody. I am continuing to sort this out.
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Eve, it does make sense. We had huge issues with guilt and shame and not measuring up in our family, and on the one hand, being sick (whether real or imagined - it didn't matter as long as you could conjure up the appropriately obvious symptoms) was a perfectly legitimate reason to not have to do (fill in the blank), admitting any kind of mental infirmity was something that was just never done. Can't admit to being weak! No! Can't admit to being emotional! No! Being upset is no excuse! Get over it already! Quite being a whiner!
But because being physically ill was okay, I think it taught me to manifest my emotional problems in a physical way since it was the only legitimate outlet. Or, at least, as much as my body could manage to do it.
Yeah, being a hypochondriac is really low, but if you actually have green mucus coming out of your nose, or you're vomiting so much you've got swollen bloodshoot eyes, or you pass out, then yeah, you're sick enough and then it's okay.
What a screwed up perspective.
Along the way, I got professional help. Most of the others got help in the form of a prescription, which is a good start, but if it's not also accompanied by good counselling, then it's not necessarily going to change the underlying dynamics. In our family, at the very least, as much as some mental illnesses were caused by chemical imbalances, they weren't completely caused by chemical imbalances. At least some of them, probably most of them, also had twisted family dynamics contributing to them. No amount of drugs will ever fix that.
Eve, I'm going to add one more thing. I admire you and respect you for trying to sort this out. I think that it is important to figure all this stuff out so that you can fix these things in yourself and so you don't pass them on to future generations. You need to learn how to be healthy with yourself and others. The generic you, not the personal you.
And please, be kind and understanding with yourself, as well.
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posted
BunBun, I don't believe a doctor can label a preadolescent child shizophrenia. It is a weird thing with childhood mental illness. Even know they know the child probably will be labeled that way(usually based on a family member who has it).
So, that might be why he went so long without help?
Oh, it is so sad, and I am so sorry.
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Here is a link which is saying, basically, that most of the psychotic pats of schizophrenia appear later, so it is harder to diagnose, not that they can't or won't diagnose it:
quote: Neurodevelopmental damage seems to be greater in childhood schizophrenia than in the adult-onset type. Most schizophrenic children show delays in language and other functions long before their psychotic symptoms (hallucinations, delusions, and disordered thinking) appear, usually at age seven or later. In the first years of life, about 30% of these children have transient symptoms of pervasive developmental disorder, such as rocking, posturing, and arm flapping. Childhood home movies indicate uneven motor development, such as unusual crawling, in adult-onset schizophrenic patients. Children with schizophrenia may be even more seriously impaired in this respect; they are also more anxious and disruptive than adult-onset schizophrenic patients were as children.
posted
Elizabeth, I'm sure most doctors would be loathe to make that diagnosis. It's rare, afterall. But also, what you posted about neurological damage makes a lot of sense. It would almost have to be the case.
Anyway...Eve, bunbun, your family is not alone in what you describe as your reaction to even the thought of illness, let alone mental illness. If you can, arising from this experience, maybe besides being more careful to look for signs within the family, you can perhaps help other families recognize and deal more effectively with their own ill children.
The more people who are educated about mental illness as a set of real diseases with often a clear organic cause, the better. Treatment options are becoming more numerous and more effective all the time.
It's not the same as even 20 years ago. Not by a LONG shot. Let alone when most of the adults in the situation grew up (remembering the horror of someone's aunt or uncle being institutionalized or kept in the house under a watchful eye, etc.)
Again...I'm very sorry for your loss.
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first, I don't think I can fully appreciate the impact of the loss of your brother on you and your family. I've led a charmed life in terms of major tragedies so far.
I think there are lots of issues with kids and their willingness to talk to people or even feeling like it's needed. For one thing, kids don't have the experience or knowledge to know what's "normal." (For example, I was in my thirties before I realized that it was unusual, to say the least, to have double vision outside of my central field of vision, so I never mentioned it to anyone.)
Then there are things that kids and teens are just reluctant to report to parents. Again, from my own experience, when I was in fifth grade, I never told my parents I had been targeted, stalked and tormented by a larger and older kid in middle school. That only came out when he shoved my head against a wall in front of another kid - who then got a teacher when I collapsed on the floor. Why didn't I tell anyone? Beats me. I still can't understand it.
When it comes to psychiatric conditions, there are other issues. There are several problems with trying to treat early. No psychiatric medication comes without a cost. (I'm not bashing psychiatric drugs, but the cost/benefit ratio exists with almost any medication.) Some of the costs can be considerable and create new problems.
It gets even fuzzier in the hinterlands of diagnostic categories. There are plenty of people with "classic" symptoms of conditions like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. Many of them get lucky early on with the right medication(s) with an acceptable cost/benefit ratio.
There are plenty of people who don't fit neatly, though. And some of them spend years struggling with (if they're lucky) good psych professionals finding the right combination of medications - maximum benefit and minimum cost.
(A colleague of mine has bipolar, but was misdiagnosed initially. In his manic phase, he exhibits symptoms that overlap with schizophrenia. Even with the correct diagnosis, it took a few years to find the optimal combination of medications.)
I'm a lay person - not a doctor or psychologist. But I do have a lot of experience with policy literature, and the stories of friends and colleagues.
In other words, take it for what it's worth.
One real crime is that the outreach programs to reach people on the streets are almost nonexistent - and drastically underfunded.
Just rambling thou
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posted
I'm one of those people who've had many diagnoses and different drug mixtures.
I was first diagnosed with major depressive disorder. That became Bipolar II disorder. That got treated alone for a couple years as doctors struggled to figure out which medication combination would work best. You name an atypical antipsychotic, I've been on it. Dealing with the depressive aspects of my bipolar disorder was surprisingly easy. Lamictal took care of that, but it's a poor mood stabilizer. So they went to atypicals to find something that would control the hypomania so that I could lead a normal life. None of them worked because of my reactions to them--I would be severely sedated and sleep a LOT. They tried other mood stabilizers. I was on Lithium for a week and was horribly sick. They tried different antiseizure medication (often used to stabilize moods) without any luck. The symptoms of hypomania would still remain. Both my doctors (psychologist and psychiatrist, who work well together) kept saying they were missing something.
Then my psychologist asked me if any of my relatives had ADHD.
My answer was, "My sister, my father, most of my cousins, my grandmother, my uncles..."
Then the docs realized that part of the symptoms presenting might not be hypomania all the time, but ADHD. They tried Ritalin and it worked to control the ADHD. The change was amazing and I wouldn't even think of giving it up.
But something was still off. I still had a LOT of trouble sleeping, and sleep is so important and lack of sleep alone can screw up anyone's moods. Finally, last November, we tried a baby dose of an atypical antipsychotic called Seroquel. It worked. I didn't react badly, I sleep as long as any "normal" person would need to sleep. My moods are stabilized. It took nearly three years to get things settled. In the meantime, I've lost two jobs, had to repeat a year of graduate school, was hospitalized eight times, made a wreck of my life, then had to fix it, and by the time I fixed it, there would be a new mood cycle and it would become rinse, repeat.
I never told my parents anything. I never went to my family.
But I can't imagine having to do this without medication and therapy. Years ago, it wouldn't have happened. I would be institutionalized, a waste to society.
Instead, now stabilized and leading a normal (as normal as my life can get anyway) life, I contribute.
The struggled of those who have a mental illness are hard, they're long, they're tough as hell. Add the stigma of society to that, and they're near impossible without the help and support as others. We're sociable beings, we aren't meant to be alone as we live. And that's what people have to do, ill or not, is to live life.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I'd like to speak about my big brother. He is schizophren. He had a problem with authority, with his teachers when he was young. But he was, and is very intelligent : he reads books very, very much ; he builds many wood things ; he loves sciences and try to learn maths by himself (i help him when he asks me).
My brother have a medical treatment each mounth. He was tired because of it, but he knows it's important for him. So he doesn't want to stop it.
But he don't get out to show friends. He has just my mother, and his brothers and sisters. Sometimes i nightmare about if my mother desapear... What will happen to him ?
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posted
This thread makes me very sad. Is it my imagination or are schizophrenics more often male? Are men more likely to be in denial, and thus more likely to remain without help until things get critical?
I did a research paper back in high school. It was actually a summary of an article in Scientific American that the alcoholism gene that had been identified might actually be a schizophrenia gene. I know it is quite common in Irish redheads.
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posted
Here's what makes me so sad about this - I mean, beyond the obvious sadness at a young, promising life cut short: Four people are absolutely beating themselves up, wondering what combination of words, tone of voice, presentation style, and gestures would have convinced Casey to go to treatment. If Casey had called any one of them and said, "I need to get help," they would have been on the next flight out to where ever he was.
Short of locking him up against his will, there's nothing they could have done to prevent his being in Indianapolis that day. And even locking him up against his will wouldn't have solved the problem, or guaranteed his still being alive.
Even knowing in their heads that there's nothing they could have done doesn't help them know it in their hearts. Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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When my sister was going through her worst, she was. . . strange. Chaotic. Bizarre. Odd. When she was feeling okay, she knew she needed help, and tried to get herself admitted to a mental hospital, but was told that because she wasn't, at that moment, suicidal or a danger to others, that she couldn't be admitted - there wasn't enough room. But of course, when she was a danger to herself or others, she was in no state to ask for help. She even asked our brother and I to do what we could to get her admitted, and still no dice for the same reason. We approached the police, same thing, only she had to be actively involved in the act of harming herself or others. That was the only criteria that would work. Canada's stellar medical system in action.
We were lucky in that my sister recognized she needed help and tried to do something about it. It frequently isn't that way. There's no point in anyone beating themselves up about this.
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quote:Originally posted by mothertree: This thread makes me very sad. Is it my imagination or are schizophrenics more often male?
Yes.
quote: The male/female ratio in adults is about 1.2:1. Male patients typically have their first acute episode in their early twenties, while female patients are usually closer to age 30 when they are recognized with active symptoms.
Schizophrenia is rarely diagnosed in preadolescent children, although patients as young as five or six have been reported. Childhood schizophrenia is at the upper end of the spectrum of severity and shows a greater gender disparity. It affects one or two children in every 10,000; the male/female ratio is 2:1.
Dags and Eve, my heart goes out to you. I'm lucky -- my bipolar brother agreed to treatment, found a fairly successful combination of meds within a relatively short time, and has stayed on them (with only a very brief off-the-wagon time a few months after his diagnosis -- a time which destroyed a friendship that had lasted over 10 years).
But he is the one who made those choices. My parents and the rest of us kids were able to provide support, but he was the one who had to make the healthy choices -- even though all of us has to deal with the consequences when he did not. (That former friend will not speak to any of us now, and was a family friend. And I don't even know what happened. )
I wish both of you and your family peace. *hug*
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posted
Dag & Eve, and Eve's family. What Dagonee has said is true. There is no way for a family to help a resistant person short of forced institutionalization, and that isn't usually a long-term option either (most states will do short-term involuntary "psych admits" but that's about it.
Unless they commit some crime and are sentenced or are obviously an immediate danger to themselves or others.
And really, long term care for mental illness is seriously lacking in this country. Iowa just passed a law requiring health coverage plans to cover mental illness. It applies only to firms with >50 employees. Iowa is one of the few states with such a plan.
Many seriously ill patients end up having to go on disability and then they are deemed "surplus" by the bureacracy. Even if they are capable of working "sometimes" they are barred from doing so for fear that they might lose their disability. If they marry, they also risk losing their disability (i.e., if the spouse has coverage...). It's so difficult for the average person to wade through the typical sea of paperwork and official degradation that to do it over again (after losing it) would be totally daunting.
Our attitudes about mental illness are from 100 years ago or more. And they aren't changing fast enough. I see some signs of change, but not nearly enough. Part of the problem is religion, but I'd say the biggest part of the problem is just plain garden-variety ignorance. People don't know that much of what was untreatable is now not only treatable, but quite managable. That the treatment options have become many and varied.
It takes a lot of strength to fight the prevailing wisdom. Too much strength for many of the people who suffer from these diseases.
posted
Even though I'm brand-spanking new (first comment/post ever) I hope I can offer you some consolation.
Like your brother, I've heard voices since I was 9 years old. I've been diagnosed with an illness called Schizoaffective, which is like schizophrenia in that I hallucinate without being triggered by a mood swing, but I also experience depressive moods.
I never told anyone about the hallucinations, either. Not until I was 14 and I was hospitalized. I guess because I didn't realize I was sick- children (especially pre-adolescents) don't have a clear understanding of what is mentally and emotionally normal and what isn't. When I was little, I thought thought my voices were normal. I thought being depressed was normal. As for mentally ill adolescents, they're not only going through a teen angst phase- they're also dealing with illness. The result is being emotionally isolative. I hope that gives you some insight on why kids have a hard time expressing their pain.
However, there is hope in recognizing when a child needs help. Most children suffer from mental illness because of trauma. I don't know your brother's story, but perhaps something happened to him- he had an experience that, as a 9 year old, was impossible to deal with. If parents (or friends or other family members) know that a child has been through a traumatic event, or is being raised in an unhealthy living environment, then they should take the necessary steps to ensure that the child receives help in dealing with what's happened. I think that is one of the most important things parents need to remember, in watching for signs of mental illness in their children.
And I agree that there's a negative stigma surrounding schizophrenia. It's because everyone associates hallucinations with being violent or homicidal, thanks to serial killers. Majority of schizophrenics are not that way. But as bipolar and depression become more prevalent, hopefully we as a society can address the issues of severe mental illness.
Anyway, I hope my answers were of some value. I'm truly sorry about the loss of your brother- having been in treatment I've known many, many people who were at risk of dying young because of their illness. Just thinking of it was painful enough, so I can't imagine what you must be feeling now.
posted
I am too tired to read this whole thread tonight but I thought I would share my experience quickly.
My uncle was schizophrenic. It developed in his late teens. I have heard that it was drug-induced, but the drugs may have just been a way of cooping with his problem.
He was never totally accepted by some members of the family. I think the felt like some of his behaviors were embarrassing. When he swam across the Ohio River naked and was on the front page of the paper, my uncle that lives in Louisville was mortified that his fellow professors or his students would find out. It was hard to talk to him at family gatherings because he would hear voices in his head, and couldn’t tell the difference between the voices in his head and the ones in the room. This made him and the people around him uncomfortable so he didn’t attend many gatherings. I think that the family had a hard time accepting his behaviors because that meant accepting that their brother/ son had a disease that they couldn’t do anything about. I think it was easier for them to judge and avoid the problem then really deal with what having a schizophrenic family member meant for him and for them.
Despite all of this he was still taken care of. He had and apartment that his parents paid for, and a money was provided for him to live off of. He always had his needs met. He was able to accept help so he got what he needed. His mother was too much of a caring compassionate woman to allow anything else to happen. He died about 8 years ago. It was kind of a freak accident totally unrelated to his illness. I wish I would have been old enough to really know him before he died.
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posted
has anyone read I Know This Much Is True by Wally Lamb? I've read it a few times and own a copy of my own. It's about identical twin brothers, one has schizophrenia, the other does not. It's a good book, and shows the struggles of the healthy twin as he tries to come to terms with his brother's illness.
Another good book is by Kay Redfield Jamison--An Unquiet Mind and is about the author's struggles with bipolar I disorder. The auther is a well-respected psychologist at Johns Hopkins University.
Trauma isn't always the cause of mental illness. It isn't anyone's "fault." It happens. What remains to be seen is what will happen once things are figured out. How people will react, how and if treatment will be sucessful, if treatment will even be accepted at all.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:Another good book is by Kay Redfield Jamison--An Unquiet Mind and is about the author's struggles with bipolar I disorder.
I'm pretty sure I read that when my brother was first diagnosed. Also a biographical look at bipolar disease from some actress-whose-name-completely-escapes-at-the-moment.
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Not all religion, but some religious attitudes and teachings have been used to fight against the idea that mental illness is an organic (brain-based) phenomenon. That attitude has tended to hamper access to treatment for some, and add to the "stigma" of mental illness in general -- as a visitation from evil or a punishment from God.
I am happy to say that most major religions have a more enlightened official attitude toward mental illness and treatment today than has been true in the past or certainly "historically".
Ignorance regarding mental illness has not been unique to religious-based attitudes, but these certainly have been in a leadership position throughout history on the subject.
Here's an excellent article (from 1970) showing how much things have changed from the "old" days -- it also points to some prior research on how church attendance can contribute to mental health.
posted
One of my best friends dads has, we think, schizophrenia. We don't know for sure becuase he completely refuses any type of treatment, even being diagnosed. He's very paranoid... and also a gun repairman o_O that bit has always had me a little worried for my friend. My friend doesn't live with him anymore, but still visits him. I occationally hear stories about his dad talking about being abducted, or holding a metal plate to his head to help him commune with the spirits and such. His dad , when not acting nutty, is actually something of a genius. The line between genius and insanity really is pretty thin I guess.
I dunno how accurate it is, but one of my favorite movies on the subject is A Beautiful Mind about John Nash, who fought and managed to beat paranoid schizophrenia.
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quote:Originally posted by mackillian: has anyone read I Know This Much Is True by Wally Lamb?
Trauma isn't always the cause of mental illness. It isn't anyone's "fault." It happens.
That is one of my favorite books. Wally Lamb is an excellent writer.
And I don't know if this comment was directed at me, but I know trauma isn't always the cause of mental illness. In many cases the disorder schizophrenia just *happens*, even to the most well-rounded individuals, but most of the time symptoms form in a person's late teens or early twenties. In the cases of childhood mental illness, including ilnesses that have schizophrenic traits, it is most likely a result of environmental factors.
Posts: 46 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I love this film, Alcon. Very interesting for people like me who love a parent or a friend with this ill. I have a though for my Brother.
Posts: 1189 | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:I know trauma isn't always the cause of mental illness. In many cases the disorder schizophrenia just *happens*, even to the most well-rounded individuals, but most of the time symptoms form in a person's late teens or early twenties. In the cases of childhood mental illness, including ilnesses that have schizophrenic traits, it is most likely a result of environmental factors.
I think this is incorrect. My understanding is that "environmental factors" would include things like child-rearing patterns of the parents as well as things like exposure to noxious chemicals -- anything outside the individual's own body (or DNA in some viewpoints) is labeled "environmental influence."
If you mean that broad a statement, then perhaps it's okay in the sense that schizophrenia with unknown etiology is probably the most common form of the disease.
However, it is also the case that the brain/mind "interface" (if you'll indulge the use of such a term) is still not well understood enough to separate out the influences of genetics versus maturational issues versus external (environmental) issues.
The reason I take exception to your statement, especially with regard to schizophrenia, is that I don't think one could "make" a person schizophrenic through any external means other than, perhaps, by damaging their brain physically in specific ways. I do not think that bad (even REALLY BAD) child rearing practices, for example, could create a schizophrenic mind. A seriously warped and dangerious mind, no doubt. But not truly schizophrenic. (okay, maybe if the child is physically abused and brain damage results -- but not through mental abuse, not to arrive at schizophrenia).
I'm pretty sure that most practicing psychologists, and even the majority of psychoanalysts would agree. It's a set of ailments that arises from problems in the physical brain.
For those suffering from schizophrenia, this is better news than one might otherwise suppose. The brain (and mind) have a lot of self-healing properties (at least corrective and sustaining -- neurons aren't generally replaceable --yet!). Also, drug therapies are proving remarkably effective (which, in itself helps convince practitioners of the organic nature of these diseases).
Physical trauma to the brain in infancy appears to be one explanation for later schizophrenia, but it's not the only one, of course. Trauma later in life (I'm talking physical traumatic brain injury, not psychological trauma) can cause symptoms, but usually the resulting problems are labeled "schizophrenia-like".
Anyway, the basic truth is nobody knows what causes schizophrenia in a general sense. The mechanistic explanations -- believing that it is related to physical problems in the brain -- are certainly ascendant today.
I haven't heard any good reason to abandon that belief given how many fruitful treatment options it has led to, and how much hope there is because of it.
It is worth noting that some views of psychological trauma propose that it may "work" by affecting the brain. There's some research evidence in favor of this. If this is born out it would provide a link between the "environment" and the mechanistic view that, perhaps, might clear up a few really perplexing issues about mental illness.
I say "if we're lucky" that's what will happen. Mainly because that would hold out the hope that the vast majority of mental illnesses could be at least treated (if not completely cured) by returning the brain to proper functioning.
I think there's still a huge need for therapists (and specifically idea-based therapies) in all of this. Just because you can "fix" the brain (I hope, someday) doesn't mean that the person hasn't picked up some self-destructive habits or persistently troubling (disabling) ideas along the way through their illness. But the point is that you probably need to treat both the brain and the resulting mind to get true mental health. And if you don't have good treatments for the brain part of it, you probably can't do much for the mind part of it.
posted
Trauma inducing the onset of a mental illness is part of the stress-diathesis theory, if I'm remembering correctly. Basically, a person might have a genetic propensity for a mental illness (most likely a mood disorder) but not actually manifest it unless an outside triggering event occurs, such as abuse. But abuse can screw up anyone.
But schizophrenia, as Bob said, is much more a brain disorder physically. Some studies have shown that folks with schizophrenia have enlarged front ventricles--this means other parts of the brain have less volume. That's something that wouldn't be triggered by an external event related to rearing in childhood.
But I do agree about abuse having some sort of effect on whether or not someone manifests a mood disorder.
I often wonder, if I had been raised in a non abusive home, if I would have a mood disorder now. The ADHD, that's pretty genetic in our family, mostly everyone has it and I doubt it's environmentally caused.
But the mood disorder...I honestly don't know.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
My sympathies, Eve. Hard enough to lose a family member, harder still to be plagued with doubt and anguish over how or whether one could have been more help in their life.
quote:We worked through everything. ... The worst thing someone could be to us was a hypochondriac. The sad thing is, this attitude persisted even after it became abundantly clear that he very much needed help--it was just "in his head." Actually addressing the problem just made his problems, and our problems "real."
As a former Christian Scientist (link) I really identified with this. I have fought my way free of depression and alcohol over the past 3 years, and found much support from my sister but never considered going to my parents. They love me in that 'unconditional-with-baggage' way. I even stopped talking intimately with my other sister, the one who is closer to my parents.
I needed most of all make pathways of my own, for the first time in my life (I'm sure many 45+ year-olds share my amazement at this lifelong process -- I think my parents would still say 'grow up already!').
Having whipped depression, we (I and my counselors/doctors) focused on Adult ADD. The narratives I read of classic ADD symptoms in children (without the hyperactivity) matched my childhood experience to a T. Ritalin is helping me tremendously.
With the religious underpinning, the tendency to answer the question 'Why can't Johnnie do X?' with 'He just has to try harder/be a better person' was even more pronounced. And so I began a lifetime of compensating with a mask of 'everything's okay.'
It takes trust and courage to say 'I'm not okay,' and accept help.
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I can totally relate about the "kids not knowing any better thing" When I was young 7-15 my back constantly hurt, I'd have headaches too. I'd tried to help my mother around the house. She'd give me tasks that I should be able to do and I'd try to help her. I always did everything without complaining, because my logic was that if I was young and *my* back hurt, hers must have hurt even worse because she was "old" and old people had aches and pains in every book I read. At 15 I suspected I might have it wrong, I asked my mother how she survived with all the pain. She about fell over when she heard my logic. I didn't know pain wasn't a normal part of life. And for me to this day it is somewhat, since I have a chronic neck problem.
Anyway as far as environmental factors triggering things, I went through an extremely stressful, miserable time several years ago. Since that point my brain has never functioned like it did "before". I've become increasingly "twitchy" and have lost much of my ability to focus on tasks. Things have gotten worse and worse and were affecting my job performance at a job which I otherwise love. Turns out, I have mild ADHD. I may have otherthings in addition, but the ADHD escalation was what was making it so that I couldn't function any longer. The psychiatrist put me on a low dose of ritalin a week ago now, and it is like a miracle.
I don't know exactly what changed and why my brain couldn't recover itself completely after it crashed, but I'm glad there are drugs out there that can compensate.
The reason I take exception to your statement, especially with regard to schizophrenia, is that I don't think one could "make" a person schizophrenic through any external means other than, perhaps, by damaging their brain physically in specific ways.[/QUOTE]
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying, so let me be more specific. Childhood psychosis (hearing voices, visual hallucinations) is extremely rare and in most instances it is brought on by extreme trauma the way disassociative identity disorder is (multiple personalities). In some cases of people who have dealt with voices and delusions since childhood, doctors diagnose the psychosis, or symptoms brought on by post-traumatic stress AS schizophrenia because it is now hard-wired into their brain chemistry like a split personality.
I understand completely that schizophrenia is a disease of the brain, and healthy people become afflicted with it. I'm just saying that it is very rare for a person to have schizophrenic traits at an early age, without some sort of traumatic event.
As someone with a disease called Schizoaffective, which is like schizophrenia + the extreme mood swings of a person with bipolar. I understand fully the complex issues involved in diagnosis. I've heard and seen things that weren't there since I was 9, and while traumatic events could have had something to do with it- I also have the genetic predisposition to be mentally ill. My sister is bipolar, and my uncle and half-sister has schizophrenic-like traits (SHE is currently in a mental health facility seeking help). So is MY illness a result of psychological trauma, or was it because I had a fishtank fall on my head when I was two? Or could it be because the rest of my family is mentally ill?
I think all of the above, but I do wish to emphasize the pyschological trauma. Majority of the time Schizophrenia and Schizoaffective dont' become apparent until the late teens, early twenties. For children who don't have family members who are ill, and children who haven't had physical trauma to the brain- what other reasons could there be? Not to say it's THAT simple, but we can't rule out pyschological trauma for the cause of schizophrenic traits in children.
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Even community mental health centers have problems seeing a mental illness as biological and treating it thusly.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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