quote:Trust in a bottle? It sounds like a marketer's fantasy, like the fabled fountain of youth or wild claims of fad diets. Yet that's what Swiss and American scientists demonstrate in new experiments with a nasal spray containing the hormone oxytocin.
After a few squirts, human subjects were significantly more trusting and willing to invest money with no ironclad promise of a profit.
The researchers acknowledged their findings could be abused by con artists or even sleazy politicians who might sway an election, provided they could squirt enough voters on their way to the polls.
"Of course, this finding could be misused," said Ernst Fehr of the University of Zurich, the senior researcher in the study, which appears in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature. "I don't think we currently have such abuses. However, in the future it could happen."
Other scientists say the new research raises important questions about oxytocin's potential as a therapy for conditions like autism or social phobias, in which trust is diminished. Or, perhaps the hormone's activity could be reduced to treat more rare diseases, like Williams' Syndrome, in which children have no inhibitions and approach strangers fearlessly.
"Might their high level of trust be due to excessive oxytocin release?" asks University of Iowa neurologist Antonio Damasio, who reviewed the experiments for Nature. "Little is known about the neurobiology of trust, although the phenomenon is beginning to attract attention."
This would be great when playing poker.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Morbo, that's exactly what I was thinking. Also, not just date rape, but keeping someone in a relationship that they probably wouldn't be in if their trust senses were working properly.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Oxytocin can be some powerful stuff! It general actions include smooth muscle contractions, particularly during childbirth and milk ejection during feeding!
Posts: 514 | Registered: May 2005
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ElJay, it already does that... oxytocin is secreted during sex and has been thought to cause a strong, sometimes irrational, bond between sex partners. I think it's also considered to be responsible for Mom-Baby bonding right after childbirth.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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I realize that, Jim-Me. But if that effect can be mimiced before a relationship has gotten to the sex stage, or administered when things have gotten bad enough that someone has managed to override what their body is naturally producing and try to leave anyway... Just added potential for badness.
Now, as far as a data rape drug, I can't imagine letting someone walk up and shoot some unknown substance up my nose. But if they get it to the stage where it could be put in the center of a flower, say. If a date handed me a flower when he picked me up, my natural inclination would be to sniff it. Or he gives me a bottle of perfume, I'm probably going to put some on my wrist and smell it. Both of which could cause an inappropriate level of trust way before I would be considering sleeping with a guy if all my normal facilities are in place.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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The only reason this is nasal is so that it can penetrate the blood-brain barrier. You could in theory develop another delivery system that didn't involve jamming something up someone's nose.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Actually, I think Date-rape drugs already work in either direction. The major reason more women don't use is that most women realize that if they want sex, they can get it without trying too hard.
That said, this scares the holy-heck-darn outta me. Think if we could all be convinced to trust some really untrustworthy leader (not that it doesn't happen anyway).
Frankly, I love my scepticism and fear losing it by artifice.
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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I sometimes wonder what scientists think about when they're designing and researching such things. I mean, this is a medical bit of news that has wide-reaching implications, it looks like, sure. But is there anything else to say other than, "If I don't design this, someone else will?"
I fail to think of any common applications for this sort of discovery that aren't horrifying. Specific mental problems mentioned...isn't this rather swatting a fly with an axe? I don't think something like this could be developed to only induce specific trust. You can't tailor it and have each bottle say, "Increases trust in..."
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Luckily it only works 2 hours. I doubt that the intranasal route would work as well if the drug were tinkered with to last longer, so that reassures me, as far as unscrupulous leaders go. That short duration won't impair its use as a date rape type drug though.
Posts: 1990 | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Actually, I think Date-rape drugs already work in either direction. The major reason more women don't use is that most women realize that if they want sex, they can get it without trying too hard.
I don't know - apparantly some guys are willing to actually knock out a woman before raping her. That doesn't seem possible going the other way to me. Do most date rape drugs do that, or lower inhibitions but keep the person conscious.
And let me just add, the fact this is common enough to be discussed like this just goes to show how evil people can be,
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I think the most common date rape drug induces a very suggestible state, similar to hypnosis, and usually the victim has no memory of what happened while under the influence of it. I think that particular one(rohypnol?) would work either way, but that's just a guess. I just don't think it's usually necessary for a woman to use such extreme measures to get someone to have sex with her. Again, I could be wrong(I don't have any practical experience with seducing people, and perhaps I flatter myself that it wouldn't be terribly difficult), but that's just how it seems to me.
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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I agree that it's far more likely for a man to want to do that than a woman. I was unaware of the exact effects of the date rape drugs, so this seemed like a relatively new concept to me.
Either way, it's depressing to contemplate.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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All I know about it is what I've seen on the TV news/ publc service type of announcements.
And, Yes. It is very depresssing. I paid special attention when these things were getting headlines, because my oldest neice was just starting college.
I had this irrational urge to encase her in plexiglass.
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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I must be weird. My initial thought was of childbirth, and yes, of course oxytocin influences trust. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I wonder if people would take this voluntarily? Like a couple, either as part of marriage or couples counseling or just informally, recreationally.
Or in a group setting, like a small church.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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I don't know about anyone else, but I get cramps often enough. I am not voluntarily taking extra stuff that will make my uterus contract (aside from circumstances surrounding childbirth, perhaps.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I am highly skeptical of the power of "pheremones" on humans. I just don't see any smell as removing a person's free will.
There are many things that already cloud our judgement. Someone's charming manner, their good looks, the tone of voice, the choice of words. Do any of those things remove our free will? They sway us, sure. I don't think any chemical scent of any kind would do any more than that. It *influences* but that is something we deal with all the time.
And it isn't like oxytocin is a new substance to us. As has already been stated, it comes into play in some of the most basic of human bonding relationships.
I mean, what if they did the above experiment exept that they compared how much we trusted a good looking person compared to a homely one? Or one that smelled pleasant compared to one that had body odor? Come on people! This isn't something to fret over.
::squirts oxytocin up Hatrack's nose::
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Not all, but when I've just finished my PMS cramps, I don't want to be within several hundred miles of anything that causes them. I literally threw a tampon across the room today. And I wince every time the baby wants to nurse, even though I normally enjoy it.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by beverly: I am highly skeptical of the power of "pheremones" on humans. I just don't see any smell as removing a person's free will.
bev, pheremones' existence or effectiveness in humans seem very controversial--many (most?) scientists don't believe in human pheremones. But I don't think this spray acts like a classically defined pheremone.
Most pheremones, AFAIK, just activate specialized scent receptors, which can cause a response, but they don't directly change brain chemistry.
Does this spray deliver more concentrated hormone that goes into the bloodstream and affects brain chemistry more directly? I think so and I tried to google it but was unsuccessful.
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But if they get it to the stage where it could be put in the center of a flower, say. If a date handed me a flower when he picked me up, my natural inclination would be to sniff it. Or he gives me a bottle of perfume, I'm probably going to put some on my wrist and smell it. Both of which could cause an inappropriate level of trust way before I would be considering sleeping with a guy if all my normal facilities are in place.
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