posted
Are my memories real? My parents both confronted me and both accused me of making up all the abuse that they did to me; I am really really scared; how do I know I didn't? I know I didn't, but aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh *is crying*
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
I brought up a memory from several years ago, when my father hit me in the face. This caused him to respond with the following: "Don't be rude. Clean up the trash."
I walked away, came back, and he apologized for hurting my feelings.
Today my Mother contacts me and demands to know what happened. I tell the story; she then demands to know how I was abused. I mention memories such as her wildly spanking me, crying all day, then having my dad hit me in the face (which is the full day story of this event.)
She responds by completely avoiding the issue, and how I wasn't an easy kid, messy, blah blah blah. I ask her if she denied those memories, which she did not really do at first, but when I pressed her, she did.
My Dad later talks to me and the same happens. He, however, does admit to the incident several years ago, but says that it was only a slap and that I am grossly misremembering things. I mention another memory -- of being under the dining room table, hearing him laugh wildly, drunk, and palying hide and seek with me. The story then goes that he stops after a while and goes to his room and laughes for many hours afterwarsd.
He accuses me of absolutly creating this all up.
I am really confused. I know that these events happened. But now I am not sure, and I am really, really scared.
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posted
It happened. People just have convenient(ly forgetful) memories in which they are always the "good guys".
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Oh, it happened, all right. If you truly think that it happened, it happened. I wouldn't press the issue, though... and I wouldn't have brought it up at all. Nothing is impossible to repair; no broken relationship, no trust. This, however, will be pretty damned hard to clean up.
Are you living with your parents? That'll sting in the morning if you are. Be ready for it.
I have experience with this sort of thing, though not to the terrible extent you're talking about. And my parents get along with me wonderfully now.
Posts: 28 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
It is very possible to substitute other memories (or even made up ones) for trauma experienced during childhood.
I actually did this but in a different manner than what Phanto is describing. In my situation, I created false ‘good’ memories to hide over real traumatic ones.
My mother’s third husband was very physically violent and would often whip me over the back, bare skinned, like a rented mule. The experience went far beyond pain. To a nine-year-old it was the stuff that horror films were made of. During this time my mother was participating in the abuse to a much more limited degree by not attempting to stop him and playing along with his savagely verbal abuse by joining in with him.
Once law enforcement became involved thanks to my half-brother’s family (half by blood, whole by heart and mind) she denied any knowledge of abuse only to later plead guilty to it to get a reduced sentence (two weeks in the pokey and some fines).
As a condition of getting custody of me returned two her we had to undergo counseling together because the courts said her and I had a communication problem (this was still under the pretext that she had “no idea this was going on”). The judge felt we needed to learn to communicate so this wouldn’t slip by her ever again.
Interesting side note: During the Clinton administration’s downsizing of the cold war military, our armed forces were looking for any excuse possible to deny entry due to limited jobs. They had no reason to reject me until they asked if I ever had psychotherapy. They used that court ordered counseling incident as their basis for keeping me out of the US Coast Guard (I wanted to be a rescue diver). They said, “Sorry, but you are mentally unstable and unfit for service.” Thanks mom.
Anyway, during counseling, the therapist uncovered several ‘false memories’ and perceptions I had unconsciously put in place as a wall for mental self-defense. Strangely, he never turned this same idea on my mother. Years later I would argue with her over events that she claimed I “made up.” In essence, she had covered over many of her bad memories with false ones or burried them so deep that she could not retrieve them.
So it is possible that either Phanto or his/her parents could be suffering from this. And Phanto, you can’t hold them too strongly to the times when they were intoxicated as far as memory goes (for their actions, yes; for their memory, no). But as their child they owe it to you to listen and at least make amends for situations they might not remember while under the influence. You are their kid, they should trust your feelings to be genuine and true. Even if you were making it up as they claim, they should be talking things over with you to find out where the real source of the bad feelings are; not just wiping you the situation under the table.
I personally don’t think you are making things up or have false memories. They though may have covered over things in their mind that they are embarrassed or not proud of doing. Then again they may be outright lieing because they cannot cope with unhappy emotions. How do they deal with other situations where they may be exposed to bad feelings? Do they act the same? Is it with others, or only you?
Posts: 339 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Yes; two related cases that happened recently.
a) I was sleeping on a Friday night. Some of the family normally goes and does a religious rite at this time. I was tired, so I decided to pass. My mother comes over and accuses me of trying to upset everyone, of trying to make a scene. It was particullarly the tone of voice with which she spoke that struck me; cold and frazzled and insane.
b) Again, on a Friday night, my family was conducting a religious rite. My toe suddenly started spasming and moving without my counscious direction. It straightened fully and started hurting.
The pain was not so fantastic, but the shock was, and I yelled "my toe is paralyzed," bent over, grabbed it, and started to sort of grimace and what not.
No one, besides my brother, paid attention to me besides to indicate that I was holding the religious ceremony up, that it was not so bad.
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
From my experience it sounds like your parents may have some unresolved issues of their own. These may come from their childhood as well.
The problems they have may be hidden deep within them. For example: Most human beings are highly susceptible to guilt. It is amazing just how powerful this one emotion is. Because it is so strong it can have a dramatic impact on the kinds of adults we become as we come of age. Let me give you a personal example:
I am overweight by about sixty pounds. I do not have the willpower to fight this mental disease. Yes, I say mental disease. I call it that because I realized my weight is a compensation for the guilt I felt as a child for my mother’s own unhappiness. Let me explain: When my mother was between men she was depressed. During those times she would over-eat and sing her woes to me (she also smoked a lot of pot, but kept that hidden from me). As a child, I wanted my mother to be happy (what child does not?) and I would eat all the unhealthy foods with her while listening to her problems; this seemed to make her happy. So I was happy.
As I became an adult I started having weight problems. No matter how hard I wanted to lose weight, I would cave and stuff even more food in my mouth then when I tired to quit. I learned through some introspection (and an insightful book) that I was feeling guilty for my mother’s misery. If I could lose my weight I would be happy, but my mother would still be unhappy. So to keep that guilt away I kept eating. As long as I was miserable then I wouldn’t have to feel that guilt. Understand? Since my mother and I are unresolved, I still have this problem.
When you say that your mother came at you “cold and frazzled and insane” I think to myself that she may have a problem that has nothing to do with you. She may be manifesting that problem knowingly or unknowingly onto you. If this is how your parents always act towards you, then I am wondering if they are having emotional problems of their own that they are not facing. If that is the case there may not be much that you can do except to ride it out until you can leave home. You can try to talk with them but it might prove extremely hard to get them to open up. And even if you can get them to talk, you may need some reinforcements. You sound young, and if so I’m not sure you have all the tools you would need for helping your parents to unravel their own hidden problems.
Your best tactic may be to learn how to work around their failings as parents. All I can suggest is to be as calm and rational as you can with them and try to engage them in some thoughtful conversation on the issues when they go off.
“I’m sorry I angered you mom. I was just really tired and felt like I needed to rest. I was not trying to embarrass the family.” “Well you did!” “Would you like me to come out for a while? I’d be glad to if you didn’t mind me going back to rest once I get tired again.” “What difference does it make?! Everyone’s gone!” “Well how about I come out and visit with you guys at least?” “Nevermind, you’re worthless!” “I’m sorry you’re angry, but I don’t feel I’m worthless. I’ll come out and visit next time then.”
That conversation look kinda familiar? This is the way my mother would have talked to me, and I wish I would have thought to talk that way back to her. Sometimes persistent rationalization is your only defense.
Posts: 339 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
My mother would, in the same sentence, say, "It never happened" and "Why don't you just get over it already?"
Well? Which one? If I should just get over it, then it happened. If it didn't happen, then what, exactly, should I be getting over?
She didn't take too kindly to me pointing out her contradiction.
She conveniently refused to ever admit to doing anything wrong. Ever. Even when there were witnesses. My father I never bothered speaking to about it - it just wasn't worth it.
I can't tell you, Phanto, whether you're making it up, it's real, or some kind of combination thereof. You're the only one who knows. But it sounds like you could use some professional help to learn how to deal with things, including their potential craziness. Please understand that I'm not saying you're nuts. I'm not. There's something to be said for learning how to cope with things and learning how to get past the patterns that abusive people have left us with.
posted
I experienced two situations similar to this in my childhood...
I lived with my father until the age of 10, when he went to prison (his "girlfriend" was 14.... one of her friends parents went to the police... long story.) I'm sure you can imagine how it was growing up in that kind of situation, and there are things that I know happened, but I have blocked them out so well I don't remember them at all. It can be frightening at times to know that bad things happened to you, and to not know even how bad it was. Because of this I know that it is extremely easy to block things out that you don't want to remember. I imagine that your parents are doing this. They probably felt guilty and embarrassed after acting that way, and blocked it out so they won't feel that way.
After my father went to prison I moved in with my aunt. She is also not the nicest person (physically and verbally abusive.) I remember one time in particular very vividly when she punched me in the eye, and gave me a black eye. She then proceeded to swear on my mother's grave that she would never hit me again. Obviously she continued to hit me. I am the only one that remembers this... She doesn't even remember the black eye. I think she "forgot" because she doesn't want to think about the fact that she swore on her sisters grave and then kept doing it. She does remember most of the other times she hit me though... although I imagine her version is a lot different from mine.
The point is, people want to remember good things. So if you remember it, I would tend to believe that it actually happened.
posted
Yeah, my abusive older brother came up with the "recovered memories" idea about ten years ago. I laughed so long and loud when he said it that he looked chagrined and hushed and hasn't tried that again. After all, there are so many witnesses, all of whom would have had to "recover" the same memories. "Get over it" is what I always was told by my mom. That and "well, you shouldn't have been so stupid!" and "Why did you let him do that?"
I guess her idea was that babies and toddlers really shouldn't go around letting people hurt them like that. Apparently she thinks it's just stupid and irresponsible of them to do that.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Phanto>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Don't worry. It is they who are crazy, not you. You are right to leave home and seek help.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
On the up side, surviving childhood abuse can have some positives too. It tends to make you not afraid of things. You learn to take a stand against bullies (when you decide it matters) and not let yourself be bullied by all the typical bully tactics. You also learn to stand up for others in similar circumstances. (It seems that the normal human response is to side with the strong against the weak.)
Apparently, childhood abuse affects brain development, as well. I read an article about this in Scientific American. Your brain morphology changes in ways that are presumed to be adaptive for harsh environments. And you learn that you don't ever ever want to be like the abusers. You learn to be extra careful to be kind to those who are vulnerable.
You learn, also, that you can rewrite your own scripts. That you choose how you are going to behave and respond in different situations. So you can take charge of your own instincts and train them to be as your own mind, heart, and spirit choose them to be.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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It would be dumb for me or anyone else to tell you that you weren't abused. Obviously, you feel like your parents abused you, and they most definitely didn't always treat you as they should have.
I just don't know what you are trying to accomplish by confronting your parents about it. Do you want them to get counseling so that they won't hurt you anymore? I'm guessing that you're mostly grown now and that you don't really feel like you are in danger there anymore--or you'd be gone.
Do you want them to apologize? Yeah, that'll happen. It is so much easier for people to "believe" that they never hurt their child than to admit that the offender is crazy and dangerous.
Forgiveness isn't just for the religious. I hope that you will learn that although the way your parents mistreated you was not your fault, the effect it has on you as an adult is your problem. It isn't theirs. Not to say that a caring parent wouldn't want you to be a happy, functioning, and loving adult and want to help you recover from his or her mistakes.
You can move on with your life without their help--or even a minor admission of guilt from them. I sincerely hope you give it a try.
Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Phanto, can you leave? Can you find another place to live? It seems like being there makes it psychologically more difficult to get over the things that happened to you.
Maybe you CAN forgive them, and not make it a big issue between you, but probably before that can happen, you need to just get away from them.
Being with them seeing them may be triggers for flashbacks, bad memories, nightmares, a whole host of really difficult reactions, and you need to get away from the triggers until you are strong enough to control them. Even if you can't leave for whatever reason. You need to find a way to protect yourself against them, find a way to feel safe, so you can help make yourself stronger.
Just some thoughts. Don't know if they are helpful or not.
Posts: 772 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I haven't read the entire thread, but I wanted to tell Phanto he's not alone. My parents have both built up blocks against certain events that not only do all of us children clearly remember but in some cases we also have disinterested third party verification. Like the time my mother busted out my front teeth by shoving me into the kitchen sink... and waited days to take me to the dentist. She insists it was an accident, that I'd tried to avoid getting slapped for talking back and that we were at the dentist within hours, but the school nurse was the one who called the dentist to set up an emergency appointment because I couldn't stand the pain caused when I tried to participate in class.
However, I also believe I have "memories" that aren't real. Things that my brother and sister say didn't happen the way I recall, or that they have absolutely no knowledge of despite my belief that they were involved in the situation.
Selective memory works both ways... unfortunately unless you have someone who can corroborate one memory, there may be no way to know for sure.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
You all who advise me to forgive and move on are correct and that is what I have done for the most part. I overreacted the past few days; I should not have brought the matter up in the first place, but I did, and then the ensuing reactions upset me.
But that was a temporary upset. On a day-to-day existence, I am over it; past is processed and packaged in little packets. I feel bad for my parents and pity them somewhat; they have mental issues. I also feel bad that I brought the matter up in such a blunt fashion, because nothing good could have come from it.
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
Nonsense. You needed to vent and we are here for you.
Just remember though that our opinions are just that, opinions. Take what you feel is useful from us for your own needs and go from there. All of us here who have had experience with abuse delt with it in our own ways.
Posts: 339 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I meant bringing it up in such a blunt fashion to my parents . But yes, Hatrack does seem to be full of savants in the affairs of the human heart and life. I know that if I ever really need wise advice about something, I can ask here.
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. But yes, Hatrack does seem to be full of savants in the affairs of the human heart and life. I know that if I ever really need wise advice about something, I can ask here.
