posted
In my lurking (what would be the reaction if you started a face-to-face conversation like that?) I've found that there are several people on this board who work with, in, around, and through the Video Game Industry. Having recently received a request for what education/skills/blood type would be required to get into the industry, I figured this could be a good place to discuss our various paths to the Golden Temple. In my conversations with people at other development studios, I've found no two paths are the same.
Any and all Game Professionals (or Data Wranglers or Pixel Pushers or <<cringe>> Programmers) out there, please share your tale!
Posts: 28 | Registered: May 2005
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Thanks for making the topic. Share your wisdom with us, oh wise one.
Btw, am i the only one pissed off at the commercials on TV for colleges giving degrees in game art and design? I just get so damn fired up from it for some reason. They glorify the industry so much with bad acting and terrible special effects.
"See these games? We play these for a living! AND ITS SOOO EASY. NO HARD WORK REQUIRED. WE JUST LAUGH AND PLAY GAMES ALL DAY."
Ugh.
and the one that annoys me the most...
"Aww man, hurry up, boss is coming in"
"Duuuuuude. I'm almost done with this level."
*Beautiful woman walks in*
"Hey, are you guys done with the graphics? I need another game designed!"
"We just finished level one, and we need the graphics tightened up a little bit."
"ok, thanks!"
"Hey, can you believe we got jobs playing video games?"
"Yeah i know. And my mom said i wouldn't get ANYWHERE with these games"
*me at home barfing from the acting*
"She was right guys. You don't learn how to make games by playing them all day."
Anyone who knows anything, knows that at best, Testing is repetitive and probably hard at times with terrilbe hours. They have to duplicate errors and glitches for the programmers to fix. I would almost hate to be a tester, but i'm pretty sure thats the bottem rung on the ladder to better positions. :-/
Oh listen to me, going on and on like i'm even on the path to the golden temple. Posts: 27 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Working in games, especially at a big studio, sounds like one of the most exhausting white-collar jobs ever. I hear crazy things about working conditions at EA. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I guess I might as well chime in; I'm currently a developer for a cell phone games company. I've pretty much always had a passion for computer tech and games, so any time I saw a chance to expand my knowledge of computer tech and programming abilities, I took it.
A lot of people these days enter college not knowing what they will major in; I had no such conundrums, and chose a university based entirely on my impressions of the Computer Science department after campus visitations. One of my professors got a contract job working on a cell phone game, and asked if I might be interested in joining in. I did the research, taught myself the APIs, and then signed the contract. Now, I'm still doing cell phone games on a contractual basis, but I'm working with different people.
Cell phone games are an interesting challenge, in that you don't have nearly the hardware capabilities or available memory of a PC or console system, and the code you write needs to be highly portable from phone to phone. Each phone has its own unique problems and quirks, screen sizes (and aspect ratios) vary wildly, and memory sizes range from "tight" to "virtually nonexistant."
All of this forces you to be more efficient in terms of how you code, while simultaneously forcing you to be more creative about the games you make. Cell phone games can't take on epic storytelling proportions the same way a console RPG can, nor can you expect to do real-time per-pixel shading as you might on a PC. Instead, your base artwork has to be good enough to work without special effects, and your games need to have that pick-up-and-play aspect that made the original Donkey Kong or Mario games so popular.
I figure I'll spend maybe a couple years doing this, and then take my expanded resume around to PC gaming firms. We'll see.
Posts: 293 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote: I would almost hate to be a tester, but i'm pretty sure thats the bottem rung on the ladder to better positions.
You know, I don't think I personally know a single game developer or art guy who started out as a tester.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I read an article in a gaming magazine a while ago that said that Testing is an entry level position to become a programmer or other higher up. Its not something i knew from personal experience.
:-/ but i'll take your word over the magazine's.
Posts: 27 | Registered: Jun 2005
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I met a guy named Kaviar (his real name was Cannon, but he changed it to Kaviar to be more marketable...whatever) who worked as lead music complser for several games, such as True Crime. I told him I compose music, and he gave me two pointers in case I wanted to get into the game music industry - 1. You always, always have to work yourself up from the floor, and it takes a long time to get a fun, reasonably paying job. 2. If you have genuine talent and ability within your field, you can and will get a job in the game industry. But it will take time; more time that with regular jobs.
Posts: 28 | Registered: Jun 2005
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I know several of them, Tom, but they have all either moved up the testing ladder (to become testers who manage other testers) or become data wranglers ("Programmer A needs this file from Artist B in format C rather than D - well it's a good thing I learned the alphabet!").
It seems to me that there are currently three general branches on the development side of the industry:
Programming: Coding, Scripting, Engine functionality, Tools, and everything else "under the hood."
Game Design: Core game concepts like gameplay, level architecture, Design Documents, QA (testing), and which button does what.
I'm sure all of you could augment these three lists further, but that's the basic idea. It's a triumvirate of Right Brainers, Left Brainers, and those who can handle a little of both (or, sometimes, neither). The most effective studios will have artists who can do a little programming, programmers with a formal understanding of aesthetic, and designers with talents in both camps.
As far as education goes, Marcel, I would recommend first deciding which branch you want to follow and then find which aspect of that you are best at.
In my case, I was in my last year of pre-med schooling - prepping to take the MCAT and feeling a little unsure about locking the next decade of my life into that rigid (yet safe!) structure. On a lark I took one of the new CG classes that the university was offering, and KAPOW! My zoology major was now a BFA in illustration (the closest thing to animation at the time) and my father was suddenly a very concerned surgeon.
I submitted a request to the administration regarding the absence of any real animation program and they responded by giving me free reign to create my own version of "The BYU Animation Major." I strung together a list of classes involving Computer Science, Figure Drawing, Puppetry, Film, Acrylic Painting and Writing. The administration accepted a list which, in my mind, was the coolest combination of interesting classes you could ever ask for. They have since locked down on a more sensible, sane, and boring Official Animation Major. Unfortunately, it doesn't rely on the storytelling aspect that I think is so critical to good animation and instead pushes the technical side.
My original intentions were to jump aboard the Pixar bandwagon and move to the sinful West coast. A good friend who had graduated with me (the infamous Donald Mustard) in a similar "custom major" called and convinced me that the world of gaming was one of the last frontiers for multi-faceted storytelling - that if I got hired on as an animator in Hollywood, I'd be doing that and only that for years. At this fun little game company he was with, I could animate AND write AND storyboard AND do concept art. I was sold.
So we made this game called Advent Rising and I got to do a little bit of everything. It was a blast. I'm definitely more on the Art branch of the industry, but being comfortable enough around a computer to tweak the game engine and string together some scripted triggers helps.
There's my two bits. Thanks for the input, Bekenn - are you on the programming branch then, or does the phone-games industry have a different setup?
How 'bout you, Puppy? You're on the multi-faceted Design branch, if I'm not mistaken. How did you get there?
Posts: 28 | Registered: May 2005
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Hmmm, well, i've definitley read up and have more experience in the animation side of things. I've read 2 giant animation books, and in my games i did all the art and animation. But i'm not artist. So i guess, the animation of someone elses work is always my forte. In fact, right now i'm working with an artist (Mindchamber) and programming/animating a game with his art.
So pathos, the main question is, who do you work for? Majesco?
Posts: 27 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Pathos Bill: Thanks for the input, Bekenn - are you on the programming branch then, or does the phone-games industry have a different setup?
Of those three, the closest fit is indeed programming, but when dealing with cell phone games, you simply don't have the luxury of a "team" of developers... which means I do everything except the actual pixel art (sprites and the like). Typically, each of us here works on a single project, with our art guy providing all the art for all projects, and our sound guy providing all the sound. Moreover, most of our games are ports of games that made it on the early stand-up arcade systems, so design usually boils down to the changes that need to be made, rather than establishing a whole new look and feel. Right now, I'm working on a semi-original project that may or may not ever see the light of day, but it's nice to have the freedom I have right now to make design choices or simply explore different ways of doing things.
Posts: 293 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Interesting, Bek. There is something very appealing about having the level of control you have - teamwork also requires surrendering (or compromising) some of your best ideas.
I work for GlyphX Games right now, Marcel. Majesco was our publisher.
...Man this forum moves fast! One day and we're already halfway down the second page!
Do we have any other Game Developers out there?
Posts: 28 | Registered: May 2005
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I would love to be a game developer, but besides a pretty solid grounding in the concepts that make a good game and lots of project planning experience, I have no relevant skills. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:I would love to be a game developer, but besides a pretty solid grounding in the concepts that make a good game and lots of project planning experience, I have no relevant skills.
There are other people who work in the industry who started with the exact same skill set. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Too true, katharina. Sadly enough, there are many people who have been in the industry for years and never moved beyond the exact same skill set. We refer to them as "Management."
That being said, Tom, you sound like someone with a share of ability (or at least comprehension) on both sides of the coin. Would you have any interest in becoming a Designer?
Posts: 28 | Registered: May 2005
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Seriously? Yes. I absolutely would. It's actually one of my four or five "if I won the lottery and consequently had the luxury to go to school for two or three years to retrain" dream jobs.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Marcelarrow, on the other side: What! You don't use Qwerty? No way! i heard there were 'better' formats out there.
Yup. The best (and probably most popular) non-QWERTY layout is the Dvorak layout, which comes with every modern operating system. Switching layouts tends to be pretty easy, although some may find it annoying that the letters they type no longer match the key labels.
Whatever. I look at it as an added security bonus that nobody else can type easily on my system.
quote:Are other formats popular with game developers? I'm far too used to qwerty.
Not particularly. QWERTY is the de facto standard pretty much everywhere. I know a total of one other person who uses Dvorak, and he's not in the tech industry at all.
quote:I think i'm just going to upgrade my PC's ram and soundcard and then get HL 1 and 2. I am currently using an e-machines i got for free due to a best buy warrantly loophole... its a Intel Celeron CPU 2.70 GHz, 256 mb of Ram...
I think it meets minimum requirements, but i don't think it would look very good. What to you think?
I think it's amusing how, now that we're done getting off-topic in the other thread, we so easily do the same in this one.
I can't say whether or not it'll work well without also knowing your video card. That said, HL2 is going to seriously stress your system no matter what card you have, so I'd recommend trying out someone else's copy on his machine before purchasing the game, just to get a feel for how it runs.
Certainly the RAM upgrade is desperately needed for this game, and I'm willing to bet you'll want a better video card as well.
Posts: 293 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I'll second Bek on the Half-Life 2 recommendation. This is immersive (yet oddly narrative) gaming at its best.
And as long as we are now fully off-topic here, is anyone excited for Battlefield 2? I want to simultaneously explode and sing The Battle Hymn of the Republic.
Posts: 28 | Registered: May 2005
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>>I would love to be a game developer, but besides a pretty solid grounding in the concepts that make a good game and lots of project planning experience, I have no relevant skills.<<
I'll vouch for Tom's capacity for knowing what makes a good game-- he has yet to recommend one that I haven't liked.
And he's a hard worker, a real team player, a leader. . . He's just, frankly, one of the most talentedly brilliant and charitable people alive.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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I'm with you, Bill. BF1942 was awesome fun for LAN gaming. Used to get some sweet games going at the local LAN gaming center when we could pry everybody away from CS. Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Hey there, Counter-Strike deserves some non-eye-rolling respect as well, Mr. Tick (if that is your real name). Talk about a game that has exceeded anyones' wildest expectations for PC multiplayer possibilities. It is the single most played PC/MP game in the world.
Discuss: The simplicity and transparent gameplay of Counter-Strike allows the multi-faceted nature of interpersonal relationships to influence the experience, giving what could be considered a relatively mundane game unpredictable (and addictively fascinating) complexities.
...
Also - ever play the garage version of BF1942 entitled Desert Combat? Same gameplay, but now you can fly Blackhawks, drive Hummers, and fire modern weaponry. I think it ended up being much more popular than the original game it was built on.
Posts: 28 | Registered: May 2005
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I love CS, it's just that is ALL they young punks ever wanted to play. Come on, try something new! I'd go in with my friends and want to play BF1942 or UT2k4 but all the kids there would look scared if I suggested them to close CS and try something else.
edit: HA! Prove me wrong...just checked the site, there are six people there playing JEDI ACADEMY! Why haven't I been going lately??
Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote: I love CS, it's just that is ALL they young punks ever wanted to play. Come on, try something new! I'd go in with my friends and want to play BF1942 or UT2k4 but all the kids there would look scared if I suggested them to close CS and try something else.
It's like the modern RPG scene. Show up with Deadlands or CoC and you might find a few takers, but everybody's always willing to play D&D3E. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Completely off topic, of course, but Tom, if you decide to run a PBeM game of either of those two I'd be very interested in playing.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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On the topic of multiplayer games, my absolute favorite is one that probably none of you have ever played. It was developed and released by Microsoft back in 1999 (or maybe 2000; can't remember for sure), won editor's choice all over the place, and promptly disappeared into obscurity. It remains the only major project I'm aware of ever to be open-sourced by Microsoft, and still today is being maintained by the fan community.
Allegiance combines first-person space fighter combat simulation with real-time strategy and an emphasis on team-based gameplay that I have found to be completely unrivaled ever since. There are multiple modes of play, but the most common, Conquest, goes something like this:
Teams are formed, numbering between two and six. Teams can grow to include very large numbers of people; I've played in games that had over a hundred people playing spread out over just two teams.
Each team selects one person to be its Commander. That person is expected to concoct the overall strategy that his team will use to win the game, and in the process manage resources, research technologies, and provide players with the equipment and ships they need to keep fighting.
Optionally, the rest of the players can group together into "wings." Wings allow the commander to address groups of players rather than having to choose between individuals or the entire team, and can easily be assigned to different duties, including scouting, strike, defense, and bombing.
In game, the commander typically oversees the progress of the match via a real-time strategy interface. Via this interface, he can direct AI units (such as builders and resource-gatherers) as well as the players themselves, issuing orders as you might expect to in, say, StarCraft. The commander can see everything that the rest of the team can see, and also dedicates funds towards researching the technology tree, building bases, or purchasing bombers for his pilots to fly. In a pinch, the commander can hop in the cockpit to defend bases or personally lead a strike team, but this is generally frowned upon, as it limits his ability to monitor the overall situation.
The rest of the team pilots fighter craft, which are individually configurable for whatever needs the pilot may have. This is done through your typical flight sim interface, viewed from the cockpit, with mostly standard joystick controls and the like. Fighters, scouts, bombers, and capital ships can all be configured by the pilot to suit the situation (for instance, the pilot might choose to take extra probes on an initial scouting mission, or pack extra missiles for later in the game). Alternately, if one pilot is taking out a bomber or a capital ship, other pilots can climb aboard that ship to man the turret guns.
In the event that a team becomes unsatisfied with its commander, it can even stage a coup and entrust authority to another player on the team.
Both aspects of the game (RTS and flight sim) are very well implemented, but because it is so involved and relies so heavily on cooperative team play, the learning curve is very steep. To help with this, the community has set up a number of "newbie" servers where players new to the game can learn together.
If you have the time to commit to it, I highly recommend trying it out. It's free, open-source, and a lot of fun.
Posts: 293 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Marcelarrow: I read an article in a gaming magazine a while ago that said that Testing is an entry level position to become a programmer or other higher up.
My stepfather started out testing video games about 6 or 7 years ago (at least, maybe longer), and now, he has moved up in the gaming world to be a Quality Assurance manager.
There seems to be a lot of other people who wish to play video games all day and get paid for it, so the job market is highly competitive. Good luck acquiring a Testing job.
If you are working on the skills that you need to be a programmer or developer, then a testing job might help you meet people in the industry who may be able to assist you in finding programming or developing work. However, if you are just spending your days and nights playing video games, a testing job might eventually lead to a position supervising other testers and that would be about it.
Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2005
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See theres my problem, Anastasia. Frankly, i don't want to be a tester, because i don't want to 'play games for a living'. Like you said, the job market is too competitive. There are too many people who want to design and code and test games. I'm quite happy where i am, making fun games for fun, and making some money doing side projects. But, i have to go to college, and i'll probably major in computer science, just like (almost) everyone else. From there? Who knows.
Games i'm playing now: well im trying out Space Empires Iv, which i think Bek recommended. Its got a steep learning curve but it's pretty fun.
I'm also playing Gunbound (www.softnyx.net) right now. Its a massive online game also completely free. Its a lot like Worms, if you've ever played it. Really addictive and fun.
Haven't tried Counterstrike, but its really popular wherever i go.
Posts: 27 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Here's a "let's get back on topic" bump. Anybody else on the forum with game-design experience want to share how they arrived?
Posts: 28 | Registered: May 2005
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I agree, sorry to bring anything off topic here. But it was MORE off-topic in the other topic.
Well, here's how i got into game-design (as amateur as it is). I used to visit flaslh game websites, and like most gamers, i had a suddle, but fleeting urge to learn how to make games. Then, one day at ye olde skatepark, i broke my arm. You don't really have freetime until you've injured yourself. So i downloaded a free trial of flash, and started teaching myself. Pretty soon i made connections with very popular flash artists and designers and started learning more and more. The first game i released on Newgrounds (ok, i know its a pretty immature site, among other things, but its a start) got a first place award, and was featured for a week on the front page. It got a ton of exposure and i got a lot of encouragement to do more stuff. So i do. People get word that i can use flash, and i get jobs making ads and features for websites. Technically, i've never been paid to make a GAME, but i've had offers, but i doubt i'll go very far with just flash. But i've learn almost all i'll need to know to be an animator.
Posts: 27 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Actually, that's a pretty good start, if you're more into design than implementation. As long as you understand enough about how games are made, you can make design documents that programmers and artists can follow. A background in programming/computer science isn't necessarily needed to design a good game... but it will be of great help in getting people to take your designs seriously.
Posts: 293 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote: A background in programming/computer science isn't necessarily needed to design a good game... but it will be of great help in getting people to take your designs seriously.
Exactly. I don't wanna run into the office with a 50 page document screaming about my awesome idea for a game with killer cyborg robots and jet fighter planes that transform into helgast natzi ninjas from the fifth Reich. (no one steal my idea!)
quote:Originally posted by Pathos Bill: Here's a "let's get back on topic" bump. Anybody else on the forum with game-design experience want to share how they arrived?
Ask me again in a 1.5 years or so. Right now I'm looking into internships as a possible gateway, although most developers don't seem to have internship programs availble unfortunately. Posts: 20 | Registered: May 2005
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Of course their aren't any internships. Its way too competitive right now. Also, i read that its good to have a GOOD portfolio of things related to game design/art/programming. Makes you look a lot better to companies.
Posts: 27 | Registered: Jun 2005
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