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"Under new law being considered, the federal government would require that every child in America undergo psychological screening and receive recommended treatment, including drug therapies."
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The traditional values bit confused me as well. I guess his point is that "normal" behavior is based on the norms of society, and if a person's values are not in line with the current trends, they are not healthy?
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"TRI points out that some U.S. states have already moved to implement recommendations by the New Freedom Commission on Mental Health. For example, the Illinois legislature has passed a plan to screen the mental health of all pregnant women and all children up to 18 years of age. Under this plan, which also includes the use of antidepressant drugs, children and adults will be screened for so-called "mental illness" during their routine physical examinations."
So, what happens if the pregnant women don't "pass" the test?
From this article, it sounds a bit like NCLB, where states come up ith their own plan.
Some opponents are making the point that drug comapanies are behind this plan, so more medication is purchased.
Still, I cannot find the origianl document, or any objective source.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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For those that don't know - we were concerned that my child was being seen by the counselor and that some things were being asked that might indicate the counselor had concerns about our daughter - though no one from the school had ever contacted us about such a thing or asked permission to have our daughter screened or anything.
After a very good conversation with the school counselor, we found out that it was a routine thing where she talks to all the first graders one on one to introduce herself and check on things of concern that might be happening at school - like bullying and such.
Once we knew that, we were okay with it, though I still think they should have let me know what was going on, and not let me try to figure it out through the reports of a seven year old, who was concerned that she was in some kind of trouble because she got sent to the counsellor's office.
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Even when kids are obviously in need of therapy, I would still be horrified if we went through with testing without parent consent.
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I'll agree to mandatory government-sponsored counseling/testing of my child when every elected and appointed government official undergoes a similar evaluation.
Not before.
I mean, really, we had a man in charge of the Justice Department who was bothered by naked statues, for crying out loud. Let's get real people. Is this a government that should be trusted setting standards for sanity?
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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Yeah, I'm concerned that parents could be forced into a choice between giving their kids meds which may or may not be needed or facing charges for medical neglect.
As someone who was forced to take meds I didn't really need for years and which messed up my body and mind until I was able to get clear of them, it's a big worry for me.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Can I be in charge of prescribing the mandatory drug therapies for the politicians? Please? I promise they won't ALL be prescribed cyanide, honest. The ones that have at least a little bit of brain for it to work on will get psilocybin!
--Enigmatic (if nothing else, C-Span would be more fun to watch)
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That is one o the things bothering me about this. There just isn't too much info on it when, to me, it is a huge issue.
There are some children I have worked with who did very well on medication. They had some really serious issues. However, some kids also did well in our alternative ed. program, which was individualized and allowed more movement and creativity than they could get in a mainstream classroom.
So, to me, this reeks of saving money, and reminds me of an infamous quote from John Silber, a frightening Democratic candidate for governor of Mass, which was, to paraphrase: "Let's put hearing aids on those kids and get them back into the classroom."
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One of my profs from college, the school for one of his sons gave the kid an IQ test without his permission. This prof is also a licensed psychologist and was on the licensing board at the time it happened.
It's insane. No tests or interviews of the mental health sort should ever be done on kids without their parents permission.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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If the population is drugged up, who's to know what else is going on?
EDIT: Exactly what requires drugs... where do you stop? Someone who's very shy? Very outgoing? Very dumb? Very bright?
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I think people may be confusing two quite distinct issues: (1) would this program lead to more over-medication of kids? and (2) should parents have total control over their mental health care?
I am not very certain about the answer to either question, but we shouldn't lump them together into the same issue. They're not.
From the article:
quote:This bill protects the fundamental right of parents to direct and control the upbringing and education of their children.
A lot of people make statements like this as if they're common sense.
For my part, I consider it a great ethical mystery whether parents have such a fundamental right, and if so, where it comes from. Legally, it comes from the parents' status as the guardians of their children. Biologically, it comes from a natural desire to bring success to our progeny. But I don't see the ethical reason why parents, or anyone, should have such extensive control over what sort of a person the child will become.
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quote: Yeah, I'm concerned that parents could be forced into a choice between giving their kids meds which may or may not be needed or facing charges for medical neglect
Hey, it already happens. One reason (not the only one, of course) we have pretty much decided never to send Livvie to school is the fear that we will be pressured to medicate her.And she's not dangerous, just ADHD. I can't tell you how many people in my homeschool group started their kids in the schools, then pulled them when they were pressured to medicate them.
Posts: 2711 | Registered: Mar 2004
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It is a tough pressure, too. I have seen a lot of bullying, particularly of parents who are not educated.(edit to add completely trusting that the school is out for the best interest of their child) So, what this bill seems to be is inclusive. But you can;t be included unless you behave THIS way. And you need this medication for us to believe that you will be able to.
On the other hand, I have worked with kids who tell me how much easier it is to learn with medication.
So, while I see both sides of the medication coin, I do NOT see a situation where a parent doesn't get to have a say in the matter.
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When I first read the title of the article, I forgot just how easily a good idea can go wrong when the government is involved.
I would absolutely support any program that encourages identification of mental health problems amongst children, teens, and young adults.
However, this program seems to be created to weed out "problem children" and medicate them into submission. Its obviously not being done because anyone cares about the mental health of the younger generation.
The plan then would be to identify those who are desruptive and ignore the quiet children whose shyness may be a result of molestation, depression, etc. And since medication is cheaper and easier than counseling, I can see the suicide rate climbing as I type.
I support helping children learn study methods or behavior that lets them stay in their school with their mainstream classmates. I support increased counseling since we're living in an age where suicide is as much a concern and under-age drinking or young drivers. I think it would be wonderful if schools could help children who are living in households where their mental illnesses would be ignored by irresponsible parents.
But getting the government involved...that makes be alittle nervous.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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I was forced to take medication I knew and said repeatedly that I didn't need as a child/adolescent. I know there are many it helps. But I also saw, in the residential placement I ended up in senior year, young people medicated because they were gay and their parents didn't like it, because they were bored in classes well below their ability level but parents and teachers were too apathetic to challenge them, and because they had been in foster and residential care so long they were starting to think that medication was normal and asked for it, even though they didn't really need it. The "counseling" that went on was often not helpful or conducive to actual therapy, especially as everything we said was reported back to staff and parents. We were punished for refusing medication. Sure, a lot of kids really did better on meds. But a lot had horrible problems caused by possibly excessive and sometimes ineffective or even inappropriate meds, including 9 girls-- 9 out of 30, between the ages of 12 and 18!-- who ended up with PCOS, most probably as a result of a medication. (This medication has been linked to PCOS, and is not recommended for children under 18 to begin with, and it is highly recommended that a risk assessment be done for all women between the ages of 12 and 26 to make sure the risks of the medication are outweighed by the benefits.) Although many of these meds can cause liver problems, only a small percentage of residents taking said medications were actually tested monthly for liver function, and we who were were tested mostly by outside doctors who our parents took us to.
Although we were informed of "rights" as required by law, we were rarely allowed to exercise said rights. When we tried, we were either punished, hindered, or simply denied our request. Some of the DCFS kids got lucky and actually had a worker who made time to see them every few months and answer their calls, and perhaps was willing to advocate for them a little, and so had a slightly freer exercise, but not much. I learned how to work the system and learned my rights and made sure to let people know very clearly what I intended to do if my needs were not met or they violated my rights (not in a threatening way, but in a reasoned, logical way, making use of their own bureaucratic language) and had long since learned to compartmentalize the part of my brain that was unbalanced by the strange chemicals being introduced into my body, and so did okay. Actually, it was good to be in a place where consequences were straightforward and logical and I was away from my mother's micromanaging (which was of a completely different type than the stuff they did.) But as a result, I am deeply mistrustful of doctors who prescribe psychotropic meds to kids without a darned good reason (such as, for instance, schizophrenia, or REAL ADHD, or depression that has not responded to other therapy-- and this should be for only as long as needed, with the goal to wean the kid off the drugs as soon as possible, etc.)
I would like to see some work done on children's rights before we start making kids undergo state-mandated screening and treatment.
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I'm uncomfortable with the possible ramifications of this bill. However, I was diagnosed with depression during high school because one of my teachers noticed and sent me to the counselor, who recommended that I see a psychologist. Yes, I'm taking antidepressants now. However, while it was explained to me that I had depression and would most likely need medication, I do not think I was coerced, and I would not have appreciated it if I were. In fact, I would have possibly objected to being treated if I thought the school was trying to force it on me.
I'm sure my parents would have figured it out quickly enough, but I'm glad that it was caught early. The drugs were a miracle for me. Sometimes I think I can understand what it's like to have a conversion experience--the change was that drastic.
I guess I'm saying that schools should get involved if a student is showing signs of serious mental illness, but they should be careful to avoid abusing this ability. Screening everyone makes it way too easy to medicate unnecessarily and trample the rights of the student and parent.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Shanna, you said what I am thinking perfectly. I really love that about Hatrack! If I wait long enough, it usually happens.
An old interview with Tom Cruise and Matt Lauer was on the other night. It was about Ritalin. He was absurd. I was embarrassed for him.
Ketchupqueen, I am very sorry for your experience. I have heard of some horrid group homes. However, I have also worked in some very good ones, so be assured that there are excellent programs out there, and that most people who work with children do have their best interests at heart.
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quote:However, this program seems to be created to weed out "problem children" and medicate them into submission. Its obviously not being done because anyone cares about the mental health of the younger generation
I got this from it too.
Posts: 2711 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:I have heard of some horrid group homes. However, I have also worked in some very good ones, so be assured that there are excellent programs out there, and that most people who work with children do have their best interests at heart.
I know that, and think that the program was actually pretty good; it was just a few people in the mix who were rotten. (This was a larger place than most group homes; when you have that many people on staff, there are bound to be a few bad ones.) Unfortunately, all the psychiatrists and psychologists I meant, and several of the administrators, were among the ones on power trips. The state of the DCFS in CA did not help. (Although, bad as it can be, I hear it's worse in TX.) My problems with psychiatrists also began long before that. Anyone who would take my mother's word that I was manic and hospitalize me because I was laughing even though I was not displaying symptoms of mania at the time deserves something; I don't know what. Same for the psychiatrist who first prescribed anti-depressants for me on the basis of what my mother said my teacher said, without ever talking to me alone. :|
My problems aren't with the homes themselves so much (although my brother was in an awful one where they wouldn't give him his inhaler when he had an asthma attack, and ignored the fact that some of the boys had knives; but that was not a typical experience) as the assumption that if a child is on medication, even if he keeps saying that he doesn't need it and doesn't like what it's doing to his body, and that the side effects are unacceptable, especially for something he doesn't feel he needs, that he's just being uncooperative and "oppositional", and that doctors always know better than children when children need medication.
When I turned 18, I weaned myself off, and was told that if I kept refusing part of my medication (eventually all), my mother was going to be informed. I informed them that she would not, since I was now 18 and legally allowed to decide on my own treatment. Long story short, I've been a lot happier without the meds. But I feel horrible for people like my brother, who now truly can't function without meds that probably weren't right for them in the first place, and have lost most early memory and have physical side effects as a result. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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That is so sad, KQ, and not as rare as you might think.
I do not want to sound snarky at all, but it sounds like the best therapy you had in that situation was time away from your mom.
What was your dad's role in this situation?
It really burns my biscuits that it is assumed that the mother is the obvious choice as the parent to have custody. We want men to take more of a role in parenting, but then slap them in the face left and right. (sorry, sideline rant)
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I love my mom. But I love her more when I'm not living with her. It took a few years to forgive what she did to me. The Church has helped; being involved makes me feel more confident that I'm a good person (and my husband doesn't hurt, either.) As I'm more confident in myself, I'm more able to see her clearly and appreciate the good. At least she loves me. And being a mother has made me realize that we all want to be perfect parents, and none of us are. What she did was not done in malice toward me.
My dad. Well, my parents lied about each other in court. A lot. I don't know exactly what went on, but I know there were false accusations of abuse on both sides; I figured that out by age 7. (And tried to protect my brother as much as I could, but that's another story.) When I was 11, I was informed that I would no longer see my dad at all; hopefully (at least my dad said hopefully), it would be only temporary. I was very upset about this (which led to my mom taking me to the doctor who first medicated me, without ever talking to me alone.) I had learned years earlier not to trust the therapists my mom made me see, because anything I said would be relayed to her and come back to haunt me. I read psych books in the library to learn what the questions they asked me meant and how to give an answer that wouldn't be used against me or my dad. (It helped some, but not enough.)
Anyway, I digress. After two years of my mom's obfuscation, the court finally ordered one hour of monitored visitation once a week, at a set time and place (a Jack In the Box; I rarely go in there now), which was supposed to be a temporary measure, and which is usually transitional back to full visitation. (It lasted until I was 18; actually, after that for my brother.) My dad was not even allowed to do more than say "hi" and leave if we ran into him at the store or library or something. He had no say in decisions related to us, even though he was supposed to have some. I was not allowed to go near his house, which was about four blocks over and five blocks down from my mom's. When my brother was put into his first group home, I noted that they routinely denied him visitation if he "lost the priviledge of going home for the weekend". When I was at the admission interview for the placement I ended up in, therefore, and was told that the first couple of weeks I would not be allowed to go home, I said, "But I have court-ordered visitation with my father every Sunday." The director looked at my mom (who did NOT look pleased) and asked if this was true. She said (after looking like she was trying to decide whether or not to lie in front of me) yes, so they said she would need to bring a copy of the court order, and I heaved a sigh of relief. At least I wouldn't lose ALL contact with my dad.
Of course, that first Saturday, I asked how I was going to get to my visit the next day, and the supervisor of the girls' dorm looked blank. It took three hours of phone calls to get a copy of that order out of my mom, but when they did, I was allowed to see him. For one hour a week. With a monitor (whom I loved; her one of her kid's the kid in Spy Kids, and he made all the kids at my wedding's day by taking pictures with them). At a specific Jack in the Box (or as my sister says, "Yack in the Crack". There are only so many weeks in a row you can eat the same fast food.)
So, that's the story of where my dad was. A few days after I graduated, I moved in with him. Living with him wasn't a walk in the park, but it helped me rebuild our relationship some, and gave me a better chance to forgive my mom.
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That is such a sad story. It is amazing what it is possible for a person to forgive. I am glad you were able to keep your parents in your life.
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This prof is also a licensed psychologist and was on the licensing board at the time it happened.![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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