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Either I couldn't get the spelling right, or the thread is gone...this will have to do.
Q: After completing a year-long class in Basic Judaism, I feel qualified enough to give a four minute informational speech on an aspect of this religion. I am asking for some opinions as to what you think about a few I have in mind:
1.) Judaism vs. Christianity (a brief comparison on the basic belief systems regarding the afterlife, etc.)
2.) Shabbat (I can borrow or buy some great props for this one-including challah-yum!)
3.) Prayer (Orthodox)
Now, I realize these topics could take years to truely explain but this is just for a Speech class, that for the most part, has no prior knowledge of Judaism.
Your opinion, as well as anyone else's would be greatly appreciated.
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To be honest, out of those three topics, prayer is the one I know the least about. My Hebrew isn't very good either. Posts: 2064 | Registered: Dec 2003
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As a non-Jew who knows a bit about Judaism, I think Shabbat might be the most interesting to look into - partly because it's a concept that people beginning to find out about Judaism can find a little strange. The bit on Shabbat in Herman Wouk's "This is my God" is really clear and well-expressed. Rivka, did you recommend him to me? I am sure that someone did but I can't remember if it was you or one of my rl friends!
Posts: 1550 | Registered: Jun 1999
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While reading this, I had several questions and observations.
In every movie I've ever seen that involved Judaism and the ritual of lighting the candles 18 minutes before sunset, I've never seen the second part of that, which is the "brief evening service." And to be honest, usually when I've seen the lighting of the candles, it has been dark outside, so the fact that it is 18 minutes before sunset would have surprised me if I hadn't read some of rivka's thread.
My main question is about the use of electricity. Combustion engines can't be used for obvious reasons. I even understand about the refrigerator light. But isn't the refrigerator itself running on electricity? And the stove in which the next day's meal is being prepared? Or is it the fact that that the "fire" was started before Shabbat started that is important? How would the use of an electric car be seen? I mean, it would be using the same type of energy as the stove or the refrigerator, but it would be transporting an object into the public domain. But I wonder, do all Jews live within walking distance of their temple? I would think urban sprawl has really hurt this effort.
I love the beauty of the whole thing though. I think that for Christians, the repeal of the Blue laws has been a bad thing, but as we are supposedly not a nation that endorses a specific religion, I understand why they were and not being religious myself, I'm kind of glad I can shop on Sundays. But, I still think it has been damaging to society. If Christians hadn't changed the Sabbath to Sunday instead of Saturday, I wonder if the Blue laws would have been repealed, as they would have been more multi-religious. (I don't know on what grounds they were overturned in the first place, so it may have nothing to do with the separation of church and state.)
(Also, rivka, if you answered this stuff in your thread, sorry. I read lots of it, but haven't read all of it.)
But, I would also be interested in either topic 1 or 2, but would lean toward 2 more.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Shabbos (and Kashrus, for that matter), are the two observances that (in my opinion) have served to keep the Jews distinct over the millenia. They are ancient practices that are still rigorously upheld today. My (Orthodox Jewish) kid can't fully participate in, say, the Boy Scouts or our township athletic programs because both have activities on Saturdays. Fortunately, Shabbos observance is common enough in my neck of the woods, and there are Scout groups and sports leagues that are Shabbos observant. Similarly, we can't eat at non-kosher (i.e. just about ALL) restaurants, or parties, or friend's (and even family's) houses.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote: How would the use of an electric car be seen? I mean, it would be using the same type of energy as the stove or the refrigerator, but it would be transporting an object into the public domain.
Religious orthodoxy does not allow this on shabbat.
And for what you said about cooking, the fire WAS started before shabbat, which is the important thing. There's a traditional Jewish dish called cholent, that works on this idea. It cooks for 24 hours, so you put it in friday evening, before shabbat comes in, and then you can have a hot meal the next day.
Val, I like the Shabbat idea too. That would make for an interesting presentation.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Why did that make you angry adam? (assuming the angry smiley was not an accident)
Val herself is a non-jew who has been to many services. She was always welcomed and invited to come to more events...
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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Or how about kashrus? I know a lot of non-Jews are interested in it, and most of them are baffled by the symbols on the food they buy in the supermarket. My cousin is a mashgiach, and he has tons of interesting stories.
Posts: 289 | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:If Christians hadn't changed the Sabbath to Sunday instead of Saturday,
The question of whether Chirstians "changed" the Sabbath to Sunday is actually very complicated. The Catholic Church does not teach that this is what happened. The Sabbath is considered part of the Law that is no longer applicable. Sunday was picked as a day of worship because it coincides with the Ressurrection. It has some similarities to Sabbath, but many, many differences.
However, some denominations do teach that Sunday worship is a direct descendent or replacement of Sabbath. I don't know what the common Protestant teaching is or how denomination-specific it is.
Of course, there are also Christian denominations who worship on Saturday instead.
In short, it's a very complicated manner. And, of course, your question doesn't depend on whatever the actual distinction is.
quote: But isn't the refrigerator itself running on electricity?
I know this one after appliance shopping.
When someone opens the refrigerator, they often increase the tempature enough to trigger the thermostat to start the compressor running. This means the direct action of the person started the electircity going.
Sabbath-compliant refrigerators use a timer instead of a thermostat during the Sabbath. That way, there is no direct connection between the person's action and the electricity starting. That's the distinction.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I'll just tell you what one Gentile (and Christian) would like to hear about:
* Meditating on Hashem. I was looking through a book, but I didn't understand enough to know if Jews do the same sort of prayer as (Protestant) Christians, or what they intend from it. Maybe it's different.
* Guilt and forgiveness. What the dark side does; how to overcome it. Forgiving other people (Christians say it's essential, some Jews at least say it's not, for sufficiently serious offenses.) I was asking a few Jews about this, but so the saying goes, ask 2 Jews, get 3 opinions!
* I would be interested in the differences in Judaism and Christianity, but it might be hard to do this in a non-confrontational way. If you're up to it, that would be cool.
Posts: 1877 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:But I wonder, do all Jews live within walking distance of their temple?
My old synagogue had a room downstairs with several sofas that pulled out into beds, for out-of-towners and those who simply lived too far away. I suspect that sort of facility is fairly common in Orthodox synagogues.
Posts: 650 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote: The reason Christians no longer have a custom of worshiping on the Sabbath is because there is no commandment to do so. The practice of attending the synagogue every Sabbath did not originate in the Bible, it originated in the Babylonian Captivity. The Jews in captivity invented the synagogue as an institution to preserve their heritage and their religion in a foreign land and that is when they began the custom of weekly synagogue attendance.
There's a timeline in there, but I think the key difference doctrinally speaking is that it's not an alteration of the Sabbath, but a replacement for it.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote: The bit on Shabbat in Herman Wouk's "This is my God" is really clear and well-expressed. Rivka, did you recommend him to me?
Since I haven't read anything by him, I think I can safely assume that I can't take credit.
quote: In every movie I've ever seen that involved Judaism and the ritual of lighting the candles 18 minutes before sunset, I've never seen the second part of that, which is the "brief evening service." And to be honest, usually when I've seen the lighting of the candles, it has been dark outside, so the fact that it is 18 minutes before sunset would have surprised me if I hadn't read some of rivka's thread.
I recommend that you not get me started on Hollywood's absolute lack of . . . *sputters* . . . well, let's just say I've been known to launch into 30-minute diatribes on The Frisco Kid alone, and leave it at that. Not that it should be surprising that the movies get these things wrong; many other cultures and religions show up greatly distorted in movies as well.
quote: But isn't the refrigerator itself running on electricity?
Yes, but I don't (and cannot) do anything on Shabbos to cause that to happen. Dags is wrong on this one. Opening a refrigerator does NOT cause a direct result, but an indirect one -- at least, assuming the bulb has been removed or otherwise disabled. (Yes, there are people who buy "Shabbos refrigerators" that are even more indirect, but most Orthodox Jews I know consider them unnecessary.)
quote: And the stove in which the next day's meal is being prepared?
No cooking on Shabbos, although as Raia mentioned, things can be left cooking from beforehand (WITH certain measures taken).
Electricity is actually fairly complex. All (Orthodox) agree that its use (or more correctly, turning something on or off) is forbidden on Shabbos; there is a fair amount of debate as to precisely why (fire (electrical sparks)? building (closing circuits)? something else?).
quote: But I wonder, do all Jews live within walking distance of their temple?
Orthodox Jews wouldn't call a synagogue a temple, but they would live near it. ("Near" can mean a couple miles.) If there isn't one close enough, get at least ten men together in someone's living room, and voilà !
quote: (Also, rivka, if you answered this stuff in your thread, sorry. I read lots of it, but haven't read all of it.)
Eh, don't worry about it. It's a long thread, and I rarely mind a chance to yammer.
quote: I should have noted that I have no general objection to non-Jews showing up to services. I've brought them myself on more than one occasion.
Thanks for clarifying, adam! (I was very surprised by the earlier post.)
quote: Guilt and forgiveness. What the dark side does; how to overcome it. Forgiving other people (Christians say it's essential, some Jews at least say it's not, for sufficiently serious offenses.) I was asking a few Jews about this, but so the saying goes, ask 2 Jews, get 3 opinions!
Forgiving someone IF they have asked for your forgiveness and demonstrated remorse (and made any necessary compensation) is indeed required by Jewish law. However, forgiveness does not mean that they necessarily regain your trust. If someone steals from me, then returns the object and apologizes, I must forgive them. But I don't have to leave them alone with the cash register. (In fact, if I know that theft is a temptation for them, I am probably forbidden from leaving them alone with the register.)
Forgive, but protect yourself.
quote: My old synagogue had a room downstairs with several sofas that pulled out into beds, for out-of-towners and those who simply lived too far away. I suspect that sort of facility is fairly common in Orthodox synagogues.
Actually, I've never heard of that! It's far more common (in my experience) to have congregants put up out-of-town visitors in their homes.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Sorry about the temple wording instead of synagogue. Talk about your major brain farts. I know that. I have no idea why I put in temple. Weird.
So, does this also mean that you don't have to do dishes on the Sabbath? That would be wicked cool. (I ask because of the not laboring, "nor your manservant, or your maidservant. " And since I figure the maidservant was the one cleaning the dishes, then dishes shouldn't be done. But that would be kind of dangerous. . . leaving dirty dishes around for at least 24 hours.
So, to sum up. Not having to do the dishes - cool.
Having dirty dishes around - not cool.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Sorry about the temple wording instead of synagogue. Talk about your major brain farts. I know that. I have no idea why I put in temple. Weird.
I was clarifying, not offended.
quote: So, does this also mean that you don't have to do dishes on the Sabbath? That would be wicked cool. (I ask because of the not laboring, "nor your manservant, or your maidservant. " And since I figure the maidservant was the one cleaning the dishes, then dishes shouldn't be done. But that would be kind of dangerous. . . leaving dirty dishes around for at least 24 hours.
So, to sum up. Not having to do the dishes - cool.
Having dirty dishes around - not cool.
Well, can't turn on the hot water, so that makes doing dishes difficult. If I needed a dish, I could wash one (cold water, stiff-bristled brush instead of a sponge). Otherwise, I rinse off the worst of it, and then put the dishes in the dishwasher (when possible) or in a dish basin. Some people let them soak in soapy water.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Dags is wrong on this one. Opening a refrigerator does NOT cause a direct result, but an indirect one -- at least, assuming the bulb has been removed or otherwise disabled. (Yes, there are people who buy "Shabbos refrigerators" that are even more indirect, but most Orthodox Jews I know consider them unnecessary.)
Ah, well, that's what I get for extrapolating from manufacturers' material.
quote:· The defrost cycle is not controlled by door openings. The defrost cycle runs on fixed clock time. · Ice and water cannot be retrieved from the dispenser · The main temperature control and Quick Chill™/ Express Chill™ displays will not illuminate. · Quick Chill and temperature settings will remain at temperatures set before Sabbath Mode · Touchpad sensors will not tone · Door alarms will not operate · The icemaker is automatically disabled (bottom freezer models only; icemakers in side-by-side models will continue to operate unless the icemaker power switch is set to off) · Interior lights and dispenser lights will not operate · Current fan state will continue as current regardless of door opening
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You may light candles whenever you like. Say the bracha without God's names (substituting "adoshem" and "elokeinu" is what is most commonly done). Kiddush is similar. Just substitute almost-names for the real names (non Hebrew-speakers are unlikely to be able to tell the difference anyway).
Now repeat after me: shah-BISS. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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*pulls up desk and chair* *puts on learning cap(which ironically looks a lot like a kippah *
*Ahem* shah-BISS.
So, I'm thinking my attention getter would be to light candles and explain the kiddush and other props: wine, chalah...
Posts: 2064 | Registered: Dec 2003
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No, no, not shah-BISS. The accent is on the first syllable -- SHAH-biss.
Although to some, that pronounciation is hopelessly old-fashioned and old-country.
In MY crowd, it is quite the rage to be hopelessly old-fashioned and old-country, so SHAH-biss is the pronounciation that I use and that the folks in my shul use.
The more modern (i.e. Israeli) pronounciation is "shah-BAHT". It telegraphs more than you'd think how you greet someone on a Saturday morning: "Good SHAH-biss" = old school Orthodox, "Shah-BAHT Shah-LOAM" = Zionist, or Modern Orthodox, or not Orthodox at all, but still Jewish.
And don't get me started on what a guy's kippah communicates!
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On the Sabbath... Mormons observe whatever day is most likely to allow them to rest in the community where they live (and by rest, I actually mean give service to the church ) In Muslim countries, it's Friday, in Israel I imagine it would be Saturday. Unfortunately, I don't know of individual cases where it has been accepted for a person to consider Wednesday the sabbath because that is the only day they have off work.
Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Oh my goodness! I've just been calling it "the challah cover" and "the challah board". I didn't know that there was a special name!
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Yikes, my speech is tomorrow and while I'm perfectly capable of giving a play-by-play of Shabbos, I don't feel I've conveyed the "essence" of the holiday.
With an imcomplete introduction and a non-existent conclusion, my speech is far from done. I'd love some advice to help fill in the gaps. Please take into consideration that this class knows little to nothing about Judaiam.
I'll email it to anyone for the asking.
Posts: 2064 | Registered: Dec 2003
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rivka, dana, please let me know if you don't get the outline in about 10 minutes. Gmail has been giving me problems and sometimes won't send the file.
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And I got three wrong!
