posted
*whispers* Folks (not steven), please tell me what about anything I've said has anything to do with what steven has said. What was it I said that made him compare me to Osama Bin Laden? The faith comment? Was there something politically incorrect in that? Was it offensive? (I'll apologize if it was, but I really am confused.)
What was it I said that made him think someone is comparing Catholocism to Mormonism? Please, clue me in. I'm baffled.
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I gave up on the microcluster comments because I'm still refining my views. As far as Price finding that diet influenced crookedness of teeth, I kind of thought that had been decided.
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quote:As far as Price finding that diet influenced crookedness of teeth, I kind of thought that had been decided.
We know that's what you thought. It's why most of us decided that further discussion was pointless, because you couldn't see why others might not think it was decided.
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posted
I believe it had been decided that 1. The scanty evidence was inconclusive, and 2. There is no proven connection between health and straight teeth.
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This is how ninjas apply... I was comparing your seeming sensitivity to the anecdote about the ninja killing a town because someone dropped a spoon.
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posted
I have come to the conclusion that steven is mildly mentally deficient. I'm sure he's functional and literate, but he seems completely unable to understand logic and reason. He also seems to be caught up in some kind of fantasy world he's created. I've never met anyone like that before and seen them discuss any subjedt at length, so it is interesting.
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1. The sudden increase in height from 1st generation to 2nd generation Chinese
2. the better health and strength of the shorter Dinka, versus the taller (over 7 feet, in many cases) Masai
We showed that
a. taller isn't always healthier, and
b. diet has a large effect on skeletal structre.
If a and b are true, I think it's maybe, considering Pottenger's work with cats, not that far a jump to assume that diet can have a large effect horizontally as well as vertically on skeletal structure. I thought we decided this. Am I confused?
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posted
Jon Boy--if you didn't think I was right after you read the link about the Dinka and Masai, you could have kept going. I took the fact that you gave up as a sign that I had convinced you.
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posted
We decided, I believe, that it was plausible, but that no rigorous statistical analysis had been done that would determine if the two were correlated, much less one caused the others.
It was your refusal to recognize this that made most everyone give up.
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quote:Originally posted by steven: I took the fact that you gave up as a sign that I had convinced you.
This would be really funny except that I think steven might actually be telling the truth.
It's like something my Pappy used to say: "Don't try to teach engineering to a pig. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."
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posted
I'm not sure - he was "done with" the thread at one point after Jon Boy had made a particularly pointed barb about tautologies.
He may honestly remember that being what he took JB's silence as a sign for, but I doubt he actually did at the time.
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posted
Nobody has even bothered to read the links I made in the Price thread. If I post a link 2 times on the same discussion page, I assume that people read it. Here it is again:
posted
Don't apologize Dag. I contributed too and actually let myself get mad. Shame on me.
You guys were sweet to point out that I'm not like Osama Bin Laden and I appreciate the effort we all put in to logically discuss things. Seems like it doesn't work. *sigh*
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quote:Data points, data points. What are the odds?
The same odds that said, "Oxygen for preemies is a good thing." There was every reason to think so, and very well meaning, very smart doctors who gave preemies oxygen in an attempt to help them.
Until someone studied the data with statistical methods and realized that, actually, it causes blindness.
If I recall correctly, it was one of the incidents that led to general acceptance of epidemiological studies by the medical establishment.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Dag, I'm getting a little tired of the personal attracks.
I never thought, and you know it, that Jon Boy was convinced of the microcluster thing. I thought he was convinced that diet controls crookedness of teeth. You know that. What is with the cheating?
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posted
I know, I've been feeling the same way Bev. I read them about 18 months ago (when lovely Annie gave them to me for Christmas!) but I've forgotten a lot.
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posted
OK, I just got compared with people who made babies blind. That's beyond the pale. All I'm suggesting is that maybe a diet high in twinkies and McDonald's grain-fed beef burgers causes crooked teeth and other more serious health issues. If I were wrong, and the diet didn't work,
Screw it, I give. Dag isn't interested in the truth.
I just hope everybody else sees that he is being about as real as a 3-dollar bill on the Price issue.
If you don't see that, I was wasting my time talking about it anyway.
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I'm not. You have misrepresented Bob - willingly and unashamedly, and I didn't notice a timely apology. You were making a fairly unbelievable claim about Jon Boy, one I doubt any one else sees as supported by the evidence. I don't know that you thought he was convinced with respect to crookedness of teeth or that you thought he wasn't with respect to microclusters.
In short, it's terribly difficult to tell what you think because you don't seem to engage in honest discourse.
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quote:OK, I just got compared with people who made babies blind. That's beyond the pale.
No, you didn't get compared with people who made babies blind. A scientific mistake you made was compared to a scientific mistake made by doctors in the first half of the last century. It's a very famous incident, one taught to underscore the importance of statistical methods in epedemiological research.
In case you didn't know, the whole Price book is about epidemiological research. It's an absolutely appropos comparison. And the incident underscores the dangers inherent in lack of rigorous scientific analysis.
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If that's your standard then you must now acknowledge I did not, in fact, compare you to doctors who made babies blind.
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posted
Dag--I no longer think you're arguing the issues. You're coming after me as a person. I can't say that I haven't earned it on the overpopulation thread, but I deleted that thread. When you can forget that thread, I can forget your comparison of me to baby killers.
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quote:Dag--I no longer think you're arguing the issues. You're coming after me as a person. I can't say that I haven't earned it on the overpopulation thread, but I deleted that thread. When you can forget that thread, I can forget your comparison of me to baby killers.
Now we're up to baby killers? In point of fact, the doctors very likely saved most of those preemies' lives.
Why do you so often ignore the actual substantive responses to your content? I cited what is pretty much the landmark case relevant to the type of research being discussed, and somehow I did something wrong? I don't think so.
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Oh, and every Africa-raised black person I've ever met has perfect teeth and really nice cheekbones. That just isn't true for the twinkie-scarfers who grew up in the USA.
That kind of convinces me more than anything.
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quote:Originally posted by RoyHobbs: This discussion isn't going anywhere...
But, that Ninja site is the most hilarious thing I've seen in months!!!
Thanks Jim-Me!
*bows*
Narnia, would you like to continue discussion of Perelandra by e-mail perhaps? We can include people who were actually interested in the topic...
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posted
Dag--do you actually think that there are tons of crooked-toothed kids and teenagers dying left and right in every case in all these traditional tribes? Do you really believe that the crooked-toothed ones die out before adulthood? If that were true, why did ALL of Pottenger's deficiently fed cats die before reproducing in the 3rd generation, and ALL of his correctly-fed cats have perfect teeth and skeletons through the generations?
here's the Wiki:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pottenger
there are other pages on him, and the cat study.
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Of all the people on this thread I am the one most likely to ridicule you with personal attacks. As it is, I have abstained from any such comments because I'm afraid you'll take it as a compliment or proof that eating babies makes people smell better.
Dag is a freaking saint, believe me.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Please don't delete the thread - can y'all start over from before the derailment? I just got Perelandra in the mail a few weeks but haven't gotten around to reading it yet. This is very interesting.
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posted
If you're so intent on discussing cats and teeth and organ meat again, why don't you go start yet another thread about it? Heaven knows we haven't had enough.
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Someone commented that the responsibility of those who do God's will is to make the attempt - honestly and with full effort - and that no moral blame attaches for success or failure.
This has always been very comforting to me. Although I doubt I actually do give full effort whenever I should, this is something I can control (with God's help, of course). The idea could be taken too far and used to excuse inadequate attempts, but I think all moral principles can be used to justify immoral actions in some way or another.
quote:Ransom: I think he made one law of that kind [not to go to the islands] in order that there might be obedience. In all these other matters what you call obeying Him is but doing what seems good in your own eyes also. Is love content with that? You do them, indeed, because they are His will, but not only because they are His will. Where can you taste the joy of obeying unless He bids you do something for which His bidding is the only reason? ...
Lady: Oh, brave Piebald, this is the best you have said yet...We cannot walk out of Maleldil's will: but He has given us a way to walk out of our will. And there could be no such way except a command like this. Out of our own will...
Narnia's first quoted passage spoke very strongly to me from the first time I read it and it was a great answer. The concept that free obedience was the purpose behind freewill is a beautiful one, rooted in love, and one of the most romantic notions I have yet seen. This passage, more than any other, made me feel the sense of God as Suitor and Church, that is "us", as bride, even though it doesn't address that at all.
There's such dramatic build-up around the question "why would God make an arbitrary law?" (they are discussing the parallel, in this new Eden, to "don't eat the fruit") that giving away the final answer almost qualifies as a spoiler...
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I don't want to get in the habit of directing thread content in general, but I've gotten a few requests on this thread specifically. Without commenting specifically on the propriety of any posts in this thread, or on the idea of topic drift in general, I simply ask at this time that any conversation on topics unrelated to the original post be relegated to another thread, be it new or revived.
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: Someone commented that the responsibility of those who do God's will is to make the attempt - honestly and with full effort - and that no moral blame attaches for success or failure.
This has always been very comforting to me. Although I doubt I actually do give full effort whenever I should, this is something I can control (with God's help, of course). The idea could be taken too far and used to excuse inadequate attempts, but I think all moral principles can be used to justify immoral actions in some way or another.
In my example with the perfect platoon leader, I noted that some of the tasks might be impossible. I recall something I got in an e-mail once about God telling someone to go try to move a giant boulder. After years of this, day in day out struggle, the boulder hadn't budged an inch and our hero, frustrated beyond tolerance, lashed out at God, "why did you give me a task you knew I couldn't do?" And God answered something to the effect of "look how strong your arms have gotten."
I am also reminded of Theoden's words "No... we cannot win... but we will fight!"
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