quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: SPOILERS!!!
The fourth time she died, she staked herself for the sake of her son. Who ended up being just as evil as she ever was, even though he was human and had a soul and all.
I don't think Connor was evil. His actions were, but he himself was seriously damaged. In the Angel finale, you get to see him more as he would have been with a better history.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Being damaged doesn't keep you from being evil.
And he was.
He was a torturer and a murderer.
But then, Wesley was evil too. He was just evil on the side of the good guys.
But yes, it is true that if things were different and Connor were a different person, he would be a different person.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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So, the first two seasons of Buffy are on hulu.com (my favorite website of the last 6 months). I finished Burn Notice and decided to check it out.
I have to say that, after finishing the first two seasons, I really don't like it all that much. I mean, it's not bad. I did watch every episode. But mainly because I <3 Joss and I kept waiting for it to get good. Other than the last two eps of season 2, I vastly preferred the Kristy Swanson movie-Buffy to the SMG TV-Buffy. Sacrilege, I know!
But so far it's been mostly 'meh'. Does it get better? Does it get really good, like life-changingly so?
It's definitely no Firefly thus far.
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One way in which the show is definitely better than the movie is Angel. Now that's a genius character.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Yes, I think Buffy doesn't get really good till season 3-4, and then seasons 5, 6 & 7 (really, when Spike features more - I love the Buffy Spike dynamic) are my favourites. I like re-watching seasons 1 and 2 now, but I started from season 3 and I think that's what got me hooked.
Seasons 1 & 2 are a bit melodramatic, bit high-school and a bit whiny sometimes. I think.
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I finished season 7 last week. I bought the Chosen Collection during the sale on Amazon so I pretty much went through the entire series in about alittle over a month. Much sleep was lost and I'm sort of in Buffy withdrawls.
The withdrawls should have been worse but since seasons 6 and 7 really didn't hold my attention and I had to force myself to finish, I sort of weaned myself of it in a way.
I cried like crazy during the series finale for one very justifiable reason and also because it was just so very bad. I wanted to go back and watch the first three seasons again just to remind myself why I watched this show. Thank goodness for James as Spike or I might not have stuck it out.
I think one of my big issues with the last two seasons is that I lost alot of sympathy for the major leaders who are supposed to be the anchor for the show. Most of them behaved in ways that I found difficult to forgive and I really just stopped caring about them in favor of some of the more promising secondary cast members.
JT, is there anything you don't like about the show in particular. I think the humor and the strength of the character writing and casting make Firefly and Buffy very similar. Is it the "creature of the week" style because that does lessen up majorly (even though I was fond of it and the ways Joss could sort of play around with the "after school specials" type issues.)
I will probably be started Angel soon but I'm not too excited. I remember watching it when it first aired but never got past the first season. I am SUPER THRILLED to see Cordelia again but Angel always sort of bugged me on his own. With Buffy he was great, but separate I just didn't care about him much.
I would say it has some AMAZING moments of sheer brilliance: Hush, Once More with Feeling, The Body, etc. If you don't cry like a baby during "The Body" then you just don't have a soul.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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El JT de Spang: I only really watched Buffy for a couple seasons. However, Angel as a show really connected with me in a way that Buffy didn't and thus I own the latter while only having a passing familiarity with the former.
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Being damaged doesn't keep you from being evil.
And he was.
He was a torturer and a murderer.
But then, Wesley was evil too. He was just evil on the side of the good guys. ...
I don't know if the good/evil classification scheme is really one thats all that applicable to the world of Angel. The show spends quite a bit of its time presenting characters that are normally strictly good or bad in an ambiguous light. Thats why you have demons co-existing with humans, decidedly non-heroic vampire hunters, and so forth.
Indeed, people with rather deterministic moral systems such as Kate, Gunn's former crew, and Lorne's people in Pylia are presented rather unsympathetically.
In fact, if Wesley is guilty of being evil on the side of the good guys, arguably both of Angel and Lorne would fit the same category by the end of the last episode. (Not to mention Spike or Illyria who are unabashedly so)
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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Very recently I decided to give Buffy a try, and I have burned right through the first 2 season's like there was no tomorrow! I thought season 2 was great, and I'm glad there are 5 more to go, and Angel as well... (It helps that the early season's are like $15 at walmart right now)
At first it was kinda corny, but it got better, or maybe started to grow on me.
I was already a rabid Firefly fan, but hadn't tasted Joss' earlier flavors.
Posts: 369 | Registered: Apr 2007
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My Walmart doesn't have any Buffy but season 1, ick.
I really don't like the first season, the second has good and bad moments. Three and four are fun, but my favorites are five and six. Spike! He's not quite your type, JT, but he's interesting and pretty.
Oh and this is in response to something three years ago but, Liam wasn't Angel's real name, it was William.
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I remember them saying somewhere that it was William. I know he was called Liam, but that's the same as Alexander being called Xander.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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I suspect the early years of Buffy are more poignant the nearer you are to high school. If you can barely remember high school and most of those memories are good, then the metaphor isn't really working.
My favorite season of Buffy is the fifth, with a few episodes from the other seasons (Fool for Love, Hush, Once More With Feeling) right up there.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I watched all of Buffy about half a year ago. The first season is not good. The villain is a joke and they don't take themselves seriously. In the first episode, their (Willow and Zander's) best friend dies and they don't seem to care that much. The whole thing with the little boy was just plain stupid. The best part of season 2 was when Spike came in and killed him, thus proclaiming to the world (IMO), that the writers had figured out that nobody liked that bad guy and that we all thought it was pretty much a joke.
Not that season 2 was awesome or anything. Season 3 was probably the best. Season 5 was almost good, but I think they missed a bit of potential.
I really thought the show should haev ended with season 5.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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The season three villian was definitely the best.
I like season six very much, but I think it belongs to a different show. A sadder, harder, riskier, despairing, not-as-consistent show.
"If high school is hell, then growing up is the ninth circle and there is no end." is the best description I've heard of season six.
Season seven completely blows. I blame Firefly. I love Firefly, but seeing what happened to Buffy when Joss stopped caring, I wish he'd waited a couple years to start it.
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Season 7 seemed to be their way of saying to die-hard fans who brought it back after Buffy DIED in season 5 that THIS IS IT!!
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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If the message was "If it stays around, it will suck because Joss doesn't care anymore.", then: message recieved. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Shanna: Totally glad someone bumped this thread.
I finished season 7 last week. I bought the Chosen Collection during the sale on Amazon so I pretty much went through the entire series in about alittle over a month.
. . .
I will probably be started Angel soon but I'm not too excited.
I also just recently finished Buffy (last month) and bought it on the Amazon sale, and have just finished the first season of Angel (also purchased during one of those awesome Amazon sales).
Angel has been alright so far. The characters (Cordellia, Angel, Wesley) are more developed and more interesting, but not nearly as interesting as Buffy/Willow/Giles/Spike etc. I'm hoping it gets better in the next seaoson, but don't have really high hopes.
However, there have been some pretty good moments (at least ones that I enjoyed watching) in the first season of Angel. Now, given, they were the episodes in which appearances were made by Buffy, Oz, Spike, and Faith.
Posts: 1711 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I have to admit I don't really like Angel the Series. I own the first couple of seasons and plowed through them, but I didn't finish and I have never wanted to rewatch any of them.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I watched Angel first, and loved it. I own all 5 seasons and re-watch favorite episodes/story arcs regularly. I started watching BTVS to learn more about Angel's backstory, but stopped watching after the 2nd season because of all the teen angst and "who's kissing whom this week". Also, Sarah Michelle Gellar drove me crazy at first. One of my favorite scenes in the 1st season of Angel is when Angel tells her off after the incident with Faith. I'd also heard that the 4th season was really weird with the whole Army group story line.
I finished watching seasons 3-7 because my daughter wanted to. I'm glad I did. Once the "Scoobies" got out of high school, I enjoyed the show a LOT more. Except for Dawn. I never liked Dawn. Not just her supernatural origins, but she never rang true to me as a teenaged girl.
Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Christine: The whole thing with the little boy was just plain stupid. The best part of season 2 was when Spike came in and killed him, thus proclaiming to the world (IMO), that the writers had figured out that nobody liked that bad guy and that we all thought it was pretty much a joke.
Well, not quite. It was more the actor playing the Anointed One was starting to grow again, thus could not convincingly portray an ageless being.
Not that I minded! Spike and Dru were wonderful.
Angel becoming Angelus...that I had problems with, even though he was a great villain. It my first acquaintances with Joss' aversion to his characters having happy, fulfilling relationships. Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Kat, I think there are a couple decent episodes in Season 7. Despite annoying firefly crossover, stupid teenage artist girl, and lack of Xander, I really like Conversations with Dead People. The last five minutes or so of Beneath You are good. I like Sleeper, too. But after the potentials and Caleb show up, it sucks.
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