posted
I know, I'm 17, just a silly teenager. But I'm a lot mroe mature about things like dating than other people my age, and I have a serious problem.
After some long, serious conversations with my boyfriend of a year and a half(total- we've dated twice, this time for 6 months.), I've found out a lot of things that I hadn't previously known. 1. He only started dating me because he wanted to be friends, and he didn't know any other way to approach it(I asked him out first). 2. He believes that kissing should be reserved for marriage- ANY kind of kiss. He believes that in reserving it for so long, it's mroe special in the end. Now, I agree with him on this(more on that later)- but we've already kissed. 3. He says he loves me- and I know I love him- but he doesn't know "what kind of love" it is. He says that since we've agreed not to kiss anymore(going along with his beliefs), that we're nothing more than friends with a title, that there is no difference. 4. He believes that the typical high school dating relationship is wrong, that courting is the only way to go. I agree with him- we're both looking for something real, something that will last, that doesn't have as much of a physical aspect as it does emotional. The difference- he won't court until after college, when he starts thinking about marriage. I will think of it now, but I won't get married until after college.
Now, a lot of these points are things I agree with him on. The only question I have is- If he won't kiss someone until he's married, and that makes he and whomever he's with nothing more than friends, then is he planning on marrying a friend? So right now, we've agreed to keep the "boyfriend/girlfriend" title, but no kissing, nothing more than holding hands. I'm fine with that. And we both think it will work for now. He admits that there were a lot of times when he felt he truly loved me(he does little romantic things every once in a while that show that), but he says that most of the time it's not like that. I would die for this boy... and I don't know what to do now. I would rather remain "friends with a title" to help prevent myself from looking for someone else who would give me just the physical aspect- I made that mistake after the first time my boyfriend and I broke up, and I could have that guy arrested if I wanted. But my boyfriend... I could honestly see myself marrying him 6 years from now. I'd rather keep the title in order to stay away from everyone else- and reserve myself for when he's ready- than open myself to the temptation of having another boyfriend like my other ex, the jerk that won't show any emotion and shows only physical lust. Am I right? WHat do I do?
Posts: 1591 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I mean -- your spouse has to be your best friend first.
And if proving that you can stand to get along and be with a person all the time without sex is a way to see if it can last, then I understand his thinking.
Many young relationships these days are based on sexual attraction and nothing else. He seems to be wanting to see if it will work the other way around.
It probably has nothing to do with you - he's just really young and he's not ready. He won't become ready while y'all remain in limbo, though, so the only way to eventually be with him is to not be with him now.
I'm sorry - that sucks. It's hard to love someone who isn't ready for it. I agree with him that a relationship where you don't kiss at all is just friends with a title. You can be friends without the title, and that'll give him an opportunity to grow a little.
I just don't think y'all want the same things right now, and it doesn't seem like that is going to change.
On an entirely cynical note, since y'all have kissed before, if he wanted to keep kissing you, then he would be.
In the self-interest scale - although you love him and so are probably not really focused on that - it will suck your soul to give yourself to someone who doesn't love you back. You so deserve better than that. Your options are not limited to groping or dismissal - there is better for you. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I mean, is he planning on marrying someone he's never dated, who is a friend and nothing more? We both promised to save our virginity until marriage- that's part of being a Christian, at least for us(did I mention his beliefs about marriage and courting are the result of his youth group's beliefs, not the beliefs of his main church? He goes to youth group with a friend- not at his main church). It's not the going without the physical thing I worry about. The thing I want most is that "title", as he calls it, to prevent me from going somewhere to find a physical thing, as I know I would be tempted to do. He doesn't really want the title, he doesn't see the point. And I just don't know what to do now. Any advice?
Posts: 1591 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I don't mean to talk down to you or minimize your level of maturity... but there are two things that jump immediately to mind
most importantly: let yourself have some fun... not suggesting that you necessarily chuck the no-kissing rule or whatever, but there's nothing wrong with going out and enjoying yourself a little while not having a "title"... whether with "him" or someone else
less so, but still awfully important: you will almost certainly change drastically over the next 5 years of your life and then again over the following 5 years, and chances are, so will everyone you know now. Be concious of this when making choices.
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posted
See, he tells me he loves me every day. And is is romantic, most of the time. That's why I tell him there is a difference in being friends and dating- that the love between friends is different.
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posted
I won't go past a kiss for religious reasons- Jim-Me... today's plan of "having fun" is something I promised to Christ I'd never do.
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quote: The thing I want most is that "title", as he calls it, to prevent me from going somewhere to find a physical thing, as I know I would be tempted to do.
Um....Seriously, this is your problem. If you need a crutch that badly to avoid doing what you want to do, maybe you should ask why you want so badly to do something you don't want to do. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:The thing I want most is that "title", as he calls it, to prevent me from going somewhere to find a physical thing, as I know I would be tempted to do.
You can be the person you want to be - you don't need something outside to prevent you from doing something if you don't want to do it.
quote:He doesn't really want the title, he doesn't see the point.
Sweetie, he is seriously not interested. You mentioned that he started this originally because he wanted to be friends and didn't know how to keep it from being romantic. I think this is as close as you're going to get a straightforward statement of what he wants. Sadly, we can't change someone's mind once they've decided they don't want a relationship.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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My own son has also adopted these same high standards (not at my instruction, he chose them for himself).
I realize there is a big push within the conservative Christian movement at this time to "re-think" traditional dating practices. What she is saying echoes many current books along these lines.
I think when he began dating her, he was unsure of how to proceed (thus the fact that he has kissed her before) but now he feels comfortable enough with her to really relay his values and feelings about it. He's matured a little and isn't afraid to make a stand.
What is wrong with that? Farmgirl
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posted
Frankly, based on what you've said, I suspect that going somewhere to find a "physical thing" would in fact be an enormously positive experience for you.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Human beings want sex. It's wired into our bones. But I won't go there because of the promises I've made to God.
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posted
No- I had that "physical thing" once before. I made out with my other ex once, and it was the worst experience of my life, that's why I promised never to do it again. I still feel guilty about that- and it was a year and a half ago.
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posted
Human beings also want respect and a happy life. You can trust yourself - you don't need a crutch.
Farmgirl: I'm all for being friends first, but this halfway-romantic/not-really thing is definitely soul-crushing. It's all the committment without the intimacy (I'm not talking physical), and I don't think that's a good idea.
quote:No- I had that "physical thing" once before. I made out with my other ex once, and it was the worst experience of my life, that's why I promised never to do it again. I still feel guilty about that- and it was a year and a half ago.
*hugs* You don't have to do the same thing again - you're a different person now. What you say about your limits stands - anyone who doesn't respect that you don't want to date anyway. You are so much wiser now - you can trust yourself. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
It sounds to me like you're trying to use your relationship with him as a crutch. If you want "the physical thing" than you will not be happy being his girlfriend (in the way he wants it to be). If you don't want a physical relationship (which you seem to indicate in your last post) that needs to be a decision that you make for yourself and stick to it. It is possible to just be his friend and not go seeking seeking a physical relationship. Don't rely on some "title" to make your decision for you. That's not fair to either of you.
(Edit: my post took way too long and should be up where Jim-Me posted)
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posted
here's the thing- it started as him wanting a friend, but since then, it's developed into something more. He admits that now, we're more than just close friends. And he loves me- that much I know.
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posted
You're going to change a lot in the coming six years. So will he. It's hard to imagine it now, but looking back in a few years you'll be amazed at how much you've grown as a person.
I'd suggest you two stay friends, and keep open the possibility of a relationship in the future.
On a side note, while I think it's a good idea to not make sexual attraction the key feature of a relationship, being husband and wife means sharing a connection in mind, body, and soul. You need to find each other physically attractive, and a bit of chemistry is a good idea as well. From what you've written it doesn't sound like he feels this way towards you. That could change in the future, of course, but right now it might be a good idea to downgrade the relationship to "just good friends."
Posts: 2409 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I've tried not getting into the physical thing before, but I couldn't. I need help not to. That's where my boyfriend has been the biggest help in my life- keeping me in check. Sort of like an "accountability partner", if anyone else here knows of those.
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posted
I think that at 17, kissing someone you're dating is fairly important to determining whether there are any sparks between you.
Now when I say kissing, I don't mean sex. I mean kissing. Because you're friends and you hold hands doesn't make you boyfriend/girlfriend as far as I'm concerned. I love a lot of my friends, male and female, in the sense that I think they're great people, I want the best for them, and I miss them when they're not around. I hug the girls, and I think they're all attractive, but I'm not interested in dating them.
I know that because I've actually dated enough to know what qualities/opinions are important enough to me to look for in another.
It sounds to me like this guy isn't sure exactly how he feels about you, romantically, so he's being non-committal, setting a date far distant to decide (after college), and keeping you as a "backup" for as long as you let him.
He doesn't know what he wants, but he's pretty sure you're not it. But he cares about you and knows you care about him, so he doesn't know how to break it to you.
I don't mean to seem harsh, but this is how I see it.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tinros: I won't go past a kiss for religious reasons- Jim-Me... today's plan of "having fun" is something I promised to Christ I'd never do.
that's not what I meant by having fun, which is why I said you didn't need to chuck the no-kissing rule. Go out and enjoy yourself. Seriously. Without being someone's "girl". It will do you good. And you will find, as was mentioned earlier, that you don't have an either or choice between physical affection and being bonded to someone exclusively.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Go out and enjoy yourself. Seriously. Without being someone's "girl".
I don't agree with this. If you think it would make you feel bad about yourself, then it will. Don't do anything physically that you have told yourself you are not going to do, no matter who tells you it will do you good. Feeling bad about yourself doesn't do anyone any good.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I can't help but wonder about his sexuality.
We have stereotypes that most males have sex on the brain ALL THE TIME, and perhaps the majority tend in that direction... but there are people who are naturally asexual to one degree or another. It may be that he is more attracted to males than females, but wants to pursue marriage and family because of his beliefs, so this is a "comfortable" thing for him right now.
He may not feel the tug of physical desire towards you. At all.
So what you need to ask yourself is, could you be married to a man who did not desire you? I suspect there are a lot of women who would think they are willing, who years into the relationship will feel unsatisfied and cheated. Don't short-change your future self.
And on the subject of maturity, if *both* of you are mature, you should be able to comfortably discuss these topics with time.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Listen- most of you are telling me to get into the physical thing. NO NO NO. I WILL NOT, simply because of my faith. It disgusts me when I see my friends make out, and I DON'T WANT THAT in my soul. My body will always want that sort of thing, but I WILL NOT GO THERE. let me make that very clear, right now. As for not having a physical attraction between us- there you're wrong. He broke a promise to himself in kissing me. That makes every time he's kissed me more special than anyone could ever imagine. He tells me I'm beautiful, and he's told me that when he wants it to go further, it will be with me. there is a physical attraction- but in my mind, keeping it in check is more important than letting it run wild.
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quote: I made out with my other ex once, and it was the worst experience of my life
I respect your beliefs, and I don't encourage anyone (short of the girls I like) to go around making out with everyone in sight. But, there's no religion that I know of that forbids or even looks that harshly on a 17 year old kissing someone in the interest of pursuing a relationship. In Jesus' time, a woman your age who was unmarried was an aberration.
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posted
Personally, I think you should ditch having a boyfriend until you're ready to get married. By that I mean, don't get distracted with what can't go anywhere anyway. You've got lots of things to do first, so even if you decided you were mentally ready for marriage, you have made a decision to wait til after college. I say stick with that and try not to get too distracted.
The whole love thing is great, and I don't want to dissuade you from it at all, I just want you to realize that it is very distracting, and can keep you from achieving the goals you've set out for yourself. I think it's possible that your boyfriend realizes that and is trying very hard not to let it get out of hand. You can help him and yourself by backing off, focusing on what you're really trying to acheive right now, and stay friends. Be close, do stuff together, but bear at the top of your mind that the real goal right now is to go to college, get an education, maybe start a career, THEN look at marriage.
I wish you could get to know Hobbes and Annie. They're absolutely the best at this I've ever seen.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:But I'm a lot mroe mature about things like dating than other people my age
So are 85% of other people your age, which is to say, that probably isn't true. I'll say this with as much respect as I can, you don't come across as remarkably mature about dating. There's nothing wrong with this; most teenagers like to think that they're more mature than they are, especially when they're "in love". If you're lucky, you'll be able to look back at yourself during this time and laugh at how naive and self-involved you were. I know I did.
My adivce, this guy isn't all that into you and he's got some issues about dating and sex to work through. Drop the title and see other guys, but don't throw yourself into the physical side of things. Set your limits and stick to them. That way, you don't need to worry so much about another "jerk that won't show any emotion and shows only physical lust". Believe that you deserve better and hold out for it. Also, don't date guys much older than you.
You'll (likely) be going to college soon. You'll (likely) be suprised at how much differently you see the world after a few months there and the same is probably true for the guy you're talking about. Now doesn't sound like the time for you to make any life long commitments. Give it time and don't throw yourself into anything.
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posted
If you say he is attracted to you, I believe you. There was no information in your first post that led me to believe he felt physical attraction for you. And, hey, it happens.
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posted
I am definitely not telling you to go and kiss other people. In fact, I think it is a really bad idea, and it sounds like it would be counterproductive to finding the kind of relationship you want.
I just think that you don't need a crutch to stop yourself from being somewhere physically. If you can restrain yourself out of loyalty to him, then you can restrain yourself out of loyalty to your principles. That's a better idea, anyway. That you will always have with you.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Tinros: No- I had that "physical thing" once before. I made out with my other ex once, and it was the worst experience of my life...I still feel guilty about that- and it was a year and a half ago.
Tinros, speaking as someone who has LOADS of experience on this particular subject, I am here to tell you that a major key to getting past the "need" for physical love is to quit feeling guilty about it.
The major point of being Christian is remembering that you are loved as you are, mistakes, desires, and all. As one Christian to another, I want to suggest to you that if your belief is making you hate yourself for what you've done, you are emphasizing the wrong parts of it.
I will also go so far as to suggest, that if you are feeling this guilty over a make out session as a teenager, that you should probably talk to a licensed counselor about it.
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posted
Or, stick to her principles and not do it again. Part of repenting is letting it go, but the other part is not repeating the same mistake. She doesn't want to do it - stop encouraging her to.
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quote:Listen- most of you are telling me to get into the physical thing.
Um, no. As far as I can see, only Tom has suggested that. Everyone else who is telling you to have fun has been very specific that you can have fun without giving up the boundaries you’ve set. You’re the one who seems to be assuming that “have fun” = “make out.”
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Go out and enjoy yourself. Seriously. Without being someone's "girl".
I don't agree with this. If you think it would make you feel bad about yourself, then it will. Don't do anything physically that you have told yourself you are not going to do, no matter who tells you it will do you good. Feeling bad about yourself doesn't do anyone any good.
Can someone please tell me why everyone (edit: except dkw... thanks Dana!) is ignoring the part where I said I wasn't talking about sexual involvement when I said "go out and have fun"?
I mean play some mini golf or something for crying out loud!
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tinros: He broke a promise to himself in kissing me. That makes every time he's kissed me more special than anyone could ever imagine.
Please think about what you're saying here.
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quote: It disgusts me when I see my friends make out
This is a problem. There's a huge difference between choosing not to do something (especially something as fundamnetal and psychologically tricksy as physical intimacy) and being so wrapped up about it that you get disgusted when you see other people kiss. There's nothing dirty about sex, especially when it's just kissing. You can choose to not do it, which is fine, but finding it disgusting isn't a healthy attitude.
You've had a bad experience with sex. It sounds like this may be coloring your perception at least as much as you promise to God.
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posted
Jeni--yeah. We actually heard it straight from her when we met up with her in Yellowstone. So we got a pretty good understanding of the situation.
Tinros, I went against my principles about physical intimacy. It was really hard to get over because I felt for a long time that I wasn't strong enough to hold to my principles. It took time and healing.
It helped that I had a nice "safe" boyfriend after that, one who if I told him where the line was, he wouldn't try to push me. I appreciated him so much. I didn't want to pursue anything long term, but he helped heal me, helped prepare me for my future husband (the next guy I dated.)
You can forgive yourself those things. And part of forgiving yourself is realizing that you do have the strength to hold to your principles. Of course, choosing the right sorts of guys to date is very important. Some guys will respect your boundaries, others will try to push you again and again. That is the sort of situation all of us need to stay away from. It is self-defeating, and waits for a moment of weakness to get us to slip. We can't be strong *all* the time, so we need to know how to avoid temptation.
So this guy is one of the non-pushers. He is not the only one out there. Trust yourself enough to find the other non-pushers who won't make you wonder about where you stand with them.
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posted
My maturity is something you'll have to trust me on, unless you get to know me, and THEN you can judge for yourself. I've made a lot of decisions regarding things like dating that my friends think I'm insane about. I promised virginity until marriage to God when I was in 6th grade, and most of my friends stopped being my friends because they thought it was wrong to NOT sleep with someone before you marry them.
I gradutate on May 20, 2006. After that, Matt(my boyfriend) will be going to Sinclair, and I will be going to Ohio State. I'm afraid, above all, that I won't see him anymore. I know, we can write, email, phone calls, whatever, but keep in mind- Ohio State is literally a small city. my sister goes there, and she just finished her freshman year. She has friends that GO TO THE SAME SCHOOL that she lost contact with after a few months.
I set my limits. But when I'm tempted, I tend to break them. That's why Matt has been such a blessing in my life- he's kept me from breaking my limit.
As for marrying after college- here's another thing I forgot to mention. I won't marry anyone until I've dated them for at least 2 years, and I'll only date someone I've known for a LONG time. I really don't want to wait til I'm 40 to get married. really. I have a couple friends who say they are "engaged to be engaged"- they won't marry or get engaged til after college, but until then, they will remain in love, and they will stay true to each other. I don't want to get with someone else and feel like I'm cheating matt out of something that's rightfully his.
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posted
For what it's worth, Jim, I both understand what you actually meant and agree with it. I think it was quite clear that you were not suggesting she change her personal rules if she's that set on them.
Also,
quote:I will also go so far as to suggest, that if you are feeling this guilty over a make out session as a teenager, that you should probably talk to a licensed counselor about it.
I completely agree with this.
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quote:For what it's worth, Jim, I both understand what you actually meant and agree with it. I think it was quite clear that you were not suggesting she change her personal rules if she's that set on them.
quote:Listen- most of you are telling me to get into the physical thing. NO NO NO. I WILL NOT, simply because of my faith. It disgusts me when I see my friends make out, and I DON'T WANT THAT in my soul. My body will always want that sort of thing, but I WILL NOT GO THERE. let me make that very clear, right now.
As dkw said, the only person to suggest this so far is Tom. One person is hardly everyone. Your feelings in this post are what should stop you from having a physical relationship with someone. You've made a decision about what you do and don't. That is awesome! Don't doubt yourself by claiming you need to be someone's girlfriend to maintain your strength of will. As for your past experience, we all make mistakes. You have learned that is not what you want to do. Great! Don't dwell on your guilt. Dwell on your conviction that that is not what you want for yourself. Then go out and find friends. Have fun with your friends. And yes, there is fun aside from sex and making out.
If you are afraid of temptation arising, always go out with groups of friends, don't limit yourself to spending too much time with any one person, etc. - recognize what situations may lead to temptation and avoid them.
quote:feel like I'm cheating matt out of something that's rightfully his
There's no committment until there is a committment. In my own opinion, you're not really engaged until you have a ring (if you plan on getting a ring) and, most importantly, a date. Until then, it's an idea. A nice idea, but nothing binding. He doesn't have a right to anything yet.
I know - it's not very romantic. On the upside, it avoids that queasy limbo state.
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posted
When I say disgusts, I mean I can't stand to see me friends with their hands up each others shirts/pants/wherever. That's private, reserve it. But they're the ones who will tell me that that's what I should be doing. It makes me sick that other people have such disregard for my principals as to encourage me to do things i blatently refuse to do.
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If you're all assuming that I don't get out with my friends and have fun, you're wrong. My friends and I have the times of our lives going to bookstores and playing video games at the mall arcade. We do that every week. I have fun without Matt sometimes. I do. I just have more fun WITH him.
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If they encourage you to do things you don't want to, find new friends. If they can't manage to restrain themselve in your presence when you've told them that you're uncomfortable with them doing stuff like that around you, maybe you shouldn't spend as much time with them. Hey, as much as my husband and I like groping each other, we do manage not to do it when we're around other people. It's not that hard to have a little self-restraint.
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