posted
We live in a society where the pace of technological advance is constantly increasing. One of the interesting things about this is that we have a quite possibly historically unprecedented situation where children are teaching their parents (and other adult authority figures) important skills, such as how to actually use a computer. I have to wonder what this is going to do with how people subconsciously view authority.
Much of adult authority over children derives from the fact that adults know much better how things work. I know one of the things that saved me from a lot of the negative effects of an American education was my realization pretty early on that I was smarter than many of my teachers. This kind of destroyed my perception of their authority over me. I think it'll be interesting to see if there are any shifts as this situation is realized across on a much wider level.
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posted
I don't really agree with what you've said. I've almost always been more knowledgable than my parents in regards to computers, and I still respected them as authority figures. At times, I've had teachers that I knew more than (my Calculus BC teacher in high school admitted as much to myself and a few others), and yet I still respected their authority. I have an argument of sorts to offer, but I'm having a hard time wording it. I don't think authority comes from being smarter/more knowledgable than someone. I think authority comes out of position and respect for said position, and that in turn comes from the way you were raised.
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posted
I think television shows geared toward children that portray children as clever and adults as stupid and autocratic goes a lot further toward destroying respect for authority than children teaching adults.
Kids know lots of things adults don't. My son knows far more about insects than I ever will. It's his interest, so he remembers what he learns about it. His superiority in knowledge doesn't diminish my authority over him, except when it comes to issues that involve insects. Then I defer to his greater qualifications. If I didn't defer, and pretended to be the world's greatest authority on insects, it would not be the fact that he knows more than I do that would kill my authority -- I will have done it to myself by pretending authority I clearly didn't actually have.
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posted
There are many ways to recognize authority, so it stands to reason that there are many ways to question or reject it.
I'm analytical. I probably figured that authority made sense because grownups knew more than I did. So the very first time an adult (parent or teacher) was wrong when I was right, that went right out the window.
Some kids learn that authority's basis is that grownups are bigger. Or that they can take things away. Or that there is no reason; it's just one of life's little mysteries.
In addition to the idea that grownups knew more, which no longer worked for me, I had the thing about getting punished. That worked as well, but with that one, the real rule is "don't get caught".
But that's when you're a kid. When you get older, you look at authority in a whole new way (hopefully).
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posted
Yeah, I didn't do a good job of making my point either. It's a random thought that I figure I'd put out there.
I think there's a potentially big difference introduced when children are teaching important things to their parents and even telling them no. I don't think that this difference is necessarily conscious though.
As for the teacher thing, when I realized that I was smarter than my teachers, I no longer thought that I needed to learn the subject by listening to them. Instead, I dove into myself and came up with different (and for me, superior) ways of doing it. They lost their authority to teach me because I was better at it than they were.
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posted
jeni, But there's a difference between a hobby like insects and skills vital to living and working in today's society, like computers.
I think that the kids being shown as smarter on TV doesn't really have he same effect because it's not real. That is, kids know, even if they won't admit it, that they don't know better than their oafish parents like it's shown on TV. There's reality testing. In the situation I'm talking about, the kids are given direct proof that they know a lot more about a vital skill than their parents.
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posted
Squick, the insect thing was just an example. Thing is, if he was a better cook than me, I'd defer to his suggestions or instruction while we were cooking. It's just not that big a deal. I'm still the one who says when it's bed-time.
I guess my point is that disrespect for authority comes from demonstrations of abuse of power. That is to say, that a teacher has power over his students. If he insists that he is the authority on a subject and happens to be wrong, he only acheives respect by borrowing power from his position as teacher, not because he actually knows anything. Whereas his authority on a subject is strenthened if he is willing to be teachable by his students. He doesn't need to borrow power to prop up an untruth. His respect as a teacher (a teller of truth) is confirmed.
That's what I meant.
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posted
Kids might know more than their parents in some things, sure. Someone's teenage son or daughter sits down to teach them how to use the computer. I don't think that disrupts the balance of power in a stable home. Parents have established their authority throughout the lives of their children. It's the parent's prerogative to sit down with the kid and let him or her teach them all about Windows; the kid doesn't suddenly run the house, any more than the Calculus genius taking the reins of the class because she knows more than the teacher.
Kids living in their parents home are subject to the authority of their parents, who keep a roof over their heads and put food on the table. Parents, unless they are derelict in their duties, hold the reins of authority in the home and delegate that authority only as they see fit.
I remember quite well thinking, at age 15 or 16, that I knew everything. But it was just me coming to terms with my limited scope of knowledge. Real authority comes with experience, greater responsibility, and the gradual acceptance that you do not in fact know everything (but are willing to learn). Parents with kids who know more than they do about something are wise to learn what their kids have to teach them, and therefore give their kids the valuable experience of sharing their knowledge.
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posted
I seem to remember Dad having a little sign on the fridge that said something along the lines of "Teenagers: Leave home now, while you still know everything!"
Whether kids actually know more than their parents or not, they're probably going to go through a phase where they think they do. Their perception has more affect on their respect for authority than the reality of the situation, I would think.
posted
A teenagers surety is born out of their great insecurity. They think they know so much specifically because they know deep down that they don't know so much.
There's a big difference between conscious and sub-conscious thoughts. I'm expecting that if there is something to what I'm saying, it will manifest itself more on the sub-conscious level.
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posted
Adults are authorities on life experience, not on computers. Hence, I don't think being an expert on computers will lead a child to lose his respect for the authority of adults around him. Only having many more life experiences would cause that, I think.
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posted
I'm not sure I ever really considered my parents "authority figures," but then, that term is one with almost exclusively negative connotations in my mind. An authority figure is someone who has the shell of power without the heart of respect.
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If I'm a good authority figure, my children will learn that I can be trusted to guide them while they are young. And if I continue to be a good authority figure, they will continue to trust me when they become teenagers.
Putting my children to bed last night, I relearned the fact that how I parent today will affect how much my children will trust me when they become teenagers.
Authority = trust
Authority != power to discipline
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
That's also Python! And since I'm only two weeks into my programming course, that's about the extent of my computer knowledge! Posts: 1547 | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:If I didn't defer, and pretended to be the world's greatest authority on insects, it would not be the fact that he knows more than I do that would kill my authority -- I will have done it to myself by pretending authority I clearly didn't actually have.
Yet again, I completely agree with jeniwren.
My son, John, is extraordinarily bright and he is often exposed to people who are 20 years or more older than he is, and are less interested in current affairs and history than he is. When he makes a statement or challenges their conclusions, some take it as disrespectful others are charmed.
Because John is only 9, it is very hard for him to understand the nuances of allowing adults a respectful emotional distance. When he challenges someone's conclusion, he does so honestly, with no ulterior motive or trick questions. Because he comes right out and says, "I think you're wrong," some people are offended; others are engaged and explain their opinions.
I don't believe that John's intelligence will cause him to be disdainful of authority, but I worry that he will not step lightly enough on the toes of those who would believe that they are his superiors. He has a tremendous self-image, so I doubt that he will feel the need to be disdainful, but he defintely won't completely trust someone who has proven that their judgement is flawed.
In truth, I believe a greater cause for today's kids being disdainful of authority is the example set by their parents. If the parents undermine one another's authority, ridicule the kids' teachers, evade taxes or belittle the job of the police, the kids will learn to behave the same way.
In short, I think that respect begets respect and disdain will foster disdain.
Posts: 2425 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I hate authority. I setup computer labs at school, to only later be banned from all computers in the school.
-10,000 Respect.
I hate it when authority figures are dumb and can't comprehend simple things, or refuse to because a child knows more about it than they do.
However, I also am a good citizen and when I break laws, I deal with people that have authority respectfully, until they prove to me that they no longer deserve that respect.
People wonder why smart kids don't do well in school, and I wonder why we don't have smart teachers that can understand simple underlying principals of respect. If you even imply disrespect to a student, you are tearing down the safe environment people need to have in order to really learn.
This all comes back to my hate of public school, and it makes me wish that my parents could have supported all of us kids through private school where we all would have been given many more opportunities to add tools to our toolbox.
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posted
>>This all comes back to my hate of public school, and it makes me wish that my parents could have supported all of us kids through private school where we all would have been given many more opportunities to add tools to our toolbox.
:snicker: I think that you'll encounter boneheads where ever you happen to go.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Yes, but compared to the school of crap I went to, anything is better.
One less bone-headed teacher or administrator is better in any case.
Students would likely be higher than average as well, so even if the teacher was a bone-head, there would still be some intellectual interaction between students.
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